Scapegoat estranged - Holiday questions

[Notwendy]

Notwendy,


1. Even though I don't feel "shocked" by my mom's walking away with my dad (literally in life and figuratively in the dream), I do think that I have struggled to accept this reality for many years. I gave my mother every benefit of the doubt despite knowing better based on evidence) and continued to hope that some connection with her is real... and I'm now afraid that I must accept that there is no there, there with her either. I cried briefly yesterday about this.

It's difficult and confusing because: does she love me? Did she also disinherit me?

I mean, if someone walked away with your primary abuser, you wouldn't then text them "happy birthday," right? OTOH, before walking away with him she saw me clearly, looked at me deeply and supportively, and did not reveal my hiding space.

To be clear, I know she's abandoned me. Anything I receive will continue to be only scraps and crumbs - as it always has been.

I might have written these exact words about my father. I think it's easier to understand the disordered person than their partner who plays both sides of the fence. My father was the only parent who acted like a parent to me, and he did some caring things, but when push came to shove, he'd discard me if my mother asked him to, allow her to be abusive to me and pretend it didn't happen. How does someone appear to love you and allow that? I don't know.

I understand why he didn't stand up for me. He couldn't do that. In order to be able to stand up to me, he had to be able to stand up for himself, and he couldn't do that.

Like you, I assumed I was the scapegoat and other family members got treated better than me, and that they were happy together when I was not around them. The actual truth is that, this isn't true. My mother is verbally and emotionally abusive to everyone. If my father didn't comply with her, he'd be subjected to that. It may appear that your mother is being treated better, and your sister, I will suspect that isn't true- they are more enmeshed and in denial. They go along with him. He financially rewards them. Your mother is terrified to not go along with him but to help her not see that, she also acts nice to you as a form of personal absolution and alleviate any guilt.

The hard part of being disowned when my father died was not knowing if it was his idea or my mother's. I didn't want his money. I wanted to know he loved me. There were some personal possessions of his that anyone who knew me would have known they would have meant a lot to me to have them. I had thought my father knew me well enough to know that. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. But none of that mattered to him because the only thing that mattered to him is my mother.

Whether or not it was his idea is probably not a consideration as his will was her will. There was only one will and it is hers. It didn't matter what he thought or wanted, because, only hers prevailed. They were one person. Your parents probably act as one person too.

[seekingpeace2day]

I might have written these exact words about my father.

Like you, I assumed I was the scapegoat and other family members got treated better than me, and that they were happy together when I was not around them. The actual truth is that, this isn't true.

NotWendy,

I'm so sorry that you have been through this. Thank you for your sharing your story and what you have learned with me.

Indeed, my mother (especially) and also my sister (intermittently) have been victimized by my father. They are in denial and go along, as you suggest. My sister and father are enmeshed, and he has always favored her dramatically over me. She is a GC. A decade ago when I shared that our grandmother had told me how differently she and I were treated as kids and that everyone knew it, my sisters' eyes bugged out of her head as if the thought had never crossed her mind.

All that said, when I look back, my sister and I have been so separated and triangulated that I can't say I know her at all. As kids I was the angry, sullen, severely emotionally abused, belittled, demeaned, humiliated, and resistant adolescent - and she was just much easier to control. We never hated each other; we just weren't close. I'm 4.5 years older and was much more gifted, and I overshadowed here. She was also more enmeshed and easier for my father to control. Because we haven't had family holidays (by that I mean I haven't been included, but they are all together) more than a few times in 30 years, I really don't know what they are like at all, other than the image they portray (perfection, of course, from my father) and my fears.

In terms of potential for the future:

Even knowing that genuine relationship will not be possible, I do wonder what the possibilities for any kind of peaceful exchange might be. I also wonder if I will be disinherited, for many of the same reasons we all wonder- the final rejection, the total discard or just not being understood. I'd like to reconcile with my sister, but her husband is like my Dad and more than happy for my familial struggles (my father treats him like royalty). I love them all very much, I just hate the situation. Even my father has not been 100% horrid, just 100% unpredictable and sick (disordered). (As my first T asked 30y ago, "Do you love it when someone punches you in the nose?")

