5.10 | Ragephobia, the fear of being raged upon

[Nutts45]

Just because you didn't teleport to your destination doesn't mean you aren't on the right path.

You bursted my bubble...   I know I keep telling myself it took 3 years to get to where we are now, it didn't happen over night.  It will take longer to move forward, because what ever trigger or the core issues will take awhile to figure out.

It is so weird right now... my H is the person I love and know... at least he was went he left to run an errand.

For them, its taking away a coping skill that they use to feel better, so they are going to struggle and feel miserable. You will need to deal with other behaviors as they come up.

I know... just got use to dealing with the other... now I am at a loss... I wish I could just send him to his garage.  I can see it... .H that wasn't very nice... .why don't you go to your garage... .and come back when you can be nice.

[LOAnnie]

That tactic works when you are an adult dealing with another adult in a chosen relationship, but that tactic is not an option for the child of a raging, out-of-control, emotionally and physically abusive parent.  Trying to walk away and protect yourself can get you worse abuse.

I grew up with a very high-functioning but very rage-filled BPD/NPD mother who would act out emotionally and physically at us kids, and I developed rageophobia; I am drama-phobic.  I live alone in order to avoid as much interpersonal conflict and drama as possible; I think I have some avoidant personality disorder symptoms, even, as a result of being raged at so often.

So growing up being screamed at and shamed and vilified and humiliated and punished for just being an imperfect human being by a BPD parent can do great damage to a child and young person. 

-LOAnnie

The cure to healing from ragephobia isn't to ignore the rager - it is to take care of yourself by walking away. When you remove the audience (us) from the rager, you are removing the pay off they get from raging. If the rager then turns on the children, then that is another whole issue that needs to be addressed... .

No one should stay and be an audience to someone who is out of control and raging. NO ONE... .

[C12P21]

UFN, you always post such thoughtful topics that stretch me.  I particularly see myself in this topic.  I am afraid of being raged upon and fight the natural tendency to change my actions  in hopes of avoiding such hurtful behavior.

I hate being raged at and when my exnBPD raged at me, I walked away. He found me in the garage crying like a child. I told him, I cannot take being threatened or bullied in a rage.

It was the last time he raged at me until we broke up, he bottled all his rage inside and saved it for the last day. But part of what happened is this-I quit trusting him and I quit feeling free around him. It just cast a pall over our relationship, I started the eggshell boogie.

Thinking it through I know what it is I hate, when someone attacks me verbally in a rage. I hate it. And I will never tolerate it again, ever. Someone does that to me  I won't hide in the garage crying. They will hear one of two sounds, my door closing as they leave. Or their door closing as I leave.

I am done with abuse.

[Nutts45]

What about the fear of having no fear!

When you reach the point where you are just honest, say what you feel... .because enough is enough! 

All is good about their therapy, progress or life... but you have one concern!  The issues you can't voice not because your scared, but because you know it doesn't matter because they are not there yet.

[Nutts45]

Geez when I saw that the thread was bump up I... read the original post.  But being short on time only responded to the first... not realizing I originally responded in May of last year!

I just clicked on replies to your last post... .now I have to look at which board this was moved to... .

"As fear is based on something that we think may happen in the future, it is clearly a mental process which tries to predict the future - in that sense, the reason of fear is a projection of our mind.

We can be afraid to fall, but once we are falling, we are afraid to hit the ground, once we hit the ground, we may fear we have a bad injury, once we know we have a bad injury, we may fear the pain and the consequences of not being able to work for some time or become disabled etc. So one could say that fear is always based on something that has not happened yet, and is therefore a fantasy of our mind rather than fact. "  Quoted from www.viewonbuddhism.org/fear.html

Well... .I think I answered my own post...

[BoulderCAT]

The cure to healing from ragephobia isn't to ignore the rager - it is to take care of yourself by walking away. When you remove the audience (us) from the rager, you are removing the pay off they get from raging. If the rager then turns on the children, then that is another whole issue that needs to be addressed... .

No one should stay and be an audience to someone who is out of control and raging. NO ONE... .

  Some of you have heard this before, but I think it bears repeating for those that havent heard it yet.

Since my H recovered from BPD, we talked about raging alot. I am going to share some of his insight into it.

First, know he was a major raging guy... awful.

Now, he talks about it.

