Once again... is this a re-engagement?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

The uncertainty exists in your mind Jalk. You are having problems with all of this because you have not made up your mind yet that she is not going to be a part of your life anymore. Half of you still wants her, and half of you doesn't. More so, the reality actually is that you want half of her, and don't want the other half. You want the good parts, and not the bad parts. You cant accept her in full, and you can't have her in parts, so where is the solution?

You feel, or at least you write, like she has this power over you to pull you back in. Well, that, my friend, is complete, utter BS. You scream "re-engage" or foul at any contact she has with you. You look for the deceit, instead of seeing it as it really is. You look for the harmful intent of bringing you back into her life, instead of understanding her, and her emotions, and seeing that all she is doing is trying to fill a need of her own.

If I was pressuring you to jump off of the proverbial bridge, would you consider it? If you were absolute in your thinking, you would say no. If you were not absolute, you would not talk to me. If you were wanting to, but scared of what would happen, you would take every one of my calls, and scream at everyone that I was trying to talk you into something and to get me to stop. This is what you are doing.

Jalk, you have been on here 7 months. You have started 212 threads now. You have 1070 posts. That means if you only posted in the threads you have started, you would only have 4 responses to each thread. You are more concerned about crying out, than understanding the disorder that affects her, and your role in the dysfunction. You have yet to see your role in this, and are constantly blaming her for trying to get you to jump off of that bridge. You control your actions, she doesn't control them. Its time to start making decisions and implementing them.

It tickles me that you expect this woman to respect boundaries, when she has never shown you that she ever has. There you go dreaming again. This isn't about what you want, it is about accepting what you are dealing with. I want a million dollars, but I don't have it. So do I fault the world for it, or do I accept that I don't have it, and take steps to try to reach my goal? One is productive, the other isn't.

About your moms situation. OK, fair enough, you forgot that you had her on the list. They obviously couldnt get in touch with you, so they called her, and she went and picked up your mother, and brought her home. A nice gesture that helped you out, and got done what needed to get done. As for the intent? If you were absolute, who cares, so why worry about it? She wants you back, maybe, you want her back, no, so no issue there. It is hers to deal with.

Jalk, try understanding the disorder, and the dynamics that play out in these relationships. She is not evil, or a demon, so quit thinking of her that way, it just keeps you as the perpetual victim. She is a fear based woman, trying to fill her needs. You have shown yourself as a willing supply. She will come to you to try. You dictate this, not her. You are teaching her how to treat you, and you are lending yourself to your own victimization.

[PDQuick]

The uncertainty exists in your mind Jalk. You are having problems with all of this because you have not made up your mind yet that she is not going to be a part of your life anymore. Half of you still wants her, and half of you doesn't. More so, the reality actually is that you want half of her, and don't want the other half. You want the good parts, and not the bad parts. You cant accept her in full, and you can't have her in parts, so where is the solution?

You feel, or at least you write, like she has this power over you to pull you back in. Well, that, my friend, is complete, utter BS. You scream "re-engage" or foul at any contact she has with you. You look for the deceit, instead of seeing it as it really is. You look for the harmful intent of bringing you back into her life, instead of understanding her, and her emotions, and seeing that all she is doing is trying to fill a need of her own.

If I was pressuring you to jump off of the proverbial bridge, would you consider it? If you were absolute in your thinking, you would say no. If you were not absolute, you would not talk to me. If you were wanting to, but scared of what would happen, you would take every one of my calls, and scream at everyone that I was trying to talk you into something and to get me to stop. This is what you are doing.

Jalk, you have been on here 7 months. You have started 212 threads now. You have 1070 posts. That means if you only posted in the threads you have started, you would only have 4 responses to each thread. You are more concerned about crying out, than understanding the disorder that affects her, and your role in the dysfunction. You have yet to see your role in this, and are constantly blaming her for trying to get you to jump off of that bridge. You control your actions, she doesn't control them. Its time to start making decisions and implementing them.

