Not all of them try to come back

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Granted my ex is udBPD, but I would bet money that she is, and, if not, some other form of cluster b.

I wanted to throw this out there because I keep reading on the boards about how they always make attempts at coming back into our lives.  I have been 8 months NC and firmly believe she's gone for good.  However, the moment she tries I will admit to it here and correct myself.

[David Dare]

Granted my ex is udBPD, but I would bet money that she is, and, if not, some other form of cluster b.

I wanted to throw this out there because I keep reading on the boards about how they always make attempts at coming back into our lives.  I have been 8 months NC and firmly believe she's gone for good.  However, the moment she tries I will admit to it here and correct myself.

[duncanville1]

True enough, I think allot of it has to do with "enabling" the cycle. IE; if they can find some other place to get their needs met. Yea you won't hear back from them.

[David Dare]

Precisely.

[thomaso61]

I heard some with stronger NPD traits never come back... Once the wall is up, they are gone for good.

[David Dare]

Good point, one which I believe applies to my ex.  And, in a way, I think it says something positive about myself.  I think she sensed that, despite the fog I was in at the time, I simply was not going to back down from my logical, rational approach to life, something that didn't mesh well with her impulsive, unrealistic, grandiose lifestyle. 

[eng123]

I have been wondering the same thing recently after 6 months since the "vanishing."   I had gotten the impression from many posts that a pwBPD was very likely to "bounce back" at any given moment.  I guess part of the reason that I am mildly suprised that she hasn't tried to come back is because I have no idea what triggered her to disappear (and as far as I know it is not someone new).   

I find it confusing because I was extremely kind, hard working, together, smart, and stable in comparison to her previous bfs.  I think it is very odd that I would be totally cut out of her life when "somehow" the old bfs always seemed to get ther number and try to call, leave messages etc... .Part of it may be that I made it very clear that she needed to get help with BPD and I did not want her in my life if she would not work take meds and get therapy after she disappeared for 8 weeks (I also previously said that about 1 year ago before I knew anything about BPD when I just thought she had severe depression - she understood then). 

I think that the lack of "bounce back" comes from: 1)  I asked her to speak to her therapist about BPD to get help 2) I learned and then gave her as much info on BPD, depression, cutting, etc... .as I could buy 3)  I told her I was getting help because it was too hard to handle alone 4) I made pretty bulletproof arguements about why I thought she had BPD and how it affected me 4) she owes me money (big) 5) she hates to argue or have disagreements 6) she knows I don't want to go back to the way it was.

She said that I would never understand about 9 months ago when I first brought up BPD, I did not believe it at the time - now I know that I truly don't and won't ever understand.

[left4good]

I would have thought that her knowing that I could see right thru her game would have made her

run and not return. 

I won't say that they all come back,  but 6-8 months is a very short time frame.  Don't count them out.  In my case I had a uBPDex come back after 16 years.  Another ex (the most BPD and classic) came back after a year and a half,  and the most recent has never left.  We remain LC due to a child,  but her tactics changed and she is full on wanting "us" back. 

Each one of these girls knows that i've seen them for who they are.  They know that I did the research,  talk on here and have been to a counselor.  It didn't sway them. 

My case may be unique,  but they have returned. 

Keep up the NC.  Don't compromise your standards or limits. 

[gary1958]

Mine... .18 months before first contact... .then 3 months... .then a month... .then 6 months... .now it has been almost a year... .When she ended it she said that her love for me was different and that she never wanted to see or talk to me again... .go figure... .I should add that I have never responded to any off her attempts at re-engagement. Why would I... .she never wanted to see or talk to me again... .right

[Freckles14]

eng123, not sure if this is true for all people with BPD but I think it really doesnt matter how nice of a guy you were - how good looking, how polite and thoughtful or how much you try to help either. It's all about them.

My ex uBPD seemed to never get his mind of himself and his needs. Nothing I could ever do or say would touch him. When you're in the middle of it, it makes you doubt your value as a human being - at least it did for me. I felt like a disposable doll. (still do)

I kind of wonder if part of them hates us for being so kind and good to them when they are so crappy to us. /shrug

[hendo123]

I think that the lack of "bounce back" comes from: 1)  I asked her to speak to her therapist about BPD to get help 2) I learned and then gave her as much info on BPD, depression, cutting, etc... .as I could buy 3)  I told her I was getting help because it was too hard to handle alone 4) I made pretty bulletproof arguements about why I thought she had BPD and how it affected me 4) she owes me money (big) 5) she hates to argue or have disagreements 6) she knows I don't want to go back to the way it was.

