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Author Topic: 5.10 | Ragephobia, the fear of being raged upon  (Read 19243 times)
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« on: May 05, 2010, 02:27:51 PM »

This topic started in someone else's thread, but I thought it was important enough to address - so I started a new thread to address it... .


Excerpt
That's cuz the worst happens when we don't prepare for it.

Are you sure about that?

What is "the worst?"

* They leave us?  - we rebuild our lives

* They physically assault us? - we heal ourselves apart from them

* They steal or harm our children? - we work at preventing that

* They break and destroy our house/car/possessions? - we can live without those possessions

* They tell lies to our family and friends about us? - those who love us will believe in us

* They scream and yell at us? - we have the choice to walk away

* They punish us by not speaking to us? - we enjoy the silence and work on ourselves

Any of these things are horrible and bad - but they aren't the end of the world. We can rebuild/regain/replace most of it.


I think we allow ourselves to be controlled by our fears.

Atychiphobia- Fear of failure.

Arachnephobia or Arachnophobia- Fear of spiders.
<br/>:)ecidophobia- Fear of making decisions.

Enosiophobia or Enissophobia- Fear of having committed an unpardonable sin or of criticism.

Eremophobia- Fear of being oneself or of lonliness.

Gnosiophobia- Fear of knowledge.

Hypengyophobia or Hypegiaphobia- Fear of responsibility.

Kakorrhaphiophobia- Fear of failure or defeat.

Mastigophobia- Fear of punishment.

Mythophobia- Fear of myths or stories or false statements.

Omphalophobia- Fear of belly buttons. (had to throw that one in  )

Poinephobia- Fear of punishment.

Rhabdophobia- Fear of being severely punished or beaten by a rod, or of being severely criticized. Also fear of magic.(wand)

and last but not least... .

Zemmiphobia- Fear of the great mole rat.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm going to invent a new phobia ... .ragephobia- a fear of being raged at, yelled at, criticized, or belittled by our loved one.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A phobia is an overwhelming and unreasonable fear of an object or situation that poses little real danger. Unlike the brief anxiety most people feel when they give a speech or take a test, a phobia is long-lasting, causes intense physical and psychological distress, and can affect your ability to function normally at home/work or in relationships with others.

No matter what type of phobia you have, it's likely to produce the following reactions:

    * A feeling of uncontrollable anxiety when you're exposed to the source of your fear — sitting on an airplane, for instance, or walking into a large party

    * The feeling that you must do everything possible to avoid what you fear

    * The inability to function normally because of your anxiety

    * Often, the knowledge that your fears are unreasonable or exaggerated but feeling powerless to control them

    * Physical as well as psychological reactions, including sweating, rapid heartbeat, difficulty breathing, a feeling of panic and intense anxiety

    * In some cases, anxiety just thinking about what you fear

How do you deal with a phobia?

Behavior therapy
<br/>:)esensitization or exposure therapy focuses on changing your response to the object or situation that you fear. Gradual, repeated exposure to the cause of your phobia may help you learn to conquer your anxiety. For example, you can imagine how you would respond when someone directs their rage at you. You can visualize yourself listening to someone's rage and walking away from it. This visualization can help prepare you so that when you are faced with a rage, that you will have the strength to take care of yourself by walking away rather than staying to be abused.

** Exposing yourself to a rage isn't being recommended here. What "is" being recommended is that you find a way to work with your fears and to become stronger and more confident in taking care of yourself.

Cognitive behavioral therapy is a more comprehensive form of therapy. It involves working with a therapist to learn ways to view and cope with the feared object or situation differently. You learn alternative beliefs about your fears and the impact they have on your life. There's special emphasis on learning to develop a sense of mastery and control of your thoughts and feelings.

To help you cope with fears:

    * Talk openly about fears. Don't trivialize the problem or belittle yourself for being afraid.

    * Don't reinforce phobias. Instead, take advantage of opportunities to help overcome your fears.

    * Pursue positive approaches.  learn to breathe deeply and repeat positive statements such as "I can do this" when facing something scary. rate the fear on a scale of 1 to 10. Recognizing that the fear rates only a 5 on the scale, for example, may help you see the feeling as being less overwhelming.




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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2010, 02:41:28 PM »

Ok so I found a list of phobias and these are just the A ones.

Fear of looking up? Geez. Good topic UFN.                                                                                                               


Ablutophobia- Fear of washing or bathing.

Acarophobia- Fear of itching or of the insects that cause itching.

Acerophobia- Fear of sourness.

Achluophobia- Fear of darkness.

Acousticophobia- Fear of noise.

Acrophobia- Fear of heights.

Aerophobia- Fear of drafts, air swallowing, or airbourne noxious substances.

Aeroacrophobia- Fear of open high places.

Aeronausiphobia- Fear of vomiting secondary to airsickness.

Agateophobia- Fear of insanity.

Agliophobia- Fear of pain.

Agoraphobia- Fear of open spaces or of being in crowded, public places like markets. Fear of leaving a safe place.

