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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Why am I no longer 'black' but seems grey?  (Read 934 times)
lets
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« on: July 01, 2010, 07:53:08 PM »

Howdy,

I know this is the disengaging board and I am really realizing the disengagement is more a process than event.

My story is not unlike the rest that post- quick rundown:

-two years with uexBPD/NPDbf (we lived together for 1 year)

-asked for space for 1 month- but promised me all was ok etc etc

-during month I found out about an affair he was having (she thought she was his gf for several months)

-upon finding out about I found out about the affair, he painted me black, changed the locks on the house and in essence left me homeless

-started telling ppl, we had broken up along time ago so he didn't cheat, I wouldn't leave the house so he had to change the locks, etc (he has projected so much on me it is crazy (pardon the pun))

-telling ppl the reason we are not together , I am mean, all my fault, he was the perfect bf etc etc (again projection) and tells some he loves me

This all happened beginning May 14thish


-As of late - We have been txting (very minimal and I am trying to go NC). 

-His txts are at times nice and others very accusing of me (again all projection).  eg "You are all drama all the time" 

-A couple of days ago he actually called me and his message was bizarre "Hey its me, just calling to catch up with you give me a call" (I didn't return call)

-Now tomorrow he wants to come over to drop off my mail, the exchange was cordial but then he says "I'd be happy to come by anytime"  then "How is tomorrow - lunch"  He is acting like nothing has happened.  (all via txt)


My T and I have talked and we both agreed that it is best I let 'sleeping dogs lie' I'm not comfortable addressing all the problems and hurt as I know what his answers will be and his response will be more damaging to me than good.

Any interpretations?

At this point I'm almost curious- like who does what he did/does and then says - lunch?



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GCD145
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« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2010, 08:00:08 PM »

A crazy person, that's who.  A complete ___ing nutbag who will only hurt you again and again for as long as you allow him to.

When it comes to NC, I defer to Master Yoda: "Try not, do".  You have no kids together, you weren't married or involved in a business together, there is no reason you cannot cut this SOB out of your life like the tumor he is. You will be his victim for as long as you are in contact with him.

Just sayin'... .

 

GCD145

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Lizzie
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« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2010, 08:14:41 PM »

He's trying to get back in with you.  Maybe he's having troubles with his current relationship.  Maybe he's feeling engulfment in current relationship and engaging you relieves that pressure feeling. 

Is part of you hoping to get his answers or curious to see what his explanations would be?  It's human nature to be curious, to want those answers, and closure.  You know that there are no answers to be found with him.  If he is pwBPD the things you wrote out can and have been answered with the info. you've learned.  Are you vulnerable to him in the sense of any part of you that would like to get back together?

Stay strong!  Go over the negatives, keep writing it out, keep reading here, keep it fresh in your mind to remind yourself what he did to hurt you.  Don't let him suck you back in.  He doesn't deserve your attention or your texts after what he's done.  It's wrong, he hasn't shown signs of apology or making amends.  He continues to blame you. 
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diega
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« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2010, 08:21:07 PM »

Howdy,

I know this is the disengaging board and I am really realizing the disengagement is more a process than event.

My story is not unlike the rest that post- quick rundown:

-two years with uexBPD/NPDbf (we lived together for 1 year)

-asked for space for 1 month- but promised me all was ok etc etc

-during month I found out about an affair he was having (she thought she was his gf for several months)

-upon finding out about I found out about the affair, he painted me black, changed the locks on the house and in essence left me homeless

-started telling ppl, we had broken up along time ago so he didn't cheat, I wouldn't leave the house so he had to change the locks, etc (he has projected so much on me it is crazy (pardon the pun))

-telling ppl the reason we are not together , I am mean, all my fault, he was the perfect bf etc etc (again projection) and tells some he loves me

This all happened beginning May 14thish


-As of late - We have been txting (very minimal and I am trying to go NC). 

