Trying to rise above the crazy: 38 yrs, he flips the switch so quickly...

[lonely38]

I have been married for 38 years.  The vast majority has been full of conflict and confusing emotions.  I am at a place in life where I am very tired of the continuing behavior.  My husband is approaching retirement and so a lot of his emotions are coming out with less to do to occupy him.

I have started therapy for help with BPD althought he has not been formally diagnosed.  What I am realizing is that I need to distance myself from him no matter if the relationship is going well or if it going bad.  He is just not to be trusted as he flips the switch so quickly.  

Our relationship has been full of immorality and alcohol abuse.  I am finding myself at a place where I am also drinking too much and I want to get healthier.

Any thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

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[pearlsw]

I have started therapy for help with BPD althought he has not been formally diagnosed.  What I am realizing is that I need to distance myself from him no matter if the relationship is going well or if it going bad.  He is just not to be trusted as he flips the switch so quickly.  

Hi lonely in co,



Glad to have you with us! This is a great place to find support and give support to others with situations that could otherwise feel so isolating.

Can you tell us more about how he flips the switch so quickly? In what kinds of situations does this arise?

You want less time with him lately just to catch a break? I can very much relate to that!

with compassion, pearl.

[Enabler]

Hey Lonely In Co,

Wow... .38 years is a long time. My guess is that over that time you've learnt many things subconsciously, things that work, things that don't, things that allow you to continue life whilst maintaining 'some' sense of order.

What awareness does your husband have of his behaviour and how it impacts you?

It's great to hear that you have both sought professional help together, especially before/around a time where you're likely to share more time together with retirement.

Enabler

[lonely38]

I honestly think that for most of the 38 years I have tried to do what I thought was right.  I stayed in the marriage for our children's sake.  My husband can be kind and attentive but I never know when that is going to change.  I must be a slow learner because only in the last 6 months have I really started to think there was more going on than a difficult marriage.
Through a lot of reading and research and therapy, I am realizing that he more than likely is struggling with at least BPD symptoms if not full blown BPD and maybe narcissism along with it.  That combined with his depression that seems to be somewhat of a constant companion and his abuse of alcohol.
About 8 years ago, our marriage had a huge revelation as he confessed all of his risky behaviour including sex with prostitutes, anonymous sex with people he met on airlines, massage parlors, and more. 
I am struggling to figure out how to keep moving in the right direction here.
He is currently vascillating between between deep sadness and depression over his thoughts he has mental illness, his deep regrets of his life and then he flips the switch and gets angry with me for something he notices that seems 'off' to him.  His most recent was last night.  He says every time he tries to get close to me, that I move further away.  Instead of asking me if that was accurate, he tells me this is a continuing trend.  He forgot the fact that I have been sick and we have had nonstop company in our home.
He seems to have been triggered by a move we made a few months back.  My understanding is that stress is a trigger that can create all kinds of issues.
I am very tired and sad and lonely at this point.  But feeling better about finding some good books and therapy and online help.  I am open to any and all suggestions.
And I think I have definitely been an enabler in this relationship.

[Enabler]

Thank you for opening up a little further, some of the details you have there are pretty huge and tough to get out, but enhance the picture for us none the less.

None of us know your husband and therefore can only suppose on the motivations and thought process he was going through when he did those things. Either way knowing about them must be very hurtful. Have you been able to tie together why you think he did those things with your reading about BPD?

Regarding only just realising about BPD, well I made it to 19 years together before I found BPD... .so what’s another 19 hey!  it’s just something you don’t expect I think. I expected mental illness to come with flashing lights and a little bell. I even knew my W had childhood issues and she used to self harm! Don’t kick yourself... .that was then, this is now.

Cycling between helpnesses and anger is very very common with depression. Look up ‘crazy eights’ by Tony Robbins, he has a whole bunch of YouTube videos and some insanely expensive conferences you can go on, anyway, it explains the emotional transition between anger and helplessness quite nicely. Everyone kinda does this but if you have BPD traits and maybe some underlying trauma causing the depression this cycling will go on overdrive. For you H he may be so used to this cycling that it’s his normal, so he doesn’t experience himself as any different but sees you withdraw or come closer... .when in actual fact it might be that it’s him who is pushing and pulling in the relationship.

Hope this is of help to you

Enabler

[lonely38]

So, it seems that since I have begun to consider my husband may have BPD and since he has also begun to consider this as a possibility that our relationship has majorly tanked.  We are not in a good place right now.
He is vascillating with huge mood swings.  One day apologizing and then later that day back to being angry with me. 
I knew he was talking with a therapist over the phone yesterday.  I asked him how it went and his response to me was 'at least one of us is getting help'.  He came back about an hour later to apologize.  Now today he is asking me what was wrong with what he said. 
He is telling me that just because he is looking into his problems, that unless I look into fixing my problems that the marriage will not get better.  I told him I am in therapy and working to release myself from getting into conflict with him.  He has outright said and then  insinuated that I also have a personality disorder or that I have serious personality issues I need to deal with.  I tried to listed to him this morning but he would not stop.  Finally, I told him I had heard him and asked him if we could honor each other with the way we felt about that topic.
He is writing horrible things to me on his phone and basically even though he seems to realize he has issues, he seems hyperfocued on me.  Is this normal?  What do I do to respond?  Do I need to just remove myself from his presence. 
I am so tired of the way he treats me.  I have no idea when it is safe to be around him these days.

