Well that was a kick in the face (Part2)

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

This thread is a continuation of another which can be found here: Well that was a kick in the face

Here is what I’m thinking I’m going to do and the reason why :

We’ve spoken enough and I’ve heard enough to understand what she’s going through.Although I still feel stupid it’s something I’m just going to have to mature out of .So on Wednesday I’m going to do the following (hopefully she won’t cancel because she may think I’m leaving her).

Walk in to her place , I know she will have a timid standoffish stance to her (a Kinda fear of the unknown from me) . I will walk up to her hug her and kiss her , whisper in her ear I love you, thank you for your honesty and clarity, it’s ok now ,let’s keep growing together and move past this .

The reason why I’ve 98% chosen this : sometimes I tend to forget she has BPD, and my emotions run high without taking this into account.Because I’m still fairly solidly in love with her still , I don’t believe I’ve reached my limit yet and as exhausted as I am , I still have more juice.Hell if I can spend 3 days without sleep in my 20’s in training and running until I threw up and passed out, I think I can handle some more on this subject .Its that damn aging thing into my early 40’s that the exhaustion happens  

[Shawnlam]

This thread is a continuation of another which can be found here: Well that was a kick in the face

Here is what I’m thinking I’m going to do and the reason why :

We’ve spoken enough and I’ve heard enough to understand what she’s going through.Although I still feel stupid it’s something I’m just going to have to mature out of .So on Wednesday I’m going to do the following (hopefully she won’t cancel because she may think I’m leaving her).

Walk in to her place , I know she will have a timid standoffish stance to her (a Kinda fear of the unknown from me) . I will walk up to her hug her and kiss her , whisper in her ear I love you, thank you for your honesty and clarity, it’s ok now ,let’s keep growing together and move past this .

The reason why I’ve 98% chosen this : sometimes I tend to forget she has BPD, and my emotions run high without taking this into account.Because I’m still fairly solidly in love with her still , I don’t believe I’ve reached my limit yet and as exhausted as I am , I still have more juice.Hell if I can spend 3 days without sleep in my 20’s in training and running until I threw up and passed out, I think I can handle some more on this subject .Its that damn aging thing into my early 40’s that the exhaustion happens  

[Shawnlam]

I meant I didn’t react to her live ,I did react here though kinda did that on purpose posting here was wiser that saying or doing anything out in the real world.There will be more moments I’m sure of me reacting here but that’s why I do it now , speak here ,when emotions and options from everyone calm me down ,then react out there with her on better footing.

[pearlsw]

I meant I didn’t react to her live ,I did react here though kinda did that on purpose posting here was wiser that saying or doing anything out in the real world.There will be more moments I’m sure of me reacting here but that’s why I do it now , speak here ,when emotions and options from everyone calm me down ,then react out there with her on better footing.

That is a great way to handle it! And when you can, go back and read what you wrote and observe how you do. When I go back and look at my crisis posts - yikes!   This is not easy stuff, man!

~pearl.

[Wicker Man]

if I can spend 3 days without sleep in my 20’s in training and running until I threw up and passed out, I think I can handle some more on this subject .Its that damn aging thing into my early 40’s... .

Not running 3 days, vomiting and passing out in your 40's is not weakness -that is called wisdom. 

I believe  this is more or less what Skip is getting at.  You can't solve this sort of an issue by running at it full speed.  A relationship needs to be looked at as a long game. 

There will be ups and downs --you need to look at the trend --not each and every data point in isolation.

Wicker Man

[Skip]

I meant I didn’t react to her live... .

  You mean you didn't react as strongly as you felt.

Be self-aware. You reacted. She saw it and felt it. It was much better than last time, but the punch still landed.

She is an extremely sensitive person. You are an extremely reactive fight/flight person. Both of these conditions are on the higher end of the spectrum of "high conflict" personalities.

