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Author Topic: The pedestal  (Read 1071 times)
turtlesoup
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« on: June 28, 2010, 04:49:10 PM »

Hi All

I've been thinking about the importance of the pedestal in the BPD relationship. Of course my relationship was ver sexual very quickly which played to my battered ego (before meeting exBPD i'd recently VERY recently been dumped) and all of a sudden I was wonderful.

However, later in the relationship, that same pedestal was wheeled out infront of family or friends when they were doutbing or criticising her. Well Turtle is the only one who understands me or Turtle pleases me or whatever it was, of course she was just setting me against others that at first had the happy pay back of making me feel good. However, as I became more and more sure of her disordered thinking these little comments, especially when she was disregulated at gatherings or family dinners was just embarressing. I didn't agree with her, and he saying that "turtle thinks so" turned from being an ego high to an actual embarresement.

For those who left, and maybe those who didn't, do you remember when the adulation went from being the thing that kept you there to the thing that made you cringe?

Personally, I think she knew the wind had changed and that I had also began to agree with her friends and family that she was making very bad decisions. It seemed that the moment she cottoned that, she no longer fought to keep us together (we broke up many times... .didn't we all).

I am now super sensitive about pedestals, any dates or girlfriends over-egg the pudding with the adulation and I feel uncomfortable straight away.
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« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2010, 05:41:31 PM »

I think thats all normal in terms of being leery of being put on a pedestal.  They take it to a level that is visibly not normal you know?  We didnt then.  For me, in the very end, I began regarding the pedestal as just more manipulation.  She was only talking to me that way so Id be around long enough to hear the things I hated to hear.   
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innerspirit
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« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2010, 08:51:33 PM »

It's liked getting slimed by a greasy used-car salesman.  Sometimes I would imagine my X in a really bad plaid jacket and too much jewelry and cologne.

When I saw him do it towards other people, as supposed Golden Boy out in public, it made it easier to recognize the sycophant act as a tactic.  So the private pedestal at home became less seductive.   I was saddest about it when I just wanted support, not a yes-man, not his adulation, not back-pedalling for the crap he had dished out the day before.
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2010, 10:32:58 PM »

He didn't place me on a pedestal that I knew of, although he was very, very loving and kind. Maybe overly so, he would run bath water for me, wouldn't let me do the dishes, he said it was his turn to pamper me.

I remember telling him that I could do these things for myself and I appreciated them, but was worried he would resent this eventually. I asked him to not put me on a pedestal, that I wasn't perfect. He would respond, yes but you are perfect for me.

Then the little nasty comments started cropping up. It took roughly two years before they did, but it was a snow ball that turned into an avalanche, fairly quickly.

Its been seven months and quite honestly, although I am in less emotional pain, I am now more confused. What happened, I wonder. What was that relationship?

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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2010, 10:38:27 PM »

[quotehen I saw him do it towards other people, as supposed Golden Boy out in public, it made it easier to recognize the sycophant act as a tactic.  So the private pedestal at home became less seductive][/quote]
Yes, I watched him do this, just a real a[$$ kisser, and he didn't need to be. He is very intelligent and yet, I know it wasn't until he made his millions that he felt inferior. I remember feeling sorry for him and thinking he looked like a tired, worn out guy trying to impress a bunch of old rich guys.
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2010, 11:34:52 PM »

[quotehen I saw him do it towards other people, as supposed Golden Boy out in public, it made it easier to recognize the sycophant act as a tactic.  So the private pedestal at home became less seductive]

Excerpt
Yes, I watched him do this, just a real a[$$ kisser, and he didn't need to be. He is very intelligent and yet, I know it wasn't until he made his millions that he felt inferior. I remember feeling sorry for him and thinking he looked like a tired, worn out guy trying to impress a bunch of old rich guys.