-His txts are at times nice and others very accusing of me (again all projection).  eg "You are all drama all the time" 

-A couple of days ago he actually called me and his message was bizarre "Hey its me, just calling to catch up with you give me a call" (I didn't return call)

-Now tomorrow he wants to come over to drop off my mail, the exchange was cordial but then he says "I'd be happy to come by anytime"  then "How is tomorrow - lunch"  He is acting like nothing has happened.  (all via txt)


My T and I have talked and we both agreed that it is best I let 'sleeping dogs lie' I'm not comfortable addressing all the problems and hurt as I know what his answers will be and his response will be more damaging to me than good.

Any interpretations?

At this point I'm almost curious- like who does what he did/does and then says - lunch?

-----------------------------------------

a lot of them do what he does. this is classic BPD. you're black one minute and white or gray the next. its jsut typcial.

this is why you left hiim in the first place right- cuase of his BPD behavior? well this is BPD behavior.

its hard to not believe him when he is acting so nicely, so thats why people advise NC.

we all know its part of BPD and eventually you will be painted black again and  retraumatized.

hence, we all want you to go NC to spare you this pain.

since you've been without him, why set yourself up for possibly getting hooked up again?

dont let his temporary 'niceness' or whatver it is make yu forget the hell he has put you through.

and i dont belive he really cares but that he jsut needs something from you at this moment.

of course part of us hoes this time he wont change... but if he has BPD... then


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lets
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« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2010, 08:49:57 PM »

Thanks all, and GCD of course you Smiling (click to insert in post)

I guess I'm having a hard time intellectualizing the why's

a) he tells a friend yesterday, how mean I am, Its all about me, I have fits but he loves me (of course he did all those things- projection)

b) says he is coming over for lunch a couple hours later

Crazy is the word, with a massive amount of confusing!  I am curious as to what he plans to say to me, break bread and shoot the breeze?  Know what I'm sayin'

I thought when you were painted black you were tossed into a black hole never to be seen again, his opinion of me seems to change by the hour... and so soon after the 'incidents'

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lets
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« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2010, 08:52:30 PM »

One kinda chuckle...

when chatting yesterday with a mutual friend he tells her-

"I'm not getting into any relationships they are all drama, I'm tired of the drama"

heck, now having two gf's who find out about each other would bring on some drama hehe

Then he txt's me and says "you are all drama all the time"

Irony hehe
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« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2010, 08:58:40 PM »

Splitting isn't an all or nothing thing.  They can go back and forth with it, I've read people saying they were split white 40% of the time and black 60%. 

The guy that I'm almost, just about broken up with can go back and forth between overvaluing me and devaluing me.  Sometimes I'm to blame for everything, other times he's to blame for everything.  It's not something where the switch flips and you are black forever. 

Apparently it can depend on deep seated issues that you can never find the true source of.  They can be triggered into turning someone black and you'll have no clue what the trigger was.  From what I've seen, it's also a matter of convenience.  When it's beneficial for them you are white when it's beneficial for them you are the sacrificial lamb, and all black. 
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« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2010, 09:03:20 PM »

I thought when you were painted black you were tossed into a black hole never to be seen again, his opinion of me seems to change by the hour... and so soon after the 'incidents'

The rapid switching is the "object constancy" part of BPD.  Things are never grey, they're either black or white, but they switch, sometimes in minutes. They're not constant.

Seriously, I know I come across as some major gruff a$$hole, but every minute you spend thinking about him is one minute you don't spend thinking about what's really important: you.  You can't do anything to change him, and the only way you will ever really understand him is if you become a crazy person, too.  You can, however, learn a great deal about yourself, and why you got trapped in the situation you did.

GCD145
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« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2010, 09:06:59 PM »

Thanks for your insight Lizzie!

Interesting you say that (when it is beneficial for them), as luck would have it since he kicked me out etc, I got a GREAT job that allows me alot of travel something that he loves and normally he would have been travelling with me reaping the rewards.  Also he has found out that I am in a good financial position again (he loved me spoiling him and is motivated by spending other peoples (mine) money)... I'm really proud of myself for persevering through all his crap over the past year!

Silly guy if he just would have held on for another month, he would have had it made... . would they be that selfish to again see the 'benefits' of being with me and try to exploit?
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lets
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« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2010, 09:09:15 PM »

GCD,

I love your insights... .you have helped me a great deal, you and thisblonde!

