Monogamy? What is a Realistic Shelf Life of a Relationship?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I've heard that as a species we're really not designed to be with our significant other until death do us part, at least not for as long as our life spans are these days.

So, I ask, what do you think is a reasonable life span of a significant committed relationship?

As for myself, 7-10 years has been the life expectancy.

First wife I was with a total of 10 years (dating and marriage). Second wife I was with 8 years and still legally married to for now.

So, although BPD has been a significant factor in the demise of the relationship that brought us here, perhaps in some way the relationship just ran its course and the end was just really ugly and unexpected?

J

[Jeffree]

I've heard that as a species we're really not designed to be with our significant other until death do us part, at least not for as long as our life spans are these days.

So, I ask, what do you think is a reasonable life span of a significant committed relationship?

As for myself, 7-10 years has been the life expectancy.

First wife I was with a total of 10 years (dating and marriage). Second wife I was with 8 years and still legally married to for now.

So, although BPD has been a significant factor in the demise of the relationship that brought us here, perhaps in some way the relationship just ran its course and the end was just really ugly and unexpected?

J

[gotbushels]

Interesting question Jeffree   

I've heard that as a species we're really not designed to be with our significant other until death do us part, at least not for as long as our life spans are these days.

I've sometimes heard things like this too. I do think it's an individual choice--probably related to one's faith too. What was your source?

... .perhaps in some way the relationship just ran its course ... .

I wasn't expecting the relationship to terminate in x years. I was looking at creating a relationship with a lifetime spouse.

[icky]

Yeah, interesting question : )

I've found that it's about whether you can grow *together*.

When a relationship starts, there's a certain amount of personal growth you can each do by getting to know each other deeply, and dealing with all that entails.

Once you know each other inside out, IMO you can hit a wall.
Either from that point on you find a way of both *growing* and *developing* as human beings together, and if you can't make that work, you start growing apart.

The time spans you've stated 7 - 10 years feel about right to me in terms of reaching that wall of "Are we going to grow to new levels and develop together or are we going to grow apart?"

Annoyingly, I thought my BPDx was the person I'd found at 40, that would be the one to grow *with*.
The irony is, that it turns out that I thought that because of the mirroring.
D'oh!

[Insom]

Interesting question, Jeffree.  I've heard that, too, though rail against it somewhat becuase I'm a romantic at heart.  I met my husband at 22.  I am in my forties now and treasure him and the relationship more and more with each year that passes.  That's not to say there haven't been rough patches, but we've weathered them. 

I like icky's point about growing together.  If you find someone you are compatible with personality-wise, that you can also grow with, then there is no expiration date and things get richer as you age because of the shared history.

Being in a relationship with someone with BPD clarified for me in a big way what I didn't want, so when I met my husband I felt ready to be with someone loving.  Without the BPD-relationship I'm not sure I'd have been ready to commit to my husband when I met him and may have passed him by.

[Jeffree]

What was your source?

It was so long ago, I can't remember, but it definitely wasn't anything like Cosmo or the like.

J

[Lady Itone]

I'm in my mid-40's, and I've definitely accepted that longterm, iron-clad monogamy is not for me, so I refuse to ever again promise or expect it. It makes me feel stifled, like I can't fully be myself if I'm not "allowed" to express love and sex to more than one person at a time, even if I'm feeling it for more than one person at a time, which happens frequently.

I've done all kinds of relationships, polyamorous, open, and even tried married monogamy for over a decade. My natural relationship orientation seems to sit somewhere between monogam-ish and poly-amorous, depending on who's around. I am fully capable of holding more than one person in my heart at a time.

Sex At Dawn is a good book exploring how the social construct of marriage began, and how it may be at odds with our longer lifespans and changing gender roles. Interesting stuff. 

[Insom]

I like that there are a range of responses to this question from long-time monogamy to polyamory.

[gotbushels]

It was so long ago, I can't remember, but it definitely wasn't anything like Cosmo or the like.

 Ok.

I like that there are a range of responses to this question from long-time monogamy to polyamory.

As for myself, 7-10 years has been the life expectancy.

How do children affect this strategy?