Agraphobia- Fear of sexual abuse.

Agrizoophobia- Fear of wild animals.

Agyrophobia- Fear of streets or crossing the street.

Aichmophobia- Fear of needles or pointed objects.

Ailurophobia- Fear of cats.

Albuminurophobia- Fear of kidney disease.

Alektorophobia- Fear of chickens.

Algophobia- Fear of pain.

Alliumphobia- Fear of garlic.

Allodoxaphobia- Fear of opinions.

Altophobia- Fear of heights.

Amathophobia- Fear of dust.

Amaxophobia- Fear of riding in a car.

Ambulophobia- Fear of walking.

Amnesiphobia- Fear of amnesia.

Amychophobia- Fear of scratches or being scratched.

Anablephobia- Fear of looking up.

Ancraophobia- Fear of wind. (Anemophobia)

Androphobia- Fear of men.

Anemophobia- Fear of air drafts or wind.(Ancraophobia)

Anginophobia- Fear of angina, choking or narrowness.

Anglophobia- Fear of England or English culture, etc.

Angrophobia - Fear of anger or of becoming angry.

Ankylophobia- Fear of immobility of a joint.

Anthrophobia or Anthophobia- Fear of flowers.

Anthropophobia- Fear of people or society.

Antlophobia- Fear of floods.

Anuptaphobia- Fear of staying single.

Apeirophobia- Fear of infinity.

Aphenphosmphobia- Fear of being touched. (Haphephobia)

Apiphobia- Fear of bees.

Apotemnophobia- Fear of persons with amputations.

Arachibutyrophobia- Fear of peanut butter sticking to the roof of the mouth.

Arachnephobia or Arachnophobia- Fear of spiders.

Arithmophobia- Fear of numbers.

Arrhenphobia- Fear of men.

Arsonphobia- Fear of fire.

Asthenophobia- Fear of fainting or weakness.

Astraphobia or Astrapophobia- Fear of thunder and lightning.(Ceraunophobia, Keraunophobia)

Astrophobia- Fear of stars or celestial space.

Asymmetriphobia- Fear of asymmetrical things.

Ataxiophobia- Fear of ataxia. (muscular incoordination)

Ataxophobia- Fear of disorder or untidiness.

Atelophobia- Fear of imperfection.

Atephobia- Fear of ruin or ruins.

Athazagoraphobia- Fear of being forgotton or ignored or forgetting.

Atomosophobia- Fear of atomic explosions.

Atychiphobia- Fear of failure.

Aulophobia- Fear of flutes.

Aurophobia- Fear of gold.

Auroraphobia- Fear of Northern lights.

Autodysomophobia- Fear of one that has a vile odor.

Automatonophobia- Fear of ventriloquist's dummies, animatronic creatures, wax statues - anything that falsly represents a sentient being.

Automysophobia- Fear of being dirty.

Autophobia- Fear of being alone or of oneself.

Aviophobia or Aviatophobia- Fear of flying.

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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2010, 02:43:50 PM »

Great topic, UFN.

I used to think that it was my job as a spouse to let my W "vent" by raging at me.  I thought that I had some duty or obligation to listen to her verbal abuse.

Now I know that I have a choice to walk away.  I can leave the room, leave the house, go to the bookstore, go see a friend, go to a motel, or whatever measure that I deem necessary.

Thanks for all the helpful reminders.  Uke

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« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2010, 02:48:33 PM »

phobophobia.

I'm afraid of phobias.


I'm not afraid of rages anymore. I'm no longer around when they are going on.

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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2010, 02:49:59 PM »

Caligynephobia- Fear of beautiful women.

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« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2010, 05:39:41 PM »

What is "the worst?"

They leave us?  - we rebuild our lives

we heal ourselves apart from them

we work at healing our children

we can live without those possessions

those who love us will believe in us

we have the choice to walk away

we enjoy the silence and work on ourselves

Right now at this moment... .Leaving is not the worst!  

The worst is continuing the way we were... .The next is the slowness of therapy.

What is the phobia for things moving to slow... .
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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2010, 05:43:46 PM »

UFN,

Do you think there's a possibility that a partner of a rager could so desensitive himself/herself to the family rager that the children's fear is forgotten or minimized?

In our desire to avoid "walking on eggshells," how do we assure that we are not ignoring that other important imperative, remaining aware of "the gift of fear?"

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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2010, 06:38:13 PM »



The cure to healing from ragephobia isn't to ignore the rager - it is to take care of yourself by walking away. When you remove the audience (us) from the rager, you are removing the pay off they get from raging. If the rager then turns on the children, then that is another whole issue that needs to be addressed... .

No one should stay and be an audience to someone who is out of control and raging. NO ONE... .
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2010, 07:03:05 PM »

No one should stay and be an audience to someone who is out of control and raging. NO ONE... .

