Raging was over something so infantile and so juvenile,

[MarkDavid]

What did she "rage" about? What was the lengthy texting session about?

The raging was over something so infantile and so juvenile, and is just another in a huge long line of things to fight about:

- Wednesday:  she says I love you at 5:00 p.m., and immediately then follows it up with she is going out for dinner and drinks with a female co-worker; no idea how late she would be out; not said by her per usual - ambiguous; just declared by her; nothing said as far as how long she will be out.  Which is fine.

The game:  am I supposed to sit around and wait for her to come home (to her house; we do NOT live together) so we can text, or should I go do something with my acquaintances?

WELL, the night before Thanksgiving in my City, my old friends do go out to the bars, which she has known.  So:  (1) I say I am going to an acquaintances and then (2) out for a bit.  So, I made my plans as she did not tell me about her plans and we basically were broken up and I'm not going to do nothing just sitting around waiting for her; so, I head to my acquaintance's house - we actually texted while I was at the acquaintance's for "pre-game" before I went out to the bar with my acquaintances and everything was fine.

These then were my sins:

(1) the bar I went to with my friends she incorrectly calls a "college bar"; it's not; there was a band playing; big deal; I actually had 2 beers there and left BECAUSE I went to meet my daughter (more below);I tell now ex GF I am at that bar (the "college bar" - NOT); no response; the texting from her to me stops;

(2) my college daughter came home for Thanksgiving and went out; I left the one bar I was at to go meet MY DAUGHTER, who goes to college out of State.  I texted the now ex-GF/uBPD what i was doing and where I was going; no responses that night; possibly she went to bed/possibly she was mad.  I got home at 1:00 a.m. after being with MY DAUGHTER because MY DAUGHTER got out out late - i.e., I was not "chasing" other women or anything for God's sake, I was with MY DAUGHTER.  I texted the now ex-GF I was home; no response (ok, it was real late, not a problem)

No text from the ex-GF during Thanksgiving Thursday; so I didn't text her. I knew she was acting mad about the prior night.  Mind you, she and I were definitely as of this night not back to "Boyfriend/Girlfriend".

SO FRIDAY:  she texts me and gets into this crap about how if I want to be at 49 "hanging at college bars" and living that lifestyle and being out that late, that is fine, but she is not attracted to that.  I was like I was with my daughter so you definitely do not have the right to enforce "curfew" on me over that.  So round and round on that.

More so, then on Friday we got into how there are things about overall how she speaks to me, acts toward me, and the choices she has made in the relationship that have not made me happy.  So, no conclusion really, but we would talk on Saturday; in fact we talked on Friday night until 12:30 a.m. where then we I "won" the argument by showing that she had no right or place to do what she did about me being out WITH MY DAUGHTER and the Silent Treatment me on Thanksgiving that she went to the "you won" card and "stop hurting me" card  (I'm ALWAYS hurting her, mind you).

Saturday she texts me about how she woke up and is not feeling any better about things, said some snotty things, and declared how she was off to a birthday party of "her best friend" who "she had been neglecting because of me".  She said some awful things about me as it relates to her 15 year old daughter, basically holding her daughter up in front of me as a reason we are not fully together AGAIN, and I had enough.  I could go through the texts of what she exactly said, but does it really matter? 

Of course,  3 hours later, after she left and insults me at a super deep level yet again, she texts me; I didn't respond.  Why?  Because I am just finished with this constant behavior.   She texted me twice yesterday (Sunday) and I did not respond either; the content of the final one was how she always knew I was like this (abandoning) and she was right about me and goodbye.  MIND YOU: again, we work in the same 17 person office, so today (Monday) nothing was said between us, though I was out of the actual office a lot again during the work day.  We saw each other for about 1 second passing, but that was it.  Of note, she could come speak to me at any time, but chooses not to here at the office, though she always would want me to go over by her in the workplace (double standard).

Juvenile?  Perhaps.

That said, though, I really have arrived at the end of my rope. I thought about all of this and the tools and everything else and re-phrasing things to satisfy her over the course of the last week, but I really and truly just don't want to do it any more.  I don't want to kiss her butt constantly over every little thing; which I pretty much have done.  I do have some self-respect, and I am single and NOT a husband to her.  As every article says:  nothing is ever good enough or going to be good enough for her, and I truly have grown exhausted by it, and I'm not doing it any more.  As I said to her in part last Saturday, I'm not being her wh*re any more who she gets to use and push around and use for her emotional needs any more; I'll be replaced quickly I have no doubt, and I have come to terms with it.  I don't want the life that I read a lot of you writing about and I'm not willing to completely change myself just to have her; I'm a "non-BPD" and she is a uBPD, and I have no doubt about it.  Not just over the recent things I have posted about; there is a track record of these behaviors that I could fill up the message board with.  And I'm finished with it.  The next guy will experience the same thing with her, I guarantee it, IF she lets him close enough in; I'm her "trigger" I guess of her BPD; well, I don't want to be her caretaker.

