My Wife Wants A Divorce, But Doesn't More Forward With It

[Depression = 72% of members]

My wife and I have been married for 15 years, together for 17 years.  During that time she has had at least three emotional affairs that I know of.  I found out early on in the relationship that she roleplays online, sometimes in sexual settings.  I told it bothered me and she told me that she someone hacked her account and that it wasn't her.  Cutting to the chase, I found out later that she was lying and that she continued to engage in sexual roleplays for years

That lead to an emotional affair with an old friend in 2009.  I found out in 2010 and she swore it would never happen again.  We both ended up going to counseling separately after that.  She only went a few times and told me that she didn't want to go anymore because the counselor only wanted to keep talking about what happened online.  She was in a car accident not much longer after that and she never went back to the counselor.

Then in 2013, we decided to have a child.  We ended up with two.  I suspected that conversations she was having with a different friend online might be inappropriate. I felt like I was just being suspicious but I also felt like she was being evasive. When I finally brought it up, she accused me of not trusting her and made me feel like I was a terrible person to imply she was being unfaithful.

So in 2014, a little over a year after our kids were born, I found out that my suspicions were correct.  I ended up finding out that she was even more involved with this emotional affair than the last one.  I confronted her and she didn't deny it.  I considered throwing her out, but I was told I couldn't do that by my priest.  I definitely resented her for it though.  She did cut the online relationship off, but only after lying to the other guy more.  He eventually told her off for leading him on.

She also confessed to me during that time that she was very interested in BDSM and wanted to try it out. I did find it interesting as well and we tried an owner and pet dynamic for several months. I couldn't get past what she had done and the dynamic fell apart.

My fault was that I didn't try to get help at that point.  I was just plain mad at her for 5 years.  After these affairs and all the lies, I often couldn't stand to touch her or be around her.  I was hell bent on making sure she knew how wrong she was.

So then 2 years ago, I started seeing a therapist for my anxiety. He used DBT and has helped me to basically change who I am. I'm not upset all the time anymore, I actually have self confidence and control over my emotions.  I've got to the point that I don't feel like I need her to to regulate my emotions anymore.

So to her, about a year and a half ago she had a big emotional break down.  She told me that she was angry about the way I treated her for all those years and that she was in a "holding pattern" to see what happened.  She has talked to a therapist earlier that year, but was done with her sessions.

She has also started talking to a group of friends online.  I have met almost all of them and they know me well.  I know the "leader" of the group well and consider him a friend.  He doesn't tolerate infidelity and he told me that he would stop talking to her if she ever went down that road.

She brought up the BDSM dynamic again about a year and a half ago.  We again engaged in an owner and pet dynamic.  This time with set rules, etc.  I should also say that her current group of online friends also participate in similar dynamics and several are poly.

Last September we got into a fight.  The next day she told me that she had been thinking about it for a while and she decided that we need to get a divorce.  At first I was stunned, then I basically didn't accept it.  I did finally forgive her for her last affair though.  I felt a lot better.

About a month after she first talked about divorce, she told me that she didn't consider us together anymore. That she was free to do whatever she wanted.  She told me she was going to get her own bank account, get my name off her car, and then we would divorce.  She then did nothing about it for months.  Finally she asked when I was going to setup an account for her and get the car title changed.  My therapist told me to not do it for her and let her do that stuff.

I told her that I wouldn't really be helping her to be independent if I did it for her.  She did go get a bank account on her own.  She still hasn't moved her car title to this day.  She told me she was going to save up money for 6 months and then leave.  I knew that she spent far more than she realized and I doubted she would end saving much of anything.

Then in February this year, she told me that she wanted me to stop trying to "win her back."  That nothing was going to change between us and that I need to give up.  I then basically completely backed off at that point.  Then in March she told me that she was going to leave in July and go live with her parents. 

Her plan was for us to get divorced, she would take a few boxes of her stuff, leave the kids completely to me, and she was going to "let life take her where it takes her."  I find reached the point where I couldn't be quiet anymore.  I told her that her plan was unfair, selfish, and unrealistic.  That she was turning me into a single parent and abandoning her family.  I told her that I thought a therapist would be helpful and I would even pay for it if money was her concern. She told me a therapist wasn't what she needed and that she just needed to get away from the family.

