Is it Help or is it Rescue?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Just started to think about this -- posted about it on another thread -- and thought I'd open it up for more discussion.

It's an energy or chemistry that flows two ways, doesn't it?  At its weakest, one person looking for rescue, the other who tries to match that desperation by being a rescuer.  Or at best, one dealing with life and one who assists while honoring the other's capacity as a whole person.

 

How do you tell the difference between help and rescue?  How do you give or receive help without it becoming codependent?

[innerspirit]

Just started to think about this -- posted about it on another thread -- and thought I'd open it up for more discussion.

It's an energy or chemistry that flows two ways, doesn't it?  At its weakest, one person looking for rescue, the other who tries to match that desperation by being a rescuer.  Or at best, one dealing with life and one who assists while honoring the other's capacity as a whole person.

 

How do you tell the difference between help and rescue?  How do you give or receive help without it becoming codependent?

[GCD145]

If you figure it out, please let me know!

I would guess it has to do with mutuality.  Partners take turns helping each other, giving and receiving in more or less equal measure.  Doesn't need to be 50-50, and doesn't need to be exchange of comparable services, but in general the relationship needs to be mutually supporting.

In unhealthy, codependent relationships, the balance is completely out of whack.

Thoughts?

GCD145

[TonyC]

i think offerein help is extending a hand and they put thier hand out... and take it

i think rescuing is when you deadlift carry them on your back... .and you put them down and they go back ... .and you repeat...

[innerspirit]

I think that would be the ideal, not necessarily 50-50 as you say, GCD.

I struggle still with the idea of "what if it can't be mutual?" -- I mean, I did take the wedding vow of in sickness and in health.  

Finally it was a member of the clergy who advised that X was continually breaking the vow to honor me, to honor the marriage.  And resisting the means to acknowledge and improve his mental/emotional health.

I had to let go of the idea that I would convince others -- I have to accept that they may think I just up and left.  I no longer need to spin my wheels in an effort to convince, as X would say, "The Court of Popular Opinion."  

i think offerein help is extending a hand and they put thier hand out... and take it

i think rescuing is when you deadlift carry them on your back... .and you put them down and they go back ... .and you repeat...

Well said.

[dados76]

help... needs to be asked for... or its just rescue...

theres not anything... in my power (w/in my boundaries) i wont do to help my partner... but hes got to ask for what he needs... i cant guess... and im not going to try...

[2010]

Help or rescue = same outcome. I am beginning to understand this as a problem for me. When helping *someone else* takes the focus off of me- it's a problem.

Helping someone else supports my inner construct of ego defenses- that is; I am a worthy person and I get feelings of worth by helping others. In reality, I wish they would all help me. I fend off feelings of worthlessness by proving to others (and fooling myself) that I dont need help.

I often have helped my own therapists with their problems. Because of this, they let go of their professional boundaries and use my session for themselves. All it gets me, is back where I started-frustrated and unsure of what's the way out.  I have no idea how to envision a future without being of use to someone. The past has shown me that being of use means being used. I cannot effectively set boundaries when I invest myself in someone elses problems. Their problems become mine.  It is my personality defect.

Consequently, I am left spinning in the breeze when any relationship ends, as they always do because it was truly one sided.

I am filled with shame and loathing that I couldn't do better or find a solution or fix what needed to be fixed. I know now how I got this way- but the way out of this is a mystery.  Every self-help book that I read talks in terms of letting go and letting God or uncovering my secret power, etc. but my identity is the "good child" and as such, I am narcissistically good- but only when helping someone other than myself. 

I do believe at this point, that I am addicted to the drama. I am addicted to the guilt and I am addicted to the shame.  Because of these addictions, I am also addicted to the rage I feel when I am unappreciated for my efforts.

Because I was pulled into problem solving as a child in order to survive- I find my personality is constantly searching for solutions to problems in adult life. I perceive these as survival issues; a life or death situation. What I failed to realize, (until now) is that the only life or death situation that I need to worry about is how to get away from other people's problems and not feel insignificant or alone or without purpose.

[MyNascence]

Such a hard question.

I think for me, helping is something that helps.  It improves the situation in the long run.  For example, teaching someone to fish.

Rescuing enables.  It helps in the short run, but in the long run makes things worse.  Giving someone a fish (helping them become more lazy).

That's how I have to think about it.

Sometimes helping doesn't even appear to be rescuing at all.  For example, letting an adult child fall rather than financially bailing them out.

That's how I decide... .as for the codependency aspect... .I've got nuttin'.

[Nutts45]

How do you tell the difference between help and rescue?  How do you give or receive help without it becoming codependent?

I came across this  and thought it not only explained a little bit about being interdependent and a bonus mention boundaries... .

In the process of being responsible for one's own health, wealth, and happiness, the healthy, "interdependent" person can cooperatively participate in relationships. To cooperate does not mean to be a door mat, but to be flexible while maintaining appropriate boundaries. Mending actually means being able to engage in cooperative, mutually satisfying relationships, where giving is done freely without resentment and hidden expectations. Healthy people can be themselves, while allowing others to be themselves. Healthy people don't "build walls".  They set and maintain "proper boundaries". Walls create isolation and loneliness.  Boundaries create empowerment.  Healthy people can take life's challenges in stride and deal with problems as they occur.  They perceived themselves to be generally competent.

And of course I lost the website and article while messing around through several windows.