In the early days of my disaster you two gave me the tough love- often when I have picked up my phone to txt or contact I have thought of the arse chews you two would give me and I put the phone down (well about 85% of the time).

never change!
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« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2010, 09:14:05 PM »

I thought when you were painted black you were tossed into a black hole never to be seen again, his opinion of me seems to change by the hour... and so soon after the 'incidents'

The rapid switching is the "object constancy" part of BPD.  Things are never grey, they're either black or white, but they switch, sometimes in minutes. They're not constant.

Seriously, I know I come across as some major gruff a$$hole, but every minute you spend thinking about him is one minute you don't spend thinking about what's really important: you.  You can't do anything to change him, and the only way you will ever really understand him is if you become a crazy person, too.  You can, however, learn a great deal about yourself, and why you got trapped in the situation you did.

GCD145

you'e not an a=hole at all. you are direct and honest but you are not obnoxious about it.and your post is so true. it is that object constancy.
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« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2010, 09:22:43 PM »

I was going to quote a couple of posts but then realised I'be quoting everything.

My ex-bf did the same as yours.  I left (6 times) each time (and again now) I get the messages - do you want to catch up?

Yep, the curiousity always got to me - maybe he had realised the error of his ways, maybe he was going to change, maybe, maybe, maybe.

The fact is they don't.  Period.  They say they will, do anything to get you back.  The only time it actually worked best for me was when I packed his stuff, met calmly with him, gave it back and said "I care - but it's just not going to work".   Smiling, happy, no sarcasm.  Two weeks later he's texting me in the middle of the night, blind drunk, saying he's out and going to pick up if i don't let him come over.  I told him to go right ahead.  This goes on for about an hour, then he tells me he's catching a cab over.  He arrives, all smiles and loving and I absolutely sliced and diced him - confronting him with evidence of being on a dating site while we were together that he'd been denying for two weeks.  He lost it absolutely for about 24 hrs.  After that he went into therapy but, once he stopped, it all went pear-shaped again.

I know your curiosity is getting the better of you.  Mine too again now he's emailing me wanting to catch up.  But you know (don't you?) that it's only going to be more of the same.

The magic "realisation moment" is never going to come.

GDC is right to dish out the "tough love".  You're not the only one who appreciates it.

x





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« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2010, 05:27:51 PM »

Well... .

I went ahead with the lunch which I believe is a good thing and believe it or not is helping me with closure (I was not dealing well with the switch off part of the break up).

He came over, told my dog how much he loved him and looked at me and said "now I won't feel that way about you - you have alot of repairing to do on our relationship"  (Of course it was him that had the affair, left me homeless etc etc). 

We made small talk and then he just went into how bad I am (even though I have some good things about me), what I need to fix, etc etc - all the points he brought up about me are frankly the things IMO he needs to fix (projection) before he would consider being around me.  It was his idea for lunch!

laughable really!  I am starting to both intellectually and emotionally believe he is pd (you know how that part gets confusing).

NC is my next step as odd as it sounds I needed today to speed up my closure

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« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2010, 05:17:23 AM »

Excerpt
At this point I'm almost curious- like who does what he did/does and then says - lunch?

Excerpt
A crazy person, that's who.  A complete ___ing nutbag who will only hurt you again and again for as long as you allow him to.

I spend so much time intellectualizing BPD and then someone else comes along and lays it out so brilliantly  that it makes me burst into laughter.

But let's, I do feel your pain.  Sometimes a good bit of nonsense goes a long way towards acceptance of an unwell Human. When you catch yourself shaking your head over the things they do, you'll realize that no amount of logic is needed- it's just raw bad behavior on their part.  The danger is in their reaction formations, when they project blame and really become sadistic in their manipulations. The truth for me, at least, is that the manipulations worked a few times- and I did take the blame. That was a lesson that I learned the hard way. Eventually I drew rock solid boundaries, but I have to say, the worst boundary crasher is your own mind. That last word that has to be spoken. Eventually, you'll need to let that go.