She told me that she only had children for the marriage, she also told her friend that she wouldn't have children if she could go back in time.  She also told me that she didn't want to move several times.  That she tried to tell me a bunch of these things.  I bluntly asked her why she didn't just come out and say it. Her answer was that she didn't feel that she could say No, so she said nothing.  That it was my fault because I made her dependent on me.

I found out quickly that she had not talked to her mom at all about moving in with them.  She told me about two hours later that her mom was pushing her to get therapy, just like I had.  Her mom also kept using "we" statements by text.  My wife got mad about that and said this was all about her.  She acknowledged she was being selfish and unfair but also that she didn't care.  That the world was going to bend to her will this time.

Then in mid April, her parents called her and said that they couldn't support her decision and said she was not welcome to move in with them. She basically blew up and has sworn to never talk to them again.  She told me that she is burning bridges now and that she will continue to do so.  Her friends online haven't been much help, several have even encouraged what she has been doing.  Side note, at least three of them have diagnosed mental health problems and only one actually manages it.

So forward to last month, I have still been seeing my therapist. He said he can't diagnose her, however, she is showing the signs of Borderline Personality Disorder.  He recommended I read a book called "I Hate you - don't leave me."  So I got the book and have read over half of it. Along with articles online.  All I can say is, holy crap!  The book describes her actions almost perfectly.

Some of the statements in the book are things she has said almost verbatim. That she is dead inside, she doesn't feel anything, that she has no purpose in life.  She is very afraid of rejection, even just perceived rejection, to the point that she has self diagnosed as having Rejection Sensitive Disphoria.  She has big mood swings and becomes angry quickly.  She has taken basically no responsibility for her actions over the years and basically says she did these things because of me.  She used to self harm.  She definitely doesn't entertain logical arguments if they conflict with how she feels.

So overall she has diagnosed herself with ADHD, RSD, and anxiety but also refuses to even consider going to a therapist.  Even though she says we are not together, she still sleeps in the same bed with me, she still showers, undresses etc. in front of me.  Still calls me her spouse.  Basically acting as though we are married, just nothing physical between us.  She hasn't shown any signs of actually preparing to leave in months again.

I just really don't know what to do.  On one hand I feel terrible that she likely has BPD and won't get help.  On the other hand, I am concerned about her mood swings and how it effects me and the children.  I obviously can't force her to get help but I also don't know how much longer I can live like this. My therapist called it "being in purgatory."  I do have enough resources financially that I could take care of my kids without her being around. So I feel like maybe I should slowly push her out.

Any similar experiences or help would greatly be appreciated.  Her statements and actions seem so contradictory.  She wants to leave but doesn't do much to further that end.  She wants independence but her idea.to achieve that was to live with her parents.  She wants to not be treated like a child, but then acts like a child. 

[Dur1156]

My wife and I have been married for 15 years, together for 17 years.  During that time she has had at least three emotional affairs that I know of.  I found out early on in the relationship that she roleplays online, sometimes in sexual settings.  I told it bothered me and she told me that she someone hacked her account and that it wasn't her.  Cutting to the chase, I found out later that she was lying and that she continued to engage in sexual roleplays for years

That lead to an emotional affair with an old friend in 2009.  I found out in 2010 and she swore it would never happen again.  We both ended up going to counseling separately after that.  She only went a few times and told me that she didn't want to go anymore because the counselor only wanted to keep talking about what happened online.  She was in a car accident not much longer after that and she never went back to the counselor.

Then in 2013, we decided to have a child.  We ended up with two.  I suspected that conversations she was having with a different friend online might be inappropriate. I felt like I was just being suspicious but I also felt like she was being evasive. When I finally brought it up, she accused me of not trusting her and made me feel like I was a terrible person to imply she was being unfaithful.

So in 2014, a little over a year after our kids were born, I found out that my suspicions were correct.  I ended up finding out that she was even more involved with this emotional affair than the last one.  I confronted her and she didn't deny it.  I considered throwing her out, but I was told I couldn't do that by my priest.  I definitely resented her for it though.  She did cut the online relationship off, but only after lying to the other guy more.  He eventually told her off for leading him on.

