Is it me or her with the problem?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Or is it both of us?  In general, my wife is not a very affectionate person.  Well recently, I was feeling quite alone and finally got up the courage to tell her this.  I offered up a solution of maybe she could at least come to bed for 5 minutes each night when I go to bed, to say goodnight and offer a hug or kiss.  To make a long story short, my wife and I got into a long heated discussion last night about me being too clingy and needy, counting on her too much for my happiness, and the big one: I am too controlling.  We have been having this same fight for 17 years.  I ask for more affection (verbal or physical) and she reads it as controlling.  I try to tell her I do not ever want to force her to do things she doesn't want to do, but she insists that if I am upset or sad about the situation, that is my passive aggressive way to manipulate her into showing affection.  I feel like our normal pattern is for me to feel unloved because of a lack of affection, I bring it up, which turns into a huge fight, she then says I am trying to control her again, she then tries harder anyway for a couple of weeks until she forgets about it, then a month or two later I bring it up again.  Maybe it is me?  Maybe I am too needy?  I feel like I am more needy than her for sure in terms of wanting romance and affection, but I do not feel like I am way out of the norm.  I looked up the dependency personality disorder diagnosis, but I don't think that really sounds like me (I know most PD's can't see it in themselves), However, when I look up either Borderline or Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (perfectionism with anger) I definitely see some of the traits in her.  However, I am sure if you showed my wife those same traits, she would say I show some of the traits.  But wouldn't a PD do that?  Wouldn't they turn that back on you?  Soo confusing! 

[Processing]

Or is it both of us?  In general, my wife is not a very affectionate person.  Well recently, I was feeling quite alone and finally got up the courage to tell her this.  I offered up a solution of maybe she could at least come to bed for 5 minutes each night when I go to bed, to say goodnight and offer a hug or kiss.  To make a long story short, my wife and I got into a long heated discussion last night about me being too clingy and needy, counting on her too much for my happiness, and the big one: I am too controlling.  We have been having this same fight for 17 years.  I ask for more affection (verbal or physical) and she reads it as controlling.  I try to tell her I do not ever want to force her to do things she doesn't want to do, but she insists that if I am upset or sad about the situation, that is my passive aggressive way to manipulate her into showing affection.  I feel like our normal pattern is for me to feel unloved because of a lack of affection, I bring it up, which turns into a huge fight, she then says I am trying to control her again, she then tries harder anyway for a couple of weeks until she forgets about it, then a month or two later I bring it up again.  Maybe it is me?  Maybe I am too needy?  I feel like I am more needy than her for sure in terms of wanting romance and affection, but I do not feel like I am way out of the norm.  I looked up the dependency personality disorder diagnosis, but I don't think that really sounds like me (I know most PD's can't see it in themselves), However, when I look up either Borderline or Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (perfectionism with anger) I definitely see some of the traits in her.  However, I am sure if you showed my wife those same traits, she would say I show some of the traits.  But wouldn't a PD do that?  Wouldn't they turn that back on you?  Soo confusing! 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Rapt Reader]

In my own experience, Processing, even when our loved one is dealing with a personality disorder (BPD, NPD, OCD, whatever), the dynamics of the relationship are affected by the actions, reactions and behaviors of both of the people involved. Even if our loved one is dysregulating, the way we as their partner handle it will have a bearing on whether things calm down soon or not, whether things get resolved satisfactorily or not.

Your problem with being more desiring of affection than your wife is, isn't all that unusual with any romantic relationship. Your feelings of being lonesome and deprived of intimacy can be shared by millions of other husbands out in the world (my own Husband at times, too   ). I do know that the more my Husband "pushes" for affection (if I feel it is in frustration, anger, or neediness), I can feel my dander go up with feeling pressured and I want to pull back to decide for myself if I'm interested or not.

Over the years (we've been married for 41 years now), he's learned to let me know he's interested in ways that don't make me react that way anymore--a little tiny hint, combined with some humor letting me know that I am allowed to say "No" without hurting his feelings. And I've learned to be more in tune with his needs, being aware of these little tiny hints, and giving myself the leeway to decide if I'm interested or not... .