Now you're talking!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I think it's pretty important for this website to be sensitive to issues of clinical anxiety and phobic fear, as these conditions often develop from growing up in households where children are exposed to a raging parent. (I even think caligynephobia will probably develop in some of the sons of men who don't leave an abusive woman because of her physical attractiveness.)
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« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2010, 08:03:47 PM »

The cure to healing from ragephobia isn't to ignore the rager - it is to take care of yourself by walking away. When you remove the audience (us) from the rager, you are removing the pay off they get from raging. If the rager then turns on the children, then that is another whole issue that needs to be addressed... .

No one should stay and be an audience to someone who is out of control and raging. NO ONE... .

  Some of you have heard this before, but I think it bears repeating for those that havent heard it yet.

Since my H recovered from BPD, we talked about raging alot. I am going to share some of his insight into it.

First, know he was a major raging guy... awful.

Now, he talks about it.

He says it felt GOOD to rage. Endorphins, powerful, etc. It felt GOOD. He emphasized that. It helped him feel power and in control and he FELT something positive. A high. Somehow, that 'fun' never happened to me, when I was his target

He also said that when someone is dysregulated like that, there is nothing for us, as nons to do, except "save yourselves". That means walk away, get away. We do NOT help the situation by staying. Raging destroys us and our relationships and it feels good, like a drug. WE need to stop enabling it to happen.

  Just wanted to add this to the discussion. It may help someone understand, from a recovered persons POV.
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« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2010, 06:57:34 AM »

I even have a form of PTSD from her rages.  If I can one is coming, or even see that look on her face, my gut tightens up.  Avoiding those things that trigger the rages can be important, but sometimes topics have to be brought up or addressed, or you just have to live your life, rages be damned.  I try to follow three steps:

1) Determine if its becoming a rage, or a truly legitimate frustration / issue

2) Validate to try to defuse the issue

3) Walk away
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« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2010, 07:26:18 AM »

Hi, I'm JDoe and I am a ragephobic.  In my FOO, my younger sister was the one who showed inappropriate anger by raging, but not to any great extent.  She might scream that she hated my mother, then retreat to her room, only to come down at supper time with everyone acting like nothing happened.  It was understood that since she was "the middle child" she was difficult and caused Mom to spend hours praying at the side of her bed for patience and knowledge to "deal with" my sister.  It felt clear to me and our younger brother that anger was bad, so to this day we do not show anger.  Fortunately, he's in therapy and we are both growing.

So I stuff mine and BPD DH rages.  Less now that I am learning the tools and trying to see what triggers I am providing to the mix.  Even reading UFN's original post made my stomach churn and my heart rate speed up.  I was glad to read that Steph's DH said that raging feels good.  If it is addictive, then my walking away would deflate the rush, which empowers me to do so.  Like Uke, I used to believe that I was allowing him to vent.  But venting would make someone feel better and all I felt was trashed while DH proceeded on to the silent treatment.  Not therapeutic for anyone.  Like MacMan, I probably have some PTSD from the rages, but learning and growing, thanks to my dear friends here at bpdfamily.com, is very healing.

Much love to all,

JDoe

Great thread!
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« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2010, 08:53:02 AM »

IMHO the point Steph makes cannot go underestimated.

Excerpt
He says it felt GOOD to rage. Endorphins, powerful, etc. It felt GOOD. He emphasized that. It helped him feel power and in control and he FELT something positive. A high. Somehow, that 'fun' never happened to me, when I was his target

Me neither.

Steph stated this a long time ago and I grabbed onto it... .and am glad to see it being stated again.

SAVE YOURSELF.

And I also agree with GCD145... .it is the drip drip over time and past experiences for some of us that allowed it to seem sort of "normal" when it isn't/ wasn't.

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« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2010, 11:03:03 AM »

UFN, you always post such thoughtful topics that stretch me.  I particularly see myself in this topic.  I am afraid of being raged upon and fight the natural tendency to change my actions  in hopes of avoiding such hurtful behavior.  Is that co-dependency or self-preservation?  I don't know.  There is no one holding my H accountable for his raging and walking away from those kind of conversations have not diminished them. Desensitization definitely didn't work for me!  I became more convinced that his behavior was abusive and I wasn't doing him any favors by allowing him to vent on me.

My T has challenged me to ask myself the question you pose as to "What is the worst that could happen?".  This has been helpful in working through the various worst case scenarios so that I am more comfortable with several eventualites and able to make better decisions regarding my own actions.  I cannot however, seem to get away from this persistent anxiety I feel.  I suffer from all of the symptoms you suggest are a result of ragephobia and have worked with a T for 5 years now to deal with them differently.  Perhaps I react to raging more strongly than most and I am exploring the possible reasons for that in IT.  But could it be that I just find those situations unpleasant and even damaging?  Could it be that the average person would react the same way?  Will I ever be able to relax and not fear my H's reaction? Even after months of quiet, I feel anxious and a simple change in tone of voice sends my anxiety level soaring.  Feels like I need to go away for about a year in order to de-stress enough and experience peace.  How to achieve that while still in the situation has become my current focus.  I am reluctant to try an anti-depressant or Reiki therapy to deal with my anxiety but maybe it has come to that.  My doctor just told me my cortisol levels are way too high and something needs to change. 