She also confessed to me during that time that she was very interested in BDSM and wanted to try it out. I did find it interesting as well and we tried an owner and pet dynamic for several months. I couldn't get past what she had done and the dynamic fell apart.

My fault was that I didn't try to get help at that point.  I was just plain mad at her for 5 years.  After these affairs and all the lies, I often couldn't stand to touch her or be around her.  I was hell bent on making sure she knew how wrong she was.

So then 2 years ago, I started seeing a therapist for my anxiety. He used DBT and has helped me to basically change who I am. I'm not upset all the time anymore, I actually have self confidence and control over my emotions.  I've got to the point that I don't feel like I need her to to regulate my emotions anymore.

So to her, about a year and a half ago she had a big emotional break down.  She told me that she was angry about the way I treated her for all those years and that she was in a "holding pattern" to see what happened.  She has talked to a therapist earlier that year, but was done with her sessions.

She has also started talking to a group of friends online.  I have met almost all of them and they know me well.  I know the "leader" of the group well and consider him a friend.  He doesn't tolerate infidelity and he told me that he would stop talking to her if she ever went down that road.

She brought up the BDSM dynamic again about a year and a half ago.  We again engaged in an owner and pet dynamic.  This time with set rules, etc.  I should also say that her current group of online friends also participate in similar dynamics and several are poly.

Last September we got into a fight.  The next day she told me that she had been thinking about it for a while and she decided that we need to get a divorce.  At first I was stunned, then I basically didn't accept it.  I did finally forgive her for her last affair though.  I felt a lot better.

About a month after she first talked about divorce, she told me that she didn't consider us together anymore. That she was free to do whatever she wanted.  She told me she was going to get her own bank account, get my name off her car, and then we would divorce.  She then did nothing about it for months.  Finally she asked when I was going to setup an account for her and get the car title changed.  My therapist told me to not do it for her and let her do that stuff.

I told her that I wouldn't really be helping her to be independent if I did it for her.  She did go get a bank account on her own.  She still hasn't moved her car title to this day.  She told me she was going to save up money for 6 months and then leave.  I knew that she spent far more than she realized and I doubted she would end saving much of anything.

Then in February this year, she told me that she wanted me to stop trying to "win her back."  That nothing was going to change between us and that I need to give up.  I then basically completely backed off at that point.  Then in March she told me that she was going to leave in July and go live with her parents. 

Her plan was for us to get divorced, she would take a few boxes of her stuff, leave the kids completely to me, and she was going to "let life take her where it takes her."  I find reached the point where I couldn't be quiet anymore.  I told her that her plan was unfair, selfish, and unrealistic.  That she was turning me into a single parent and abandoning her family.  I told her that I thought a therapist would be helpful and I would even pay for it if money was her concern. She told me a therapist wasn't what she needed and that she just needed to get away from the family.

She told me that she only had children for the marriage, she also told her friend that she wouldn't have children if she could go back in time.  She also told me that she didn't want to move several times.  That she tried to tell me a bunch of these things.  I bluntly asked her why she didn't just come out and say it. Her answer was that she didn't feel that she could say No, so she said nothing.  That it was my fault because I made her dependent on me.

I found out quickly that she had not talked to her mom at all about moving in with them.  She told me about two hours later that her mom was pushing her to get therapy, just like I had.  Her mom also kept using "we" statements by text.  My wife got mad about that and said this was all about her.  She acknowledged she was being selfish and unfair but also that she didn't care.  That the world was going to bend to her will this time.

Then in mid April, her parents called her and said that they couldn't support her decision and said she was not welcome to move in with them. She basically blew up and has sworn to never talk to them again.  She told me that she is burning bridges now and that she will continue to do so.  Her friends online haven't been much help, several have even encouraged what she has been doing.  Side note, at least three of them have diagnosed mental health problems and only one actually manages it.

So forward to last month, I have still been seeing my therapist. He said he can't diagnose her, however, she is showing the signs of Borderline Personality Disorder.  He recommended I read a book called "I Hate you - don't leave me."  So I got the book and have read over half of it. Along with articles online.  All I can say is, holy crap!  The book describes her actions almost perfectly.