[Enabler]

Lonely in co

This is likely to be a very very emotional period for your H and as you're aware emotions = emotional responses. So both of you are becoming aware of BPD, can you imagine what that is like for him? Whilst you possibly have a lot of relief that it's not you, you're 'not the problem', he's there feeling this enormous weight of 'being the problem'.

Your aim is to give him a container with which to work out his feelings and chew through this. He will be desperate to make this your problem, he will be desperate to drag you into the problem boat with him. Let him think that you have a personality disorder, don't invalidate that, let him think what he likes, you can't control that. If he tries to tell you what's going on with you, you might want to say something along the lines of:

"Thanks for sharing that with me, we're both working through our own problems, and we BOTH have things to work through. We're both working with professionals to look deeply at ourselves and that's where I think both of our attention should be at this time... .ourselves. I care deeply about you and am always here if you want help talking through things about you, likewise I would hope that you'd listen to me if I need to share things about me."

Does he show you the things he writes on his phone or do you snoop? Either way you are possibly accessing raw information he is working through. There will be a heck of a lot of 'working through' going on and that is a good thing. Let that happen and accept it for what it is... .raw feelings. I know that I have had some pretty raw hateful thoughts about my wife, if I wrote them all down I am sure she would be dismayed... .and what if you wrote down your raw uninhibited thoughts, what would they look like?

Do not expect to be in a good place, these will be dark dark dark days... .however, if you want to get through to the light, you have to push through in a controlled, intelligent and purposeful way.

What does he say in the writings?

Enabler

[lonely38]

Your advice about the emotions that my husband is going through is good.  It helps me to understand my place and what I need to be doing and thinking.  I believe that after 38 years of this, I am so attuned to his moods that I have allowed myself to be drawn into his crazy which has now become our crazy.  I am exhausted and I know he is as well.

What is hard and has been hard for a very long time is his desire to put me 'in my place' and to tell me how bad all my problems are.  His writings include that.  And yes, I did snoop.  My bad.  I realize I should not do that.  But after years of infidelity and when I am seeing him on his phone ALOT, it makes me wonder what is going on.

A theme of his thinking is that whenever he tries to get close to me that I pull away.  I am surprised when he says this.  Can you help me to understand this? He gets angry at me for this thought process of his and tells me all of the bad things I am thinking about him, etc.

He is going to a therapist today.  I can almost feel a storm brewing around us with the tension and anxiety and emotions.  He did say that when he had a phone conversation with this female therapist that they shared they had also struggled with BPD.  Is that common?

I have struggled with so much loneliness and am so grateful for this forum to ask questions and put my own thoughts and feelings out there.

[Enabler]

Morning,

Have you had a chance to read and of the articles on site, I think some of them like this one could answer a few of your questions.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/why-we-struggle-in-relationships

I’d love to take the moral high ground around snooping but I can’t, it’s a tool I use a lot to understand the inner workings of my W and give myself a better picture of what is going on amongst her lies. How do you tell when my wife is lying... .her lips are moving. One has to careful that they know where the moral and legal lines are though, scraping available information that’s been left out or in the public domain is one thing, hacking is another. I’m not condoning it but can totally understand why you do it.

Regarding therapy. I would find it very very very strange if a therapist shared anything but the highest level information about themselves, and certainly not their personal struggles with BPD. Therapy is not about them AT ALL and their position is designed to be inert in the process such that they stay centred. What is could be happening is that your H is trying to normalise his problems such that he can come to terms with them, “everyone has this”. Each session should hopefully be emotionally tough for him. Your soul is like an onion, the T will try and peel back each layer, each layer being tougher than the last, each layer comes with hurt but also elation and relief that you’ve shed that burden and “dealt with it”. There’s a good chance that he will think that he’s got to “the core” lots of times and will likely say he doesn’t need any more T. Encourage him to stay and be guided by the T as to when he is completed his work... .it will be longer than he thinks.

I don’t know about the push pull nature of your relationship, I don’t know whether you do pull away when he tries to draw near, it would be a perfectly valid response given the years of infidelity etc... .however, this is a common feeling of pwBPD but typically it is actually they whom are pushing away when they feel a sense of engulfment. Some people say keeping a pwBPD just at arms length keeps them more stable than if you were to be hugging them constantly (metaphorically speaking).

Whilst he and you are working through your therapy sessions things are likely to be very rollercoaster as you are both asked to think deeply about your past and the way you think about things... .and the hurt you have caused others.

Enabler