[/quote]
omg i can so relate... he would get me a timmys coffee every single morning... for 5 years straight... .go out of is way... bring it back home and it would be there on the counter when i woke up... like clock work(i appreciated every cup btw)... he would cook for me all the time and so on... .he was the smartest man i knew... .but felt he had to impress and do 20 times over what was expected of him with his millionnaire clients and all other clients?  i just dident get it.  would not go out od his way for familly and friends though... after beeing tired of kissing ass all day i got the tired beaten down, victim. ?   and then he would always tell me (and so would his clients) that he talked highly of me all the time.?  and then raged at me? i say very confusing and ya! makes you think what was that relationship all about?  
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« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2010, 11:57:57 PM »

For those who left, and maybe those who didn't, do you remember when the adulation went from being the thing that kept you there to the thing that made you cringe?

I don't have an exact date or circumstance, but I can generalize it.  Hold on to your seat for this one -- it's a doozie!

Before we got married, we actually went to a marriage enrichment counselor to make sure we were both on the same page and ready for this commitment.  Whew!  Crazy to think of that now.  I was hesitant to get married because I had been married nearly 10 years earlier and it was a bad situation.  Piece of cake compared to this one though.  Anyway... . One of the things the counselor talked to us about was the love bank.  (You may have heard this analogy before.)  It was important to make deposits in the love bank routinely.  Respect one another and compliment one another.  :)o nice things and make some things extra special at times.  There were going to be times when we'd argue or disagree.  There would be times when we were mad at one another or let the other down.  There would be times when we'd be in a bad mood and not want to be with the other person.  All of these times would be withdrawals in the love bank.  That was why it was so important to make regular deposits.

I had been abused on such a consistent basis by him, that my love bank was in overdraft.  Any deposit he ever made wouldn't even register, I was that much in the red.  I could feel myself rolling my eyes whenever anything would leave his mouth that was remotely decent.  I had just been beaten down enough that there was no going back.  That's when I found myself countering whatever compliment he'd throw my way.  He'd say, "That was a good dinner."  And I'd retort, "I'm sure there's something you didn't like and I'll hear about it later."  His pedestal compliments were only given so he could knock me back down again, so I started beating him to the punch.  He hasn't held any charm for me for so long.  I struggle now with what I found so wonderful about him considering that person never really existed.  That person who sat in that marriage enrichment counselor's office and voiced his opinion on 13 major relationship markers along with me -- he was a farce.  A mirage.  I barely saw that particular version of him after that.

I'm not a fan of the pedestal, to say the least.
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« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2010, 12:04:47 AM »

I'm having a really hard time right now accepting sweet gestures from men because of this pedestal business.

Compliments. They give me the heebee-jeebees.
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« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2010, 12:12:38 AM »

For those who left, and maybe those who didn't, do you remember when the adulation went from being the thing that kept you there to the thing that made you cringe?

I don't have an exact date or circumstance, but I can generalize it.  Hold on to your seat for this one -- it's a doozie!

Before we got married, we actually went to a marriage enrichment counselor to make sure we were both on the same page and ready for this commitment.  Whew!  Crazy to think of that now.  I was hesitant to get married because I had been married nearly 10 years earlier and it was a bad situation.  Piece of cake compared to this one though.  Anyway... .  One of the things the counselor talked to us about what the love bank.  (You may have heard this analogy before.)  It was important to make deposits in the love bank routinely.  Respect one another and compliment one another.  Do nice things and make some things extra special at times.  There were going to be times when we'd argue or disagree.  There would be times when we were mad at one another or let the other down.  There would be times when we'd be in a bad mood and not want to be with the other person.  All of these time would be withdrawals in the love bank.  That was why it was so important to make regular deposits.

I had been abused on such a consistent basis by him, that my love bank was in overdraft.  Any deposit he ever made wouldn't even register, I was that much in the red.  I could feel myself rolling my eyes whenever anything would leave his mouth that was remotely decent.  I had just been beaten down enough that there was no going back.  That's when I found myself countering whatever compliment he'd throw my way.  He'd say, "That was a good dinner."  And I'd retort, "I'm sure there's something you didn't like and I'll hear about it later."  His pedestal compliments were only given so he could knock me back down again, so I started beating him to the punch.  He hasn't held any charm for me for so long.  I struggle now with what I found so wonderful about him considering that person never really existed.  That person who sat in that marriage enrichment counselor's office and voiced his opinion on 13 major relationship markers along with me -- he was a farce.  A mirage.  I barely saw that particular version of him after that.

