Intimacy

[StartingHealing]

Hello all,

As the title says, I'm wondering on how to go forward and be able to enjoy sex with her again.  There is much that she has said in the past that has cut really really deep concerning sexual performance among other hurtful things. 

Recently, things are better enough now for me to consider that aspect of the relationship again. 

Insights?  Thoughts? 

Thanks in advance.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Jabiru]

Maybe think about and set some boundaries to protect yourself from verbal abuse on that subject.

[NotAHero]

 Keep in mind that sex and desirability are go to areas for BPs to attack.  The unconscious intention is to bring your self esteem down that way you don’t leave for others because you are so worthless. I know that sounds twisted but it’s just part of the disorder.

 Don’t take it personally. Most of what is said is not real. It has more to do of how the BP feels more than reality.

[once removed]

There is much that she has said in the past that has cut really really deep concerning sexual performance among other hurtful things. 

what did she say?

we really need more information to advise you.

reading between the lines though, regarding sexual performance, this is a fairly common conflict in a lot of relationships.

pressure is like kryptonite for a man trying to perform. negative feedback, or worse, is really unhelpful.

its a bit natural for a woman to see issues with her partners sexual performance and read it as a lack of interest or attraction, even though its typically not the case. people with bpd traits can be even more reactive in that regard...they are hypersensitive to perceived slights, criticism, and rejection. and they tend to react to those things in less than constructive ways.

so where a given woman might feel insecure about her partner having performance issues, another woman might not just feel insecure, but threatened, or attacked, and decide to respond in kind. it can be pretty hurtful, and definitely unhelpful.

also, what has changed thats making you rethink things?

[StartingHealing]

once removed,

This is difficult to type believe it or not. 

She has said many things over the years.  Everything from never have giving her an orgasm, it was always "just sex",  your unit is small, you never consider how difficult having sex is for me, (no matter the position) why was it that I was the one always initializing,  you don't find me attractive in that way,  you don't like looking at me when we have sex,  we have never been connected (which that still puzzles me),   You never were able to get my nympho going,  why don't you be a real man and push the issue and just do me,  women have to have feelings all men need is a place, you never lasted long enough, etc.etc.etc.

continue on in the same vein in a manner where it was to hurt and wound as much as possible. 

even while in the act, there was a common reoccurrence of her tmj  acting up, which happened mostly during sex, muscle cramps, bed is to hard / soft, to cold / hot,  to much natural lubrication/not enough, time to short / to long, the positions hurt,  I could be mistaken but to my memory it was the majority of the time that something was being complained about. 

There was always something off even when the relationship was "good".  At the end of a session where she had orgasmed at least 3 times it was something where she would get out of bed immediately to get cleaned up.  Not much time in a after glow cuddle ya know? Even suggested using condoms to minimize clean up but that wasn't acceptable either, tried towels, tried many things but still, after the act, usually immediate cleanup.   On those times where we would cuddle after clean up, my arm is to heavy, or your breath is to hot, hair, or, or,   Even when flipping the spoons,  and then temp is to high, having my arm over you hurts my shoulder, and, and, and,

It appears to me now that there was / is some sort of standard that needs to be achieved somehow and it's not a shared responsibility either. 

NotaHero

Before learning about BPD and the 4 agreements, I had taken most of what she said to heart. Now I realize that it's not objective.  You know, been thinking about the feedback I received from the sexual partners I had before wBPD and they didn't seem to have any complaints.  They seemed to be really happy with everything that had transpired.  Some to a point where they reached out with a "do you remember when" several years later.

once removed
Been considering that no matter what I do or don't do she's going to spin it to suit herself anyway.  So why not get to a point where I can really initiate and she how she responds?  Once I can get my inner self to really get that what she has said isn't objective at all. 

In many ways it seems like she has worked towards getting me to a point where my sexual nature is so restrained that to her it restrains me from other avenues.  Part of the "don't leave me" dynamic I reckon.

[StartingHealing]

Oh yeah, forgot about these ones:

I was never like this until I met you.  It's all your fault,  etc etc

sigh, it's always something so she can stay in victim mode dynamic yet she's such a "strong" person even with being "afraid" of, well, damn near everything seems like, yet the list of what she is afraid of isn't constant either.

 oh yeah, has no hesitation on complaining about my driving but when she drives I'm the one that has the seat cover up between my butt cheeks because of clenching them so hard.

I'm happy that I've found this space and that I have recognized that I'm not the monster that she has tried to convince me that I am.   I'm starting to feel like I'm an actual real live human!   

My thanks to all.

[Cat Familiar]

I hear you. 

