The Art of Disengaging

[DC Daniel]

Incredible thread and stories here. I think everyone has their own truths when it comes to BPD, but one absolute is that in order to heal, we MUST, and I mean we MUST focus on our role within the cycle and healing ourselves rather than getting sucked in to the BPD world of anger and shame.

[PDQuick]

Just for the sake of discussion, and to know where Im coming from, I loved the opening post of Gertrudes. It was this followup that got me scratching my head:

eeyore - it doesn't make sense (as emotions often do not make sense) to feel guilty because you prolonged your pain.  Then you are just prolonging your pain even further.  We were stuck - it seems that this is quite normal for the tens or hundreds of thousands of people who have had trouble extricating themselves from a BPD relationship.  If you talk about people who are stuck in all kinds of abusive relationships, the numbers are millions.  If we have acted in ways that millions of others have, then I would say our behavior was normal under the circumstances.  We became enmeshed - baited by a skilled craftsman who knew who to build a really alluring web.  Who could have resisted.  We stayed in the hope that it would return to the fantasy it was in the beginning.  We couldn't leave b/c there was too much mental and emotional manipulation going on.  We were stuck and it wasn't our fault.  We eventually found the tools and the courage to become unstuck and move on.  We should be proud.  There are those who can never get away from an abusive relationship.  I try to look at it as a big experience in life's journey.  I don't always succeed.  There are times I still feel anger.  But it is not pervasive. 

The bold and particularly underlined part is a victims thoughts. I should know, I held onto them for years.

[gertrude]

PDQ - thanks for your words - you are preaching to the choir, however.  I have got to be honest here PDQ and tell you that it feels like there is a lot of projection happening here.  I am going to defend myself - from the beginning of the break up I accepted responsibility for allowing myself to be treated like that.  I had moments of anger against my ex - sometimes intense anger - but I also knew it was pointless, that in my humble opinion, he was just being a lion eating its prey.  That was what he did and there was no way he was going to become a vegetarian.  I was angry at times, but I am not bitter - never felt bitterness.  Do you or have you felt bitterness?  It feels like you are trying very hard to prove something. 

One good thing I can say about my ex - despite the fact that he was mean as a snake and very controlling, I don't think he fooled around- he didn't get drunk - he held a very powerful and well paying job.  The funny thing about him was that he had a very strong moral base - when it came to obliging the rules and regulations imposed upon us by governments and society.  But emotionally, he could not apply that morality into treating people with consideration.  That was his shortcoming.  Otherwise, he would have been an incredible man.  He just did not know how to do it.  Most of the time, I give him a complete pass and wish for his happiness.  Occasionally, there is anger - and there was a flare up of intense anger when I learned just recently how badly my daughter had been affected by him.  But that's gone now also.

You and I diverge a great deal on how we see my progress.  I think I'm going to go with my own judgment on this.  Thanks anyway.  Carol

[KateCat]

I haven't read every post in this meaty thread, but I want to say how much I value PDQuick's rigorous views on our own responsibilities in destructive relationships. Is there any other line of reasoning that will reliably protect us, our children, and others from our future complicity with charming and vulnerable people who are also--so clearly--"mean as snakes?"

For me, admitting that I had a clear part and that that part had a moral element to it is the insurance I need to remain unwavering in the future. The thing that I didn't really understand was myself, rather than the mentally ill person in my life.

[Kenneth]

The funny thing about him was that he had a very strong moral base - when it came to obliging the rules and regulations imposed upon us by governments and society.  But emotionally, he could not apply that morality into treating people with consideration.

There's a little cognitive dissonance in all of us.

[KindSoul-AA99]

I like Gertrude’s post, and subsequent comments… they are very apt…

We all know we are in the midst of a very unhealthy relationship, with too much pain …

The affection in beg 2 yrs received does not begin to compensate for the pain the relationship causes - losing myself, self respect and dignity, and the loss of the people we love, because of the control, & isolation that she had started to weave… seemed very manipulative…

Gertrude's Quote:

"We became enmeshed - baited by a skilled craftsman who knew [sic-who] how to build a really alluring web.  Who could have resisted.  We stayed in the hope that it would return to the fantasy it was in the beginning."

Knowing when s/t is wrong:

•   I knew after 1+ yr, but certainly after 2 yrs when she suddenly blew up over petty things…   I left very troubled… but came back later as I felt sorry..!