Thats a pretty impressive list of trying to set boundaries and enabling her to seek help 

Its probably easier to move on, with someone new, who doesn't have the same level of insight. Then, you can pretend the problem doesn't exist, until the crash happens. Again.

[NewStart]

DD - I thought the same thing, my uBPDexgf disappeared and went 100% NC for almost a year and is just now trying to engage via email... .so I think you never know when but if the need strikes them they will reach out.

Don't wish for it as I am still REALLY in an epic internal struggle about what if anything I should do or say in response.  One thing is for sure the longer the timeframe the more of a surprise that contact is... .I remember seeing her name in my email inbox and just being rocked... .

Stay strong and be at peace with NC as it really does help one move forward and not back.

[ravill]

I think missing them when they leave cold turkey does hurt.

IT IS WHAT MAKES US NORMAL.

I have been left before, cold turkey, just like that. Shiza, did that hurt.

I took me a months to get over her and we had just one INTENSE week.

I still think about her everyonce and awhile. And yes, NC helped me move forward, not backwards, I'm with Newstart on that one.

I don't think she was BPD, just didn't like me anymore, bummer.

If a BPD leaves us and doesn't come back, then whew, we will grieve normally and move on.  I am SOO ready to grieve normally and move on.

And her sweetness lures me right back in... .Maybe one. More. Hit... .

ugh... .

[confusedmale]

I think missing them when they leave cold turkey does hurt.

IT IS WHAT MAKES US NORMAL.

I took me a months to get over her and we had just one INTENSE week.

I don't think she was BPD, just didn't like me anymore, bummer.

If a BPD leaves us and doesn't come back, then whew, we will grieve normally and move on.  I am SOO ready to grieve normally and move on.

I had 15 intensive months to ponder what was happening. I was told to leave her at 6 months and again at 11 months and finally at 15 months. She bounced back after one week the first time and then 5 weeks the second time but now she is going to divorce me. I guess it takes 6 months in the state I live in the file for a non violent type divorce.

What I can't figure out is why I am so empty inside? She is not a very pretty lady, She is not sexually seductive. She is not anything but a needy person, but why am I so needy? IS that normal?

I should be happy to get rid of her, but I am not? I guess I need psychiatric help to over come this feeling of loss! I wish I knew why?

[The_411]

 Why do women who have been abused keep returning to their abusive husbands etc ... .  intermittent reinforcement.

The time frames vary greatly.  Also the comorbidity of other PDs can effect the chance that they return, but mostly as mentioned earlier it's dependent upon their needs getting met. If they are then they don't need you. If they aren't getting their honeymoon "love" they come back to you to create drama and use you as a placeholder until they can find a new target.

They also typically don't return if they know you know about their BPD.

[ravill]

I think missing them when they leave cold turkey does hurt.

IT IS WHAT MAKES US NORMAL.

I took me a months to get over her and we had just one INTENSE week.

I don't think she was BPD, just didn't like me anymore, bummer.

If a BPD leaves us and doesn't come back, then whew, we will grieve normally and move on.  I am SOO ready to grieve normally and move on.

I had 15 intensive months to ponder what was happening. I was told to leave her at 6 months and again at 11 months and finally at 15 months. She bounced back after one week the first time and then 5 weeks the second time but now she is going to divorce me. I guess it takes 6 months in the state I live in the file for a non violent type divorce.

What I can't figure out is why I am so empty inside? She is not a very pretty lady, She is not sexually seductive. She is not anything but a needy person, but why am I so needy? IS that normal?

I should be happy to get rid of her, but I am not? I guess I need psychiatric help to over come this feeling of loss! I wish I knew why?

Hey man, you may or may not need psychiatric help, but the reason why? It is because you are normal man.

It is normal to feel loss and to grieve and to be confused.

That's why man

[confusedmale]

Hey man, you may or may not need psychiatric help, but the reason why? It is because you are normal man.