In this particular dynamic, you react by what she feels to be bullying. She reacts by being passive aggressive (this is what these cancelled dates are all about). So you have a cycle. She does impulsive emotional things that make sense in the moment, if they trigger you, you go into "bully mode" (loud or quiet), and she goes into passive aggressive mode.

   You two are only going to get a finite number of these. You have already done quite a few rounds. She will come to the point where she will eventually snap if you don't get a handle on this. She will then tell the next guy that you were a bully and she didn't trust you (because you would run).

Don't take this as criticism, Shaun, this is the time bomb-ticking that you have worried about. You have control of the fuse.

Walk in to her place , I know she will have a timid standoffish stance to her (a Kinda fear of the unknown from me) . I will walk up to her... .

That timid standoff stance should be telling you something.


So many men come here (not you, a general statement) and say, "out of the clear blue sky, she suddenly ghosted me one day".  That, sir, can be because of an overdose of high conflict cycle - it is the ultimate passive resistive reaction.

[Shawnlam]

Well I did react just not in “I’m outta here mode” or even to my surprise “quiet” mode.We did talk on the phone and she did get upset but not because I threw it in her face more I repeated what she said to understand what she was saying and at that moment she kinda did the uh oh thing.Old shawn would have lost his ___ said ___ this then you want him take him goodbye I have no time for this BS.I got those feelings but said none of that , honestly I don’t know anybody on this planet who when announced from the gf that they aren’t over their ex could simply shrug it off and ask what’s for dinner.Most “alpha men “ would have just walked away and moved on,most “beta “ men would have gotten angry and demanding .I kinda reacted with extreme confusing (never saw this coming) came here posted and 24hrs later was kinda on my way to calmer thoughts .I could have done better but compared to before me , geez night and day .I did notice how extremely sensitive she is this time you are correct ,before my anger clouded that stuff or maybe I didn’t care before who knows

[Skip]

I could have done better but compared to before me , geez night and day .I did notice how extremely sensitive she is this time you are correct ,before my anger clouded that stuff or maybe I didn’t care before who knows...

A little JADE?

Can you validate that you heard what I said? That will help me. It will work with her. It will work with other member too. We all want to be heard.

I gave you a serious warning. Do you hear it?

As for living your life to with the manosphere model as a standard, you might want to rethink that. That's mostly about young adult men that don't do well with women. 

And yes, this is a huge improvement over what was happening in the spring.

[Wicker Man]

I don’t know anybody on this planet who when announced from the gf that they aren’t over their ex could simply shrug it off

I did exactly that Shawn.  I felt my ex was confused and scared -so I supported her absolutely.  She was having trouble detaching, so I was there for her. 

The way I look at it is this  --she had a choice to make and by showing her who I am it was likely she would choose me.  This was not manipulation or calculation on my part -but instead how one must treat a loved on in a relationship.  In times of stress a couple can either come together or push each other apart -this is a time of stress for you and her.

It is not impossible to take this in stride. 

Have a look into the idea of 'Active Listening'.  Often our loved one's don't need us to 'fix' things, they just need to be heard -to know someone loves them enough to listen to them.


Wicker Man

[juju2]

Hi Shawn,
Been off of here for a while.
From 30000 feet up, it looks like triangulation, her T and her, and then you.?
i mean, anything her T and her talk about could be considered closed.  You werent there to see body language, maybe the T was pushy, not getting what really goes on.
Something very similar happened w me and my "crazy" sponsor, who i didnt know was nuts.
I was listening to her, she didnt know him, and she was making conclusions from thin air.

Its just a thought.  I use a lot of believe half of what i see and none of what i hear... .

take what you like and leave the rest!

take good care, j

[Skip]

From 30000 feet up, it looks like triangulation, her T and her.

Hey juju,

Triangulation comes in two flavors, good and bad. Generally, triangulation with the therapist is good if the therapists is good.

Do you feel her therapist getting involved in a drama triangle?

