Advice for cohabitation

[Depression = 72% of members]

I just realized on Wednesday that my husband is BPD and probably Narcissistic PD as well. I have been with him for over 5 years, and never put all the symptoms together until now. Once I did and researched online, I felt relieved and hopeful for the first time in years.

The reason for my post is to ask for help with cohabitation. I kicked him out 2 weeks ago after the last massive blowup. We have decided now to have him move back in before the first psychiatric appt in 3 weeks. I have yet to get the tools I need to interact the "right way" with my BPD husband. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Kc2419]

I just realized on Wednesday that my husband is BPD and probably Narcissistic PD as well. I have been with him for over 5 years, and never put all the symptoms together until now. Once I did and researched online, I felt relieved and hopeful for the first time in years.

The reason for my post is to ask for help with cohabitation. I kicked him out 2 weeks ago after the last massive blowup. We have decided now to have him move back in before the first psychiatric appt in 3 weeks. I have yet to get the tools I need to interact the "right way" with my BPD husband. Any advice would be appreciated.

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[once removed]

hi Kc2419, and

what led to him being kicked out? what led to him coming back?

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi Kc2419, how are things?

[Kc2419]

Hi, thank you for the reply. I just saw them.

He got kicked out due to lying, drinking and driving and a subsequent fender bender. I have no idea how much he'd had to drink, but I'm positive he was drinking, as he finally admitted in a text.

I told him to leave and he went to a hotel for maybe 5 days. He was saying how sorry he was and how he was working on things. He swore no drinking. Lo and behold, when I went to the hotel room, I found a bottle mostly gone. I flipped out on him over the phone. I called his parents and yelled at them to try to get them to step in and help. They went to pick him up "drunk as a skunk" (his words) and brought him to their house. This happened the day before I realized he had 7 of the 9 BPD traits, and at least 5 of the 9 Narcissistic personality disorder traits. Once I finally realized he probably wasn't just a lying selfish a**hole, that he probably had some serious personality disorder, I took him back in. That was 9 days ago.

Since he came back, we've had a couple different "episodes". Still pathological lying... 2 nights ago, he snuck vodka and got stupid drunk. He tried to get in the car and I stopped him. I called my parents over, and they were able to calm him down and waited with us until he sobered up enough.

Today, he has his first counseling appointment. I tried to get appointments quickly, but this is the first we were able to get. He has his first psychiatric appointment on July 5th, but I could use some help with not "triggering" him in the meantime.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi Kc2419, good to see you back :-)

So longterm his problem with alcohol needs to be dealt with. And if he's open to it, therapy for BPD/NPD traits. That's a way down the road, though, I would think. Many never get therapy, but there are still things you can do your end to ease tensions.

We put a lot of focus here on learning how to use boundaries (for our sake) and how to communicate better using validation (click on green text). There are many articles and discussions about both, but a good place to start might be the article I linked.

Can you give an example of a situation you would like to handle in a better way?

We're listening.

[once removed]

Today, he has his first counseling appointment. I tried to get appointments quickly, but this is the first we were able to get. He has his first psychiatric appointment on July 5th, but I could use some help with not "triggering" him in the meantime.

realistic expectations are key. this didnt develop over night, and it wont resolve over night. there will be hurdles and obstacles, and there is at least a possibility that it will always be an issue on some level. our article here speaks to what it takes.

Realistic Expectations: A person with BPD is emotionally underdeveloped and does not have "adult" emotional skills - especially in times of stress.  If you are in this type of relationship it is important to have realistic expectations for what the relationship can be in terms of consistent respect, trust and support, honesty and accountability, and in terms of negotiation and fairness, or expectations of non-threatening behavior.  It is important to accept the relationship behavior for what it is - not hope the person will permanently return to the idealization phase, not accept the external excuses for the bad behavior, and not hope that changing your behavior to heal someone else.

Accept the Role of "Emotional Caretaker": According to Kraft Goin MD (University of Southern California), "borderlines need a person who is a constant, continuing, empathic force in their lives; someone who can listen and handle being the target of intense rage and idealization while concurrently defining limits and boundaries with firmness and candor".  To be in this type of relationship, you must accept the role as emotional caretaker - consistently staying above it.

    Maintaining routine and structure
    Setting and maintain boundaries
    Being empathetic, building trust, even in difficult times
    Don’t tolerate abusive treatment, threats and ultimatums
    In crisis, stay calm, don’t get defensive, don't take it personally
    Don’t protect them from natural consequences of their actions - let them fail
    Self-Destructive acts/threats require action

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship

the good news is that getting help for it is a great start. mental health professionals will tend to focus more on addictions and substance abuse problems before focusing on personality traits.

