Having a hard time validating my uBPD wife

[Warriorprincess]

Hi All,
I’ve found a lot of empathy and useful advice on this site, and I thank you for welcoming me into your community.  
Last night I had a fight with my uBPD wife that started because she said I wasn’t backing her up with our son. I’ve tried to get her to see that she needs to be the adult with him (he’s 16), but it feels like she triggers him, then he triggers her, and in no time they’re going back and forth bickering. Last night S escalated quickly and the “eff you”s started early. My W said it was all his fault & she wasn’t badgering him and insisted I read the texts. When I did, she was right that she did better at not meeting his anger with anger of her own, but I still felt that she handled the situation poorly. She accused me of never backing her up.
Soon the two of us were going back and forth since I guess that’s a trigger for me, and I feel so hurt that she doesn’t think I support her. She said, “This is a pattern you learned from your dad. He always made everything your mom's fault. Never seeing why she was rebelling. So you think that's how marriage is. I have to be to blame cause I'm apparently effing crazy. No matter what I do.“ This comment stems from her suicide attempt a month ago, which she says I had a big hand in - since I was planing an “intervention” with her family to get her help for her rage and violence. Now she says her family looks at her like she’s “crazy” and I did it all because I have an insatiable need for approval. Then she says I don’t stand up to our S because I’m afraid of him and want his approval too. 

My mom has bipolar disorder and it upsets me when my W makes everything my dad’s fault when I was growing up. I know this is because my W identifies with my M and thinks she was just misunderstood back then (like my W is now). That is demeaning and minimizing my experience as a child, being traumatized and then abandoned by my M. My dad was neglectful but never the unpredictable one. The situation with my W makes me feel profoundly misunderstood and unsupported, which is ironic since my W’s biggest complaint is, “You can’t even validate me when I ask you to.” It is so hard for me. I am trying - sometimes I can squeak out a “If I looked at it that way, I’d be upset too” and she accuses me of acting like a therapist and robot, not a spouse. I feel like I can’t win.

Does anyone have any advice on:
1. How I can show my support for my W when I’m mostly empathizing with my S?
2. How do you validate your BPD partner when you’re biting your tongue to keep from lashing back?

Thanks so much,
Warriorprincess 

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[No-One]

My W’s biggest complaint is, “You can’t even validate me when I ask you to.” It is so hard for me. I am trying - sometimes I can squeak out a “If I looked at it that way, I’d be upset too” and she accuses me of acting like a therapist and robot, not a spouse. I feel like I can’t win.
Does anyone have any advice on:
1. How I can show my support for my W when I’m mostly empathizing with my S?
2. How do you validate your BPD partner when you’re biting your tongue to keep from lashing back?

I suspect your wife is using the word "validate" to mean: "agree with a position, a truth" (not just validating feelings).  When validation is discussed here, we are not talking about agreeing with someone, but merely acknowledging someone's "feelings".

What can be most important is to NOT invalidate (which can be by word, body language or expression).  So if you struggle to come up with finding what to say to validate feelings, just don't say anything or tip a card with invalidating expressions.

Sounds like you are in a bit of a drama triangle with your son. Have you tried coaching your son to NOT get into a texting war?  Does he show signs of any mental health disorder, or is he just a typical teenager?

It could be helpful, if you check out the thread below on:    
"Do we validate feelings or beliefs?"
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=337066.0

[Warriorprincess]

Dear No-One,
Thank you for your helpful reply and the link to the other string. I copied a lot of things from that string into the “Notes” section of my phone so I can refer back to them. I was confused by the advice I’d seen on here of “Don’t be invalidating” until you said, if you can’t find anything to validate, just say nothing. I am trying to learn that most of what’s said during my W’s disregulated times is not about me. However, like Libra, I get sent back to the place of feeling not good enough, and I need to work on differentiation. This quote I read is incredibly helpful: “The practice of having a debate with someone who has strong biases can actually have the counter-productive effect of reinforcing their biases, as they repetitively remember and state the facts from their own point of view. This is what makes the idea of JADE - Justifying, Arguing, Defending or Explaining - such a bad idea. Instead, it is recommended that on any given issue, state your point of view once and once only. Provide any clarifications that are asked for. Anything more than this is likely to be counter productive.”

Sounds like you are in a bit of a drama triangle with your son. Have you tried coaching your son to NOT get into a texting war?  Does he show signs of any mental health disorder, or is he just a typical teenager?