Last, you are 100% correct. My parents function as one person.

This is why I fall back on staying hidden and safe, at least for now. I am safe, where I can observe.

[Couscous]

She has stayed attached and accepted the gifts and not contacted me, after all.

Are you saying that you feel that she should go no contact with your parents and refuse gifts out of solidarity with you, or am I misunderstanding something?

Could her lack of contact with you possibly be a case of her waiting for you to make the first move, while you are waiting for her to do the same, or do you have reason to believe that she has cut you off?

In my family, after a while we gave up inviting my scapegoat brother to family gatherings when he suddenly began to stop coming and began ignoring our attempts at communication. We assumed that he had cut us off, and at one point he actually told us he was cutting us off. I then come to learn from him that we weren't supposed to take any of that seriously, and that he fully expected us to keep attempting to contact him regardless of his response or lack thereof, and that he had felt rejected by us because we stopped reaching out to him. So perhaps there's a similar misunderstanding between you and your sister.

[seekingpeace2day]

Are you saying that you feel that she should go no contact with your parents and refuse gifts out of solidarity with you, or am I misunderstanding something?

Could her lack of contact with you possibly be a case of her waiting for you to make the first move, while you are waiting for her to do the same, or do you have reason to believe that she has cut you off? 

There is a possibility for misunderstanding, certainly. And even though I am the scapegoat, there is (must be?) I suspect acknowledgment or some level of awareness that I am senior/more mature than my GC sister. (I do not know this, but it's pretty obvious to me, !)

Even though this possibility exists, that she is waiting for me... all of the risks of contacting her - her enmeshment, codependence with my parents, she could have thrown me under the bus, etc - are real. And, she is not available for real communication or validation, either, because she will never cross my father. She is in total denial.

Thank you.

[Couscous]

And, she is not available for real communication or validation, either, because she will never cross my father. She is in total denial.

Oh yeah, validation may well be something that you will never get from her. But you don't actually need her validation. You can give your inner child that yourself.

It is possible that she is in a disloyalty bind, and that it's against family rules to have a one-to-one relationship with you. But this is something a family counselor could help ascertain, if she is willing to attend with you. 

[seekingpeace2day]

One wonderful thing about the anonymity of this forum is that we can "get right at it."

I bear some responsibility for the rift between my sister and me. I was so enraged and jealous at the favoritism shown to her family and new son (and the discard to us), and her allegiance to our father, that I contributed to the NC between us. I don't remember the exact sequence of events, and who went NC with whom, but we are both partially responsible. Then her enmeshment with my father ruled any reconciliation out (to me - I was so pissed!).

A few stories:
-One Thanksgiving 7 or 8 years ago, everyone was to eat with us, in our town. My father was irate with my sister (there was an error with a hotel bill, and he accused he of stealing $ and did not speak to her for 6 months). So, my father did not travel and the rest of us had Thanksgiving without him. I asked her to consider this again, and she told me she would always want to be with "Mom and Dad."
-When she moved to a new state 6 or 7 years ago, I wanted to be the first to visit her. So we were to travel there for Thanksgiving. Both my wife and I were ambivalent about the trip and waited until the last minute. A month or so before Thanksgiving, we called to finalize details and my sister acted like we had no plan - she had made plans to visit my parents.
-Another uncle (who is enmeshed with my sister and betrayed me) held a small family reunion at my request in 2015. Our son and GC son were nearly 2 years old. To that time, my father had spent 3-4 months with GC son over many visits, and 12 hours with my son over one visit. I was so triggered. My father had groomed my sister be the "executor" of his credit card, pay for dinner etc. He made a big show of it. (It's hard to explain but this was humiliating to me. My sister has accomplished 1/50th of what I have in life, and that used to be my role.)
-For my parents 50th a year or two ago, I tried to coordinate a surprise Zoom with my parents and the grandboys. I sent a polite email to my sister and BIL. They declined, "We can't make that work..." because they were at the time driving to be with my parents for the anniversary celebration!
-I could go on and on, but here is a different side: when we were kids, my father refused to loan me his car, so I would have to pay for a rental car during college. (In my neighborhood, this was absurd and abusive to me.) One night I met my sister out, and she parked blocks away and walked because she was so ashamed that she was driving one of my parents' cars! On another family Zoom 2y ago, she referred to "My brother and I" in an inclusive way. (I said nothing and stonewalled her.) And when I've referred to myself as the lightning rod, she did not disagree.