•   she was very very sensitive… over the slightest innocent comment, would feel slighted or abandoned or ashamed.. shame over money (even though these were her own words ) - being a miser or frugal - was shameful to her, but I never made her feel that way.. 

•   she seemed to get defensive or “.. it is over…”, and would “turn off” quickly which I found disconcerting & abnormal for a woman..!  Pls comment

•   Her 24 yr daughter - a lot of enmeshment, and boundary issues, D’s expectations of puppy love influencing her mother to blame me for rel break-up… and storminess

Nothing was enough – inconsistent behaviour:

•   Not enough - my time every weekend, going out to many activities, …

•   and there were many projections and put downs,

•   not recognizing her own behaviour to not eat and not spend money on lunch or traveling frugally, not eating while traveling, not letting me (her own bf ) eat, and then turning it around & blaming me as pre-emptive strike

•   trying to make me believe I was not giving enough gifts, when in fact I was very generous, and

•   we had agreed on sharing exp for rest, travel, etc,.but suddenly changing expectations, and stories, & comparing me to her 24 yr daughter’s courtship bf, and saying he paid for everything..  so she gave up on rel !

•   many of these thoughts + beh I don’t understand…!

Ending it:

U r right - ending the rel is very very difficult.  Our hearts have not caught up to our intellect, and I believe that some kind of emotional and mental manipulation keeps us stuck in the rel… somehow I try to consider myself lucky, but s/t find myself secretly hoping for a re-engagement or feeling guilty (as Kenneth said), … that the undying love she professed was real and would overcome her & her D’s problems.

I knew I must leave the relationship in order to save myself… and get real happiness or will be sucked into a bottomless pit of need, and selfishness. I let her believe she was mostly ending it... while she went overseas… in order to minimize the anger & distortion campaigns towards me, but they surfaced when she came back. Who wants to be with s/o like that… clearly she doesn’t love me…

Emotions are erratic and powerful - sad, guilty, pain, hurt, anger, feel sorry, but also glad she came along and changed my life…

I feel also guilty that through my NC I feel I am abandoning her…and I feel guilty for not being able to help her. I feel guilty for the things I've said to hurt her back even though I was speaking truthfully about her projections & pettiness & selfish traits… I feel guilty for being envious of whoever she's with now. I feel guilty for still wanting her--even though I know that being with her would be more pain

But like Kenneth, I realize, I did very little wrong in the relationship—and need to move on.

TO Gertrude, SashaSilver & bkay:

Hope is always a factor… but there are too may hurtful memories, … I am so glad I had a good new career, and had a strong sense of self and self-esteem, and valued myself, … I am keeping my sights open for a more open & honest person with integrity.

[Kenneth]

Thanks for sharing, Confused!

she seemed to get defensive or “.. it is over…”, and would “turn off” quickly which I found disconcerting & abnormal for a woman..!

There were a few times when my uBPex acted in such ways. I remember one episode specifically. I hadn't heard from her in a few days and I was worried about her since she was having medical issues. Her distance infuriated me--and I sent her an email to the effect that it was "very unfair" that she was shutting me out. She sent back an angry message: "I've been busy! I'm sick of this! I don't need it anymore. It's time for me to move on."

It was a very odd, puzzling, and reactionary reply--one that stopped me in my "non" tracks--and I ended up apologizing to her! She ignored me for a few days, and I wind up apologizing!

In any case, I don't know if this behavior is "abnormal" on her part--but it is, to some degree, and especially in retrospect, indicative of larger, more deep-seated problems in the relationship.

[growing_in_grace]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.  I am on day four of NC. I found this post so helpful. I moved away from my BPD partner last February, but there has always been contact, sometimes positive and sometimes deadly toxic. More recently there has been more toxic time than anything positive. I got help here before and I know once I keep coming back and reading and learning my heart will catch up to my intellect. At least I can see again that the light at the end of the tunnel is not a train.

Gracie

[oneflewover]

Disengaging is an art.  You paint the layers or begin sculpting the wood, little by little until you have achieved your masterpiece - A commitment to your own health and happiness.

Hey there miss gertie!  I just love the above analogy because let's face, disengaging really is an art.  And what we pour into our art piece is what we get out of it.  Nothing can be more truer than that.     

Perhaps my masterpiece shall always remain a work in progress.  But as long as it keeps getting more interesting and aesthetically pleasing, I can continue to do the work.

  This is lovely.  I know you had thoughts of tapering off here some, but don't...I always enjoy reading your insight. 