Thanks for listening.  I'm working on myself and trying to be kind to myself, just as FF suggested early last week; and my head has started to clear about everything.

[MarkDavid]

@MarkDavid, ... .(sharing), I came across this a while back, and I benefited from a listen.

YouTube:Ashley Berges
*two videos:
In a relationship with a Borderline?
Are you married to someone with BPD?

v/r Red5

Thank you Red5; I listened to the entirety of Ashley’s In a Relationship with a Borderline; it actually is almost scary to me how much matches what is my situation. It is comforting though again to know it’s not me going insane.

[Skip]

MarkDavid, stepping away from who might have mental health issues for a minute... .

this type of cyclical "dirty fighting" (you're a mess, I don't need you around) from both of you is from both of you - and it is normalized - you accept it, participate in it, and you also believe (in the back of you head) that it will resolve when the other person gives in - which eventually happens or you both run out of fight and put the fight aside.

This is unhealthy - and its not all her.

I do not desire to obtain the necessary tools to deal with this for the rest of my life, and I don't want my kids being exposed further to it.

The tools are for you. If you react to another person the way you are reacting to her, you will have the same problems. I'm not saying that you are the cause of all the problems, but if you take her out of the picture, and replace her, your way of process conflict will plague that relationship, too.

And a last thought - when I say normalized, what I mean is that you fully expect that after this duel, things can heal and you will have the option to go forward with her. This is a dangerous game, because sooner or later, one of you will be done with the other and one of you will be devastated that a fight over a juvenile matter ended it all.

To be clear, I'm not trying to talk you into making up. I'm not trying to talk you into learning tools. I am only saying this to give you a glimpse at a likely future where she is suddenly moves on to another relationship and you are devastated because the last fight did not recycle like all the previous.

You don't sound committed to lose this relationship - you sound more committed to the fight.

[MarkDavid]

MarkDavid, stepping away from who might have mental health issues for a minute... .

this type of cyclical "dirty fighting" (you're a mess, I don't need you around) from both of you is from both of you - and it is normalized - you accept it, participate in it, and you also believe (in the back of you head) that it will resolve when the other person gives in - which eventually happens or you both run out of fight and put the fight aside.

This is unhealthy - and its not all her.

The tools are for you. If you react to another person the way you are reacting to her, you will have the same problems. I'm not saying that you are the cause of all the problems, but if you take her out of the picture, and replace her, your way of process conflict will plague that relationship, too.

And a last thought - when I say normalized, what I mean is that you fully expect that after this duel, things can heal and you will have the option to go forward with her. This is a dangerous game, because sooner or later, one of you will be done with the other and one of you will be devastated that a fight over a juvenile matter ended it all.

To be clear, I'm not trying to talk you into making up. I'm not trying to talk you into learning tools. I am only saying this to give you a glimpse at a likely future where she is suddenly moves on to another relationship and you are devastated because the last fight did not recycle like all the previous.

You don't sound committed to lose this relationship - you sound more committed to the fight.

I understand what you are saying.

That said, first, I can work on my relationship issues on my own and with some space.

Next, she can move on if she so desires. I expect her to; quickly. Clearly I have been lied to repeatedly, and I don’t want that life.

I have not articulated on this board yet the full extent of how low I stooped for her; it’s a bit too painful to articulate it all.

There’s more to life than constantly constantly constantly being tested in a relationship, over every scenario. This was but one of 5,000 scenarios she tested me on. I’m exhausted and had enough. I would appreciate support.

[Skip]

I’m exhausted and had enough. I would appreciate support.

In weighing the pros and cons (Conflicted Board) or in getting out (Break-up Board)?

[MarkDavid]

In weighing the pros and cons (Conflicted Board) or in getting out (Break-up Board)?

In getting out; I’m finished. I could go through 5,000 other examples to persuade any doubters whether or not I’ve gone through “enough”; I am not taking the time to do that; I want more out of my life than this relationship presently provides and what I see would provide.