Healing isn't done overnight. Like you said, it's a process- and one that you shouldn't feel badly about. We all returned back for more, each time learning something in the process. Think of it as honing your edge. You will eventually determine what's enough.  When enough is enough- you'll know. And you'll feel better when you reach it. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2010, 06:37:19 AM »

I  have gotten almost the same sort of texts/messages from my now ex BPD bf.   Sometimes I get messages completly out of context and after a nastygram.   My theory is that they dialed or texted the wrong person (i.e us).   on some of them... .

and I agree with Lizzie that he is trying to reopen the door and leave his options open, in case the new one doesnt work out.    Remember the BPD can't be alone... .

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lets
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« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2010, 09:20:40 AM »

One thing I am learning is I have alot of work to do on my boundaries!  Yesterday was a rough day as I'm sure it was for alot of us being a holiday and all.  I did go NC!

Just wanted to share he emailed me yesterday morning- subject line:  "This would make my day"  with a link to a ping pong table.  Before the whole 'thing' went down we had talked about getting one for the house we lived in.  Just so random. Does he really expect me to buy him that... geez!

I have of course thought about our lunch and have analyzed it almost line by line (sad really)  a couple things he said:

-I will know you have changed because I'll be watching you- he said this a couple of times (it wasn't threatening or anything but in retrospect kind of eerie with everything I have read on this board)

-"Life can't be perfect, there is alot of co-existing that has to happen- just day to day stuff".  I can't remember his exact wording but it was a 360 from his regular- everything is or must be perfect speech... .I'm wondering if he is back in therapy?

Anyway- thank you so much for the insight and I guess as GCD says- no matter how hard you try you can't make sense of crazy...

Happy 4th!

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« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2010, 07:48:59 AM »

lets-

Good for you on NC.  It really is the only way you can protect yourself from his machinations.  I have to say that your guy sounds a little more calculating than some pwBPD, so maybe there's some NPD or APD as well.  He really seems almost sociopathic to me.  The important thing is that you protect yourself from him.  I've said this before, and I'll say it again: he can't mess with you head if he can't get in touch with you.

I was away over the weekend, but I came back to see a bunch of "he/ she contacted me" posts.  Even knowing that a text was sent can destroy your progress towards recovery.  That's why the best thing to do is change your phone number, or block him.  You might think that you won't read them so what does it matter, but just knowing that he tried to contact you could set you back.

GCD145
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« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2010, 11:23:56 PM »

Interesting maybe but I'm sure you heard it before... .

July 4th - Mutual friends invite me to a ball game with them and their 2 kids, they also invited the ex... .I went thinking I could be strong (the mutual friends I think are trying to 'get us back together' not knowing the extent of the situation).

At the ball game he sat beside me, was soo touchy feely and when we left he held my hand for a few seconds, then dropped it 'saying out loud, we can't hold hands we are just friends' then gave me a love pat on the behind to which I said please don't do that... .throughout the night he was openly reminiscing about the good times and talking like we were still together? I was just pleasant as I still feel sorry for him and sadly am curious... .  he called me later that night to make sure I got home ok and to let me know he had a great time (I didn't answer he left a message).

Of course, he has not contacted me since... .

In retrospect I should not have gone and if I did should have had stronger boundaries (I talked with my T last night about it all)

But what the heck? Guess I was white again for a few hours... .

It was a lesson learned it is just that our lives are so entwined, the only friends I have in town are his friends (I know I need to make new friends)

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« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2010, 11:26:02 PM »

I have also deduced that he was in therapy for a mood/personality disorder in the past and uses many of the practices/tools of dbt so I believe he is back in therapy. 


He did not tell me this, I have just been researching and with the space putting pieces of info together... .
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« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2010, 07:14:24 AM »

Interesting maybe but I'm sure you heard it before... .

July 4th - Mutual friends invite me to a ball game with them and their 2 kids, they also invited the ex... .I went thinking I could be strong (the mutual friends I think are trying to 'get us back together' not knowing the extent of the situation).

At the ball game he sat beside me, was soo touchy feely and when we left he held my hand for a few seconds, then dropped it 'saying out loud, we can't hold hands we are just friends' then gave me a love pat on the behind to which I said please don't do that... .throughout the night he was openly reminiscing about the good times and talking like we were still together? I was just pleasant as I still feel sorry for him and sadly am curious... .  he called me later that night to make sure I got home ok and to let me know he had a great time (I didn't answer he left a message).