[valet]

i think it would be a mistake to believe that there is an evolutionary relationship clock that puts the lifespans of relationships we have outside of our control. sure, we can't control another person, but we can choose good partners, communicate properly, etc. all which certainly increase the odds of something that stands the test of time

it's not just BPD that determines when or how our relationships ended. it's who we choose and how we respond to the situations we put ourselves in.

if i told you that i was going to try and marry an emotionally unstable woman with attachment issues, and that i didn't have good communication skills and suffered with attachment issues myself, would you believe that it would be a successful venture?

part of the problem here would be my selection of a partner and my partner themselves. the other part would be my unwillingness to be educated about or deal with my own issues

what do you think?

[truthbeknown]

Interesting question, Jeffree.  I've heard that, too, though rail against it somewhat becuase I'm a romantic at heart.  I met my husband at 22.  I am in my forties now and treasure him and the relationship more and more with each year that passes.  That's not to say there haven't been rough patches, but we've weathered them.  

I like icky's point about growing together.  If you find someone you are compatible with personality-wise, that you can also grow with, then there is no expiration date and things get richer as you age because of the shared history.

Being in a relationship with someone with BPD clarified for me in a big way what I didn't want, so when I met my husband I felt ready to be with someone loving.  Without the BPD-relationship I'm not sure I'd have been ready to commit to my husband when I met him and may have passed him by.

INSOM:

Can i ask a personal question? if you have been with your husband that long and he is not BPD why do you stay on the boards?  does it help you in other growth areas revolving around relationship?  This is a curiousity question and by no means a critical question.  I'm thankful that your comment/s inspire me to believe that there is life after BPD, i just was wondering  about your path and perhaps you can share how you felt you were ready to meet your husband on a healthy level?

[truthbeknown]

I'm in my mid-40's, and I've definitely accepted that longterm, iron-clad monogamy is not for me, so I refuse to ever again promise or expect it. It makes me feel stifled, like I can't fully be myself if I'm not "allowed" to express love and sex to more than one person at a time, even if I'm feeling it for more than one person at a time, which happens frequently.

I've done all kinds of relationships, polyamorous, open, and even tried married monogamy for over a decade. My natural relationship orientation seems to sit somewhere between monogam-ish and poly-amorous, depending on who's around. I am fully capable of holding more than one person in my heart at a time.

Sex At Dawn is a good book exploring how the social construct of marriage began, and how it may be at odds with our longer lifespans and changing gender roles. Interesting stuff. 

Lady Latone:

So I just started looking at date sites again.  I was in a relationship with a woman who exhibited BPD type character traits and yet I also believe that there is a part of her that wants to be FREE like you have mentioned that works for you.  The problem for me was that she would say one thing and then do another.  I've thought about what i would've done if she had expressed in a more clear way from the beginning what she wanted out of relationships.  So for example (and this is where i'm looking for your input) if you know you don't want to be in a monogomous relationship long term, what do you say to a potential partner up front? or do you mention this?   

What should someone who is geared more toward monogamy know about someone who isn't?  for example if you went out on a date with someone and they asked you, "are you looking for a long term committed relationship or something else?" what would you say?   

The reason that i'm interested in this right now is that I"m in a huge transition in my life after the last relationship fell apart.   I started hitting date sites again just to see how i felt about "getting back out there" again.  I was looking for a woman who is the same religion and a few days ago one sent me a comment about my pics saying "cute" and started a conversation.  Last night we talked at length and she pretty much told me that she is a "gypsy" and likes to move around so it's hard to find a guy who wants to be in a relationship with her and would be willing to pick up and move when she wants to.  At the same time she was telling me that a few guys who have met with her on dates (she calls meet and greet dates but i don't see the first encounter as a date) have assumed that she just wants to have sex.

It appears that she is not really into monogamy but maybe is afraid of being judged but at the same time doesn't understand why guys just want to talk to her about sex then? 

I tried to talk to her about this.  She is very smart, educated etc and I just asked her, "is it possible that you already know that you get bored with just one guy after the excitement wears off but you're afraid of  being judged for saying that?"  She thought about that and said, "well i guess i do get bored."  She then went on to tell me that when we first talked earlier in the day she thought that i "talked to much".  That was after asking me a ton of questions and i was just answering them i thought.   I can sense that finding a "chink in the armor" might be a self defense mechanism for her.   

