BPD vs Sociopath

[BillP]

After speaking at great length with my T, the belief is my ex does not have BPD. Instead, the belief is she suffers from being clinically depressed with BPD tendencies, and is also a sociopath. This became apparent to the T after several conversations we had, what she had done, and other things as well. Also after a lengthy q&a session with me having to answer extremely personal questions. I believe that if I am to get better, I had to be completely honest with myself, and then with the T.

The good thing is that, my T believes that I will never have to worry about the Monster ever appearing in my life again. Because, with sociopaths, and their narcissistic personality, she does not want to know me anymore. It was put to me this way. She's a tick & I'm a dead dog. She can't get anymore life out of me, so there's no reason for her to come back. However, if she were to have a complete disconnect form reality, a psychotic episode, then she might came after me, and may try to hurt my physically.

The other things was, with the email I sent her, the T believes, she's at a point where she doesn't care if I know her life story. She will just simply go on with her life of lies & deceipt. But, I went ot another T, and went through almost the exact same process, and the conclusions were the same.

The question I have is, has anyone else gone through this same thing? Thinking their ex is BPD, when in fact, they are actually something else altogether. Granted, without examining the actual individual, it's hard to make an exact diagnosis.

For the record, I have been n/c since I sent her the email, and will never break n/c.

[liveandlearn]

I guess I'm at the point where it doesn't really matter what the diagnosis is, although I was really worried my ex was a sociopath before finding out about BPD.  He seems to meet the classic definition for BPD, and it helps to have this framework to put his actions in context.  I know that he is not well, and that when he acts out and rages, it's b/c he can't handle his emotions.  Knowing that makes me empathize, but I'm also at the point where it doesn't matter why he does what he does.  I either tolerate it or don't.  I was also warned by my therapist that my pwBPD might come back to hurt me physically, but he hasn't.  I worried I'd be stalked, etc. but I haven't been.  Thank goodness for both of these!  I also know a great deal about this man that no one else knows.  I have protected this information b/c I respect his right to privacy.  This doesn't mean he respects me in the same way.  When he rages, he acts and speaks irrationally, and unless he would go through significant counselling, I can't be involved with him. 

[Valentine09]

Based on what my exgf told me about her inner thoughts and coupled with my witnessing of her actions, she fits BPD in an almost textbook sense.  I even had her see my T and after giving him my personal accounts of her actions he agreed with what I had concluded.  

However, when I got fed up with her behavior I told her I believed she had BPD and deflected that notion by going to her own T and getting a second opinion.  According to my exgf, she asked her T and her psychiatrist if she had BPD and they said she didn't and that people often get misclassified when it is something else.  So she said her T thought she had PTSD (from sexual abuse), OCD, anxiety and depression.  But NONE of this explained why she continually lied to me about everything or why she NEEDED the attention of other men and was cheating on me.  When she told me this I asked to be able to speak with her T because I wanted to know if this is what was actually said or not and I wanted an explanation from a professional on why BPD was ruled out.  At this point I needed proof that I wasn't being lied to yet again.  If someone gives permission to be let in on their counseling session, there's no reason the T woudn't allow it because the more information they know can only help.  But my exgf claimed that she asked her T if I could come talk with the two of them and that her T said no.  I asked my T about this and he said my exgf was lying.  My exgf isn't giving her T all the facts and I believe she's being misdiagnosed as a result.  But the bottom line is it doesn't matter.  She's not going to admit having BPD and as long as that's the case and the real problem is going unsolved, she'll never change.

[JoannaK]

Many, perhaps most, with BPD have other comorbid disorders... or they have many traits, several of BPD, several of other related disorders. 

I guess, Bill P, I wonder how it will impact you going forward; in other words, will your thought processes and healing processes be different if you thought she was "pure" BPD vs. something else?

[kj1234]

I discussed this subject with a T I went to, whom I thought was very good.  I told her what I thought were the differences between someone I dealt with in business, whom I suspect to be a sociopath, and stbxw, whom I said I thought was a pwBPD.  The T said, "maybe she's just better at hiding [the same stuff the other guy does so proudly and blatantly with joy]."

The T said either way you are talking about very serious stuff that is who the person is and not likely to change.

As my r/s with stbxw goes further into the past, and the divorce continues to be combative, the other side reaches new extents of wildly destructive behavior, I still don't know, but I am more concerned about the destructive portions of stbxw and the people she surrounds herself with, some of whom are violent and conscienceless.

Either way, stbxw is dangerous.  The other guy I referred to would, and has, perpertrated violence on people himself and talks freely about people who "should be dead."  Stbxw does not speak freely about any of the destructive things she does, but hides them instead.  I don't know the limits of what she and her clan are capable of.