Would love to hear how others deal with this fear other than walking away at the time of conflict. 
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« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2010, 11:26:13 AM »

I clean and try to recenter my focus only on what I am doing.  I clean alot.  So I am actually taking my focus off him and have the bonus of doing something that needs to be done... which makes me feel better.  And if it doesn't I have a clean house.

For example:  I disengage and clean the kitchen... mind wanders to problems... I remind my self to concentrate on what I am doing at this moment.  How does the water feel, pay attention to the way my hands feel while washing.

Mindfullness only on what I am currently doing.  After wards my fear or anxiety is not as strong.
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« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2010, 11:57:10 AM »

Excerpt
He says it felt GOOD to rage. Endorphins, powerful, etc. It felt GOOD. He emphasized that. It helped him feel power and in control and he FELT something positive. A high. Somehow, that 'fun' never happened to me, when I was his target

He also said that when someone is dysregulated like that, there is nothing for us, as nons to do, except "save yourselves". That means walk away, get away. We do NOT help the situation by staying. Raging destroys us and our relationships and it feels good, like a drug. WE need to stop enabling it to happen.

R says pretty much the same... hes not 'recovered' but... a lot of progress... i havent had him lose it at me more than a handful of times... i think he still feels like he wants to rage... has an mma gym membership for that... i go the same place... and when youre feeling ___ty... it DOES feel good to let it out someway... if it didnt this forum wouldnt have so many vent posts  
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« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2010, 08:50:32 PM »

I have found that as my husbands rages have diminished I am starting to change the way I talk to him.

I am a little (ok a lot) more sassy with him and now he finds it funny rather than a reason to rage.

Especially if I am in a bad mood I can actually show that without feeling at risk for a rage.

I used to be very careful and still set him off. I was so scared of his anger but now things are different very different and I am still getting used to it (in a good way)
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« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2010, 09:28:38 PM »

I have found that as my husbands rages have diminished I am starting to change the way I talk to him.

I am a little (ok a lot) more sassy with him and now he finds it funny rather than a reason to rage.

Especially if I am in a bad mood I can actually show that without feeling at risk for a rage.

I used to be very careful and still set him off. I was so scared of his anger but now things are different very different and I am still getting used to it (in a good way)

R and my relationship... tends to be a lot like that... a LOT of... 'sass' back and forth... and... it is funny... and fun... to be able to just... hang w/him like that... also possible to mouth off at each other... and be validating... it aint really... specific words w/him that set him off... usually its invalidation... but just messing around... is just fun.
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« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2010, 09:45:48 PM »

R and my relationship... tends to be a lot like that... a LOT of... 'sass' back and forth... and... it is funny... and fun... to be able to just... hang w/him like that... also possible to mouth off at each other... and be validating... it aint really... specific words w/him that set him off... usually its invalidation... but just messing around... is just fun.

Yes dados. We have so much fun together now. We can talk for hours or watch movies or play with the pups. I can tease him and he me. There is much more laughter and good stuff to fill our days.

We went to MC recently and were able to report that we are pretty happy in our marriage now. Both of us. I feel safe with him and we can even talk about what it was like before without bad feelings.
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« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2010, 10:03:35 PM »

Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) ... the language we use ... i got a foul mouth... so does he... i cant repeat here... but yeah... its good... i dont really walk on eggshells... bc i know if he starts to unravel... 1 of 2 things probably gonna happen... 1. he gets pissed off and nasty... i go do my own thing until he cools off... 2... he kinda shuts down and implodes... which really just affects him...
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« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2010, 10:18:59 PM »

Ifso and Dados, I too am experiencing less fear and more sassiness.  There is a lot of laughter in our house now.  When we started with our babies, I set boundaries.  I mean deal breakers, like name calling.  It is funny how a man knows the mama will leave, without a doubt, to ensure your babies have a good, calm, happy homelife.  So, it motivates him to watch his triggers, and his mouth.  We have been married for four years now, and are FINALLY having fun, and sharing responsibilities.  I was really happy to read others having the same joys and progress.  It was important for me to read your posts, because sometimes I become very sad about the posts and not being able to give some of the people here, a real, in person hug that would make everything better.  Whoa.  I am becoming my mom.  WTH  when did that happen?  ?
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« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2010, 10:31:24 PM »

most of the time... w/having good boundaries... and learning how to validate... things are pretty good... R is always up and down... daily usually... but way less spill over to other people... and he gets lots better at regulating... when hes dealing w/his feelings w/out just losing his ___...

hes crazy... im crazy about him. Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2010, 10:44:20 PM »

"He's crazy and I'm crazy about him".  I love that!  I feel the same way, again.  I have done a 180 lately in my renewed love for my hubby, as he has devoted himself to being a better, husband, communicator and partner in all things.  And, he's smoking hot. 
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« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2010, 08:17:31 AM »

Here's a personal example of "rageophobia".