[Kc2419]

Thank you both for the excellent advice.

realistic expectations are key. this didnt develop over night, and it wont resolve over night. there will be hurdles and obstacles, and there is at least a possibility that it will always be an issue on some level. our article here speaks to what it takes.

the good news is that getting help for it is a great start. mental health professionals will tend to focus more on addictions and substance abuse problems before focusing on personality traits.

I am surprised the underlying issues may not be handled first. I was thinking the psychiatrist would give him some sort of mood stabilizer. I guess we'll see in a couple weeks. As for realistic expectations, yes, I do see that. I know it will never ever be what I thought it was, as it never really was to begin with. I am however hoping for a plan which involves not only psychotherapy, but also medication. The Emotional Caretaker role is definitely helpful information. It's definitely going to take hard work on my part as well. 

Hi Kc2419, good to see you back :-)

So longterm his problem with alcohol needs to be dealt with. And if he's open to it, therapy for BPD/NPD traits. That's a way down the road, though, I would think. Many never get therapy, but there are still things you can do your end to ease tensions.

We put a lot of focus here on learning how to use boundaries (for our sake) and how to communicate better using validation (click on green text). There are many articles and discussions about both, but a good place to start might be the article I linked.

Can you give an example of a situation you would like to handle in a better way?

We're listening.

With regard to the validation, I've done a 180 with respect to the way I treat him and handle the validation. I never gave that to him. I grew up "rubbing dirt" on a wound... pick yourself up and get going again... you get accolades when something "really good" is accomplished... now that (I think) I know what I'm dealing with, I see that it's a whole different ballgame.

The boundries are giving us a LOT of trouble. I try to set boundaries, especially when dealing with accountability, and he turns it around and calls me controlling. Then I'm the b***h and he's the victim. I'm totally unsure how to handle this. For example, with the drinking, I bought a personal breathalyzer for him to carry at all times. He works for his dad as a 1 man show, so he's always driving around the city with zero accountability and a lying and alcohol problem. I can't tolerate the day drinking and driving, especially since he picks up our son more often than I do. However, it makes him LIVID that I ask him to test. He doesn't think he needs to answer to me.

Another issue I have is just trying to look at him like a person, and not a master manipulator/deceiver/architect of destruction... literally and figuratively... he sees that I see him differently, and it angers him. I'm trying to come to terms with my new reality, but it's been super hard for me. I feel like I'm not as supportive as I need to be because of it, and I don't know how to change it.

[once removed]

I am surprised the underlying issues may not be handled first

that makes sense regarding some (not all) physical illnesses.

substance abuse can both create issues, and exacerbate old ones. while that is occurring, it can be difficult to sort out which is which, and to what degree. an addicted person, who isnt in remission, and practicing better coping skills, generally is not in a place where getting to the underlying issues, or to seriously commit to doing so.

its like if a relationship is about to break up. the first step is to stop the bleeding - stop making things worse - before the underlying issues can be addressed and things can be made better.

With regard to the validation, I've done a 180

it is often easier to shift to a model of "dont be invalidating" than "validate". why? because it takes practice, and sincerity and authenticity are the most important ingredients in validating a persons feelings. most members, when learning this life skill, are called out by their partner for sounding like a robot, or a therapist, or for talking down to them. validate, yes, and build an overall validating environment that builds trust, but dont expect it to make problems go away.

if you practice listening with empathy (https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy), you will more naturally validate when and where its appropriate.

The boundries are giving us a LOT of trouble. I try to set boundaries, especially when dealing with accountability, and he turns it around and calls me controlling.
...
I can't tolerate the day drinking and driving,

you do tolerate it, though. if you didnt, you would have left (im not suggesting you leave).

i have a puppy. im trying to teach him not to jump on me or anyone else, so ive started telling him "off". he knows what it means, hes a smart dog. when he feels like it, he does it anyway. i can get mad and say it louder, but he will still do it.

thats not to compare your husband or anyone to a dog (or even compare the circumstances). it is to say that thinking of boundaries in this way (as rules or ultimatums), especially with a difficult person, will set you up for a lot of frustration.

the concept of "setting boundaries" can be misleading. they work best when we live them as a lifestyle, that is tied to our values. if youre going to set ultimatums, you must be prepared to follow through.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

Another issue I have is just trying to look at him like a person, and not a master manipulator/deceiver/architect of destruction... literally and figuratively... he sees that I see him differently, and it angers him. I'm trying to come to terms with my new reality, but it's been super hard for me. I feel like I'm not as supportive as I need to be because of it, and I don't know how to change it.

it often feels that way about our loved ones. the fact is, they have very limited, underdeveloped coping skills, in life/stress, and in romantic relationships.

as part of (and in order to) supporting him, you really need a strong support system yourself (experts will tell you its crucial). its an enormous adjustment, and even in the best case scenario, there will be storms.

have you spoken to his psychiatrist? the psychiatrist might be able to advise you on ways, or resources, to help you both cope, and support your husband.