It is normal to feel loss and to grieve and to be confused.

That's why man


Thanks for listening and telling me the truth. Sometimes I think we men are like dumb dogs. Just pat us on the head and say to us "nice boy", and we are happy as a pig in slop!

[ravill]

And most importantly,

You are not alone.

Not even a little bit. Sorry that sounds trite.

Most people can't even begin to understand our situation. We can. We've been there. Some of us are still on that rollercoaster, reeling, wondering, why can't we get off.

Its nice to look down the train and see others that think the EXACT same thing we do.

And its even BETTER to see others OFF the train and come here to share with us.

Peace to you brother.

[MTTYBNAMAT]

It seems to me that if the man has the BPD in the relationship they most likely seem to have a heavy dose of NPD with it and I think they view their SO as a possession and will make a quicker attempt to make contact. But if the woman has the BPD in the relationship and she is the one to leave chances are she has a backup plan in place and probably won't make an attempt to reconnect until that relationship has problems or it doesn't supply all her needs. Conversely if  the SO leaves the woman with BPD she has abandonment issues triggered quicker and will make more dramatic attempts to keep you close. IMHO

[waterrat]

Hmmm... .good topic.

My ex being what I believe to be a combo uBPD/NPD did both.  SHE came back twice with what I know now where empty apologies, as we have all learned due to her needs!  Silly me believed her      Each time we broke up was because I stood my ground and questioned her behavior wanting to know why she was treating /speaking to me the way she did.  Bam, done, raging mind f@@k roller coaster ride what the hell just happened conversation.

Anyway, now I believe she is gone for good, as soon as I mentioned the Cluster B stuff and told her exactly what I thought... .bbbvvvtttt black as black can be   I am a little over 1 yr out and 8 months solid no contact. And not a peep from her... .although as I was typing this my phone rang twice and stopped ?  I don't have call display on my home phone.  

Who knows, but in my opinion, when they realize that they can't get any more out of you... .they are gone.  Thank God

[duncanville1]

Just a thought, the last few weeks what i have noticed on the many re-engagements. I am sure she misses me, that is a part of it. But, I notice she keeps bringing up a control dynamic, almost a game. She asks, of " I am willing to play by her rules?". I think she is seeing how far she can push me, if she can push me far enough it might be worth her time? She wants me to support her treatment, but she talks about how she doesn't want to go? I am pretty much at a loss with it, the thought process is just not rational.

[finally]

I heard some with stronger NPD traits never come back... Once the wall is up, they are gone for good.

100% agree with this... .he has never tried once... .and we were married and still need to finalise divorce... .its all good by me!

[2010]

Never forget that this disorder is news to you while the Borderline has had it since the age of 3. She's watched and mirrored people closely in order to survive and much of that behavior includes passive aggression.

Borderlines define reality by what they know and what they believe and then what they do about it. For the most part, the one way to use what little power they think they have is to do less than 50% of the social interaction when they feel persecuted. (and they always feel persecuted)

None of this has to do with you- even though it feels like it. You are just a stand-in for someone else who lives psychically inside their mind. They will not respond or reach out to you because the disorder demands that they feign impotence and incompetence (masochism)- and this simulation insures your involvement as a person that is always working hard to "help" them. When they quit on you they've turned you intrapsychically into a person who finds fault, criticizes and basically becomes an unpleasant person with faulty leadership, one who exudes bullying (a sadist)... .exactly like their parent.

Borderline and Narcissism are closely related but different in how they perceive other people. Borderlines are you will ":)o-Me" people while Narcissists are I will ":)o-You." Both have hidden agendas.

[finally]

Never forget that this disorder is news to you while the Borderline has had it since the age of 3. She's watched and mirrored people closely in order to survive and much of that behavior includes passive aggression.

Borderlines define reality by what they know and what they believe and then what they do about it. For the most part, the one way to use what little power they think they have is to do less than 50% of the social interaction when they feel persecuted.

None of this has to do with you- even though it feels like it. You are just a stand-in for someone else who lives psychically inside their mind. They will not respond or reach out to you because the disorder demands that they feign impotence and incompetence (masochism)- and this simulation insures your involvement as a person that is always working hard to "help" them. When they quit on you they've turned you intrapsychically into a person who finds fault, criticizes and basically becomes an unpleasant person with faulty leadership, one who exudes bullying (a sadist)... .exactly like their parent.