She just goes along with my parents of this as if it is her right (or duty?). She says things like, "He just hates his father..." referring to me. When she was unemployed, she helped my father prepare my grandmother's estate, and my father bought her a very expensive engagement ring to say thank you!

At the same time, I know she looks up to me, and she has never expressed NC with me.  Over the years, we've said I love you and I support you and all that. She's just very GC and entitled, but also my sister and I love her. I also believe I am in a "leadership" position and that she would be civil if I contacted her.

Last, even if I did reconnect with my sister, none of the other factors would change, and she could be used to try to charm me by my parents. She is 100% part of the sick system.

Thoughts?

[Couscous]

Thoughts?

I really think the Emotional Incest will give you lots of food for thought.

[seekingpeace2day]

I really think the Emotional Incest will give you lots of food for thought.

The 1991 version? Please let me know and I'll order it now.

Also, I assume the implication is that my father has been emotionally incestuous with my sister? Yes, I believe this. Or is there also more that you think I will find helpful?

[Couscous]

The 1991 version? Please let me know and I'll order it now.
Or is there also more that you think I will find helpful?

That's the one. I'm pretty sure you'll find the entire book to be a page turner. Enjoy!

[Notwendy]

One wonderful thing about the anonymity of this forum is that we can "get right at it."

I bear some responsibility for the rift between my sister and me.

At the same time, I know she looks up to me, and she has never expressed NC with me.  Over the years, we've said I love you and I support you and all that. She's just very GC and entitled, but also my sister and I love her. I also believe I am in a "leadership" position and that she would be civil if I contacted her.

Last, even if I did reconnect with my sister, none of the other factors would change, and she could be used to try to charm me by my parents. She is 100% part of the sick system.

I think it's both with your sister- possible to have some connection but you know she's enmeshed with your parents. I can share what I have done with people in my parents' circle. It may not be the only way, but it's one way.

It's more of an LC than NC. We have a relationship but I remain aware that- anything I say to them is likely to be reported to my mother. Their impression of me is influenced by what my mother tells them. If they, themselves, are not toxic people, I am cordial, polite, but I do not share personal information. It's probably a bit like you'd interact with your boss or an employee if you are the boss at work. If you are on friendly terms, you might discuss the latest sports team you both like, but you aren't going to share personal or intimate details of your life or other co-workers. You aren't in the same "circle" at work.

It keeps the door open. It's interesting as a couple of people in my mother's circle have seen enough of her behavior and have become closer to me. I am still very careful about the situation, but there's a possibility your sister may also have enough of the dynamics, maybe she will, maybe she won't, but a cordial relationship leaves the door open for that if it were to happen.

On your part, you need to let go of the material jealousy and resentment to your sister. What your sister has been given may look nice but it is a golden cage. Any money or gift from my mother comes with obligation. I don't accept any money from her. I grew up with obvious favoritism as well and also understand the jealousy but I can see the deleterious effects of favoritism on my GC sibling who struggled to break away from that enmeshment. You may find it hard to see, but I think it's better to not be the GC .