Some of the statements in the book are things she has said almost verbatim. That she is dead inside, she doesn't feel anything, that she has no purpose in life.  She is very afraid of rejection, even just perceived rejection, to the point that she has self diagnosed as having Rejection Sensitive Disphoria.  She has big mood swings and becomes angry quickly.  She has taken basically no responsibility for her actions over the years and basically says she did these things because of me.  She used to self harm.  She definitely doesn't entertain logical arguments if they conflict with how she feels.

So overall she has diagnosed herself with ADHD, RSD, and anxiety but also refuses to even consider going to a therapist.  Even though she says we are not together, she still sleeps in the same bed with me, she still showers, undresses etc. in front of me.  Still calls me her spouse.  Basically acting as though we are married, just nothing physical between us.  She hasn't shown any signs of actually preparing to leave in months again.

I just really don't know what to do.  On one hand I feel terrible that she likely has BPD and won't get help.  On the other hand, I am concerned about her mood swings and how it effects me and the children.  I obviously can't force her to get help but I also don't know how much longer I can live like this. My therapist called it "being in purgatory."  I do have enough resources financially that I could take care of my kids without her being around. So I feel like maybe I should slowly push her out.

Any similar experiences or help would greatly be appreciated.  Her statements and actions seem so contradictory.  She wants to leave but doesn't do much to further that end.  She wants independence but her idea.to achieve that was to live with her parents.  She wants to not be treated like a child, but then acts like a child. 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[kells76]

Hi Dur1156, welcome to the group. Glad you reached out for support... there's a lot going on in your life.

First of all, am I tracking with you correctly, that you had twins born in 2013? So the kids are 9 years old now? (I typically post over on the "conflicted/family law" board, because my DH has two kids, now teens, and their mom has many BPD type traits. So I try to join in on posts on this board, when I see that there are kids involved.)

So much of what you've described rings true to members here -- unfaithfulness, lack of boundaries especially around sexual situations where "rules" are needed, "flying monkey" friends who support dysfunction, talking a lot about doing something but not following through, actions that really don't seem to match up with spoken words, being an adult parent who is more interested in adult relationships than parenting.

So forward to last month, I have still been seeing my therapist. He said he can't diagnose her, however, she is showing the signs of Borderline Personality Disorder.  He recommended I read a book called "I Hate you - don't leave me."  So I got the book and have read over half of it. Along with articles online.  All I can say is, holy crap!  The book describes her actions almost perfectly.

Really glad you are still seeing your therapist. When there's a pwPD (person with some kind of personality disorder, whether diagnosed or not) in our lives, there's no such thing as "too much support". These are emotionally intense and draining relationships. Our self-care, regulation, and stability skills have to be 110%. And your T sounds wise and made the appropriate call -- he can't diagnose someone he isn't treating, yet it is OK for him to recognize patterns of behavior and educate you about a plausible reason it's going on. That matches up with our approach here -- it's less important whether or not the pwPD in our lives has an "official" diagnosis or label or not. What is important is that whatever they're doing is an identifiable constellation of traits and behaviors that impacts us negatively. So our priority is building skills and tools to most effectively cope with those traits/behaviors, whatever they're called. It just happens to be the case that "BPD" is an effective descriptor of a certain grouping of behaviors/traits, which points back to what you're seeing: not taking responsibility, words and actions not matching, blame, low executive function, unstable and chaotic relationships, impulsive and/or self hurtful behaviors.

I just really don't know what to do.  On one hand I feel terrible that she likely has BPD and won't get help. 

Yes. You've gotten to the core of the issue -- for a pwBPD to make meaningful changes, she has to decide to do something really difficult, which is to see that she is doing hurtful stuff. Because BPD is a shame-based disorder, it means that the one thing that would be most helpful (therapy) is the one thing that is the most difficult for them to do (have someone shine a light on their behaviors). While it's not impossible for a pwBPD to seek and adhere to treatment, it is not a given, and you're right, she has to want to do it for herself. Nobody can externally make her do it. She may have to hit "rock bottom" herself to have that moment of insight, and the hardest part of watching is that rock bottom can be really, really far down for some people.