Skip

[juju2]

Skip,
Think this is a good opportunity for S. and g/f to set up some boundaries around confidential conversations.
If the T wants her to tell S something, then it would be best to have that convo w T, S and his g/f.
Otherwise, it becomes convuluted,  what is the intention, does it need to be shared... .?   the T has tremendous control and power, and they could be mixed up themselves!
I dont think even a T. should have that kind of power... . if his g/f had that issue w former b/f, much better to talk it thru w the T.  What possible good can come out of vomiting on Shawn... .

Some guidelines of what works, what doesnt work, can be put into place, by trial and error... . like w my sep s.o., if he asks to call, i ask, would you let me know the topic or what the call will be about.
That way, i am not caught up in a conversation thats isnt safe for me, i get to choose.

somehow, its better to go ahead and have some ground rules, based on what has worked for you all.

All is just my opinion.

Thanks,  j

[Skip]

What possible good can come out of vomiting on Shawn... .

What do you mean here, specifically?

[juju2]

The T is directing how their r/s goes, what is important.

No one except the two of them figure that out.

Its sad that we let non invested people, make big impact on our relationship.  I would step back from allowing a third party to tell me what i must share w my s.o., especially "their opinion".

What is the intention.   Is it true.  Is it necessary.
Is it kind.   Do i need to share this with my beloved NOW? my r/s was riddled w non invested individuals interfereing with my r/s.  period.

[Shawnlam]

I see both of your points on the therapy subject as valid.To Julu part therapists do have a lot of power ,luckily mine seems neutral for all parties .An example of this was when I walked in and said I’m here because I ended a relationship with someone with BPD.All he said was, how do you know she has BPD that’s a pretty strong statement and he took it from there.

I think that my now no longer exgf’s therapist touched some sensitive subjects with her ,and I think she had to tell me because she is now on this honesty thing to an extreme .Yeah it took me off my feet but I’ve understood better now this way then maybe later like 1-2 years or 6 months from now I get a , I’m going back with my ex to try again I’m sorry , text or email.That can still happen and frankly I won’t dwell on it ,but the way my mind works is I’m now prepared for it.Its along the lines of “ well can you really be that surprised shawn this happened “ so I’ve prepared that angle now .You see as much as her mind functions the way it does from circumstances in her past.My mind was trained a little more a military way because my dad had that mentality and then I went into the military .The whole premise of that training is to prepare for the maybes even if they don’t happen.So I’m glad she told me what she did because now I’m prepared for it.

So skips (correct me if I’m wrong) is , I wasn’t attacked but informed by what her therapist discovered

So julu’s point :her therapist does wield a lot of power and this could be god or bad in the long run given the therapist is given only one side of story and if she isn’t neutral enough could lead to unjustified labeling or judgement .

[pearlsw]

Hi Shawnlam,

Just a quick check-in to see how you are feeling today? Where are things at for you now?

warmly, pearl.

[Shawnlam]

Things have settled , she’s coming to my house tonight to stay with me and we have been talking back to normal again as of yesterday .Like I mentioned in a previous post I’m going to just have this experience as water under the bridge and end any doubts she may have by simply telling her I love her and need her in my life ,plus a kiss and hug,I want her to feel better .I might actually say something like “ I want to help you feel better “ but I’m not sure yet.Ive been studying validation techniques and a lot of what I’m reading  when speaking to someone you are validating should be with words like “I want to understand. Or I want to help you  etc etc.

All in all this has prepared me for a possible outcome later on .Before Skip opens up on me for that comment   , I’m not going to walk around daily thinking she’s gonna leave me BUT , I’ll have that extra wall up in my heart and mind so if it happens it won’t actually be a shock .I also heard some very personal news from one of her old best friends about her and her ex .Her ex best friend told me because she thought it would help me and it did , I never asked her for the information because frankly I never knew it existed .

[juju2]

Shawn, i get all you are saying.