Borderline and Narcissism are closely related but different in how they perceive other people. Borderlines are you will ":)o-Me" people while Narcissists are I will ":)o-You." Both have hidden agendas.

interesting and good analyses!

[snowwhite]

My experience was different.  Although it was ten years later that he divorced his second wife, I found out from his mother after his death that he had talked with her about getting back together with me.  And even 20 years after we divorced, he tried to contact me.  So don't let your guard down.  They never do.

[gentleman66]

I would have thought that her knowing that I could see right thru her game would have made her

run and not return. 

I won't say that they all come back,  but 6-8 months is a very short time frame.  Don't count them out.  In my case I had a uBPDex come back after 16 years.  Another ex (the most BPD and classic) came back after a year and a half,  and the most recent has never left.  We remain LC due to a child,  but her tactics changed and she is full on wanting "us" back. 

Each one of these girls knows that i've seen them for who they are.  They know that I did the research,  talk on here and have been to a counselor.  It didn't sway them. 

My case may be unique,  but they have returned. 

Keep up the NC.  Don't compromise your standards or limits. 

It appears that  you are a  magnet for BPDs.  ?

[gentleman66]

Never forget that this disorder is news to you while the Borderline has had it since the age of 3. She's watched and mirrored people closely in order to survive and much of that behavior includes passive aggression.

Borderlines define reality by what they know and what they believe and then what they do about it. For the most part, the one way to use what little power they think they have is to do less than 50% of the social interaction when they feel persecuted. (and they always feel persecuted)

None of this has to do with you- even though it feels like it. You are just a stand-in for someone else who lives psychically inside their mind. They will not respond or reach out to you because the disorder demands that they feign impotence and incompetence (masochism)- and this simulation insures your involvement as a person that is always working hard to "help" them. When they quit on you they've turned you intrapsychically into a person who finds fault, criticizes and basically becomes an unpleasant person with faulty leadership, one who exudes bullying (a sadist)... .exactly like their parent.

Borderline and Narcissism are closely related but different in how they perceive other people. Borderlines are you will ":)o-Me" people while Narcissists are I will ":)o-You." Both have hidden agendas.

2010: Are narcissists and BPds attracted to each other? My exBPDgf kept accusing me of being a narcissist.

[David Dare]

My ex accused me of being a narcissist as well.  I denied it at the time, because I felt like she was attacking me, but after months of learning am wondering if maybe I'm a passive narcissist.  I have no desire to control people against their will, to mindf#ck them, and I don't look at people as objects.

[ccruns]

Freckles-i liked your quote-"I kind of wonder if part of them hates us for being so kind and good to them when they are so crappy to us". I was w/ a 40 year old man who told me his mother was happy I was not w/ him because I was not good for him. The guy has never been married, no kids, and a series of bad relationships! Guess mom was right---shrug

[2010]

Are narcissists and BPds attracted to each other?

Match made in Heaven, and I'll tell you why. The Narcissist develops a grandiose false self to prove his existence. This false self "subsumes" other people under the umbrella of his grandiosity. The Narcissist objectifies and acquires other people to serve as extensions of himself. These other people are to behave as right arms of his personality, to adore and provide attention and to serve as repositories of past glory- in case his narcissistic supply (attention from others) gets low.

The Borderline, on the other hand, has no grandiose false self- she's never been allowed it- except to mirror it back to someone else -OR- in offering something absolutely unique to the Narcissist which the Narcissist cannot obtain anywhere else. No grandiosity is permitted, except in dangerous, forbidden fantasy.

In his book , Malignant Self Love, Sam Vaknin describes an inverted narcissist: (IMO, the same can be said of BPD)

1) Possesses a rigid sense of lack of self-worth. Her sense of self-worth does not fluctuate. It is rather stable – but it is very low. Whereas the narcissist devalues others – she devalues herself as an offering, a sacrifice to the narcissist. She is compelled to filter all of her narcissistic needs through the primary narcissist in her life. Independence or personal autonomy are not permitted. She feels amplified by the narcissist's running commentary (because nothing can be accomplished by her without the approval of a primary narcissist in her life (the stand-in for the parent)

2) Pre-occupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance and beauty or of an ideal of love but only with a primary narcissist to filter the praise, adulation or accomplishments through.