It tickles me that you expect this woman to respect boundaries, when she has never shown you that she ever has. There you go dreaming again. This isn't about what you want, it is about accepting what you are dealing with. I want a million dollars, but I don't have it. So do I fault the world for it, or do I accept that I don't have it, and take steps to try to reach my goal? One is productive, the other isn't.

About your moms situation. OK, fair enough, you forgot that you had her on the list. They obviously couldnt get in touch with you, so they called her, and she went and picked up your mother, and brought her home. A nice gesture that helped you out, and got done what needed to get done. As for the intent? If you were absolute, who cares, so why worry about it? She wants you back, maybe, you want her back, no, so no issue there. It is hers to deal with.

Jalk, try understanding the disorder, and the dynamics that play out in these relationships. She is not evil, or a demon, so quit thinking of her that way, it just keeps you as the perpetual victim. She is a fear based woman, trying to fill her needs. You have shown yourself as a willing supply. She will come to you to try. You dictate this, not her. You are teaching her how to treat you, and you are lending yourself to your own victimization.

[GCD145]

I have to agree with PDQuick, here, Jalk.  All your posts are about her.  None are about you.

Let her go, man, and start the process of moving on with your life.

GCD145

[LifesaDance]

PDQuick - that is one of the clearest examples and description I've heard about the victim role. Thank you.

The way I see it, if I walk in my buddies house and he punches me in the nose, I am a victim. If I walk in again and he hits me again, I am a victim of my own doing, BUT I will probably have a 'come to Jesus meeting' with him, set some boundaries, whether he agrees or not ... .and verbalize the consequences. Boundaries crossed, consequences enacted.

Say what I mean. Mean what I say. Don't say it mean.

Prior to going to Florida with my exBP, I set some boundaries with her. I asked her to let me know what I said. She parroted me. I then asked her to tell me what that meant to her. She sounded like she understood where I was coming from. I told her the consequences were that I would leave; that I would be done with the games.

She stomped all over them, crossed them, and took things even further. I changed my flight and went home early, joined this forum, realized the consequences wouldn't be enough, so I filed a Restraining Order. She was not happy when she returned, had spread her line of BS to manipulate friends and family AND the judge.

Today I am going to let the Sheriff administer any more consequences.

My motives are not vindictive, out of anger or frustration. My motive is that I am no longer a rudderless boat, blown around by anyones wind.

I own my yeses and own my no's.

Say what I mean, Mean what I say. Don't say it mean.

Anyone can do it, especially with the support here.

Martyrdom ... .Martyr-dumb

[Skip]

I realized a few months out of the relationship that I had adopted victim thinking.  It started in the last 18 months of the relationship.  She did some pretty hurtful things, and I loved her, so I just took it.  After a while that breeds victim thinking.

One day, driving in my car I thought "Man Skippy, you are a victim. You walk like a victim.  You think like a victim.  Time to "man up".  Truthfully, at the time, I might even feel like a victim if I had gotten PDQuicks post above.

In the coming weeks, when a victim thought popped in my head, I would stop and chew myself out.  It was kinda funny. "I'd say things, stop being a wimp, stop being a pansy, Skippy is a douchebag, and a few other locker room favorites"

It stopped.  I don't think it took two weeks to make significant progress.  It was gradual - but clearly I was telling myself to get a grip.  I laugh about it now - I had never chewed myself out before.  

After reading a dozen books and working this place for a while, I realized that this is called "mindfulness".  Stepping out of our own emotional cocoon and looking at ourselves as an outsider - looking at what we are doing.

This is good reading - it may help - https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=90041.0

It stops when we stop it.  Good mental health is like good physical health - discipline.

 

PS: PDQ, the convenience store example - bad visual  

[PDQuick]

Look back through my old posts, I was the exact same way as you, Skip, and all of the rest. We have to pull ourselves out of our own thinking sometimes.

[truefriend]

I totally agree with Skip & PDQuick... .and remember this board is about finding a healthy YOU. At some point one has to quit sitting on the fence and move forward in their healing... .It's easy to get stuck.