Of course, he has not contacted me since... .

In retrospect I should not have gone and if I did should have had stronger boundaries (I talked with my T last night about it all)

But what the heck? Guess I was white again for a few hours... .

It was a lesson learned it is just that our lives are so entwined, the only friends I have in town are his friends (I know I need to make new friends)

Wow, lets, that sounds like it must have been really rough! DId you know the ex was invited? It sure sounds like it.

I'm confused by you.  I think you probably actually want him back.

If you want to get back together with him, then you should do that.  It's your life, no one can make decisions for you, and you should do what you want to do.  L4 can offer you a great deal of support.  They're nice people- nicer than me for sure!

GCD145
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« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2010, 07:48:55 AM »

Hey GCD,

You know I was worried about your response to my post, I actually felt guilty for posting it!  I know you will speak the truth and enjoy that.

I did know he would be there and I had convinced myself it 'was no big deal'.  I guess the timing was prime, I had a rough day on Saturday and then was invited on Sunday so it made me feel better.  I truly had no intention of re-engaging with him, I thought he would hang out with the guy and I would hang out with the girl- I was shocked how he clung to me.

To be 100% honest, it felt good and comfortable but I did have a startling realization, when I was getting dropped off at my place he was sitting in the front seat, I in the back and I just felt sick to my stomach, like there he is happy as a clam seeming unscathed by anything he put me through and then my mind went to how could you have an affair after everything?  You know perhaps a reality check who knows.

We have both been invited to a kids birthday party on Friday, I'm undecided if I will go- part of me thinks "he has cost me so much I don't want to lose my friends as well" and the other part of me thinks "screw it, how could any of you be friends with someone like him"  Could I go and be the 'good person' - probably.  Could I go and get sucked back into his psyche- probably.

You know I have shared the ballgame thing with noone but the people that were there and you all on this board- I think that is telling...

My T is recommending CC, if I can handle it as he feels the ex will smear campaign me.

Me - I'm really re-evaluating my whole life and where I want to be which may include actually moving to a different state.

I do agree a very small part of me wants him back, albeit I intellectually know that is a recipe for disaster, I'm still struggling with the compassion I have for him and am working on shifting that compassion to myself Smiling (click to insert in post).

Process, process

GCD- you are hard on yourself- the good thing (I think anyway) is I knew what you would say but still wanted to hear it... .Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2010, 08:03:40 AM »

lets-

I get PMs sometimes from people who really blast me for what I post, so that's why I seem hard on myself.

I'm glad you posted your story. 

You should do what you feel comfortable doing.  I wouldn't want to be around your ex if I were you.  No, that's not right: I wouldn't be able to be around him.  I would be too panicked. For me it would be a huge deal. If you felt good and comfortable being around him, then it works for you.  I think you should look into the concept of radical acceptance.  I think your ex is NPD or APD, but it may be that you can accept that and live with it.  Maybe the good parts outweigh the bad- they wouldn't for me, but we're all different.

If you don't want to stay in the relationship, you're probably going to have to do something.  Do your friends know what happened?  It's hard to imagine friends knowing how he treated you and still trying to get you back together, or inviting both of you to events.  Have you talked with them?  Maybe they're crummy friends?

Moving might ultimately be required.  I know other posters who are i the same situation, and are thinking about moving.  I was going to quit a great job (I pretty much can't be fired) and move if my stbxw hadn't left town when I went NC.  You have to do what you have to do.

x

GCD145

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« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2010, 08:16:40 AM »

The good DID outweigh the bad until the infidelity came out and then he changed the locks... .hence the situation.

He has major NPD traits I have to check out apd, to be honest he has such a mix, he does have BPD stuff as well... a mess really.

Since not being with him I am beginning to understand his disorder much better and am able to better 'translate' perhaps the FOG is lifting, I am happier not being with him, the eggshells are gone!  You know it is that thing we have all been through, he was Mr. Wonderful at the ballgame, it brings you back to the wonderful days and makes it easier to forget the crap... .I am looking to completely disengage and I think a new city will help that greatly!

PM's eh?  i like you style & opinion!

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