OFO

[1bravegirl]

Boy am I glad to run across this thread!

 

I too have to agree with Carol that it does sound like PDQ has a personal axe to grind.  I'm not sure why he chose to sharpen it on you Gerdie but that he did.

It seems to me that everyone understood what you were trying to say except PD and it was criticism that might of been given with constructiveness in mind, but due to the sour tone of the wording, it came across as mere noise.  And the points that PD were trying to make fell short of doing the most benefit to the readers. 

In my opinion, your posting was more encouraging and well thought out and understood than many others thus far and your points were well received.  Taking it apart bit by bit I personally feel was a complete waste of energy.  You did not claim the victims role here but one that is moving forward and staying hopeful and feeling your emotions instead of stuffing them as so many do only to come back and haunt you when you least expect it.

Your expressions were beautifully shared and so appreciated by the staff that they put a connection to your thread for more to read.   I ask you, of all the posts to critique, why this one, why now?  When we that are trying to move forward  were built up by these words and to put a negative light on something that for so many was a good read, is simply a waste of good energy.   No disrespect PD but your intellect could be used in so many other upbuilding ways.  Its one thing to question a persons reasoning but this felt like it went beyond that and didnt feel good at all.

I am scratching my own head as to why we as Non's that have come so far in our fight for freedom, to get to this point as Carol has and then to be questioned as to the validity of her feelings,  is very discouraging indeed.    ? ? 

But we do not hold any grudges here, especially at this point with all that we have been through.  I could see if you were trying to write a book on BPD and disengaging and PD was the editor! But come on!

We though, being the positive natured individuals we are, will continue to try and see what we can learn from these experiences.. the good and the bad.  and use all knowledge to our benefit, either to apply it or reject it and keep moving forward.

Thank you Carol, I completely understood the posting and applaud you for the courage you continue to display..  And thank you PD for keeping us thinking..

Sincerely, 1bg

[gertrude]

Hi confused - I can see in your words how much you tried to make the relationship work and how difficult and painful it has been for you.  It is so strange to me that we can be so unhappy and yet find it so difficult to end the relationship.  It really doesn't make much sense, but unfortunately, that is the way it has been for so many of us.  I think it's very helpful to list all the problems you had with her.  It helps to reinforce the need to stay to away.  I think you will be just fine in due time.   After we realize that something is really wrong, we do start thinking about how we can get out of the relationship.  We just don't have the ability to do it at first - or at second or third or even at the fifth or sixth time.  It is so bizarre to be planning how to end the relationship at the same time that the thought of ending it leaves one shaking.   Stay strong confused.

Kenneth - I also found myself apologizing for things that I didn't do - sometimes I apologized when he was dead wrong.  I cannot begin to tell you the revulsion I felt after that.  Like I've said from the start, without our self respect, we have nothing.  That is what the BPD does not get.  They leave us raw, without face.  You cannot put someone in that position.  People should always have their dignity.

Hi Growing in grace.  I feel honored that my words can bring you some comfort.  When I first came here, I thought I would be the success story - and everyone was so kind and patient.  And then he would walk out on me and I would crying on the boards and then he would come back and this was repeated more than half a dozen times in three years.  And each time he came back, he was a little colder, a little meaner.  Actually, the first couple of times I took him back, he seemed really grateful and was quite nice to me - for a couple of months, and then his behavior would deteriorate again.  Eventually, he stopped being grateful.  I could never tell if this was just the true progression of his behavior, or if he lost respect for me for taking him back so many times when he knew how badly he had hurt me.  It seems that the toxicity does get worse over time.  Please try to stay NO CONTACT.  It will enable you to put all of this behind you that much sooner.  

oneflewover - you are such a gem of a human being.  I would love to be your friend.  Thanks for your kind words.  Carol

[gertrude]

Hi 1bravegirl - I know you have been through a lot.  It is inconceivable how their self absorbtion can trump even our need to be with our dying loved ones.  But you know bravegirl - it is just the way it is.  We have all pretty much agreed that they are incapable of seeing beyond their own needs - even in extreme situations.  There must have been a reason you chose the name brave girl.  I know this has been hard for you - yet you come across in your posts as rational and strong.  I think with regard to the RO - the Court would need to order him away from the apartment.  Otherwise, he would most likely have a right to be there.  If he fights you for it, would you be able to easily find another place?  Keep me posted.  I definitely want to know how it works out.