[formflier]

I could go through 5,000 other examples to persuade any doubters whether or not I’ve gone through “enough”; 

Do you doubt this decision?  Have you gone through enough?

FF

[Skip]

I could go through 5,000 other examples to persuade any doubters whether or not I’ve gone through “enough”

No one is doubting you.    Would you prefer to move this post to the Breakup Board?

[MarkDavid]

No one is doubting you.    Would you prefer to move this post to the Breakup Board?

Yes please and thank you.

[Notwendy]

I don't doubt you-

I think it is important to be supportive of someone's decision to stay or leave- as only that person can know all the details of the relationship and what is the best decision for them.

Personally, I don't see the end of a relationship as the end of personal work. There is a road ahead of you toward healing, recovery, and then - what to do if you seek another relationship in the future. It isn't something to do all at once- that can be overwhelming. Take it one step at a time.

The two of you have been involved in high drama. There is an addiction quality to this. You can have moments of craving for it. Once your anger lessens, it would be normal to grieve. Knowing and understanding this can help. There are members on the break up board who have gone through this. I am currently not in this situation but I wanted to address your situation before you transition to the other board.

I will say a word to keep in mind for later. You did have a part in the drama between the two of you- and working on this part- for YOU, not for her ,and for  you on your own, and possibly with a therapist- will help you in your recovery from this relationship and also prevent you from getting into drama in the future- with someone else. It isn't something you may wish to focus on now, but it is an investment in you- and your future relationships.

An ending can be a new beginning, not necessarily another relationship with someone else, but a chance to be a better you. I wish you the best on your path.

[MarkDavid]

Thank you; that said, the relationship was primarily "run" by her and the delays and excuses I listened to would be more for anybody to stomach, believe me - everybody has their "limits", and the stupid recent "fights" had nothing to do with the larger picture of this failed relationship

[In a bad way]

Thank you; that said, the relationship was primarily "run" by her and the delays and excuses I listened to would be more for anybody to stomach, believe me - everybody has their "limits", and the stupid recent "fights" had nothing to do with the larger picture of this failed relationship

Sorry to hear of what has happened.
You've hit the nail on the head there for me, I never thought of it that way. By that I mean where you said " the relationship was primarily "run" by her and the delays and excuses I listened to would be more for anybody to stomach and , believe me - everybody has their "limits" "

Mine ran the relationship, I didn't have much say and yes the delays and excuses and let downs. All that on top of the rages and instant personality change very lovely to nasty in a split second over nothing.
I once told her I was her puppet on a string to her, she dismissed this as rubbish, she just couldn't see it.

[MarkDavid]

Sorry to hear of what has happened.
You've hit the nail on the head there for me, I never thought of it that way. By that I mean where you said " the relationship was primarily "run" by her and the delays and excuses I listened to would be more for anybody to stomach and , believe me - everybody has their "limits" "

Mine ran the relationship, I didn't have much say and yes the delays and excuses and let downs. All that on top of the rages and instant personality change very lovely to nasty in a split second over nothing.
I once told her I was her puppet on a string to her, she dismissed this as rubbish, she just couldn't see it.

Thank you IABW for your support and understanding.  I believe I used that phrase myself too (puppet) and that was also dismissed.  There was a never ending fire that I had to put out in order to "prove" myself to her; her reasoning, in short, was that no matter how poorly she treated me, I had to "stay"/not abandon her - which she morphed into a blank check to do just about anything to see how far I would go; like it was just a game - I'm finished playing it.

[MarkDavid]

Do you doubt this decision?  Have you gone through enough?

FF

How low should I stoop for her? I know that is the question for me to answer and I believe I stooped far more than enough, and I don’t want to do it any more.

[formflier]

Only you can answer those types of questions... how far... how low... .etc etc.

FF

[MarkDavid]

Only you can answer those types of questions... how far... how low... .etc etc.

FF

I know FF; I know.

Thank you for your words of advice; I did take them over the past weekend and really attempted to treat myself well; actually primarily resting and attempting to be very peaceful; and thoughtful. It was refreshing; thank you.

[MarkDavid]

How low should I stoop for her? I know that is the question for me to answer and I believe I stooped far more than enough, and I don’t want to do it any more.

Well by way of update, my closest real life confidante' gave me the heads up last night that, indeed, uBPD ex does actually have her ex literally living in that house I described earlier right there with her.  So, indeed, she has been completely lying to me about that, just as I suspected.