Her: We need to buy X.

Me: {oh crap ... .we can't afford it ... .but I know from experience she's going to make life a living hell if I tell her that ... .arrrgh, I don't even want to deal with this ... .I wonder how much of my blood I'd have to sell to afford this ... .or maybe I can get a loan ... .}  I'll see what I can do honeybunch.


Now, it's not an irrational fear that she will pour on the emotional attacks if I say we can't afford it ... .it's a rational fear, based on experience. But in the example above, I let it irrationally control me.


Let's try it again.

Her: We need to buy X.

Me: {oh crap ... .we can't afford it ... .OK, based on experience she's going to try to make life a living hell if I tell her that ... .what can I do to protect myself from that? OK, if she starts in, I'll leave the room. If she follows me, I'll leave the house. I'm prepared.}  X would be very useful! We can't afford it right now, but maybe we can save up for it. What are your ideas on that?

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« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2010, 08:26:59 AM »

Excerpt
We can't afford it right now, but maybe we can save up for it. What are your ideas on that?

What would you do If you wife agrees logically... but it still affects her emotional being.  And and hour later she starts getting irritated at every little thing.

You know logically that this is because she wanted something that she could have.  She has learned ranting and raging is not an option, so she is now reverting to childish behavior.
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« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2010, 08:43:36 AM »

What would you do If you wife agrees logically... but it still affects her emotional being.  And and hour later she starts getting irritated at every little thing.

You know logically that this is because she wanted something that she could have.  She has learned ranting and raging is not an option, so she is now reverting to childish behavior.

The first thing I'd do - and I do have to consciously do this - is remind myself that this is an improvement. Verbal acting out is better than physical acting out. Snippiness is better than yelling. Etc. Just because you didn't teleport to your destination doesn't mean you aren't on the right path.

Then I remember I have choices. At any given moment, I can choose to end the conversation, take a time out if need be, try to hear and validate her emotions (e.g. "yes, it is hard to wait", etc.  I don't have to just "endure" it. I have choices.


We have some really good articles on how changing our approach doesn't mean coddling or "surrendering".

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a104.htm
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« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2010, 08:58:28 AM »

 Yea, I think weve sort of taken the "rageaphobic" term and turned it into something that it wasnt meant to be...

1) Being raged at sucks. We all agree.

2) If we live with a rager, must we allow it to control our lives?

3) If we fear being raged at, are we not allowing ourselves to stay stuck in the FOG, or operating out of the FOG?

So no one likes being raged at. This particular symptom of BPD greatly effects anyone in its path. I think its important, tho, that we not allow ourselves to be so afraid of it that we cannot express ourselves or otherwise cause us tremendous or paralyzing anxiety. We set boundaries around it, we walk out, we protect our kids... we do not allow ourselves to be controlled by this symptom of BPD. We also need to remember that we cannot control another persons emotions.

Also, keep in mind raging isnt about us, so there is no reason to be around it. We have the ability to leave when raging goes on. If we stop allowing ourselves to stick around for it... .and we know that it feels good to our person who is raging, we are reinforcing that raging works and it works well for them. So, raging continues.

Changing things by taking away the audience for a rager as opposed to allowing yourself to live in fear of raging, to me, makes the most sense AND it is also the healthiest option for you, your kids and for your rager Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2010, 09:01:36 AM »

What would you do If you wife agrees logically... but it still affects her emotional being.  And and hour later she starts getting irritated at every little thing.

You know logically that this is because she wanted something that she could have.  She has learned ranting and raging is not an option, so she is now reverting to childish behavior.

The first thing I'd do - and I do have to consciously do this - is remind myself that this is an improvement. Verbal acting out is better than physical acting out. Snippiness is better than yelling. Etc. Just because you didn't teleport to your destination doesn't mean you aren't on the right path.

Then I remember I have choices. At any given moment, I can choose to end the conversation, take a time out if need be, try to hear and validate her emotions (e.g. "yes, it is hard to wait", etc.  I don't have to just "endure" it. I have choices.


We have some really good articles on how changing our approach doesn't mean coddling or "surrendering".

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a104.htm

And also remember... .just because your partner with BPD isnt raging does NOT mean they are not still someone with BPD. They are still disordered and not raging will NOT recover them from BPD. For them, its taking away a coping skill that they use to feel better, so they are going to struggle and feel miserable. You will need to deal with other behaviors as they come up.

Steph
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« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2010, 09:06:19 AM »

What would you do If you wife agrees logically... but it still affects her emotional being.  And and hour later she starts getting irritated at every little thing.

You know logically that this is because she wanted something that she could have.  She has learned ranting and raging is not an option, so she is now reverting to childish behavior.

The first thing I'd do - and I do have to consciously do this - is remind myself that this is an improvement. Verbal acting out is better than physical acting out. Snippiness is better than yelling. Etc. Just because you didn't teleport to your destination doesn't mean you aren't on the right path.