[jalk]

Ok... .yes, I am a victim. I am a victim of unacceptable behavior from someone I trusted. I feel betrayed, lied and cheated on. I have been out of this 8 year relationship with a woman I fell totally in love with for 8 months. What have I been doing in those 8 months? Crying (early on), taking up hobbies again such as music which I love, joined the local gym, get together witrh friends twice a week and family once a week, painted the living room and worked on the house... .this just as starters. I have upcoming motorcycle lessons in April. I'm not sitting around the house moping and having a pity party. My friends feel I have made great strides forward. I had been NC for 6 months and felt strong. There are mutiple stages of grieving... .I waffle between a few of them but one stage I am not in is acceptance. PDQ, sounds like you are there and I am truely happy for you. Just know we all grieve at a different pace and different ways. I am not strong enough to see her or hear from her and not let it effect me in some way. That way is usually anger. This relationship has cut me to my core and even when my wounds are entirely healed, I am sure I will have scars. These scars will be my reminder of how careful I need to be next time around should there be a next time around. I know what my mistakes are and what I did wrong when I first got involved with this woman and I learned. I am a victim, unfortunately. I wish I had never met her.

[TonyC]

yea i feel ya... .we could be or  well are victims... .but you know... i will speak for myself... i allowed every part of it... .did i want? to no!... .i think my heart kept me wanting to ... my brain was always saying ... .tony do you need this... .and some how my heart... snowed me into thinking she has changed a little... or i change me a little...

so for me... after some deep thought... she was BPD... and 5 other things... .

i realised what part i played in the game... .i forgave myself... for being blind... .

i forgive her... she is what she is i tried her doctors tried... .crap everyone tried... .

i put an end to the madness, and the puking, and the general malaise... ,i deserved  what everyone else seem to have... happiness... so yea she stole 7 years of my life... .

but now... im making up... for poor decisions... and poor judgement...

when you can see there is better things waiting for you ... you will put this behind you... and move foward... .

tony

[jalk]

Thanks Tony C. I do feel the same to. I have been able to forgive in the past. I had been married to an alcoholic at one time in my life. That was a lot of verbal abuse. Many times I had said, 'if you do not get help for this I will leave you.' But of course, I stayed. I stayed way to long. People say I am too patient. I think I am to stupid sometimes. I started doing things for myself and started to feel good about myself and decided it was time to leave that relationship. My philosphy on that relationship? Live and let live. Since, my ex alcoholic spouse died, at a young age, from alcohol related illness. I felt really sad. I had still remained friends after we divorced... .I know acceptance can be achieved, I know I am able to forgive, I am not there yet is all. Better days are ahead.

[Im.okay.now]

hmmmm ... .those were great posts guys !

Jalk - at some point i felt exactly like you ... .felt like a victim ... that is until i realized that i was a victim of my "own" doing ... .and that the anger that i carried and directed at my ex was actually "me being angry at me" for not doing what i knew i had to do ... .which was letting go. Everything i interpreted as her "doing to me" , i was actually doing to myself. I made a lot of progress once i came to that realization. 

[turtlesoup]

hmmmm ... .those were great posts guys !

Jalk - at some point i felt exactly like you ... .felt like a victim ... that is until i realized that i was a victim of my "own" doing ... .and that the anger that i carried and directed at my ex was actually "me being angry at me" for not doing what i knew i had to do ... .which was letting go. Everything i interpreted as her "doing to me" , i was actually doing to myself. I made a lot of progress once i came to that realization. 

I imagine it must take some time to get there. I can see how my BPD (and probably NPD) treated me and how I should have left much sooner but I do feel that thru her techniques I was pretty much tricked, my trusting and giving nature was very attractive to her. My run in only lasted 2 years but I still must look at why I allowed myself to be treated so shabbily. Its just that every day I remember something new and how, what I overlooked and was even sometimes blamed for, was simply emotional abuse on her side. I remembered this morning how one day we were sitting on the sofa and one of my fillings fell out, very painful, I was in pain and showed her, she looked down at it, and told me I was interupting the film she was watching. 0 empathy. I have a feelings its going to take my brain some time to shift thru all these things and work thru, but I wish instead I could just forget the whole thing.