Improving or ending a freindship with a BPD woman

[MyBPD_friend]

Hi there, I found this forum and have read quite a bit on here. However, I just registered and will post my story soon.
Is there and guideline regarding the length of a post? Ok, I just saw the number of characters which is 16000 for one post.

When I tell my story, I will keep it as short and compact as possible.

My background:
I'm married with two sons and live in Germany, and I am also German.

The person with BPD is a woman I met in Holland last April, as for most people with a BPD friend, partner or relative, this is a difficult challange to deal with a BPD person.
I should say that this person is listed as SO which is not really the case, but there was no option for a near friend or emotionally attached person.

More within the next days.

Best regards to all

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tattered Heart]

Welcome MyBPD_friend,

You've found a great place for support. Does your friend know she has BPD or is it something that you found out on your own. What kind of problems are you experiencing in your relationship?

Also, I removed your real name from your post so allow you to remain anonymous.

[MyBPD_friend]

I find it hard to start explaining what happened to me / with me.

Before explaining that, let me introduce myself for a better understanding where I come from.

I'm in my 50 + years, married since 22 years, with my wife since 1989. We have a open and very good relationship/marriage with two almost grown up sons (18/22). We live in Germany and we are both German, but actually met in the USA while both on a scholarship, back in 1989.

My story in life has been difficult. I had a fire accident with bruns in my face as a young boy of 10 years, the scars are very visible. I accpeted myself well after many years and I'm basically a happy man.
However, my accident, many surgeries, left me with some psychological deficits. My new or old BPD friend made me aware (not actively) of my inner wounds from childhood. I think I've been extremely afraid of being abandened, not loved because of my visible scars and imperfections. I've been extremely afraid to stay alone in my life without love and a loving partner/wife. Although I've always had good and close friends around me, even until today, those fears seem to have been with me under the surface for so many years. My wife gives me much love, acceptance, tolerance and freedom.

My BPD friend:
She is 33 years old and escaped from the war inSerbia/Croatia (around 1992-1998) when she was about 12-15 years old. Her family stayed in Croatia whie she was send to Holland/Netherlands). There was some kind of trauma therapy back then. She has been with her boyfriend since she was 16/17, when he was about 28 years old. She told me when we met for the second time that something happened to her at age 15. This woman had an abortion at 17 and a misscarrige at 31, in 2015. There is also something she mentioned, that something happened to hear in 2015, one was the miscarriage, but I believe there was something else, as I remind her of someone.
This lady has a female relativ (cousine) at age 19 who lifes in the USA and has been burned in her face, just like myself.
This woman is very attractive, which I realized after at least two weeks after we met for the first time.
Almost at the end of our second meeting, a time, when I knew something is totally wrong with her (not talking about that) she said briefly that she has personality and identity problems. At this moment I didn't pay attention, I've never met anyone before with those problems - so I didn't ask any questions then.

There are two aspects important when you continue reading.
First, there was nothing intimate between that woman and me.
Second, I told my wife everything about her and our meetings.

I met her early April 2017, our second meeting was early May 2017, after she had cancelled a dinner meeting at last minute, as she said, due to a headache. I met her anyway, waiting in my car in front of her house, where she finally came to my car, after that we spent the evening and night together, dancing at a club and meeting some of her female friends.

Her boyfriend:
As mentioned, she's been with him (living together) since 17 years. He is 44 years and happens to consum light drugs, as I believe. Anyway he smokes something, at least twice when I was in the apartment and he would go out on the street for that.
I'm not sure (I don't really know him at all) if he has some personality issues himself.
But the fact that they have been together for 17 years is rare for a BPD, he might also have issues himself.

Why I believe she is BPD:
Last year, I posted my story in a forum, explaining how we met and was was going on. A psychiatrist gave me a hint. He highly sudpected that this woman has a Cluster B PD along with BPD and perhaps other disorders.

After that note, I seacrched the web, including youtube, for information and absorbed as much as I could read and listen to. That all strenghened my believe, that this woman is a BPD and eventually also NPD.

Our last eye to eye contact was on January 27th. We met at the place where we got to know each other the first time. This time in January it was an unexpected meet, which was very strange and unusual, almost speechless from both sides.

I will continue tomorrow by explaining how we met and how we 'communicated' since.