Then I remember I have choices. At any given moment, I can choose to end the conversation, take a time out if need be, try to hear and validate her emotions (e.g. "yes, it is hard to wait", etc.  I don't have to just "endure" it. I have choices.


We have some really good articles on how changing our approach doesn't mean coddling or "surrendering".

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a104.htm

And also remember... .just because your partner with BPD isnt raging does NOT mean they are not still someone with BPD. They are still disordered and not raging will NOT recover them from BPD. For them, its taking away a coping skill that they use to feel better, so they are going to struggle and feel miserable. You will need to deal with other behaviors as they come up.

Steph

Steph you got that right ... .Because my SO doesn't rage it took forever to figure out what was going on ... .There is no doubt he has BPD any longer but it took a while to make this determination ... .Even took his therapist 2 years ... .

BPD can wear many faces ... .It's the shapeshifter of the mental health world ... .
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« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2010, 12:22:54 PM »

Excerpt
And also remember... .just because your partner with BPD isnt raging does NOT mean they are not still someone with BPD. They are still disordered and not raging will NOT recover them from BPD. For them, its taking away a coping skill that they use to feel better, so they are going to struggle and feel miserable. You will need to deal with other behaviors as they come up.

Steph

true... my partner used drugs for a lot of years... to cope... and self injured on and off for even longer... but when he got clean... the SI stuff... got really bad... from a few times a month to several times a day... and really hard to stop too... but didnt stop until he learned healthier ways to deal...
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« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2010, 02:20:59 PM »

Excerpt
Just because you didn't teleport to your destination doesn't mean you aren't on the right path.

You bursted my bubble...   I know I keep telling myself it took 3 years to get to where we are now, it didn't happen over night.  It will take longer to move forward, because what ever trigger or the core issues will take awhile to figure out.

It is so weird right now... my H is the person I love and know... at least he was went he left to run an errand.

Excerpt
For them, its taking away a coping skill that they use to feel better, so they are going to struggle and feel miserable. You will need to deal with other behaviors as they come up.

I know... just got use to dealing with the other... now I am at a loss... I wish I could just send him to his garage.  I can see it... .H that wasn't very nice... .why don't you go to your garage... .and come back when you can be nice.
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« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2010, 11:58:22 AM »

That tactic works when you are an adult dealing with another adult in a chosen relationship, but that tactic is not an option for the child of a raging, out-of-control, emotionally and physically abusive parent.  Trying to walk away and protect yourself can get you worse abuse.

I grew up with a very high-functioning but very rage-filled BPD/NPD mother who would act out emotionally and physically at us kids, and I developed rageophobia; I am drama-phobic.  I live alone in order to avoid as much interpersonal conflict and drama as possible; I think I have some avoidant personality disorder symptoms, even, as a result of being raged at so often.

So growing up being screamed at and shamed and vilified and humiliated and punished for just being an imperfect human being by a BPD parent can do great damage to a child and young person. 

-LOAnnie



The cure to healing from ragephobia isn't to ignore the rager - it is to take care of yourself by walking away. When you remove the audience (us) from the rager, you are removing the pay off they get from raging. If the rager then turns on the children, then that is another whole issue that needs to be addressed... .

No one should stay and be an audience to someone who is out of control and raging. NO ONE... .

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« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2010, 10:00:43 PM »

Excerpt
UFN, you always post such thoughtful topics that stretch me.  I particularly see myself in this topic.  I am afraid of being raged upon and fight the natural tendency to change my actions  in hopes of avoiding such hurtful behavior.

I hate being raged at and when my exnBPD raged at me, I walked away. He found me in the garage crying like a child. I told him, I cannot take being threatened or bullied in a rage.

It was the last time he raged at me until we broke up, he bottled all his rage inside and saved it for the last day. But part of what happened is this-I quit trusting him and I quit feeling free around him. It just cast a pall over our relationship, I started the eggshell boogie.

Thinking it through I know what it is I hate, when someone attacks me verbally in a rage. I hate it. And I will never tolerate it again, ever. Someone does that to me  I won't hide in the garage crying. They will hear one of two sounds, my door closing as they leave. Or their door closing as I leave.

I am done with abuse.
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« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2011, 08:42:21 PM »

What about the fear of having no fear!

When you reach the point where you are just honest, say what you feel... .because enough is enough! 

All is good about their therapy, progress or life... but you have one concern!  The issues you can't voice not because your scared, but because you know it doesn't matter because they are not there yet.

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« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2011, 10:09:26 PM »

Geez when I saw that the thread was bump up I... read the original post.  But being short on time only responded to the first... not realizing I originally responded in May of last year!

I just clicked on replies to your last post... .now I have to look at which board this was moved to... .

Excerpt
"As fear is based on something that we think may happen in the future, it is clearly a mental process which tries to predict the future - in that sense, the reason of fear is a projection of our mind.