Thanks so much for your support.  I am quite alright with all of this - actually enjoying it and finding it very stimulating and challenging.  I cannot wait to get home and get to the site to see what's come up.  We all need to be challenged from time to time.  It keeps us a bit more honest.

I love a good debate.  You take care bravegirl and let me know what happens with the apartment and the RO.  Carol

[1bravegirl]

Thanks so much Carol,

Your absolutely right. Their illness has no limits.  Extremely difficult situations make it even harder for them to rise to the occassion and they usually will rage due to lack of coping skills and fear.

So maybe that is why I never really let it get to me to the point of having it stop me in my tracks.  Ive always known that he was sick because not only is he BPD but he had that terrible car crash when he was 17 y/o and his head split open like a lemon and it damaged the personality part of his brain.  So anyone that knew him before said he was a different person and had become like a snap case.

Unfortunately thats the only part I ever knew and he covered it up some, but even before I married him I seen serious flaws but I could not shake him no matter how hard I tried. I was so young and vunerable and just didnt have the mental strength or wisdom to make better decisions. Talk about lacking experience...  As weak as that sounds, that is how I see it.  Now I understand why he was so relentless in his pursuing me.  I didnt know why he wouldnt take no for an answer..  I thought he was just so crazy in love with me. 

I had no clue to the years of misery that would lie ahead.  (24 to be exact.. yep slow learner im thinkin...) If only... if only..  So thats why the previous post was a bit bothersome.  Yes we allow it but in the beginning if you have absolutely no experience with anything like this and your immature and dont know your butt from a hole in the ground,     then you are in a world of trouble. Even if your older and have had some of lifes experiences, I would still argue that it would be difficult to see this coming.. to this degree anyway...It isnt so cut and dry as some would argue.   

And by the time I realized what I was dealing with, it isnt easy to walk away from it as much as you would like to just run away, there are many factors to consider.  It makes me think about that book "men are from mars and women from venus.."

Maybe we just speak two different languages in explaining what we endured and why we endured it.  Speaking of us non's here.  Yes at some point we do allow it but we do not have the full understanding of what we are allowing and how we are enabling their illness to control us and manipulate us.  It takes time to recognize just what you are dealing with.

And when you are married, there are the commitments that you made and certain obligations you try to live up to.  It could be years into it like in my case before you truly understand that he probably will not get better and I had to make the choice to save myself.  How could anyone really know that just going in unless they were experienced in disfunctional relationships and did some homework and learned from their mistakes.  It took me growing up and being strong enough inside and having enough guts and being sick and tired of being abused and just having my fill of it and having the love die enough, to be able to finally say Enough.  I dont deserve to be abused and hit and cussed at and belittled and controlled and im not going to put up with it anymore.  But it was a process.  I had to get to this place before it was real enough to carry the intent through to fruition.

If I did it just because someone told me to or because I felt pressured by my family, it wouldnt of lasted.  I had to understand deeply enough that I was worth more than being abused.  As silly and stupid as that sounds, I dont know how else to put it. 

You always know in your heart that you dont deserved to be abused but thinking it and doing something about it are two different things..  And whos to say why it takes some longer than others to figure out its time to get out.

Its very complex and is individually based on a boatload of personal circumstances that only we can attest to.  So im very grateful for this board and all the feedback so we can educate each other and come to that place of enlightenment sooner than later so we can make wise decisions and stop the violence and that senseless BPD dance that we dont even know the steps to.    Thank you, everyone for all your wonderful input and encouraging words.  Keep working toward the goal together. 

We will be successful.   And thanks Carol for following my R/O and that struggle.  I will be at the courthouse tomorrow and fill out those papers again cause your right.  He does have rights here in my house since he is on the tenent agreement but thank God he doesnt know that.  But if I get that order again I dont have to worry about him trying to push that issue anyway..  Im sure he will find something else to push  or pull or whatever..   He can have fun pushin and pullin by himself.  im outie!   

Goodnight all and thanks for listenin...  much love  1bravegirl   x

[Skip]

A senior member once told me (as I was struggling through my journey) – when you truly understand, the answer will be ever so simple.  My answer here is still a bit complex so I know I have a ways to go.   