He says it felt GOOD to rage. Endorphins, powerful, etc. It felt GOOD. He emphasized that. It helped him feel power and in control and he FELT something positive. A high. Somehow, that 'fun' never happened to me, when I was his target

He also said that when someone is dysregulated like that, there is nothing for us, as nons to do, except "save yourselves". That means walk away, get away. We do NOT help the situation by staying. Raging destroys us and our relationships and it feels good, like a drug. WE need to stop enabling it to happen.

  Just wanted to add this to the discussion. It may help someone understand, from a recovered persons POV.

Steph-

My dBPDgf also openly discusses her raging as well (she's in DBT and well on her way to a full recovery). She has said the exact same thing as your H. She has also said that while she is raging she KNOWS exactly what she is saying and in many cases she realizes how utterly ridiculous some of the things she's saying truly are. It's just that when the RAGE begins she doesn't know how to stop. I found this to be very interesting as well.

[OTH]

Omphalophobia- Fear of belly buttons. (had to throw that one in  wink)

I can relate. You never know what is going to come out of there. 

[Cantor]

Hm I'm not sure I fear raging as much as I fear criticism from authority figures!

Maybe authophobia? I guess that could be fear of authors too though... .  

[Shaktipat]

I used to fear rages,  but when I realized that I can only be responsible for my own behavior and that I have no control over others, that stopped. We all have to be responsible for our own actions and respect our own values. I act like a mature, emotionally stable adult,  even if I am the only one doing it.

[Iced]

I probably have Ragephobia at this point and ironically, I am fit to burst with my own anger issues (many of which stem from my experience dealing with the person in my life who had BPD).

I know that the worst that can happen is... .  well... .  nothing.  At least, nothing life-damaging like... .  oh say, dying.

But when I revisit the time where my gut reaction to RAGE turned into what it is now, I can also see where that Ragephobia comes from, too.

Though I certainly didn't die from being Raged at, very shortly after what I call our final confrontation, I literally became ill and ended up needing hospitalization as all the stress from everything triggered a relapse in a previously managed medical condition unrelated to anything psychiatric in nature.

Post-hospitalization, I ended up being put on anti-anxiety medication because between worrying that my friend would kill themselves and feeling shaken up from basically being their punching bag for hours on end (I should have and could have walked away at that time, but my concern for their safety won over) and not having the mental and emotional defenses to stand strong against it at the time, my emotional and mental strength buckled.

During this time, I initiated NC and though things had already gone bad, things went even worse and then the stalking and flurry of messages and notes from everywhere (the I hate you, don't leave mes; the you're a monster, you ruined my lifes; the I hope you're miserable for the rest of your lifes; the you should never be allowed to get close to people and if you get close to anyone i know, I will make life miserable for yous etc) started - first active and then later - years later, passive.

Still recovering from the hospitalization and the relapse, all of that only made it worse and that was when my Ragephobia was ultimately born.  Or rather, Ragephobia in regards to dealing with people who have a tendency to RAGE out of control and without any kind of self awareness and then never acknowledge (to you) or apologize (to you) for it.

When I go back into therapy, this is definitely an issue that I will address with them; I hate this fragility that has developed and I want to be strong enough to be able to handle rage appropriately and without letting my gut reaction take over first.

[krambanan]

I have a bad case of Ragephobia. Always had. Probably since growing up with a mom and dad who always faught and argued. All I remeber is them being angry at each other. Ive never seen people deal with conflict in a healthy way. Ever. Then I meet my current uBPDbf and everything got worse. Now I panic as soon as I even suspect he will be angry or upset with me. And its making me loose all my energy!

[5xFive]

I was reading this workshop and had an ah-ha moment. I am so afraid of the rages. SO afraid that I can’t even stand the television to be loud anymore. Any loud noise makes me jump. But I’ve been reminding myself that the worst to happen isn’t all that bad. If anyone reads this, can you give me advice on how to walk away from the rage without uBPDh feeling abandoned? Is this a boundary that I need to work on?
Thanks.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey 5x5, Yes, it's a boundary issue.  When a rage is in progress, I suggest you remove yourself from the line of fire by leaving the room, leaving the house, etc., as necessary.  Ideally, you give your BPD SO a heads-up to the effect that if you do X, I will do Y.  It's about self-care and drawing a line in the sand concerning what is acceptable to you.  Boundaries protect you; they don't harm the other person.  What your SO may feel (e.g., abandonment) when you enforce a boundary is beyond your control and is his issue, not yours, in my view.