We can be afraid to fall, but once we are falling, we are afraid to hit the ground, once we hit the ground, we may fear we have a bad injury, once we know we have a bad injury, we may fear the pain and the consequences of not being able to work for some time or become disabled etc. So one could say that fear is always based on something that has not happened yet, and is therefore a fantasy of our mind rather than fact. "  Quoted from www.viewonbuddhism.org/fear.html

Well... .I think I answered my own post... Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2011, 12:56:47 PM »

The cure to healing from ragephobia isn't to ignore the rager - it is to take care of yourself by walking away. When you remove the audience (us) from the rager, you are removing the pay off they get from raging. If the rager then turns on the children, then that is another whole issue that needs to be addressed... .

No one should stay and be an audience to someone who is out of control and raging. NO ONE... .

  Some of you have heard this before, but I think it bears repeating for those that havent heard it yet.

Since my H recovered from BPD, we talked about raging alot. I am going to share some of his insight into it.

First, know he was a major raging guy... awful.

Now, he talks about it.

He says it felt GOOD to rage. Endorphins, powerful, etc. It felt GOOD. He emphasized that. It helped him feel power and in control and he FELT something positive. A high. Somehow, that 'fun' never happened to me, when I was his target

He also said that when someone is dysregulated like that, there is nothing for us, as nons to do, except "save yourselves". That means walk away, get away. We do NOT help the situation by staying. Raging destroys us and our relationships and it feels good, like a drug. WE need to stop enabling it to happen.

  Just wanted to add this to the discussion. It may help someone understand, from a recovered persons POV.

Steph-

My dBPDgf also openly discusses her raging as well (she's in DBT and well on her way to a full recovery). She has said the exact same thing as your H. She has also said that while she is raging she KNOWS exactly what she is saying and in many cases she realizes how utterly ridiculous some of the things she's saying truly are. It's just that when the RAGE begins she doesn't know how to stop. I found this to be very interesting as well.
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« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2013, 12:44:37 AM »

Excerpt
Omphalophobia- Fear of belly buttons. (had to throw that one in  wink)

I can relate. You never know what is going to come out of there.  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2013, 09:41:38 PM »

Hm I'm not sure I fear raging as much as I fear criticism from authority figures!

Maybe authophobia? I guess that could be fear of authors too though... .  
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« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2013, 08:42:09 AM »

I used to fear rages,  but when I realized that I can only be responsible for my own behavior and that I have no control over others, that stopped. We all have to be responsible for our own actions and respect our own values. I act like a mature, emotionally stable adult,  even if I am the only one doing it.
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« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2013, 06:39:48 PM »

I probably have Ragephobia at this point and ironically, I am fit to burst with my own anger issues (many of which stem from my experience dealing with the person in my life who had BPD).

I know that the worst that can happen is... .  well... .  nothing.  At least, nothing life-damaging like... .  oh say, dying.

But when I revisit the time where my gut reaction to RAGE turned into what it is now, I can also see where that Ragephobia comes from, too.

Though I certainly didn't die from being Raged at, very shortly after what I call our final confrontation, I literally became ill and ended up needing hospitalization as all the stress from everything triggered a relapse in a previously managed medical condition unrelated to anything psychiatric in nature.

Post-hospitalization, I ended up being put on anti-anxiety medication because between worrying that my friend would kill themselves and feeling shaken up from basically being their punching bag for hours on end (I should have and could have walked away at that time, but my concern for their safety won over) and not having the mental and emotional defenses to stand strong against it at the time, my emotional and mental strength buckled.

During this time, I initiated NC and though things had already gone bad, things went even worse and then the stalking and flurry of messages and notes from everywhere (the I hate you, don't leave mes; the you're a monster, you ruined my lifes; the I hope you're miserable for the rest of your lifes; the you should never be allowed to get close to people and if you get close to anyone i know, I will make life miserable for yous etc) started - first active and then later - years later, passive.

Still recovering from the hospitalization and the relapse, all of that only made it worse and that was when my Ragephobia was ultimately born.  Or rather, Ragephobia in regards to dealing with people who have a tendency to RAGE out of control and without any kind of self awareness and then never acknowledge (to you) or apologize (to you) for it.

When I go back into therapy, this is definitely an issue that I will address with them; I hate this fragility that has developed and I want to be strong enough to be able to handle rage appropriately and without letting my gut reaction take over first.
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« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2013, 11:29:52 AM »

I have a bad case of Ragephobia. Always had. Probably since growing up with a mom and dad who always faught and argued. All I remeber is them being angry at each other. Ive never seen people deal with conflict in a healthy way. Ever. Then I meet my current uBPDbf and everything got worse. Now I panic as soon as I even suspect he will be angry or upset with me. And its making me loose all my energy!
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« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2018, 08:16:52 PM »

I was reading this workshop and had an ah-ha moment. I am so afraid of the rages. SO afraid that I can’t even stand the television to be loud anymore. Any loud noise makes me jump. But I’ve been reminding myself that the worst to happen isn’t all that bad. If anyone reads this, can you give me advice on how to walk away from the rage without uBPDh feeling abandoned? Is this a boundary that I need to work on?
Thanks.
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« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2018, 10:32:45 AM »

Hey 5x5, Yes, it's a boundary issue.  When a rage is in progress, I suggest you remove yourself from the line of fire by leaving the room, leaving the house, etc., as necessary.  Ideally, you give your BPD SO a heads-up to the effect that if you do X, I will do Y.  It's about self-care and drawing a line in the sand concerning what is acceptable to you.  Boundaries protect you; they don't harm the other person.  What your SO may feel (e.g., abandonment) when you enforce a boundary is beyond your control and is his issue, not yours, in my view.