[MyBPD_friend]

Now I want to explain what happened to me in April 2017.

First, it would be great if any other BPD female could also answer to give some insights about what to make of this 'relationship/frienship/contact'.

Please read my introduction first to follow this text.

Friday, April 7th 2017
After a long day of visiting a classic car fair and a following little car crash (my fault) I drove to one of my favorite places, a bar/lounge with a little dance floor (Saturday the club is open too) in Holland to have some fun and to relay from my little crash. I've been going to this place on business trips since many years.
Besides chatting with new people, I also danced. During dancing I realized that a woman was watching me and looking straight into my eyes, that look hit me like a rocket. I went to her tabel and asked if she wanted to ask something. She directly seated me next to her and gave me a glas of her champagne on the table.

We chatted and danced, during dancing and chatting, she touched me, touched my face, my body and gave me little kisses. That was extremely new and unusual for me. An hour later I wanted to say good bye to her and leave to visit another favorite place that only gets crowed very late, I know a few people there to chat with. She asked me to join me and we drove to the nearby next city with my car.
She left another friend (male) at the first place. heactually came to the other club to see if she was doing ok with me.
While sitting near the dance floor, she kept looking into my eyes and touched my face. I've never experienced all of that before in my life and I didn't stop it, my mistake. When I started dancing, she started chatting with a younger guy, lot long after I saw her kssing with him. At that point it didn't bother me, but it seemed strange and totally inappropriate as her long time bf was at home.
Later that night, I wanted to leave and was about to get out the door without her, while she was still kissing with that guy.
I felt responsible for her as she came with me, for that reason I went to her table and told her that I was about to leave. She wanted to get a ride home and walked to my car with him in her arms.

On the way home, she said she doesn't know what it is with me, and she asked me where I would stay overnight. I told her that I usually stay in my large station wagon with a mattress and sleeping bag, I do that on all of my business trips (self-employed) to save hotel expenes.
She was looking for money in her bag to pay for a hotel, and I said no need for that. Once we got closer to her house, she started crying with tears and didn't stop.
She started asking me to stay in her and her bf's flat in the guest room which I declined. This scene was going on for 10 minutes, being in my car near the house.
To stop this crazy situation I said ok and went up with her to the flat. She made my bed and came back into the room to hug me for minutes without words. Same procedur the next day, she woke me up and looked at me with her intense eyes. Unfortunately I left my cell phone number when I left after breakfast with her and her bf.

During the next days, me back home (180 mi away), I received various 'love bombing' messages from her. I learned about this 'love bombing' through the internet. Out of the blue, she called me one night, while I was watching TV with my wife, she was courious to learn more about me and my family life and so on. It felt uncomfortable telling her things about me.
I've seen and realized many many red flags (didn't know that phrase before) of her.

For the next two weeks (April 2017)
I felt very confused emotionally as never before, I looked at her pictures before which I got though e-mail and realized that she was a very attractive beautiful woman. At the same time, I told myself, this woman is like poisen to me. I started to write a very long letter to her over days. I explained my feelings and how I perceived her behaviour, not trying to blame her.
She started doing the silent treatment and didn't respond/take my calls when I wanted to tell her that she came to close to me and that I wanted to get more distance to her.
Then she asked me to call me late April after having listened to my voice mail, saying that I needed sistance to her. We talked for more than 40 minutes to talk about our friendship (we actually didn't talk about it) and she suggested to go for dinner to talk. I agreed to meet her during my next business trip which took me close to her, planned for May 5th.

May 5th 2017
I've sent her a few SMS to tell her to meet an hour ealier. She did the ST again and didn't respond at any of my SMS.
About an hour prior to our date, she called me when I could not pick up the phone (meeting). She left a message saying that she came back from work, was tired and she had a headache and had to cancel our meet. Her voice sounded extremely soft, shy, unsecure and vulnerable.
I was really angry and said in an SMS that I'll be coming anyway and I would be waiting in front of her house for 30 minutes. She actually showed up and brought me up to her flat, where her bf was watching TV.
We had wine, champagne and went to the bar/lounge to dance and have fun, she asked a few of her girlfriends to meet us there.
I watched her that night and realized that she was also somehow attracted wo women and she looked very unsecure about herself.