Since he has BPD traits, this can be a tricky business sometimes; if I don't key into his "hints" before things get to be too frustrating for him, he might dysregulate about it. Of course, I want my Husband to know that I love him and care about affection also, so I do try to be very aware of this situation between us. But, the truth is, I am just not as interested in physical intimacy as much or as often as he is; I have to assume it's a normal difference between human beings  

Have you had the chance to read all of the links to the right-hand side of this page? The Lessons? Have you read any books about BPD relationships? Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder? The High Conflict Couple? All of these things can really give you a good idea of just what you are dealing with, and the best ways to handle your relationship, which could really make the push-pull hamster wheel you are on easier to get off of... .

Another book that would be helpful is "Co-Dependent No More" by Melody Beattie (here's an Article about it, too: Codependency: When Our Emotional Issues Affect Our True Availability). The book is not about a relationship with someone with BPD (or another personality disorder), but it is a great book to learn how to not depend on someone else's treatment of us to color our world and cause us terrible angst and pain. I read that book years ago (before I had any idea about BPD), and it truly was life-changing and helpful with my relationship with my Husband.

So, in answer to your question "Is it both of us?" I'd say, yeah... .Not that you are being unreasonable or doing something "wrong", but every relationship is the sum total of both parts involved, and if you make some changes to how you react to your wife's actions (or inactions), it will undoubtably change her behaviors eventually... .It's the old saying that if you keep doing the same things, you will keep finding the same results. If you make some changes to your own behaviors, you should see different results. At least that is what I have learned  

If you have been having this same fight for 17 years, I'm wondering if you have tried anything to change the dynamics? Have any of those things you may have tried--besides your recent willingness to actually tell her how you feel--ever changed things between the two of you? If not, the links and books mentioned above should help with that... .I'd love to hear your thoughts about any of that information, Processing  

[Processing]

Ha!  We have definitely tried and tried to change the dynamics of our relationship to meet each others needs.  In general, I would say that over the years my wife has become more affectionate, but it often feels forced.  Probably for good reason. Our history is that I have tried many times to back way off and give her space to decide to come to me.  The reality is that she doesn't ever really do it.  She is just not made to be as needy for romance and affection as I am.  So we end up having to be a little more clunky about it. 

For example, if I don't initiate affection, for the most part it doesn't happen.  So when I initiate it, it happens fairly regularly.  However, it is rarely a romantic event as she is usually doing other things that are important (dishes, baths etc) or not (playing on her phone).  She is kind offish, but she is willing, because she knows it is important to me.  Well, that works for a while until I start to feel like she is never wanting to be affectionate, and I always have to initiate it.   Then I say something about it.  I then get the "your lucky it is happening" discussion.  Which doesn't feel very good.  Like I said, it's all pretty clunky.  But again, the only reason we ended up at this is because affection was happening so sporadically before and even then it was kind of like she wasn't real interested (stiff hugs, quick pecks etc) just to make me happy.  So, in my mind it is better to get it regularly when she isn't really interested than to get it just sporadically when she isn't really interested.    But if it is initiated by me, she feels controlled and if it isn't initiated by me, it hardly happens.  It has no priority. 

One of the things that has worked the absolute best for me is probably also the most unhealthy coping skill.  I numb myself to the pain of not feeling loved by not thinking about it.  I just try to ignore any need I might have for affection from her.  Instead, I focus on movies, or basketball, or playing on my phone.  Then, if she tries to hold my hand every once in a blue moon (way less than I would prefer) I can be surprised by it.  But that is avoidance and not talking about or dealing with the issue.  So, I really don't know what to do since the thing that works the best is not thinking about the problem. 

[Bad Husband?]

  I'm brand new to this site, but this is our situation to the T, except that we have 3 kids involved. Can anyone offer anymore insight on this thread?