I'm not a fan of the pedestal, to say the least.

well girl its a doozie alright... .x... I feel your disapointment tonight. I do because you so trusted him... .just like I did my H. but it wasn't for reals now was it?
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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2010, 12:31:02 AM »

I'm having a really hard time right now accepting sweet gestures from men because of this pedestal business.

Compliments. They give me the heebee-jeebees.

I know what you mean.  I do the same - run a mile from any man who seems overly keen or dishes out huge compliments.  They might be innocent but they ring of the ex to me.

Have these people messed up ability to have proper relationships now - are we always on the alert (even when there may not be any need?)
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« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2010, 12:43:50 AM »

too true - last week as uBPDso was at the house to move more things out - I was told how thin and fit I was looking.  Any other time, I would love that - but it made me mad and then sad.  I so cannot wait for no contact - the final moving stuff comes on Saturday.
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« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2010, 01:04:42 PM »

The pedestal. The only way down is to fall off. My exBPD friend actually used the word 'pedestal" as well as "goddess", "flawless", " perfect" etc. It was all too bizarre and I laughed it off... .it was just so ludicrous. He was an old man so I kinda gave him a "pass" as it seemed like  some of those old men you meet in life think this is something women want{ or need} and a throw back to the era they grew up in. I never liked it though... red flag... .and really figured it for what it was when he made some remark about my " strong, lovely jawline". If there's one thing I do not possess... .and I know this, it's a strong, lovely jawline. He was delusional... .He was throwing out these worshiping words willy nilly and I still can't figure this aspect out. It's creepy and weird and the script they all seem to follow is so damn perplexing. But you can't make sense of crazy can you? I'm so glad to be done with this creep and if ever I see another pedestal... .I'm gonna topple it myself.
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innerspirit
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« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2010, 03:17:11 PM »

Did you get to the point that you could discern honest, well-meaning support from this exaggerated, over-the-top stuff?  Something in the body language, tone of voice -- like it was a way too expensive gift serving as an unspoken apology.  It felt like currency.  And always as an antidote.  Super manipulative -- how ungracious and risky it would be not to accept the compliment -- and I didn't dare ask what the apology might be for.  He'd never admit the motivation, much less the circumstances -- he'd turn it into some issue of my being ungrateful, undeserving of the status.  

It also had a distinct air of PYGMALION (the tutelage in MY FAIR LADY) about it -- no way would I be where I am today if not for his _____, whatever, fill in the blank.  Then of course to any third party, he'd refer to me as The Boss -- how quaint, how "politically correct" of him, what an enlightened guy, what a passive/aggressive jerk.    

Ultimately he was fishing for similar adulation -- if he could grant me pedestal status, then by definition I owed it to him.  If I didn't buy into that FOG, then -- whoopee-- something else he could suffer through.

Every action was loaded with debits and credits.

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turtlesoup
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« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2010, 03:33:19 PM »

Did you get to the point that you could discern honest, well-meaning support from this exaggerated, over-the-top stuff?  

Kinda hard when there was never any honest, well-meaning support.
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innerspirit
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« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2010, 05:22:57 PM »

Did you get to the point that you could discern honest, well-meaning support from this exaggerated, over-the-top stuff?  

Kinda hard when there was never any honest, well-meaning support.

Sorry TS -- you deserved it.  It shines through here.   x
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turtlesoup
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« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2010, 05:36:11 PM »

Did you get to the point that you could discern honest, well-meaning support from this exaggerated, over-the-top stuff?  

Kinda hard when there was never any honest, well-meaning support.

Sorry TS -- you deserved it.  It shines through here.   x

Awwww shucks! Thanks sweetheart  x
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« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2010, 08:24:57 PM »

Excerpt
Something in the body language, tone of voice -- like it was a way too expensive gift serving as an unspoken apology.

I suspect now it was due to him trolling for NS when I wasn't around, he was looking for my replacement and when none found, would give me an unexpected gift. Plus all the clothing... .ugh, really bad taste in clothing. It looked like something a man would wear if he were a girl... .