On the other hand, I am concerned about her mood swings and how it effects me and the children.

You're on the right track to be concerned about how her choices and emotions impact you and the kids. How have they been doing with Mom? Do they have a counselor too? Having a BPD parent (whether diagnosed or not) does have a big effect on kids' development, so it is critically important, as you sort through a healthy way forward, to prioritize their well-being. Your spouse is an adult and can make her own decisions about her mental health... or, sadly, not. Your kids, though, are children, and need you to be the stable parent who supports them.

I obviously can't force her to get help but I also don't know how much longer I can live like this. My therapist called it "being in purgatory."

Again, yes, I'm glad you're understanding that you can't make her change if she doesn't choose to. Though I also understand how heartbreaking it is to realize that. I know this cannot be what you wanted for your marriage or your family or for her. I really feel for you and I'm sorry this is happening.

I do have enough resources financially that I could take care of my kids without her being around. So I feel like maybe I should slowly push her out.

Interestingly, on these boards, there is often (but not always) a sex difference in how BPD parents approach parenting. Dads typically "talk a big game" about wanting to be involved, but drift away to be interested in other relationships, and don't actually follow up on their parenting time. Moms typically get really enmeshed and controlling with the kids, seeing them as supportive extensions of themselves, and try to elbow out and erase the other parent. Your situation is a bit atypical in that your kids' mom seems more interested in drifting away to pursue other adult relationships. Just like you realized about how you can't make her get treatment if she doesn't want to, an analogue is that unfortunately you can't make her "be an involved mom" if she doesn't choose to. The choices in front of you (nutshell version) may indeed involve "letting" her choose the level of parenting that works for her, and that may look like Mom moving out, pursuing other relationships, and seeing the kids for one day a month. That being said, if she is unstable, then it may not be the worst thing in the world for the kids to have one good day a month with Mom where she can mostly hold it together and have a good time with them, versus being with Mom 80% of the time and being exposed to her instability, self focus, and unpredictability for long stretches of time.

I'm glad you're assessing your ability to support yourself and the kids if she were to move out. I hope that provides you with one less thing to worry about for moving forward.

Her statements and actions seem so contradictory.  She wants to leave but doesn't do much to further that end.  She wants independence but her idea.to achieve that was to live with her parents.  She wants to not be treated like a child, but then acts like a child.

All I can say to that is Yes, that sounds really typical.

So, all that being said, have you consulted with any lawyers yet? I think I'm tracking with you that you are at a point of being done with the marriage -- is that true? If so, it's very typical to consult with a couple or a few lawyers to understand your options and likely outcomes in your area. Initial consultations can range from 30-60 minutes, more or less, and can be free or low cost, and typically do not require a retainer. Apologies if you know all this already!

The reason I recommend that is because you will want to protect your kids as much as possible whatever the future relationship between you and your kids' mom looks like -- whether separated, divorced, or other. What I will say is that sometimes there is a "pivot" with moms where for a long time they talk about "just leaving" or "letting you have the kids" or whatever, but if you don't move forward on that, and try to "make them feel better" or "be fair" by "letting them have the kids", they can do an absolute 180 and "pivot" to being enmeshed with the kids and weaponizing them against you. Sadly this is not uncommon. So I'd recommend seeing what lawyers in your area think about your situation, and taking it slowly and methodically for now. Consider documenting your level of involvement with the kids (bedtime, school events, bathtime, making lunch, doctor appts, etc) -- better to have that info and never need it, than need it and not have it.

Anyway, this got long, so I'll wrap it up by saying you're definitely not alone in your situation, and you're wise to realize that you can't make your kids' mom change, so protecting and supporting your kids will be a huge priority for you moving forward. Grieving what could have been, both for your family and your relationship, and moving towards accepting "what is" may also be a big part of your future, and I'm glad you have the support of a therapist as you navigate all this.

Let us know how you and the kids are doing, whenever you have time.

[Rev]

Hi Dur,

I just wanted to say welcome. Kells has said alot of really great and important things here.

So in support, I will "listen" to the exchange and offer my encouragement as you do the work of sorting out what sounds like a rather taxing situation, to say the least. Kudos to you to being willing to grow through it all.

Hang in there.

Rev