Their disorder is one of emotions.  My challenge that i learned here is to not overwhelm.  Keep myself aware of where they are emotionally, like being mentally agile.  I have to be between where they are and zero.  It sounds like you are fixing to go over the top of where she is emotionally.
I would gather what cues you get today, forget about what you want to say, you have to be in the moment.
Agility, awareness, knowledge of the plain fact they have a mental illness that gets triggered by interactions w others, mostly the closest one to them.mostly emotions from our words, actions and intention.
How i comfort my s.o. is to not overwhelm with what i want to say and do.  I have to be the rock.
Does this make sense.
In this way, i can assist w leveling the peaks and valleys, which is what is most comforting

All my opinion.  Take what you like.
With gratitude, j

[Skip]

Ive been studying validation techniques and a lot of what I’m reading  when speaking to someone you are validating should be with words like “I want to understand. Or I want to help you  etc etc.  

I don't know if you this article or watched the video, but even if you have, it's worth a second (and third) look.  I've listed to the video at least 10 times myself.
https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

1. Not being "invalidating" is the first step. It's also the most nuanced. The video is the only the only resource that I have found that really covers this part. 2. Validating in time of calm is the second step.  Think of a big jar in the kitchen with black and white marbles. White marbles are for validating acts  and black marbles are for invalidating. You get 1 white marble per validating act and 3 black marbles for invalidating acts. You want that jar to be as white as possible that next time there is a conflict. The whiteness in that jar will be the best tool you have. 3. At the time of conflict, its not so much about validating as it is about listening rather than speaking. Let her speak, listen, ask clarifying questions, say you need time to think about it. Come back the next day (or two), parrot back what she told you until its clear that she sees that you got it, THEN, tell her you calm collected thoughts and ask her to think about it for a few days and "let's talk again".

This is a really good way to keep emotional balance in a relationship.

[pearlsw]

This is a really good way to keep emotional balance in a relationship.

I would just like to echo what is being shared here. It is very easy to think of the tools as being something we use when a crisis hits, but this is really about us being willing to do some work to reorient how we approach the relationship all in all. If you can use the tools habitually, make good communication your natural default, you won't be scrambling to remember acronyms, etc. when the winds change.

Hi Shawnlam,

I sincerely hope the two of you have a good night. You have made it through another day with some successes. Enjoy that you have done better and keep that bar high for yourself/self-control.

wishing you fun and  , pearl.

[Shawnlam]

Well it seems this hurdle is settled so I can close this chapter and wait for the next one.Like I had posted I didn’t dwell into anything further on the matter ,I simply said I loved her ,thanked  her for being honest and clear and ended everything about the subject.She was Super happy to be with me and said a few things like “ we will have a great life together “ , and some others of the sort .Instead of reacting to the overly happy moods as well I’ll just kiss her cheek or something .Ive noticed reacting equally to her when she’s in an exceptionally good mood doesn’t help my mental sanity anymore than when reacting to the exceptionally negative ones.I believe a lot of us get hooked and go the wrong way when responding to the planning of life,moving in,kids and marriage talk .When you don’t allow yourself to believe this then your attachment levels remain at a normal level and therefore dependancy or unhealthy requirement to always be thinking about them or wanting to be around the subsides or never really happens .In simpler words , you remain on a normal natural relationship  progression mentally , a much more healthy place to be .Im sure many have noticed in their present relationship or the past ones , how intense these individuals get when on a high of good emotions ,I think the best takeaway one can do is not to get equally excited ,remain yourselves ! That extreme emotion dumping up/down isn’t healthy for anybody especially the chemical discharge it causes in the body ... .one gets too used to the fight or flight  and when it’s gone it’s like being tossed out of a hurricane .Although it would be insane in compare relationship ptsd to actually war stress ptsd  I believe the rewring of the brain happens the same way .It then makes it’s incredibly hard to detach or get over it if the unfortunate happens and the relationship ends in whatever fashion that will be.BPD or no BPD I think time will reveal if marriage or children or living together can be possible .