Almost all of it is gone, now. Additional gifts, art collections. I have considered bagging it all up and mailing it to him, the jewelery I never wear, the art on my walls.

Once piece in particular, the first time we visited an art gallery together, I admired it and he bought it for me. It is a sweet piece titled "Make a Wish" and he would say, I wished for you.   

Funny how his last words were how he wouldn't think twice of me and could give or take our relationship.

Then emails me later and espouses all my virtues. I remember asking him, how can I trust anything you say, given that last day? His reply, You can't.

With NPD, they are complimentary when they feel gracious or need  your admiration. It is always about them. The pedestal is due to you being a perfect reflection of them, once they see you as the flawed human being you are, as we all are, they cannot stand the crack in the mirror.

There are men who ask me out now and I am simply not interested. My heart is mending. My T says it is a good sign, that I am capable of love and attachment and cannot jump into anything new. Given my experiences, when I am ready, I will probably not date anyone who compliments me too much or fawns over me... .

You know, I loved him for him, flaws, insecurities, all of it. I tried to talk to him about his deceptions, fawning ways, giving too much to me, but it was always, fended off by changing the subject, or making adoring statements, or a joke. What lies beneath, who knows. Hard to find the person inside of them when one is staring down from a pedestal. Give me real, thank you.

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« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2010, 07:58:05 PM »

I've learned that too much adulation is a red flag too. The ones that pump you up so high just as quickly shoot you down!
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« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2010, 10:31:40 PM »

The Pedestal is their marketing campaign. Come one, come all- try your hand at being the Knight who wins my heart. They might as well say, "the last applicant didn't measure up, but you really do." That gives them enough of a psychological edge that they can manipulate anyone who has common sense and a competitive spirit into thinking that the last person really was a fool and inept.

Once you get on that pedestal it becomes all about job performance- and sneaky little tests here and there with rules that have absolutely no meaning except for the Borderline's illness.  What a powerful feeling to them to control that pedestal and get you to replay their childhood reenactment. You dont know what's going on- because in reality- it doesn't make sense. All you know is that nothing is too large to overcome for love. For a Borderline, this isn't about true love- it's about bondage.

They get to shake that pedestal and make it impossible to stay up there.  What a vicious way to treat people that want to please you- by making them feel so insecure and unable to change their role. And that's really what it's all about for a Non- changing the pre-destined outcome. Nothing that a Non does or says will change it. Nothing that you do or say will allow you to remain on the pedestal forever. It was only a ruse to get you under control.
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« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2010, 10:36:46 PM »

Mine would put me on a pedestal and I never liked it.  I always felt alone up there.  I was very uncomfortable.  I just wanted to be by his side.  But when we started having problems, I was knocked off so hard.  It was a long and hard fall.  I was glad to be off but looking back that was the start of all of our problems.
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innerspirit
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« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2010, 01:25:47 PM »

The Pedestal is their marketing campaign. Come one, come all- try your hand at being the Knight who wins my heart. They might as well say, "the last applicant didn't measure up, but you really do." That gives them enough of a psychological edge that they can manipulate anyone who has common sense and a competitive spirit into thinking that the last person really was a fool and inept.

Once you get on that pedestal it becomes all about job performance- and sneaky little tests here and there with rules that have absolutely no meaning except for the Borderline's illness.  What a powerful feeling to them to control that pedestal and get you to replay their childhood reenactment. You dont know what's going on- because in reality- it doesn't make sense. All you know is that nothing is too large to overcome for love. For a Borderline, this isn't about true love- it's about bondage.

They get to shake that pedestal and make it impossible to stay up there.  What a vicious way to treat people that want to please you- by making them feel so insecure and unable to change their role. And that's really what it's all about for a Non- changing the pre-destined outcome. Nothing that a Non does or says will change it. Nothing that you do or say will allow you to remain on the pedestal forever. It was only a ruse to get you under control.

Also a continuing, profound undercurrent of "Mom didn't measure up but you really do."