Letting go of resentment is a part of the 12 step process. I had to do this too. My sponsor had me write a list of all the people I resented and it included my parents and people connected to them, and all the things they did that I resented them for. We then discussed the emotional "cost" of having this resentment and I could see where my feeling resentment only involved me. They were "taking up space" in my thinking and meanwhile, they are miles away not even thinking about me at all. Letting go of resentment isn't about giving them a free pass or not feeling your feelings. Acknowledge the feelings but once you realize that it's not serving you to dwell on them, you can do less of that and you will feel a lot better emotionally when you do.

[seekingpeace2day]

I think it's both with your sister- possible to have some connection but you know she's enmeshed with your parents. I can share what I have done with people in my parents' circle. It may not be the only way, but it's one way.

Thanks for sharing your story and approach. My question/concerns are what is best for ME - total individuation, or maintaining some connection with such a sick system. My intellect tells me it is both. I need the inner healing, and THEN, possibly, some superficial contact to the extent possible given their illness. Even cordial holiday cards would be a major improvement.

And even more important, what about my wife and son? My ties to my sick family have caused so much hurt in our family due to my own trauma, and they are more important to me than my FOO. Last, there is also the issue of timing, as you said. I can work on myself for now, and still decide to contact them in the future.

I’ve read half of the book Couscous recommended, Emotional Incest, and one idea that resonates is reconciling with my sister now, to reduce hurt in the future (when parents die). That makes sense to me. But any genuine relationship is impossible I believe; she is too enmeshed and immature, and my own healing fantasies could be too strong.

These relationships are so difficult! My own confusion and rage and push/pull behaviors over decades have of course complicated things further (and made things worse for me). This forum is a great place to realize and share that in a safe space.

One possibility is that I could make amends my sister. It would be heard to do this with no expectations (and previously I was too resentful to make amends!), but I could try. I’ll discuss with my sponsor.

BTW, I really liked what you wrote about staying hidden and my fear of being hurt. Although that is indeed how I described things, it’s more that in the dream I was watching them act their destiny, from a place where I could safely observe. Even though I so much wanted to contact my mother I did not - I said nothing/“let her go” and she walked away - and everything was OK. Does that make sense?

On your part, you need to let go of the material jealousy and resentment to your sister. What your sister has been given may look nice but it is a golden cage. You may find it hard to see, but I think it's better to not be the GC .

Letting go of resentment is a part of the 12 step process. I had to do this too.

Yes! What a great reminder. I’ve completed this exercise (perhaps ACA yellow book?) and will review. My sponsor also said to pray for my, eg, sister to have everything I want for myself - peace of mind, joy, love, etc - and that this will heal resentments. I never did this, though - will begin today. Did you ever try it?

[Notwendy]

My question/concerns are what is best for ME -

And even more important, what about my wife and son?


One possibility is that I could make amends my sister. It would be heard to do this with no expectations (and previously I was too resentful to make amends!), but I could try. I’ll discuss with my sponsor.


My sponsor also said to pray for my, eg, sister to have everything I want for myself - peace of mind, joy, love, etc - and that this will heal resentments. I never did this, though - will begin today. Did you ever try it?

I think we all have different situations and so the best ( and that might mean least of the worse )solution that works for us is one that fits our situation. It's important to consider family members and have boundaries. If your wife and child should not interact with your family, that is a factor too.

The "amends" part of the steps is specific.

Step 8: Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

Step 9: Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others (include you in this)


Sometimes it's not in the best interest of you or others to make amends directly. The most that is asked is to be willing to do it ( if it were possible). You might get to the point where you are willing to make amends to your sister, but doing so might not be in the best interest of you, your wife/child, or your sister and in this case, you aren't expected to cause harm or distress to anyone.

Yes, I have heard of the pray for good things for the people you feel resentment towards. I haven't specifically done that but I am clear on not wanting harm for anyone. I think it's wrong to wish that. I think in general I would wish for peace and joy and good things for everyone. I have not specifically mentioned the people I would resent- so no, have not done that.

[Methuen]

We're re-doing our own wills right now, and I did think of asking my sister to be one of our son's guardians in the event that we die. (That is hard for me to believe!)