One likely possibility:  Stbxw is a pwBPD, comorbid with some consciencelessness of sociopathy.  She desperately and compulsively must cover up her bad deeds and thoughts with cognitive distortion, secrecy and demonizing of others.  She is so damn good at playing the helpless victim that people around her come to her aid aggressively to destroy her alleged abusers.  With a bunch of violent sociopaths in that mix of people, it is a dangerous situation.  I came to her aid many times, but tried to treat the so-called abusers respectfully, get to the truth and defuse situations.  Stbxw never liked that.  She would turn against me with silent anger and shut me out.  I think she considered it disloyalty, though I never meant it that way.  I can only hope some of the people supporting her now are able and willing to reason.  There's a substantial amount of money on the table in the divorce and I don't know the limits of what they will do when stbxw finally has to pay up.  Yet she and her L keep acting and omitting to increase the damages, even when it is easy to limit or reduce them.  Sick, sick, sick.

[OverBoard]

I don't know. All I KNOW is something was not right. Not at all. Mine said she was diagnosed 2 yrs. prior to me as Bi-polar; therefore meds to sleep 6oo mg Serquel. She would not take them as instructed during the day, then she would mix booze with them (3-4 bottles of wine) to gain even more of a euphoric effect.

Spoke to her 5 yr ex before me. He said she use to find anything to take over the counter or go to Dr. to get something, anything and mix with booze. He said she was a sociopath due to other extenuating circumstances with them.

With me? I don't know. Like I said, something was not right. I'm level headed, calm, personable, intelligent, had my hard times (like now~~) but, something just was not right with her.

I first noticed it when she began to hit the bottle hard (found out mine was an alcoholic since 16. Now 49. She hid it very, very well)... came from alcoholic parents, verbally abusive father, nutty mother, two brothers successful, still married to same women and with kids all grown. Mine? Several relationships, two children removed from her via court for neglect, self medicating, pathological liar (confirmed by her family and close friend, and two ex's before me), no remorse, no guilt, never apologized, never felt she did anything wrong... I don't know.

All I know is that this relationship was suppose to be it. I believed her as well. She was diagnosed when with me as bi-polar as well, and BPD... her T gave her tons of books on BPD to read, and self proclaimed NPD. The massive entitlement and will not stop at anyone or anything to get it; her fabricated glamorous past; her proclamation she is more "worldly and intelligent than 99.9% of the population; her neglect and drinking in front of her children (before me) to the point the courts removed them; her disregard for doing anything wrong ever... I don't know.

What baffled me is that IF IF any of these signs were there in dating, I would have walked away. They did not come to surface until about 6 months into the relationship when she moved in with me of her chosing. She was wonderful. She talked about her depression, her past, her anger issues, her failed relationships, her sabotaging them all, etc. She spoke of her BPD and NPD... and yet, she spoke of her love for me.

The ex said no doubt about her being a sociopath.

Her best friend said life long anger issues.

Her parents (?)... when sober, told me she was hard to handle growing up and always disappearing without a word to show up and demand their financial backing. Said she ruined every relationship she was in.

I don't know.

I just know, I surely don't like what all this has done to me. Not one damn bit of it.

[2010]

A sociopath uses pity to get their way with people.

A psychopath enjoys hurting people.

A narcissist wants attention.

A borderline wants to be carried.

All of the above are personality disorders.

Being clinically depressed is not.  A sociopath uses pity to get their way with people. A narcissist wants attention. Good or bad, it doesn't matter. Failing adoration, they will take your fear.

The good thing is that, my T believes that I will never have to worry about the Monster ever appearing in my life again. Because, with sociopaths, and their narcissistic personality, she does not want to know me anymore.

The therapist is going on what you are telling them. When you use descriptions like "monster" you are telling the therapist that you are in fear. The therapists job is to uncover what exactly you are afraid of. In the meantime, acknowledging that your tendency to split good from evil will only last until you begin to jostle with the good again.  The bad can stay bad in your mind- it's when the good comes back that you have to worry.

It was put to me this way. She's a tick & I'm a dead dog. She can't get anymore life out of me, so there's no reason for her to come back. However, if she were to have a complete disconnect form reality, a psychotic episode, then she might came after me, and may try to hurt my physically.

Borderline personality is a hidden disorder- it's not as apparent as Narcissism and the end of the spectrum, psychopathic behavior. It is, however very similar to sociopathy in that a target's altruism is activated and then manipulated.