3) Believes that she is absolutely un-unique and un-special (i.e., worthless and not worthy of merger with the fantasized ideal) and that no one at all could understand her because she is innately unworthy of being understood. She becomes very agitated the more one tries to understand her because that also offends against her righteous sense of being properly excluded from the human race. The "righteous sense of being properly excluded" comes from the sadistic Superego in concert with the "overbearing, externally reinforced, conscience."

A sense of worthlessness is typical of many other PDs (as well as the feeling that no one could ever understand them). The narcissist himself endures prolonged periods of self-devaluation, self-deprecation and self-effacement. This is part of the Narcissistic Cycle. In this sense, she is a partial narcissist. She is permanently fixated in a part of his narcissistic cycle, (self loathing) never to experience its complementary half: the narcissistic grandiosity and sense of entitlement *except when attached to the Narcissist*

4) Lacks empathy. Is intensely attuned to others' needs, but only in so far as it relates to her own need to perform the required self-sacrifice, which in turn is necessary in order for her to obtain her sense of self.

5) WAIF and HERMIT Borderlines: Envy others. Cannot conceive of being envied and becomes extremely agitated and uncomfortable if even brought into a situation where comparison might occur. Loathes competition and avoids competition at all costs, if there is any chance of actually winning the competition, or being singled out.

6) Displays extreme shyness, lack of any real relational connections, is publicly self-effacing in the extreme. QUEEN BORDERLINE:  is internally highly moralistic and critical of others; is a perfectionist and engages in lengthy ritualistic behaviours, which can never be perfectly performed (obsessive-compulsive, though not necessarily to the full extent exhibited in Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder).

Envious of other people's achievements, their ability to feel wholeness, happiness, rewards and successes. When her sense of self-worthlessness is diminished by a behaviour, a comment, an event, when her lack of self-worth and voided self-esteem is threatened. Thus, she might surprisingly react violently or wrathfully to GOOD things: a kind remark, a mission accomplished, a reward, a compliment, a proposition, or a sexual advance.

…When thinking about the past, when emotions and memories are evoked (usually negative ones) by certain music, a given smell, or sight.

…When her pathological envy leads to an all-pervasive sense of injustice and being discriminated against or deprived by a spiteful world.

…When she comes across stupidity, avarice, dishonesty, bigotry – it is these qualities in herself that she really fears and rejects so vehemently in others.

…When she believes that she failed (and she always entertains this belief), that she is imperfect and useless and worthless, a good for nothing half-baked creature.

…When she realises to what extent her inner demons possess her, constrain her life, torment her, deform her and the hopelessness of it all. (annihilation)

When she rages, she becomes verbally and emotionally abusive. She uncannily spots and attacks the vulnerabilities of her target, and mercilessly drives home the poisoned dagger of despair and self-loathing until it infects her adversary.

The calm after such a storm is even eerier, a thundering silence. She regrets her behaviour. She nurtures her negative emotions as yet another weapon of self-destruction and self-defeat. It is from this repressed self-contempt and sadistic self-judgement that her rage springs forth.

The Narcissist and the Borderline become a self supporting symbiotic system. The Cluster B groupings are very similar to each other but one creates a false self to succeed and the other creates a false self to sacrifice.

What's important here is that even if you are NOT a Narcissist- a Borderline PD will assume you are one. That's because your sense of SELF is needed to attach to- and BPD is an attachment disorder. Your self will be mirrored and used and eventually fragmented by her behavior.

www.samvak.tripod.com/faq66.html

[mindful]

Don't wish for it as I am still REALLY in an epic internal struggle about what if anything I should do or say in response.  One thing is for sure the longer the timeframe the more of a surprise that contact is... .I remember seeing her name in my email inbox and just being rocked... .

Stay strong and be at peace with NC as it really does help one move forward and not back.

New Start:

Have you thought about blocking the email so you never see the attempts... .with gmail it will auto delete an address you block.  And Verizon wireless has free spam controls now that will block texting and calls for free.  ?  It is a deeper commitment of NC when you do that--- and I imagine it could push another stage of grieving.