Great questions. S does have some mental health disorders  (Asberger’s, ADHD, depression and anxiety). He takes medication morning and night, and has been in & out of MH treatment. That said, I have been coaching him to not respond when a texting war begins - sometimes he can do it and sometimes not. Before my W’s suicide attempt, it was a triangulation between the 3 of us that led to a 2-day standoff. There have been times that I have physically put myself between the 2 of them to stop physical violence from ensuing. My S does not become physical anymore (not for over a year) since he did 50 hours of community service for assaulting my W and destroying her laptop.

That’s all for tonight. Thanks!
-Warriorprincess

[Warriorprincess]

Question:
I’m pretty sure I’ve had a tendency to validate the invalid in the past, and now I’m struggling with whether I should do the tasks that my uBPDw yelled at me for. This morning she went on a tirade because I didn’t want to change our younger son’s therapy appointment again, so she went off on me for not helping around the house. I asked her if she could put a list of things that need to be done on the refrigerator since I don’t think of them, and she said that’s ridiculous since I’m an adult. She called me lazy, a “damsel-in-distress,” a user, a youngest child, and a terrible spouse because I don’t help with ANYTHING (I was starting to JADE, then stopped and said nothing; suddenly she thought I was recording her screaming at me, and I yelled yes I am, plus few choice things I’m not proud of. I wasn’t really recording her but I admit it feels good to think she’s scared I might expose her rage and abuse).
We got home and I started vacuuming, which I had planned to do to the day before, then I put salt in the water softener (two of the things she screamed about). I’m not sure if I should do other things she screamed about, or if I’ll be giving in to her demands. I know from behavior management that if I “reward” her screaming she’ll know it works, but there are times when I had planned to do the things she’s yelling about, and other times when I didn’t. For example, I don’t know how to change the water filter, but of course I could learn like I did for the furnace and humidifier. I also make sure we have toilet paper, Kleenex, garbage bags, soap, etc. but none of that matters because I let the dog food run out.
I’m angry and sad and frustrated and exhausted and anxious. The last thing she told me is she hates me, then promptly changed her FB profile and cover photo to not include me.
-Warriorprincess

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi Warriorprincess!
I don't think we've chatted so far, so I would like to say welcome here, I'm glad you've found us.

"If I looked at it that way, I’d be upset too” and she accuses me of acting like a therapist and robot, not a spouse. I feel like I can’t win

Validation is often a little  tricky in the beginning, and if we're not used to communicating this way, we can often come up a little robotic and "therapy like". It gets easier with practise and when you find your own voice and way of doing it. In the beginning for me, I was a little too close to following a script. But we have to start somewhere!

Like it was mentioned earlier, validation is not the same as agreeing, although it's possible your wife is seeing it this way. Validation is about seeing what the other person sees without judging it as right or wrong, it's about sharing their space and not talking at them. Often it comes off as us doing it to get our partner to stop what they're doing, and they can probably sense that.

My W said it was all his fault & she wasn’t badgering him and insisted I read the texts. When I did, she was right that she did better at not meeting his anger with anger of her own, but I still felt that she handled the situation poorly. She accused me of never backing her up.

To use this as an example. When we think our partners are in the wrong, it's really easy to slip it in there while trying to validate. Maybe here it would be helpful to start with something like "This is a really tough situation for you, thank you for sharing the texts" or "Hey, teenagers are hard to deal with and I see that you're giving all you've got. That's so great". Something that sounds natural coming from you.

And then at a later point in the conversation or at another time altogether, you can address her behaviour. People with BPD need a lot of validation to feel secure in opening up and to calm down, they are hypersensitive to perceived criticism. There needs to be lots of validation before there can be constructive criticism.  

Give it time and keep trying, you'll get there  

[Scarlet Phoenix]

An a practical tip:

If I looked at it that way, I’d be upset too

This is not really validating, because "If I looked at it that way" clearly shows that you don't look at it that way. Someone hypersensitive will see this as you pointing out how they're wrong to see it that way. For example "I see what you mean" or a focus on her feeling (here: upset) will fare better. Calm, kind voice: "This is really upsetting for you, I see that, very frustrating".

[Warriorprincess]

Thank you, Scarlet Phoenix! Very helpful, practical examples and advice. I really need to practice what to say since in the moment, I find it very hard to think/find the right words. I’ll just be patient with myself. I also thank you for the warm welcome!

I’m guessing that my JADE-ing and giving in to my W’s demands (ie, doing the chores she accuses me of never doing) has continued the cycle of abuse and repeated assaults on my character. I’m so used to having to prove my worth though that, although I hate it, I’d feel worse if I don’t try to fix whatever’s wrong. I understand now that fixing it doesn’t force her to learn to solve her own problems. She told me my love is conditional. Is that just projection or am I modeling what I learned as a child?

 
-Warriorprincess

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Is that just projection or am I modeling what I learned as a child?

A good question and worth exploring with a therapist.