So why the interest for me?  I'm really not in a great place to find a long term partner and if i could just find someone who would like to hang out and do social things etc i would like that.  She asked me if a guy like me who is used to long term relationships could be with someone who's not.  I think that was a screening question for whether i could handle just having a "casual relationship".   Truthfully, i think if i knew going in that was on the table and i had a choice to decide then i would be better with that then if someone love bombed the heck out of me and then switched to someone who just wants a casual relationship.  So I was going to make an individual post about this but your reply to the posters question got me curious what your response would be.  I'm also curious if you're on here because you ran into a BPD partner how that would affect you if you really didn't want a long term relationship anyway?  I mean is it different if ones focus is polyamory?   

[Insom]

Hi  truthbeknown.   

INSOM:

Can i ask a personal question? if you have been with your husband that long and he is not BPD why do you stay on the boards?  does it help you in other growth areas revolving around relationship?  This is a curiousity question and by no means a critical question.  I'm thankful that your comment/s inspire me to believe that there is life after BPD, i just was wondering  about your path and perhaps you can share how you felt you were ready to meet your husband on a healthy level?

Awhile back, maybe two years ago, I started having an intense series of dreams about a relationship I had when I was a teen.  The relationship was abusive.  He was diagnosed BPD while we were together.  I didn't understand what BPD was back then but the dreams inspired me to google it and that exploration led me here.  I've learned (and continue to learn!) a lot, not just about that relationship, but about my family of origin on these boards. Just entered therapy in February so healing is still unfolding for me.

I met my husband about 18 months after leaving the relationship with BPD-ex and was still traumatized but ready, for sure, for some kindness in my life.  He and I clicked but in a different,  softer way than I'd clicked with people before.  I think I got super-lucky by finding someone who was a good fit for me before I was technically ready and then having the grace to say yes and not mess it up. Neither of us are perfect. But we've managed to grow together as we've grown up rather than apart. 

On some level, I feel ashamed that this past relationship is still an issue for me, but apparently that's what happens when you stuff things down.  It wasn't 'til now that I felt ready and had the resources to look at my past and present issues in an intensive way.

[truthbeknown]

Hi  truthbeknown.   

Awhile back, maybe two years ago, I started having an intense series of dreams about a relationship I had when I was a teen.  The relationship was abusive.  He was diagnosed BPD while we were together.  I didn't understand what BPD was back then but the dreams inspired me to google it and that exploration led me here.  I've learned (and continue to learn!) a lot, not just about that relationship, but about my family of origin on these boards. Just entered therapy in February so healing is still unfolding for me.

I met my husband about 18 months after leaving the relationship with BPD-ex and was still traumatized but ready, for sure, for some kindness in my life.  He and I clicked but in a different,  softer way than I'd clicked with people before.  I think I got super-lucky by finding someone who was a good fit for me before I was technically ready and then having the grace to say yes and not mess it up. Neither of us are perfect. But we've managed to grow together as we've grown up rather than apart. 

On some level, I feel ashamed that this past relationship is still an issue for me, but apparently that's what happens when you stuff things down.  It wasn't 'til now that I felt ready and had the resources to look at my past and present issues in an intensive way.

Insom,

thank you for sharing that.  You must be very proud of yourself for giving yourself the tools you need to heal this past trauma.  If you don't mind me saying, part of why i ask some people these things is because i believe my exgf has dissociated the narcissism trauma from her mother and will not be able to begin to heal it until after her mom passes.   She is with a new man so i can't be there to support her and love her through it but i certainly would have and that is what makes me sad (that people process these things at different times and that some never do or aren't able to.)  You've made a big step and i hope that i can find someone who loves me in a gentle way too.  I am trying to date again so i stop thinking about my ex so much but it's very difficult.  if you're good with "luck" perhaps you send some my way?  thank you again for sharing and contributing.

[Jeffree]

i think it would be a mistake to believe that there is an evolutionary relationship clock that puts the lifespans of relationships we have outside of our control.

I was not implying there is any relationship clock. I was merely saying that on top of all the other random factors conspiring against the success of any relationship, there may also be an unrealistic expectation to be make it through to the end with your partner to death do you part. Yes, of course, in theory it can be done well, BUT I do believe... .

That making it 'til death do you part isn't necessarily proof of a successful relationship. Two people can be unhappily monogamously married/together 'til the end. Yeah, they "made it",  but at what cost?

J

[truthbeknown]

i think it would be a mistake to believe that there is an evolutionary relationship clock that puts the lifespans of relationships we have outside of our control.