When we did our Wills when our children were little, we selected "chosen family" to be guardians for our kids.  There was no suitable "blood" family that we were comfortable with for this job.  Especially not my parents (ie mother).  Our children are the most important thing in our lives.  This is an important decision, should it ever have to be enacted on. It is important to be 100% comfortable with your choice, and when you say "this is hard for me to believe", I'm wondering if that is the little voice at the back of your head questioning the idea, or if it is a sense of humour being expressed...

Our "chosen family" took on their role with gusto, and were the best choice for our kids.  We were completely comfortable knowing that should we come to a catastrophic end, our kids would be in great loving hands that shared the same life values that we have.  Our kids are now grown up, and although one of the guardians passed tragically and prematurely from cancer, the other one is still involved in their lives.  In fact, one of our kids is taking her new partner on a special trip to meet this person.  Sometimes, in dysfunctional families, chosen family can take the place of blood family and fulfill certain responsibilities in a more responsible, reliable, and unconditionally loving way.

I would not do this for your sister, thinking that it would honour her and improve your relationship with her.  Also remember that if she is enmeshed with your parents, they would have a greater role in raising the child(ren).

To this day, our kids have no other family, besides my uBPD mom.  I am thankful our friends agreed to responsibility of being "guardians" when we made our Wills. They were the only "family" our kids have ever had a relationship with.  My H has a sister, but there was no way we were going to entrust our kids to her.  That wasn't the life we wanted for them.

I think the important questions to think about are, "what would be best for the child?"  Who are you most comfortable with leaving your children to grow up with?  Who would be the healthiest choice for them? Who would put in the dedication to help them reach their potential in your absence?  

[Couscous]

SP2D, have you ruled out the possibility that you were your mother’s Chosen Child, or was your sister the Chosen Child of both of your parents?

[seekingpeace2day]

Sometimes it's not in the best interest of you or others to make amends directly. The most that is asked is to be willing to do it ( if it were possible). You might get to the point where you are willing to make amends to your sister, but doing so might not be in the best interest of you, your wife/child, or your sister and in this case, you aren't expected to cause harm or distress to anyone.

Yes, I have heard of the pray for good things for the people you feel resentment towards. I haven't specifically done that but I am clear on not wanting harm for anyone. I think it's wrong to wish that. I think in general I would wish for peace and joy and good things for everyone. I have not specifically mentioned the people I would resent- so no, have not done that.

The reason you cite - harming my sister or myself, along with my resentment, is why I did not make amends to my sister the first time I worked the steps (yellow book). Same thing with my parents - they had no capacity or interest in hearing amends, so I decided to make behavioral amends instead. (My sponsor taught me about behavioral/unspoken amends). 

I prayed the well wishes for her earlier and will continue to do so, and report back.

I will also say: something about the ACA relapse/cold illness/time in bed/reflection of the past week has been, I hope, healing. I am not yet recentered - but I am back meditating and today did some non-dominant handwriting with my inner child for the first time in a long time. I also spent some great time with my son, which is best of all!

[seekingpeace2day]

I would not do this for your sister, thinking that it would honour her and improve your relationship with her.  Also remember that if she is enmeshed with your parents, they would have a greater role in raising the child(ren).

I think the important questions to think about are, "what would be best for the child?"  Who are you most comfortable with leaving your children to grow up with?  Who would be the healthiest choice for them? Who would put in the dedication to help them reach their potential in your absence?  

Methuen,

I feel like you read my mind regarding the reasons I would have been trusted this responsibility to my sister. That being said, she is in our old version of a will (as is my father, a high-level financial professional, as a financial manager. It’s been six or seven years, and our values and relationships have changed, which is why we need to update things.

Perhaps even more important, I so appreciate the thoughtfulness and your edits in terms of key questions to ask. These are right on time. Especially the last question Dash who will work with him to help him achieve his true potential.

Part of my fantasy regarding my sister is this this could be she, but that fantasy seems like an easy way to get burned. She is a child herself; I know this.