There are some different perspectives discussed inthsi thread and that is to be expected.  Perspective can differ in those coming from a 20 year old relationship and those coming from a 4 year relationship (example).  Perspectives  also change during the healing process.  I know my own perspective on “recovery”, “BPD”, “my partner”, and “my role” evolved significantly over time.  I summarized it here several times as a member - it was helpful for me to see my own progression in thinking and how it differed from others and where t was the same.


In the beginning I was very much oriented toward what "she had done to me"  trying to understand why someone could be so cruel to someone that loved them so deeply. By studying BPD and journaling , I could actually start to understand what had driven her – which was very different than what I thought was going on at the time it happened.  This was fraught with painful questions such as “was she evil”,  “did she ever really love me” , “did she hate me now”, etc.  Randi Kreger defines this as the outward looking phase in her first book – when we look for the answer to the problem in them.

My thoughts shifted over time to the realization that I, myself,  was in a  wounded state before the relationship started and I was vulnerable to such a relationship happening (inner directed phase). This was not at all obvious to me. But I kept after it and I began to realize that I was using the relationship help heal another wound... this is partially why I looked past the red flags. The other reasons were just  naivety or maybe wishful thinking.  I could now see how this lead to the intensity of the love – my wound, and her BPD – a perfect storm.  This was not about "blame" - it was really about understanding what not to do going forward to recreate the same result.  Without this, I would be fearful of my own skills to identify a healthy next relationship.

Later my thoughts shifted to what I'll call my "less than simple" recovery process and coping skills.  In my case, I decided to go NC and I stuck to it – period.  I exercised, I journaled, I got on antidepressants, and I enrolled into therapy.  Nonetheless, I had very high anxiety in the beginning, I ruminated for a long time, I developed PTSD and the horrible nightmares that are characteristic of it, I eventually slipped into a severe depression.  Later I could not engage in another relationships in any meaningful way – I lost touch to all those “wonderful emotions” inside of me that I had experienced in the relationship (during the good times), etc.  I’ll be the first to say, I did what I had to do, and at the same time,  I need new tools and style if I encountered another crisis so that it won’t be as traumatic for me to process. 


So, these are just additional perspectives to add to the many beautifully stated things already in this thread. 

The goal of disengaging is to a reach level of detachment, understanding, indifference, acceptance. Knowing our goal is ever so important in achieving it.

The processes of disengaging are many.  But we should be try to not stray too far the pathways of the conventional (proven) grieving processes if we can.   We should avail ourselves of the conventional (proven) tools such as antidepressent medications (to help stabilize us in a rough and tossing sea) and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy that shows us the "faulty thinking" that everyone develops under these damaging conditions and how to resolve it and set yourself free.


Anyway - some thoughts 

~Skippy

[1bravegirl]

Thanks Skippy,

That was very enlightening and good, practical information.  It is important to understand we all have to develop the tools along the way to make good decisions for ourselves and to learn from our past mistakes if at all possible.  Even with hindsight being 20/20, it still can help us to look at other area's of our life and understand why we made the choices that we did at that time.  Like you referred to being in a hurtful place and needing to feel that new relationship to the point of not wanting to see the red flags. 

That makes sense since it played into yourn psychie and what you thought you needed at the time.  We can so easily blind ourselves to things or convince ourselves that things will be different when our intellect knows otherwise.. but we push it down away from our thinking process and do what feels right and not what is smart.  if that makes any sense.   

I really appreciate your words that are from the heart and your personal experience.  As I do everyone's words here on this post. 

Your right though,  it is important to get many different perspectives on the matter and continue to learn and understand each other male and female so as to not judge as I know we are not trying to do here but to continue to be enlightened with understanding and be able to connect with more people and have deeper empathy.  As one man described empathy so eliquently.. he said..   "your pain is what I feel in my heart"   Can we say that we understand and listen to each other like that?  Now thats not saying take on the persons pain and try to solve their problems. but to truly show another that you personally value them and care about them that deeply that you can actually feel their pain.. That can have a profound impact on another human being and actually give them the confidence and feeling of self worth to go on, just knowing that someone actually cares.  What greater joy can we experience than to make a difference in anothers life like this...

If you want to touch another persons heart and show them that they are loved and supported, displaying empathy as we listen to each other and truly hear what the other person is saying will be such a therapeutic connection that can have a lasting impact.  And isnt that what this board is all about.   Listening and sharing and supporting and showing love and respect to each other in our plight and as we walk an unknown path of uncertainty..  sometimes lacking the confidence to carry on another day.. But then just at that point, you see a posting that gives you the strength and the courage to go on and a reminder that you are not alone and others do care and you can do this and its so liberating and impowering and refreshing..