My ex husband complained so much about my sexuality or lack thereof, that I completely lost interest in it with him and when coerced to do it, felt like a sex robot.

It previously was something that I really enjoyed. But having the constant critiques made me focus on what I was thinking (which wasn’t good), rather than what I was feeling.

[once removed]

the tricky thing is that people with bpd will test your limits, but at the same time, you cant have a relationship without a fundamental level of respect. yes, they lose their cool, and they over express themselves, and they say hurtful things, and if youre going to love someone with bpd its pretty unrealistic to expect otherwise. however, our loved ones also tend to know what they can and cant "get away with", and some things belong in the "never ever" column.

this is the sort of thing youre really going to want to nip in the bud.

lots of couples fight over sex, and especially differing sex drives. its one of the biggest relationship killers in any relationship. it was a big one in my own. so the conflict, in and of itself, is not uncommon, at all, and that is something you can potentially work to get on the same page about.

thats difficult to do if you have a partner thats not fighting fair, and is fighting dirty.

it will help to know that this is coming from two places:

1. insecurity and rejection sensitivity
2. general sexual frustration (frustration for someone with bpd can get extreme)

but it wont solve the problem.

so when the two of you are fighting about all this, and she says these things, what do you say? what do you do?

[StartingHealing]

Once removed:

The relationship didn't start off the way it currently is.  I know this is different than the usual BPD curve where it's "better" the older in age the sufferer gets,  yet it appears that the symptoms gradually grew more intense over the 25 years.  Menopause really kicked everything up a notch or 10.

 I would like to have sex, however I'm only recently coming out of the BPD induced fog.  Working on the inner stuff to clear the BPD B.S. you know?

Perhaps I've put the cart in front of the horse with this.

I had the married goggles on for a very long time.  When I looked at her what I saw was that person I married, not the person that she was becoming / person that she is.  From what I have learned that is a typical male thing. 

Once the googles came off then I was able to start seeing the reality of what actually is.  Which is ... it's such a mix of emotions that it's hard to describe. 

I know this doesn't answer your questions specifically once removed.  Working on getting out of the fog and building myself back up to full human status. 

Perhaps coming from a place of strength will change the dynamic to a point where sex is possible.  Maybe.

Thanks to all who read and to those that replied on this thread.
 

[Acronym]

Once removed:

The relationship didn't start off the way it currently is.  I know this is different than the usual BPD curve where it's "better" the older in age the sufferer gets,  yet it appears that the symptoms gradually grew more intense over the 25 years.  Menopause really kicked everything up a notch or 10.

 I would like to have sex, however I'm only recently coming out of the BPD induced fog.  Working on the inner stuff to clear the BPD B.S. you know?

Perhaps I've put the cart in front of the horse with this.

I had the married goggles on for a very long time.  When I looked at her what I saw was that person I married, not the person that she was becoming / person that she is.  From what I have learned that is a typical male thing. 

Once the googles came off then I was able to start seeing the reality of what actually is.  Which is ... it's such a mix of emotions that it's hard to describe. 

I know this doesn't answer your questions specifically once removed.  Working on getting out of the fog and building myself back up to full human status. 

Perhaps coming from a place of strength will change the dynamic to a point where sex is possible.  Maybe.

Thanks to all who read and to those that replied on this thread.
 

To be honest, you are my hero. I do not know how you find your own physical and moral powers to withstand the stream of this cocktail of both positive and negative emotions. It is hard work.

What pushes you to continue your relationship even though you sometimes feel offended?

[StartingHealing]

Acronym,

Thank you for saying that I'm like your hero but I don't see it like that.  I don't think that wBPD wants to be / have BPD.  I do see her suffering.  Some of the things that she says out loud to herself are just totally brutal. 

For myself, there are areas that I need to shore up and strengthen.  I recognize now,  that before I knew what was going on with BPD etc.,(which is only very recently) she had caused me to shift away from objectivity and I was operating more in her version of "reality" rather than my own.  Not only the BPD communication which is primarily feelings based, (which can take a bit to decode) but also the differing ways that male / female speak.  As a guy I'm more of a objective, overt communication while gals have more of a covert communication style. 

Since a relationship is the intersection of two people, if I change my steps / behavior then she will either change her steps / behavior or she will leave. 

Either way, I'm good with it.  Finally.  That is for me a huge milestone. 

Another one is "knowing" that the words that she spouts has little to nothing to do with me. 

No matter what she says, the words she says are a reflection on what her current emotional state is.  It's like what they say in Colorado.  If you don't like the weather, wait 5 minutes.

 It's taken a long time to get to where things are where they are and so I'm expecting for it to take some time to get to a more healthy place.