That night was almost a copy of the first night in April.
On the way back home to her house, she said she had personality and identity problems. I didn't respond to that as I had no experience or knowledge about any PD at this point, but knew that soemthing was really wrong with her already.
Again I stayed at her house overnight. She woke me up the next morning with a glas of orange juice and placed herself close to me, speechless. We didn't talk.

When we said good bye, I gave her two of my books (one for her and one for her relativ in New York, also a burn survivor) of a photo project/exhibition about myself and other people with burns. I included my long letter, which I had written over the past weeks.
I pointed out what I felt and actually explained all the characteristics of BPD and NPD without knowing them and not knowing the terms.

Later that night she replied with these messages:

I read your letters. I can find myself in some of what you said. I have difficulties being around you, and it's not your fault. I start kissing when I had too much alcohol. I've not been intimate with any other than my boyfriend
Some SMS followed from me and replies from her.
The next Monday, after another SMS from me, she said, "Please leave me alone. You have everything my nice (burn survivor in the USA, 19 years old) has nothing and is dreaming of what you have (marrige, children, house... .)"

I think, I actually might live the life she doesn't have and she might be jealous for that reason.

May 8th, 2017
I told my wife everything what happened, she responded great and we talked a lot about it and that my friend is very ill and so on. I also told my wife I might see her again to talk to understand this whole thing that happened. My wife directly realized many things that I haven't been able to see so clear as my wife did.

May 9th - November 11th 2017
The summer went on with NC, except, I wrote another 'last' letter to her in July, not blaming her for anything, but telling her that I searched a lot about PD and that I know a lot more now. She continued NC. I was sure that I would not hear from her again and that she might hate me.

November 11th 2017
I was back in the city to visit the bar/lounge again. One of her girlfriends saw me there and texted her that I was there. She got ready, late at night, to come to the place to see me. I was told that she looked eben at the toilettes to find me, but I had already left for the other club in the next city.

Then I received these messages:
"Hi, come back. My friends told me you were her, please.
At this point I had deleted her cell phone number and didn't know who it was. My friend at the club said, that's probably her, she wants your attention.

I replied: "Who is this"
She: "Who do you want it to be?"

There was no doubt, that this could only be her.
I said: "It can only be you... .I will not come back, this night would just continue like the first nights we met. The bar is the wrong place to talk and this would be only convenient for you to make me come back to have fun with my company."

She: "so, you won't be back in town?"
Me: "I'll be in Amsterdam tomorrow and come back Saturday night, if you want to talk, come to the club".
She: "Think of me and enjoy"

November 22nd 2017
I thought a lot about her and our strange relationship and decided to make peace with her and call her to tell. I also told my wife. I've send a message prior to callin g her.
She replied SMS:
"Ok, sorry, I'm having a difficult time overhere"

That evening, we talked for more than 30 minutes, it was a good talk but I didn't ask any questions regarding her illness (she did NOT tell me that she has BPD).
We talked about daily stuff, what we did over the summer and what we had planned for the near future. She told me that she had a difficult summer and fall, always fighting with herself. I also told her that I'll be back late January 2018.

November 22nd 2017 - January 27th 2018
I've send her a few SMS, saying that I hope she'll be doing better soon. I told her that if I could do anything for her, I'll be there for her.  I also said that I'm her friend in Germany. I wished her a Merry Christmas on December 22nd and said I'll be back for business in her city on January 27th 2018.

During the above period, she did the ST (silent treatment), no response whatsoever. I got really angry on her attitude and behaviour, knowing that it is all part of her BPD games and behaviour. I still could not understand why she was hurting me, punishing me and ignoring me totally.
Perhaps she was angry that I didn't follow her wish to come back to see her when she was looking for me.

January 27th 2018
After having met a very nice very young couple in a cafe at night, I drove them back home. At that time, it was too early for the club that I normally visit, and visited the club where me met last year. It was Saturday night and the club was open with a special theme for the night. It was extremely crowded, when I got there, I was waiting in line to get in. Once I got in I had a drink and a smoke in the outside area.
After 20 minutes I walked up to the gallery on the first floor and saw her girlfriend and just said hello to her, don't even know her name. She is the one, that keeps the BPD friend updated if I'm there.