Hence my apparent job to fix his present, protect his future and rewrite his past -- on his changing, semi-conscious terms.
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« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2010, 01:37:39 PM »

Innerspirit, That's exactly what it is. Mom. Fix my past, my present and my future. Rescue me from all the chaos that I engage... .and do it NOW! I demand you be always happy, nurturing, available, and never, ever show me that you are "human' as I CANNOT HANDLE anything but my perception of perfection. And just watch me implode when I perceive you to be of this earth. ARgggggh.
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« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2010, 03:12:05 PM »

Innerspirit, That's exactly what it is. Mom. Fix my past, my present and my future. Rescue me from all the chaos that I engage... .and do it NOW! I demand you be always happy, nurturing, available, and never, ever show me that you are "human' as I CANNOT HANDLE anything but my perception of perfection. And just watch me implode when I perceive you to be of this earth. ARgggggh.

If not for the discussion of the sense of pedestals (and soul mates on another thread too), I don't think the "Mom" comment would have occured to me.

Then of course X was jealous of his own creation.  So he'd implode for lack of his perception of perfection, true, but he still had to dominate it and take credit for it.  So part of the perfection he demanded was that I didn't know it (-- of course What Saint Would Know Of Her Own Perfection? -- ) or that I could be a self-denigrating, self-martyring doormat at his will.  If the Pygmalion statue/Frankenstein's monster/Stepford wife challenged him in any way, threatened his narcissism, just watch him throw fire bombs at it.  In private of course.

As Eliza Doolittle would say (blending every Cockney vowel) ---  "AAAAAAYEEEEOWWWWWWWWW"
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« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2010, 10:05:24 AM »

Mom. Fix my past, my present and my future. Rescue me from all the chaos that I engage... .and do it NOW! I demand you be always happy, nurturing, available, and never, ever show me that you are "human' as I CANNOT HANDLE anything but my perception of perfection. And just watch me implode when I perceive you to be of this earth.

That's pretty much exactly the case with my ex.  Not sure if it's 'mom' or 'dad' given she's female - doesn't really matter tho because the above isn't really gender specific.  Interestingly she kept claiming that she knew she had work to do, was committed to it, had to do it herself, etc, etc - but all words, never actions.

"I will want you to rescue me to draw you in, but then tell you rescuing is unhealthy to push you away.  And then complain when you get frustrated by the impossible situation."

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« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2010, 10:13:29 AM »

That's pretty much exactly the case with my ex.  Not sure if it's 'mom' or 'dad' given she's female - doesn't really matter tho because the above isn't really gender specific. 

True -- more like be the Better Parent to Me, The One Who Will Solve Everything.  Now.

Given my X, he has so much hatred for his Mom that I was put in a role to get the projected misogyny and to protect him in the ways his Mom never did.  What fun.   
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« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2010, 10:56:06 AM »

These past posts are very close to my situation too. He loved being around my family and me, loved the family unit. However when the focus wasn't on him, he seethed imploded. Our last gathering his family was with my family, his mother was there. I think it all came to a head for him... .the very woman he despised and made fun of was fond of me and my kids. Was she abusive, yes, she was and she knows it. She never articulated how sorry she is for abusing him but tried through actions to change the damage she created. He never would open up and see how difficult her life was, six kids all under the age of six, a controlling husband who was in and out of hospitals, and poverty. She had limited resources and had a break down. Tragic, all of it. He has not forgiven her although he will tell you he has.

He was triggered by the reality of my life, the nitty, gritty, every day up and down of being mom and grandma to a large family. I discussed my children and worried about them, looking back, he wanted to be the number one child... .yet pushed me away at times when I was nuturing and attentive to his needs. I wasn't always supportive of him in the ways he needed me to be but then those needs changed, as his whims would change. As I struggled in my life with the challenges I face, I just couldn't consistently and perfectly support him emotionally. I am human.

He was enraged and his rage was apparent on that last day. I am still healing over that day. It has taken time to understand I was violated, not physically, but emotionally. And emotional violation is as painful as physical, it doesn't have the concreteness of a physical violation which may be why it takes time to understand what is occurring within me. As I write this, I am trembling, thinking about what he said and how he said it... .and how absolutely devastated I was.
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« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2010, 12:47:49 PM »

It has taken time to understand I was violated, not physically, but emotionally. And emotional violation is as painful as physical, it doesn't have the concreteness of a physical violation which may be why it takes time to understand what is occurring within me. As I write this, I am trembling, thinking about what he said and how he said it... .and how absolutely devastated I was.