If this person was a psychopathic monster- once would have been enough to walk away. If you didn't, then you need to address the reasons why you kept coming back for more. If they are a Narcissist, then you need to decipher the reasons why you felt valued and then devastated when you were devalued and discarded. Chances are they weren't obvious about it- and that's where the fear arises.

Knowing about personality disorders doesn't protect us from harm, but it's a realization that some people are repetitive in their actions and this should cause us to get a boundary up and guard us against repeat offenses. The differences in all the disorders dont matter unless they all lead back to the one weakness in your boundary against them. Find out what that is. Find your Achilles heel. That's what you need to discuss with your therapist next. 

[PhoenixBorn]

I have wasted 9 years of my life trying to work out why my x behaves the way she does and just as much time trying to help her.  She was eventually diagnosed as BPD, females usually are.  Having spent months on this board I still cant work out the fundamental difference...   Sociopaths have no conscience and borderlines dont show one, so do they have one at all and is there a difference?  Having said that does it matter what they are labelled?  All you need to know is they are mentally sick and if you stay you will be mentally sick in your own right.  There are no real answers to insanity.

Phoenix

[restoredsight]

Well, it doesn't seem like a sociopath would worry too much about abandonment, unless acting like it would offer some sort of tangible award. Sympathy is a goal of a borderline, while for a sociopath it's a tool. A sociopath fakes most emotions because they feel very little, while a borderline has extremely powerful emotions.

The anger and violence that a borderline may display is usually aimed at a loved one, while a sociopath (especially one with low intelligence and reasoning skills) will feel inclined to violence towards a wider array of people. While a higher functioning sociopath will avoid illegal activity out of self-interest, they don't think that laws apply to them really.

It seems from what I've read, the sociopath has a need to control sexual partners and like to feel powerful, while a borderline will seek masochistic encounters and control their partners through frequency and intensity.

Just some thoughts.

[restoredsight]

Jesus. Reading about this... .my brother shows just about every freakin sign of being sociopathic. My self assessment is going to be novel-length.  

[2010]

while a borderline will seek masochistic encounters

... .in order to be controlled- which validates the thoughts that they are not in control. They then turn rescuers into persecutors as that is what they suffered in childhood. The disorder is a repeating theme. Borderline is a persecution complex. If they did not have a conscience- they would not care. They do- but you are not you- you are a facsimile of their parent, notably their first objectified savior, their Mother.

The Borderline does have a conscience- but they do not have free will. Sociopathy is without conscience- but has free will.

Borderline is an attachment disorder, sociopathy is not an attachment disorder. Attachment is the goal for the Borderline while fear of annihilation is the inevitable result from the fusion. The disorder lingers between the two states of fear and causes anxiety to the sufferer.  It is a disorder of emotions and feelings as the result. This requires a conscience. The Borderline really, hasn't got a clue on how to be self sufficient. The sociopath does- and it involves using people- but it doesn't cause anxiety to their thought process.

[restoredsight]

The Borderline does have a conscience- but they do not have free will. Sociopathy is without conscience- but has free will.

That is such a succinct and resonating statement.

My brother, from the time he was little  was inclined to violence towards anyone really. At age 7 or so (when I was 8) he stabbed me with a pair of scissors, but wasn't strong enough to break the skin. He's had violent episodes towards just about anyone that he felt got in his way ever since, family members, friends, and strangers.

He's a thief. He started with things that meant anything to me when i was little. He went out of his way to "frame" me for things in order to have me punished. He's continued this sort of behavior and will take anything that appeals to him. He's extremely charming and uses it frequently to get what he wants. He once used his charm to bed a girl he knew I was interested in and afterwards he told me it was my fault for not "working fast enough".

By comparison, my exBPD would have a sense of entitlement that was double edged. She would sometimes get gifts and if she had some reason to feel bad for the gift she would say something like, "He made me feel bad about buying it for me." As much as she wanted some things, she was on the lookout for how it was presented. She was always hyper vigilant for my reaction towards most things unless it was something she "needed", or unless there was a family member present, then my interests and feelings sometimes got steam-rolled.

My brother would simply not care at all unless there was some sort of direct reward.

[Manon46]

In my experience with ex, I was never capable of exactly pointing out one disorder.

He reached the 8 out of 10 on the psychopath list of Hare, but was diagnosed as a pw OCPD ( that was his version) the psychiatrists over here don't tell anything without permission of the patient, which obviously he didn't give.

So I kept swimming in dark waters, but according to my own T, he suffered from ASPD balancing towards psychopath.

Reading here for years, he had a lot of BPD traits but not a fullblown BPD, he had a lot of Psychopathic traits but not all, he had a lot of ASPD traits but not all, and a lot of OCPD but certainly not all, I think he had the least of the traits of OCPD, his diagnose.