I was not implying there is any relationship clock. I was merely saying that on top of all the other random factors conspiring against the success of any relationship, there may also be an unrealistic expectation to be make it through to the end with your partner to death do you part. Yes, of course, in theory it can be done well, BUT I do believe... .

That making it 'til death do you part isn't necessarily proof of a successful relationship. Two people can be unhappily monogamously married/together 'til the end. Yeah, they "made it",  but at what cost?

J

so then why should we even care so much.  If relationships are doomed to fail then that would make sense why so many people just bounce from one to the next and never believe it's going to work out long term?  has our past injuries shaped us that now if we "can't beat em; join em"  meaning that we shouldn't expect relationships to last forever?  So maybe i'm starting to believe that too?  i don't know? i am afraid that i might fall into that mindset thinking that since there is no perfect one might as well love the one your with.  See the double bind in this?   

oye.

[Jeffree]

If relationships are doomed to fail then that would make sense why so many people just bounce from one to the next and never believe it's going to work out long term?

Again, I am not saying relationships are doomed to fail. Rather, I am merely pointing out that the chances for success are very slim and that adding this idea of us not being designed for long-term monogamy makes those chances even slimmer than any of us factor in.

i am afraid that i might fall into that mindset thinking that since there is no perfect one might as well love the one your with

The double bind for me has always been that after weeding through the legit dating options, going on the dates, getting know some women more intimately, I ultimately wound up with the two women I married and gloriously failed with... .who were the best of the bunch.

There were long dry spells without any reasonable options, a few female friends to hang out with without any romance involved, and a couple of FWBs, and the only two women I have connected with on any reasonable level were my two wives.

I never thought, "Eh, she'll do" in this dismissive, selling out mindset. I legitimately found them worthwhile and thought they thought the same back in a meaningful way.

Hence, it's not a matter of loving the one your with as much as you're with the one you love and vice versa. Unfortunately, there's a lot more to a person and a relationship than the honeymoon phase, and a lot of times things deteriorate as they progress.

But that's just me.

J

[Lady Itone]

Lady Itone:

... .So for example (and this is where i'm looking for your input) if you know you don't want to be in a monogomous relationship long term, what do you say to a potential partner up front? or do you mention this?   

What should someone who is geared more toward monogamy know about someone who isn't?  for example if you went out on a date with someone and they asked you, "are you looking for a long term committed relationship or something else?" what would you say?   

 I'm also curious if you're on here because you ran into a BPD partner how that would affect you if you really didn't want a long term relationship anyway?  I mean is it different if ones focus is polyamory? 

Hi truthbeknown,

I think a common misconception that polyamory it's all about casual sex (and yes some will use "I'm polyamorous" as an excuse to sport-f**k.) But I am absolutely open to a longterm, committed relationship. Heck, I'm even open to more than one committed relationship!

"Committed" in my mind, does not mean "monogamous." To me, being committed means I always make time to spend with my partner(s). I make plans with them and keep my promises to them. I'm honest with my partners, I listen to them and share myself with them, and I tell them what I need, and what does and doesn't work for me, and they do the same. Every relationship doesn't need to end in marriage/babies/cohabitation for it to be a "real" relationship with real emotional investment. 

OKCupid is the most poly-friendly dating site I've found, lots of poly people on there. Two people I've dated seriously (including gfBPD) I found on OKC, and lots of other dates that turned into platonic friendships, too.

I announce right on my profile that I tend to fall somewhere between monogam-ish and poly-amorous, and am only interested in people open to ethical non-monogamy. I don't engage with anyone who talks about looking for "the one," or anyone who says they're seeking someone to have kids with. I also make it clear I won't engage with anyone just looking to cheat on a partner in a monogamous relationship, and I'm not up for casual sex or looking just "to have fun." I'm up front that I require a certain amount of attention, even if you have other relationships.

I say just be honest with yourself and everyone else. If you're only up for a very casual arrangement, state that clearly up front, then only engage with others open to a casual relationship. If you're likely to leave town after a few months of dating, for crying out loud let people know so they can choose to participate or not.

Several years ago I had a polyamorous exgfNPD who pulled a total bait-and-switch on me. I thought she was offering a real relationship, turns out she just wanted me for casual sex. Her excuse was that since I had a husband (at the time), she had no obligation treat me or my time with any sort of respect or thoughtfulness. Um, no.