[reneeth]

I am learning to keep it simple, stupid.

helping... .no strings attached

rescueing... .strings attached

I am skipping down the highway of life,  merrily enjoying what ever happens and surrounds me, going about things ... .  last night a friend came up and unloaded a whole lot of pain and anger about being miserable in the relationship she is in ... .I listen and share thought, understood her feelings, expressed that she alone had to decide what is right for her and what she needs to do... .

... .I left without feeling I needed to go and check on her this morning, or deal with it any further.  If she wants to talk more I would do that,  I didn't allow strings to be attached to me from her - to rescue her- and I didn't attach strings to her to become the rescue-er... .

... .today I go on with my life and activities,  I hope it was a help to her, and if she wants help in the future I would be there... .just -no strings attached.

I think helping feels good (empowers the recipient)  and rescueing (tries to empower the helper - sometimes to the detriment of both - it really doesn't empower the one asking for help... .it ego boosts the helper  IMHO  Reneeth

[MyNascence]

Very well put, I hadn't thought of it that way.

[immadone]

To me the difference comes down to respect: In rescuing there is mutual respect for neither party... .in helping there is mutual respect for both.

[Penguinectomy]

I get a different feeling from rescuing than I do from helping.  There's a lot more urgency and drama in a rescue.  When I start to feel that Mighty Mouse vibe (you know: HEEEEERE I COME TO SAVE THE DAAAAAYYYYY!), which I really used to get off on, I try to stop and notice it.  More and more often now I can stop myself from stepping in, just by doing that. 

Real helping makes me feel useful, but there's no anxiety or drama about it, and it doesn't involve presuming that the other person needs me, per se. 

[innerspirit]

(you know: HEEEEERE I COME TO SAVE THE DAAAAAYYYYY!)

Thanks for the vocal!

(makes me think of Dudley DoRight as well... .  sigh ... .)

[Nutts45]

Simple way... .

Non - codependent:  If you help someone you do it without any attachment to the outcome.

Codependent: You are do something but expect something in return.

[foiles]

I think all of these comments are extremely helpful ideas to mull over. 

Just like there is a difference between worry and concern.  I can be concerned about you but if I 'worry' I am causing myself anxiety. 

I think we cause ourselves anxiety or give ourselves to much credit when we are codependent.  Our feelings originate from another person's feelings.  Something we can't control.  So we have a sense of helplessness.  Or are constantly looking and trying to change things in other people's lives. Instead of allowing them to change it themselves.  Then we just keep on doing that and they don't make the changes themselves, so we have to keep doing it, and it never ends.

If we look to ourselves- I like myself when I do such and such because it works with my belief system or I am disappointed in myself when I do such and such... .  Our feelings come from within ourselves.  Not codependent.  We can control that.  We aren't trying to control external people, things, feelings, etc.  Things we can't control.

Does anyone know the like for "The Bridge"?

[JGirl2]

Simple way... .

Non - codependent:  If you help someone you do it without any attachment to the outcome.

Codependent: You are do something but expect something in return.

Here is where it gets confusing for me... .

I'm a helpful person who wants to help my friends and family so usually I say yes when someone asks me for a favor or to help them with something.  I have no strings attached when I help them, but after helping someone multiple times and then one day I call them for help and they say no and then the next time I need help it is "no" again I start rethinking things and strings appear.  I have helped them all these times and each time I need help from them I didn't get it. Now I'm expecting something in return.   Isn't there always some strings attached?

[midgelette]

I think helping when asked is fine. As long as you are helping someone do for themselves. Rescuing is when you do it for them, and it may or may not be asked.

We can not fix anyone else. If they won't put in the necessary work-then we are rescuing. When we enable, we allow them to not take responsibility for themselves and not be accountable. Rescuing can be like enabling.

Sometimes an intervention is needed for someone you love, and is not asked for-but beyond that boundaries and allowing them to take it from there is not co-dependent. Being attached to their outcome, makes us co-dependent.

Just my opinion.

[foiles]

I don't think there are always strings attached; just better friend choices.  At first you may not necessarily know that they won't help you in return, but if it keeps on happening, well it just shows that the other person probably isn't good friend material, probably in many ways but this is just became more apparent than the other ways.  Normal people don't ask for help multiple times, unless there is unusual circumstances.  And if they do, they offer to help back.  

I don't want to be offensive; we've all been here. If you keeps petting a dog that bites you, whose fault is it? If strings appear, I think we need to rethink if our 'help' was for codependent reasons or whether they are friend material in the first place.  Some people are just 'users' and they will try to take advantage of anyone they think they can.  

Also, it depends on what help you're asking for in return.  Is is reasonable or even doable or annoying in some way?  Not saying that to you JGirl, just in general.  

[foiles]

It's interesting you mentioned the intervention midgelette.

Even in an intervention, you make your position clear, your love and concern, and your boundaries.  Usually you say you will help them if they start to help themselves.  Good point.

[midgelette]

For me too-I think that when it comes to helping friends with something, it is a whole different ball of wax. If a friend asks for help and I am willing, and when I need help they are unwilling, I feel just taken advantage of or taken for granted and I would set limits on how or why I help then with something.

Interdependence is when we support each other in life and in our processes. If it is one sided, for me it's an issue that I would look at.

[Nutts45]

two very excellent points... .

As long as you are helping someone do for themselves. Rescuing is when you do it for them, and it may or may not be asked

At first you may not necessarily know that they won't help you in return, but if it keeps on happening, well it just shows that the other person probably isn't good friend material, probably in many ways but this is just became more apparent than the other ways.  Normal people don't ask for help multiple times, unless there is unusual circumstances.  And if they do, they offer to help back