LuckyJim

[SamwizeGamgee]

I came to realize that I only ever told my wife I loved her to avoid a rage, or to placate her so I don't have to deal with the truth.
These days, I can't even form the words "I love you" when talking to her.  I deal inside by thinking "I fear you less" as my baby step towards "I love you."
So, yeah, rageophobia should be a thing.

[Lucky Jim]

I came to realize that I only ever told my wife I loved her to avoid a rage, or to placate her so I don't have to deal with the truth.

Hey SamWize, What is the truth you are trying to avoid?  Maybe it's time to stand in your truth?  LJ

[SamwizeGamgee]

Hey SamWize, What is the truth you are trying to avoid?  Maybe it's time to stand in your truth?  LJ

I am so there with that idea.  The only truth that gets my heart going again is that I have to (or really want to) leave this marriage.  And the truth I'm avoiding in my statement above is that I simply do not love her, nor have I.  I just lied to keep the peace.
Speaking of fear of fear, this brings up what keeps me bottled up - the only thing worse than being married to her, is being divorce from her - where she can use the courts to abuse, and has extreme motivation to retaliate, brainwash the kids, or whatever.  I fear the fear itself.  FDR would be quite disappointed.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Sam,

Ragephobia, in my view, is another way of saying that one is being manipulated by fear, the “F” in F-O-G, which leads to the sort of deflection you describe.

Like you, I pretended a lot in my marriage.  No more.  Now I strive for authenticity.  Operating from my center allows me to hold my ground.  At the risk of sounding trite, being true to myself is my compass.

If my actions correspond with my core, it gives me conviction to say, “Damn the torpedoes; full speed ahead.”  And believe me, there are plenty of torpedoes in the aftermath of marriage to a pwBPD.

Any parent, I submit, has to face the question: what am I passing along to my children? I like to think that I demonstrated to my kids that change is possible in life and one need not remain in an abusive situation.  Whether that message will sink in someday is hard to say, as they’re still teenagers.

I don’t want to sugarcoat it and give the impression that my post-BPD life is all rainbows and puppies, because it’s not.  Yet, in my experience, detaching can lead to greater happiness, which is what it’s all about, right?

Only you can determine the right path for you.  I can’t tell you what to do, but I can share my story.

LuckyJim

[lenfan]

Wow. I just had to reply here because I am going through this right  now and am frankly getting a bit depressed. I just realized  have rageophobia really bad. It goes far back to childhood. 

My UBPDw will get angry, fume, curse,  sulk, belittle, say awful things, etc. over very minor issues or non-issues.  I have to have a discussion in the next few days with her about money where she will actually have some legitimate grievances. I am dreading it. I dread these kinds of conversations so much that, like an earlier poster, I would buy things I can't afford or pay bills with a credit card just to avoid the rage. That only makes financial things worse, so I am trying to be as direct and candid as I can but I still have the dread. The timing was perfect for this discussion. Thank you to the original poster.

Because of my depressed mood, my mind is pushing back against the original comments:

* They leave us?  - we rebuild our lives  Really? I'm getting older and have 25 years into this relationship. I think the only rebuilding I'll do is just crawl in a hole.

* They physically assault us? - we heal ourselves apart from them Not an issue form me, Thank God. "Just" verbal and emotional.

* They steal or harm our children? - we work at preventing that  We can work at it but how? Will it be enough?

* They break and destroy our house/car/possessions? - we can live without those possessions Probably would not do that, but could throw me about and leave me with very little.

* They tell lies to our family and friends about us? - those who love us will believe in us  I thought she loved and believed in me once too. We live in an age of lies and distortion. Who knows? Is love enough? I doubt it.

* They scream and yell at us? - we have the choice to walk away  Where? How long?

* They punish us by not speaking to us? - we enjoy the silence and work on ourselves True to a degree but the silence can be agonizing

Any of these things are horrible and bad - but they aren't the end of the world.  True, but I worry that they are the start of the end of my little world. We can rebuild/regain/replace most of it. Really? It took so long to get it in the first place.


I know my repsonses reflect a bad attitude, but those are the thoughts that intrude on my brain. I am not trying to argue against the original poster's points.  .  . I want to adopt that attitude. Can anybody offer any positive rebuttals to my negative responses?