As for the current gfBPD, she always got in trouble in past relationships for flirting with or sleeping with other women, so she found me a huge relief when I don't sweat it. Since her mental illness got the best of her, we're operating as an LDR while she lives a few hours away in a group home. I just started seeing a guy (met IRL) totally open to the kind of relationship I describe, we'll see how it goes.

If we weren't poly, I would either have to cut gfBPD out of my life totally to be ready for a new relationship, or I'd have to suffer with my needs unmet waiting to see if she'll ever pull herself out of her current situation.

Hope that answers some of your questions.

[valet]

i think it would be a mistake to believe that there is an evolutionary relationship clock that puts the lifespans of relationships we have outside of our control.

I was not implying there is any relationship clock. I was merely saying that on top of all the other random factors conspiring against the success of any relationship, there may also be an unrealistic expectation to be make it through to the end with your partner to death do you part. Yes, of course, in theory it can be done well, BUT I do believe... .

That making it 'til death do you part isn't necessarily proof of a successful relationship. Two people can be unhappily monogamously married/together 'til the end. Yeah, they "made it",  but at what cost?

J

my post isn't advocating for people to stay in relationships that they see unfixable or threatening to their well being. we have a choice in who we choose as partners and especially how we behave. we have the power to make conflict worse just as we have the power to make it better.

the idea is that even if our relationships end up failing (sometimes they do, sometimes they don't), we're putting ourselves in a position for them to succeed.

i think it's easy to get down on ourselves after suffering the trauma of a failed relationship. maybe we want to find ways to protect ourselves because we don't want to take that risk again. the real question to think about is if this this kind of thinking ('humans aren't meant to have very long relationships) might be one of those self-sabotaging maneuvers that end up hurting us more than they help.

[gotbushels]

Thanks for the discussion Jeffree 

... .I am merely pointing out that the chances for success are very slim and that adding this idea of us not being designed for long-term monogamy makes those chances even slimmer than any of us factor in.

Well I see this as presenting a choice about belief. I think it's up to you if you want to follow the idea that 7-10 years is what you expect.

... .the real question to think about is if this this kind of thinking ('humans aren't meant to have very long relationships) might be one of those self-sabotaging maneuvers that end up hurting us more than they help.

Interesting thought.

[Insom]

You've made a big step and i hope that i can find someone who loves me in a gentle way too.  I am trying to date again so i stop thinking about my ex so much but it's very difficult.  if you're good with "luck" perhaps you send some my way?  thank you again for sharing and contributing.

Thanks for the thoughtful comment, truthbeknown!  What has felt difficult about getting out there again?

[Insom]

making it 'til death do you part isn't necessarily proof of a successful relationship. Two people can be unhappily monogamously married/together 'til the end. Yeah, they "made it",  but at what cost?

Sure, Jeffree, but what about happily, monogamously married people?

As for myself, 7-10 years has been the life expectancy.

What has happened for you at the seven to ten-year mark that has made continuing a relationship untenable?  What has broken down?

[Jeffree]

Sure, Jeffree, but what about happily, monogamously married people?


That happens as well. I have nothing against such lucky arrangements.

What has happened for you at the seven to ten-year mark that has made continuing a relationship untenable?  What has broken down?


My first wife up and left to have an affair with her boss after 10 years (7 years married). What broke down? A few months before she vanished I tried to address the lack of physical closeness creeping into our lives. I think she took that to mean either I was looking to leave, or she wasn't looking to engage with me on that level anymore because she was already doing it with someone else.

With my second wife it has just been a long, painful descent into growing unhappiness for me that caused me to separate bedrooms from her in year 7 and she moved out six months later.

J

[JNChell]

Interesting topic, Jeffree.
I’ve heard the same analysis on romantic relationship timelines. I think that this is more opinion based than anything else. I’m sure that there are sourced studies on the matter, but how were the subjects chosen? Did they respond to an ad? If so, the subjects may have been biased. Anyway, I think it becomes easy to generalize things like this given our unique situations. I think it’s important to remember just how “individual” and unique each and everyone of us are. Maybe thinking in terms of timelines removes us from the radical acceptance philosophy.

[gotbushels]

Maybe thinking in terms of timelines removes us from the radical acceptance philosophy.

I'm interested in your thoughts here JNChell   

[JNChell]

 Hi, gotbushels!
When I arrived here, my perception of Radical Acceptance was very skewed. I now know, and have accepted that it’s about being in the here and now, and accepting and realizing that things and situations are what they are without questioning or trying to change them if they are outside of myself. I believe that it ties into the fact that we only have control over ourselves. We can’t, and shouldn’t, try to control anything outside of ourselves.