It's insidious, and what makes it more powerful is that it's so easily minimized by the abuser.  No visible bruises or scars, so (if there's any hint of admission at all) it easily goes to

"Why aren't you over it already?  I was just making a joke.  You take everything so seriously.  And what about the time you said _____ to me?"

Stuff that is said for maximum impact, no third party to witness, and then, how convenient, it can be denied later.  Any attempt we make at closure only serves to compound the abuse.  Punishment for not ignoring it like the pwBPD wants us to.
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« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2010, 11:43:25 PM »

Excerpt
It's insidious, and what makes it more powerful is that it's so easily minimized by the abuser.  No visible bruises or scars, so (if there's any hint of admission at all) it easily goes to

"Why aren't you over it already?  I was just making a joke.  You take everything so seriously.  And what about the time you said _____ to me?"

Stuff that is said for maximum impact, no third party to witness, and then, how convenient, it can be denied later.  Any attempt we make at closure only serves to compound the abuse.  Punishment for not ignoring it like the pwBPD wants us to.

Yes, that is what he said to me. I would have loved to have been a friend to him had he been able to address his words... he didn't. Although it was and still is very painful to completely let him go, I knew I needed too because any form of friendship would mean being drawn into the abuse. It hurts to do this, to deny him a friendship, but I force myself to look at it as I would one of my clients. What would I tell them should they ask my advice? I know the answer. If I were detached from the situation, I would see it very clearly. I miss him, still. But every day I remind myself he is abusive when triggered and I forced myself to confront him knowing it would send him into a seething rage and end any possibility of friendship. I even debated waiting until we were face to face to tell him he is an abuser. Once I did that, he threatened me with a NC order, his rage was so great.

Sigh. My underlying hope is this, that maybe he will someday get the help he needs and realize that I was such a friend, I wouldn't pretend for my selfish self interest. I cared enough to be honest and not allow him to "buy" my silence. I was silent for too long, ignored the sick feeling in my stomach for too long, in the hope that the man I loved would return. But that guy was the illusion. I was honest because I love him, anything else would be manipulation on my part and I know this. He will probably never get the help he needs and I must come to terms with knowing I will never see him again.

C

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kly
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Divorced. Briefly dated a pwBPD who turned into a stalker.
Posts: 1061


« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2010, 12:21:22 AM »

The BP didn't use a pedestal.  He gave generic compliments (quotes from songs) and used generic terms of endearment.  Of course, it was because he processed so many women through his revolving door (overlapping of course) that he couldn't keep all our names straight!

My BPDexMIL who was very negative toward me in person, would rave about me to her acquaintances.  She was always bragging about her kids, grandkids, friends in order to build herself up.  I'm sure if you'd heard her talking to me to my face, and then heard her talking about me, you wouldn't even know it was about the same person.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)



 
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RealEyes
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Divorced
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« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2010, 12:19:04 PM »

The BP didn't use a pedestal.  He gave generic compliments (quotes from songs) and used generic terms of endearment.  Of course, it was because he processed so many women through his revolving door (overlapping of course) that he couldn't keep all our names straight!

My BPDexMIL who was very negative toward me in person, would rave about me to her acquaintances.  She was always bragging about her kids, grandkids, friends in order to build herself up.  I'm sure if you'd heard her talking to me to my face, and then heard her talking about me, you wouldn't even know it was about the same person.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)



 

now that i think about it bc of this mindful thread,, i can recall feeling this way about my exBPDbf when he'd say things that were suppose to be deep n thought about his estranged family, exwives and children... .life in general,, and also about my D25 wth BPD that just got REreleased frm jail after attacking her 3x size bf. we feel it in our guts that something was paperthin here after hearing it, you know, not really real or enlightening as they want it to sound, which is so sad to actually feel from someone we care about :'(

wow, what a sad... .but needed,, revelation x
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