Anyway, I found a table and seat. I must have looked at my phone for a few minutes. When I looked up, she (the BPD woman) was standing accross of my table 6 feet away. She looked at me as she did the first time when we met. She had put herself in such a position, that it was impossible to overlook and not see her.
Those eyes are really crazy and she's using them to influence people by just staring/looking deeply into their eyes. She was beautiful and had more make up and styling than the two times before when I saw her.

We looked at each other for about 2-3 minutes without a word and without interrupting our eye contact. That was strange.
Then she came to my table to say hello and that I looked nice. Then she siad, "This is a big surprise"
Me: "No, It's not a surprise, I told you I'll be in twon tonight and your friend must have told you that I'm here and that I was here last night too."
She:"yes, she told me 5 minutes ago in the bathroom

I believe she knew that I was probably going to be in the club that night.

We kept looking at each other with no one word spoken. Then she asked me if I wanted a drink. She got a beer for me and something for herself. Again, no word just looking into each others eyes. After a few minutes she moved to the nearby table where some of her friends were sitting. Shortly after, she returned to my table and again, eye contact no word at all.
Then she said she needed to say goodbye to her friends.

No long after she left my table, I went off without contact to her and not even looking at her. Her back was towards me.
10 minutes later I saw her in a mirrow picking up her coat at the exit, while I was still waiting in line waiting for my coat. I watched her outside putting on her coat and leaving with her friends.

I must say, that I didn't expect her to be there at all. She normally goes there during the week, just for the lounge and bar, usually she doens't go to the Saturday night club. She also said in our last phone call (November 22nd 2017), that she's been isolating herself and she didn't go out much more. She was worried about her job (contact ends and was not yet extended) and that she would focus on her additional business qualification.

Now, to understand me and my behavoiur, this confrontation was weird, but it was something I wanted for myself, maybe to show to myself that I'm strong enough for an emotional confrontation like this. I did not want to talk to her, not that night and not in that environment and not with her friends nearby. I was really very angry on her going ST or perhaps NC, I don't know.
I wanted to bring accorss to her, that if we want to talk, she had to start. I've done a lot of effort to communicate with her, just to find that she'll punish me with ST or NC.

However I wrote a letter to her (regular mail) last week.

Now, what to do will all this?
To me, it seems like she painted me black and back white and so on, just the BPD cycle. It seems like she wanted a new contact. She came to my table and contacted me in November 2017 out of the blue. I would have hoped (not expected) that she would say something like 'sorry' for not responding, or that she might even be able to explain a few things, but nothing. We've looked at each other for at least 10 minutes with no word spoken that Saturday night in January.

I will be back there on February 17th. I want to meet my new friends I've made friendship with in January.

My question for adwise
What can, what should I do now.
I think she might me angry on me for not talking actively to her. Perhaps she wants NC now. I just have no clue.

Any siggestions?

I want to do one more try. I'll be there in about 10 days. I will text her that I'll be in twon that day, not anymore and I'll see what happens.

If you've hopefully read my introduction, I was hurt early in my life through an accident. I also realized that due to my early problems, I had issues of abandonment, fear of lcking love, fear of lacking acceptance and so on.
I strongly believe that she triggered these forgotten anxiety's in me and made me aware of things that disappered from my memory.

Another thing is my emotions towards her.
I really think she's very intelligent and that she might not even know about her BPD. However, she's aware of her big personality issues.
I'm not seeking a romantic relationship, but I feel like I want to be close to her and help her to ut her life in a better perspective.

I think, if she doesn't react to my visit on February 17th, I'll go NC and will not speak to her if I see her again in the future. I'll be done then.
Of course it will need some more time to heal, but I'm gone through a lot more difficult times before and I became a very stron person.

Hope to receive some answers.

Thanks a lot

[Radcliff]

I'm not seeking a romantic relationship, but I feel like I want to be close to her and help her to ut her life in a better perspective.

So, do you see the primary purpose of your relationship being to help her?

When you say "not seeing a romantic relationship," do you mean platonic friends without intimacy, or "friends with benefits" with intimacy?

WW

[MyBPD_friend]

So, do you see the primary purpose of your relationship being to help her?

When you say "not seeing a romantic relationship," do you mean platonic friends without intimacy, or "friends with benefits" with intimacy?

WW

Thank you for responding.

To tell you the truth, I don't really know.