LuckyJim
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« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2018, 12:42:45 PM »

I came to realize that I only ever told my wife I loved her to avoid a rage, or to placate her so I don't have to deal with the truth.
These days, I can't even form the words "I love you" when talking to her.  I deal inside by thinking "I fear you less" as my baby step towards "I love you."
So, yeah, rageophobia should be a thing.
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« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2018, 03:48:38 PM »

Excerpt
I came to realize that I only ever told my wife I loved her to avoid a rage, or to placate her so I don't have to deal with the truth.

Hey SamWize, What is the truth you are trying to avoid?  Maybe it's time to stand in your truth?  LJ
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« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2018, 02:16:15 PM »

Hey SamWize, What is the truth you are trying to avoid?  Maybe it's time to stand in your truth?  LJ

I am so there with that idea.  The only truth that gets my heart going again is that I have to (or really want to) leave this marriage.  And the truth I'm avoiding in my statement above is that I simply do not love her, nor have I.  I just lied to keep the peace.
Speaking of fear of fear, this brings up what keeps me bottled up - the only thing worse than being married to her, is being divorce from her - where she can use the courts to abuse, and has extreme motivation to retaliate, brainwash the kids, or whatever.  I fear the fear itself.  FDR would be quite disappointed.
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« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2018, 09:22:40 AM »

Hey Sam,

Ragephobia, in my view, is another way of saying that one is being manipulated by fear, the “F” in F-O-G, which leads to the sort of deflection you describe.

Like you, I pretended a lot in my marriage.  No more.  Now I strive for authenticity.  Operating from my center allows me to hold my ground.  At the risk of sounding trite, being true to myself is my compass.

If my actions correspond with my core, it gives me conviction to say, “Damn the torpedoes; full speed ahead.”  And believe me, there are plenty of torpedoes in the aftermath of marriage to a pwBPD.

Any parent, I submit, has to face the question: what am I passing along to my children? I like to think that I demonstrated to my kids that change is possible in life and one need not remain in an abusive situation.  Whether that message will sink in someday is hard to say, as they’re still teenagers.

I don’t want to sugarcoat it and give the impression that my post-BPD life is all rainbows and puppies, because it’s not.  Yet, in my experience, detaching can lead to greater happiness, which is what it’s all about, right?

Only you can determine the right path for you.  I can’t tell you what to do, but I can share my story.

LuckyJim
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« Reply #47 on: August 29, 2018, 10:32:37 AM »

Wow. I just had to reply here because I am going through this right  now and am frankly getting a bit depressed. I just realized  have rageophobia really bad. It goes far back to childhood. 

My UBPDw will get angry, fume, curse,  sulk, belittle, say awful things, etc. over very minor issues or non-issues.  I have to have a discussion in the next few days with her about money where she will actually have some legitimate grievances. I am dreading it. I dread these kinds of conversations so much that, like an earlier poster, I would buy things I can't afford or pay bills with a credit card just to avoid the rage. That only makes financial things worse, so I am trying to be as direct and candid as I can but I still have the dread. The timing was perfect for this discussion. Thank you to the original poster.

Because of my depressed mood, my mind is pushing back against the original comments:

* They leave us?  - we rebuild our lives  Really? I'm getting older and have 25 years into this relationship. I think the only rebuilding I'll do is just crawl in a hole.

* They physically assault us? - we heal ourselves apart from them Not an issue form me, Thank God. "Just" verbal and emotional.

* They steal or harm our children? - we work at preventing that  We can work at it but how? Will it be enough?

* They break and destroy our house/car/possessions? - we can live without those possessions Probably would not do that, but could throw me about and leave me with very little.

* They tell lies to our family and friends about us? - those who love us will believe in us  I thought she loved and believed in me once too. We live in an age of lies and distortion. Who knows? Is love enough? I doubt it.

* They scream and yell at us? - we have the choice to walk away  Where? How long?

* They punish us by not speaking to us? - we enjoy the silence and work on ourselves True to a degree but the silence can be agonizing

Any of these things are horrible and bad - but they aren't the end of the world.  True, but I worry that they are the start of the end of my little world. We can rebuild/regain/replace most of it. Really? It took so long to get it in the first place.


I know my repsonses reflect a bad attitude, but those are the thoughts that intrude on my brain. I am not trying to argue against the original poster's points.  .  . I want to adopt that attitude. Can anybody offer any positive rebuttals to my negative responses?
 
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