I need peace in my life, and I am committed above all other people to my wife and son. At the same time I also would like some sort of improved relationship with my family of origin. I have my own responsibilities for the mess, too, and it might be possible to smooth things over with my sister. I truly do not know what is possible. Another possibility that I have not mentioned is that my sister turned on me because her husband has been “promoted” in my place, which would of course be very good for all of them. It’s all very difficult as you know.

[seekingpeace2day]

SP2D, have you ruled out the possibility that you were your mother’s Chosen Child, or was your sister the Chosen Child of both of your parents?

Couscous,

Thanks for recommending emotional incest; I’ve read about nearly 3/4 of the book.

I’ve always known that I was the chosen child of my mother. In fact, I was once told that my father‘s rage toward me was triggered by the way my mother looked at me when I was a baby, before any of my conscious memories. Of course this was only speculation from a family friend, but it speaks to your point.

At the same time, my sister is the chosen child of my father. And because my father controls 100% of family activities, he punishes me and rewards my sister, and my mother goes along with it.

Given my fathers narcissistic wounds and incurable insecurities, it makes total sense that he would view me as a threat and be jealous and resentful of me. The facts that 1) I am differently gifted than he, and 2) despite his profound abuse and belittling all of my accomplishments I have been highly successful, could perhaps piss him off to no end. I don’t know. I do know what my dreams have told me, which is that he is angry and out of control. I don’t know if my mother has also discarded me, but maybe it’s a good thing that she walks off with him (instead of staying with me) in the dream.

It was helpful to read about being the chosen child; and I have a lifetime of evidence that I was my mother‘s chosen child. She even told me as much at different times.

Chosen child is an issue you’ve considered deeply. How do you think this impacts my situation, and path forward in terms of my own healing and family relatIonships, based on what you’ve learned about me in this thread and others? Thank you.

[Methuen]

I am glad my response was timely.

I need peace in my life, and I am committed above all other people to my wife and son. At the same time I also would like some sort of improved relationship with my family of origin. I have my own responsibilities for the mess, too, and it might be possible to smooth things over with my sister. I truly do not know what is possible. Another possibility that I have not mentioned is that my sister turned on me because her husband has been “promoted” in my place, which would of course be very good for all of them. It’s all very difficult as you know.

You mentioned that you would like some sort of improved relationship with FOO.  Just remember that putting them in your Will for any reason will not improve your relationship now. A healthy relationship isn't conditional on something like this.  It sounds like a purchase of approval. Has your relationship with your father been a good one?  Has it always been healthy?
If your father is a financial manager for your son, will he make the choices you would want, or will he do what he wants for your son?  Just because he is a financial whiz doesn't mean he is in the best position to make the best choices for your son. There are lots of financial whiz's out there, but that doesn't mean they are the best choice for your child's care.

I haven't read the whole thread here, and I only remember your story in parts, but it seems to me that there was plenty of drama, and your father didn't especially treat you well.  If I remember it correctly, you are the scapegoat, and your father takes your sibling and their kids on trips, and then tells you about them.  Am I mixing things up here?  Are you sure he is the best person to name as financial manager in your Will?

We left our friends (chosen family) in control of everything, because we had complete confidence they would 110% try to honour our values in raising our children, and they would always put the interests of the children in front of their own, and they would raise our kids as we would want them to be raised.  It gave us huge peace of mind. 

Based on what I think I remember of your story (involving your dad), do you have confidence he would do this for you, and for your son?

[seekingpeace2day]

I am glad my response was timely.
Based on what I think I remember of your story (involving your dad), do you have confidence he would do this for you, and for your son?

No, my father is disordered and a severe emotional abuser to me, consistently but not 100% of the time. He says he loves our son tremendously - and I believe he loves the IMAGE of grandsons - but he has not seen our son in >4 years and sees the other grandson frequently. Although I love him greatly, I do not love being punched in the face. Clarifying our intent and who we count on to help in what way is one reason we need to update the documents.

Thanks for the reminder that custody of our son is not about healing relationships with my FOO.