Anyway, my thoughts on this are that thinking in terms of a timeline when it comes to romantic relationships would remove me from the state of RA. I guess it would make me a predictor in a sense, and predicting the outcome of something that hasn’t come to fruition yet, to me personally, doesn’t seem to be in line with the philosophy of RA. I’m still learning and grasping all of this. I hope this makes sense.

[once removed]

this digs into the numbers. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/18/how-the-likelihood-of-breaking-up-changes-as-time-goes-by/?utm_term=.dfa0e9736734

Sixty percent of the unmarried couples who had been together for less than 2 months during the first wave of Rosenfeld's study were no longer together when he checked up again the following year. But once a relationship lasts a year, the likelihood that it ends begins to drop precipitously. Over the first five years, the rate falls by roughly 10 percentage points each year, reaching about 20 percent for both straight and gay couples. And the rate continues to fall until about 15 years in, when it levels off for both—at just over 10 percent for gay couples and roughly 5 percent for straight couples.

Why? Well, it's fairly straightforward. As Rosenfeld noted in 2014, "the longer a couple stays together, the more hurdles they cross together, the more time and effort they have jointly invested into the relationship, and the more bound together they are."

[gotbushels]

JNChell  

Thanks for sharing. Those are some interesting takes on the relationship between Jeffree's ideas and radical acceptance.

I believe that it ties into the fact that we only have control over ourselves.

Yes, one thing we do have control over is ourselves.

We can’t, and shouldn’t, try to control anything outside of ourselves.

... .thinking in terms of a timeline ... .
I guess it would make me a predictor in a sense, and predicting the outcome of something that hasn’t come to fruition yet, to me personally, doesn’t seem to be in line with the philosophy of RA. ... .

For you, how does prediction (e.g., about the 7-10 year time) interfere with a state of mindfulness?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/18/how-the-likelihood-of-breaking-up-changes-as-time-goes-by/?utm_term=.dfa0e9736734

Nice find once removed--thank you.   The graph looks like quite good news.

[Jeffree]

I'm a skeptic. OK. There. I said it.

3,000 couples? What kind of sample size is that? There are just too many factors to account for in order to get an accurate picture of marriage. Race? Age? Geography? Income levels? Professions? Length of time dating prior to marriage?

This seems to imply that divorce is the exception not the rule. No way is that true.

I'm not thinking in terms of timelines here. I'm just telling you how long my relationships/marriages lasted and thinking that about 200 years ago I would have had longish term marriages because the age expectancy was much shorter.

In the end, all I am throwing out here is how the purpose of marriage has changed over the years and how its duration might be changing, AT LEAST AS A PERCENTAGE OF LIFE EXPECTANCY, and that this might be something to factor in as the cause of the demise of our relationships/marriages here.

Ultimately, I am concerned that even as people we are treating one another as more disposable and as commodities.

J

[Skip]

3,000 couples? What kind of sample size is that?

3,000 couples is a scientifically significant sample size, Jeffree.

The 50% number is a myth... .it includes death as a divorce and it is skewed by serial marriages (people married multiple times) and whim marriages (the few weeks/months type).  Its is pretty well established that 20-30% is the number for first time marriages.

You are right that there are a lot of demographics with different statistics... .

[gotbushels]

Jeffree  

I'm a skeptic. OK. There. I said it.

Personally I think it's quite okay to have a 'healthy' amount of skepticism about the dating market in general.

... .sample size ... .

Not taking any sides here--so in some parts of my work any suitable sample above 30 is fine.  

... .I'm just telling you how long my relationships/marriages lasted and thinking that about 200 years ago I would have had longish term marriages because the age expectancy was much shorter.

Yes.

In the end, all I am throwing out here is how the purpose of marriage has changed over the years and how its duration might be changing, AT LEAST AS A PERCENTAGE OF LIFE EXPECTANCY ... .

I thought this data about expectations might be useful for your discussion.

(right-click open image to new tab)

Source is The Normal Bar [... .] by Northrup, Schwartz, and Witte; 2013. The discussion on sample for the survey is in the book's appendix. It's something like 70,000–100,000 of Reader's Digest readership. I'm not sure if they narrowed the sample for the question categories. I'm not commercially related.