Her behaviour towards me has triggered some very old wounds and inner scars that I wasn't aware of anymore. The more I thought about myself, I realized many simular fears that she might have.
I had a fire accident as a boy of 10, that left me with very visible scars in my face and even more inner scars, including many sugeries.

Some of my early fears were being rejected, due to my scars, not being loved, being abandoned, not having good friends and not finding a life partner.

All those fears got away in my life after having had a last difficult surgery at age 27, of which I came out stronger than ever. I didn't care anymore what people would think or feel when they see or meet me. I finally met my wife, we got two boys and everything one could ask for, much love, family and so on, a good life.

I did have two periods of heavy depression (2002-2003 and 2008), connected to my inner and outer scars but also for other reasons, nearly loss of home and facing getting bankrupt. All worked out to the good.

However, then I met this younger woman last April. She overloaded me with sympathy, love gestures and all what we know about the first time of idealization, red flags, ST, NC etc. (no intimacy).

I was very confused for weeks and feeling terrible, only thinking of this BPD woman. I explained everything to my wife who was very understanding and still afraid to some degree.

As I explained, after 7 months of NC she contacted me to see me again, I rejected, having been nearby her. Until then, I had read everything about BPD that I could find and understood a lot more about her and myself and why I liked her.
I decided to leave the NC with her and called her, we had a good talk and I wanted to be available to her as a friend who would try helping her, she didn't ask for that.

After that call, she went ST with me, that was until recently when I saw her and she came up to me, I explained that in my threat. She didn't hate me or reject me, I just was too angry about the ST and couldn't talk to her, she didn't really open any real conversation herself.

So yes, I mean platonic friends without intimacy, knowing that this is dangerous and playing with the 'fire'.
I know that she had a very difficult life when she was younger as a girl and teenager. She's pretty unhappy most of the time, her friends are the typical low quality friends with no deep relationship, I bleive she meets many guys, her boyfriend doesn't know about it, which I belive is not true, he is a drug user to whatever degree, she drinks too much alcohol. I doubt that any of her 'friends' know about per PD and BPD.
She knows, that I've learned a lot about the PS, NPD and especially BPD, I told her that I did much research. That didn't seem to scare her too much.

I think, after our last unplanned contact with almost no verbal communication (see threat introduction) in late January, I believe I'm at a turning point.

I might or might not see her soon. I don't know what that would be like. I've developed more strength over the past months and I believe I can handle seing her and talking to her, but I doubt that she will open up.

Soon I will have a new phone number and she won't be able to contact me again.
If I chose not to communicate with her again, I will also avoid running into her at places where she or her girlfriends go.

Besides all her controlling, abusive and manlipulating behaviours, I believe she is a 'good' person and not evil. But it feels difficult, if not impossible to put myself in her position to understand her and her communication with me.

Most of the few people who know about this (friends and wife) and others here and elsewhere have suggested to avoid any more contact with her to my own benefit, doing just that will still hurt.

Skip has put it in perspective, I know this is true what happened to me:

Love - the Vulnerable Seducer Phase

At first, a Borderline female (or male) may appear sweet, shy, vulnerable and "ambivalently in need of being rescued"; looking for her Knight in Shining Armor. In the beginning, you will feel a rapidly accelerating sense of compassion because she portrays herself as the "victim of love" and you are saving her. But listen closely to how she sees herself as a victim. As her emotions advance upon you, you will hear how no one understands her - except you. Other people have been "insensitive." She has been betrayed, just when she starts trusting people. But there is something "special" about you, because "you really seem to know her".

It is this intense way she has of bearing down on you emotionally that can feel very seductive. You will feel elevated, adored, idealized - almost worshipped, maybe even to the level of being uncomfortable -- and you will feel that way quickly. It may seem like a great deal has happened between the two of you in a short period of time as the conversation is intense, and her attention, and her eyes are always so deeply focused on you. Here is a woman who may look like a dream come true. She not only seems to make you the center of her attention, but she even craves listening to your opinions, thoughts and ideas. It will seem like you have really found your heart's desire.

Like many things that seem too good to be true, this is. This is borderline personality disorder idealization.

It will all seem so real because it is real in her mind. But what is happening is not what you perceive to be happening.

Through my life, I've learned hard lessons about pain. Most important of my knowledge and experience is, that all physical and psychological pain will go away with time.