So, as I have actually taken some criticism on this board over my feelings of contempt toward her by some (not FF), I am just curious if this "little" fact changes anyone's opinions as to me and what I have been saying?  Is this the "un-diagnosed BPD behavior" that I am supposed to get "the tools" for in order "to support her" excuse this, too?  Or could it simply be that she is merely just a bold faced lying whore?  Curious.

[BPDFamily]

This thread has been paused because of numerous divisive comments made by the OP. It is important to respect everyone who invests time to sincerely help us. We may not be ready for some comments, we may disagree with others, some may misunderstand our story or our needs, but all members investing their personal time to make sincere comments should never be ridiculed.

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[Skip]

Well by way of update, my closest real life confidante' gave me the heads up last night that, indeed, uBPD ex does actually have her ex literally living in that house I described earlier right there with her. 

What has been happening?

[formflier]

  Is this the "un-diagnosed BPD behavior" that I am supposed to get "the tools" for in order "to support her" excuse this, too?  Or could it simply be that she is merely just a bold faced lying whore?  Curious.

Hey man... .you have had some tough news.  I'm sorry you are having to sort through that...    

In addition to the support... .I wanted to give you my take on the tools and their purpose.

I think the tools and "rules" that bpdfamily advises are to help "nons" gain some space in a troubled relationship.  Basically... .to help a "non" remove some fuel from the fire.

As a practical matter, it's hard to make long term decisions while the "flames" of BPD are raging around you (and on you). 

I'm less interested in the "support" that your pwBPD gets and more interested in the support YOU are getting.  While it may appear many rules are there "for" the pwBPD, that's really a side benefit.  The purpose is for nons to avoid getting "burned" further by the flames of BPD.  (unintentionally)

I hope that makes sense and you can see the important nuance there.

The "rules" are helpful for people trying to "repair and improve" and relationship.  They are also helpful for people like me, that wish their relationship could be improved, yet are faced with an unwilling spouse... .so they (me) need to find a life for myself and "put as much crazy in as small a box as possible"... .and then jam that box into a distant corner of my life (their lives).

or

It is also applicable to people that look at their partners decisions and say "I'm not going to be part of that... ." (I mean... .who really cares "why" a person is unfaithful?  ) 

There are rules to help YOU on the way out... .so that YOU can be the best person, post r/s with a pwBPD (should you take that route)

Last:  I have to imagine that was horrible news to hear (about the living situation).  Use that for energy and resolve to follow through with whatever path you choose.

 

FF

[MarkDavid]

What has been happening?

Well supposedly according to G.F. when I confronted her he was not living there which appeared to check out, so we then recycled big time over the holidays. We were very much together; she and I exchanged numerous intimate Christmas gifts, and everything appeared to be moving forward. One gift she gave me was an engraved candle that says “Believe”. That was meant as “Believe in Us; we are and will be happening.”  Well here we are again in silence at the end of January; with the event being what I described on the other post: me continuing on with a 5 day vacation with my kids at the end of February that she backed out of; due to her ex husbands medical condition and her 15 year old being so upset about that. We were prior to this latest development talking of moving in together; now I’m apparently dumped - kind of difficult for me to resolve in my head at the moment.

[formflier]

How long were previous recycles?

How many recycles?

[MarkDavid]

How long were previous recycles?

How many recycles?

We have been on again off again over at least 10 times.

Where we left off at on this message board was what happened around Thanksgiving which is on this thread, and I have been silent on the board for 2 months.  Christmas went relatively well, we had one kind of big blow up after New Year's about the logistics and timing of her moving in with me, we worked through that pretty quickly as the time table for that to happen got delayed (which is 1 of her tactics which drives me crazy) but I actually accepted that and definitely took the peaceful position of just do it (move in) if and when you are ready, and we were fine with that and things appeared to be going relatively well - i.e., that part of advancing our relationship would happen whenever it happens and when she is ultimately completely fine with it and comfortable.

But then this situation with the vacation happened, which then related to her ex-H's busband's medical condition arose, which I now have explained much better and in greater detail over on my other post.  And we are now back at chaos/Silent Treatment/are-we-over(?) Land.  Not enjoyable; I don't like this.

[formflier]

Based on your history... .how long will this phase last?

[MarkDavid]

Based on your history... .how long will this phase last?

Well this time I really do not have an answer. In light of this cancer situation; not to sound insensitive and solely in the interest of brevity, this medical situation is a whole new wildcard. This will be the longest “break” ever I bet, and may be permanent.