So again, I am so very grateful for all the comments here and insight and experience that has been shared and how much it has helped so many friends.      We do welcome all takes on this struggle as a way to understand more and progress more in our journey to help ourselves and in turn help many many others.. 

Thanks again Skip..   that was very well put.. 

Sincerely, 1bravegirl 

[Kenneth]

This was fraught with painful questions such as “was she evil”,  “did she ever really love me” , “did she hate me now”, etc.  Randi Kreger defines this as the outward looking phase in her first book – when we look for the answer to the problem in them.

This made me wonder what might be going through a BP's mind during a lot of this. Do they think, however briefly, "Am I evil?"; ":)id I ever really love him/her?"; and/or ":)oes he/she hate me now?" Many of us might say, Well, they really just don't care. Depending on the severity of the BPD, who knows? But something's going on underneath the facade they show us.

[TroubledNYC]

Hi Gertrude,

I'm new here to this forum. I'm on my official third month broken up with my BPD (soon to be) ex wife. I wish I could be as resolute as you and some other folks out here are. truth is, I'm really miserable without her. Pathetic, I know, since much of my life was walking on eggshells, but there were great things as well as the awful, expolsive , rageful things. But, aside from a phone call from her a month ago because she was pissed off about some dumb thing, there has been NC and I'm not intending to break that NC. I'm trying to move on and trying to take it day by day.

I feel blessed that I found this site as I don't feel quite so alone or so freakish for having a partner of eight years just trun around one day, turn me into the enemy and leave the relationship as if it never happened.

J

[KateCat]

I wonder if coming to the synthesis-of-understanding of which Skip writes isn't doubly or triply challenging for those who bring children into the relationship with a BPD. Whether a person's children become similarly enmeshed with a complex and charming individual; or whether a strong-willed child is baffled and rebellious in the face of a parent's involvement; or whether there is outright estrangement between parent and child due to this new relationship, there must be a sort of "family plan" of disengagement that takes place in stages and spurts, with not everyone on the same page at the same time. I would imagine that eventual healing involves family reconciliation phases as well.

[twistedmarriage]

This incredible thread posted years back really helped me today...for though I have chosen to stay in my marriage for now I still need to disengage so that I may heal myself and my wounds so that I may help my kids develop into healthy emotional beings.

[Misty39]

I had stopped being on this board because I thought I had a handle on things, and thought he was getting "better". Not so, obviously. All the things you said resonate with me. Detaching is what I need to work on now. NC is not possible due to parenting young children, but I can do a better job. Keep communication about the kids only. Drop off and pick ups could be at neutral public places or through a third party. I could do a much better job of not letting him in my life, in my head, in my space and in my heart.

I am printing this off, putting it next to my bed to remind myself that I need to look after me and that this is a journey...and I"m not alone.

[Let it Be]

I wonder if coming to the synthesis-of-understanding of which Skip writes isn't doubly or triply challenging for those who bring children into the relationship with a BPD. Whether a person's children become similarly enmeshed with a complex and charming individual; or whether a strong-willed child is baffled and rebellious in the face of a parent's involvement; or whether there is outright estrangement between parent and child due to this new relationship, there must be a sort of "family plan" of disengagement that takes place in stages and spurts, with not everyone on the same page at the same time. I would imagine that eventual healing involves family reconciliation phases as well.

  The relationship between my BPDdil and my gd who is her step child seems to be enmeshed already.  There is some sort of protection for the BPDsm going on (secrets that must be kept).  My gd who has gone through many goings and comings of her biological mom's boyfriends (gd was age 2 - 7 when she lived with her mom) seems to want to try to "love them (parent's partners) enough to make them stay".  Of course that will not work and I wonder if some day she will have to deal with her own abandonment issues.   

[newlife3]

 Hi G:

Thanks for sharing your personal experience and recovery. Glad you are doing well! Great thread!

We all know what the problems are re: our mentallly ill ex's, or current partners. Once we can handle the pain of the betrayal of trust and abuse, and know how to take care of ourselves in healthy ways, the real work becomes understanding what made one vulnerable to being in the r/s with the BPD.. Its not about blaming ourselves, but a process that takes a lot of work and courage. This clear knowledge about ourselves is the only thing offers healing and emotional freedom..Without that knowledge about ourselves we are at risk for repeated unsafe r/s..