Whether it was fear, lack of consiousness what drove him I can't tell with 100 % certainty.

He never killed me, but often threats me to do, he was violent, cruel, sadistic, charming , caring,involved. But unpredictable and instable as a BPD, clinging, claiming, low or no selfesteem at all, extremely jaleous,possesive,paranoia, unable to keep a job, blames the world for everything, and hates all even his own children and certainly mine.

Although I never saw him as a monster, I was scared to death for him, for his wrath, his coldness, his sadism,and yet, the kind side of him seemed very real too.

I think it is a fine line to label someone with one PD. WHat I've learned is the difference between socio and psychopaths, it's only a different opinion between psychiatrists regarding the cause of it.

Namely pathalogic or enviromental, the outcome is the same.

The most important thing is indeed to find your Achillesheel, for there are a lot of disordered people around and you will surely meet another... do you run, or do you fall again for it.

When you are able to set for yourself the major bounderies, even with your ex, they will not stand a chance.

Even your T can't predict if she ever comes back, nobody knows, thing is... can you cope if she does ?...  

[BillP]

Great responses folks. I appreciate them. As to how this will affect my recovery and the process itself, it won't. For me the bottom line, the Monster is very ill mentally, and I don't have the desire to have her in my life as I move forward. But, I do want to find a vehicle and an avenue in which to get my story out to the community. The reason has been, I have read several stories & watched a few shows on women who have been abused in a similar fashion as the ex, and 2 women stuck out to me.

They talked about getting their story out, to help someone else out who either may be experiencing what they have gone through, or prevent someone from this happening to. Very powerful stories. Very emotional. I just remeber watching these young ladies, and seeing how they found the inner strength to say to themselves, and to their predators: "NO MORE"! One of them mentioned that, they may not be able to stop the person who did this to them, but if they could make the community aware that this Monster lived amongst them, it was worth it

They both referenced that, this was their "revenge". They knew they would never be able to seek revenge against that particular person, but they could get revenge on another predator who was out there and continuing this type of behavour. I will now seek to find the vehicle & venue to do the same. It is not to seek revenge against the Monster herself, but if I can aid one person in either stop living/dealing with a person with this illness/disorder, then I feel, I've got my revenge. But most importantly, I was able to assist someone in separating themself from a person that will only cause an extreme amount of unnecassary pain.

Lastly, as to why I keep referring to the ex as a Monster. It's simple, and I've said this to the T, as well as here on these forums. The ex has referred to herself several times during the r/s as a Monster, so, I never use her name, and I ask those closest to me to not use her name. We now refer to her as the Monster, and that's all it is. Whether she's a sociopath with BPD tendencies, or a BPD with sociopath tendencies, compunded with PTSD or anything else, the bottom line here is, my life, my reules, my decisions. No Monster allowed!

[kj1234]

I think this is the best collection of responses on this question I have read so far.

It seems the differences in the two disorders are in the intentions and motivations of the actions, but the actions are not much different between some sociopaths and some pwBPD.  I say "some" because as we know not all are the same.

In the times the pwBPD perceives threats and dangers, even if they aren't really there, and expands those threats with cognitive distortions, erroneous accounting of "facts", and false accusations, you could say the pwBPD has a conscience, but is acting as any "normal" person would if actually confronted with a situation that exists only in the pwBPD's mind.  So, if the pwBPD acts extremely destructively for this reason, compared to the sociopath who may willfully calculate the same destruction just because he/she is skilled and can thinks he/she can get away with it, is the result any different for the victim?  Maybe not, but the response to combat the attack may be.

And, if the person is a sociopath, but has learned that he/she can achieve that ever-present goal of getting sympathy from others by faking the emotions more characteristic of a pwBPD, wouldn't it be very, very difficult to tell the difference between the two?  There may also be a gender factor.  Of the two people I dealt with, whom I have concluded are most likely sociopath and BPD/sociopath, the first is a man and the second a woman.  If the man were to act like the woman did, he would not be as effective in the show of power and strength expected of him and his game would be reduced in effectiveness.  If the woman were to act like the man did, she would not be able to play on the natural sympathies of human beings toward a poor, helpless little mother not asking, but successfully drawing, the aggressive support of outsiders.

Maybe it is not just coincidence that statistics say more males will become sociopaths and more females will become pwBPD.  Perhaps the statistics only, or at least to some extent, differ because of our inability to effectively diagnose these manipulative, destructive people.

As others have said, the important thing is to protect ourselves from both.  I suggest reading the book The Sociopath Next Door, by Martha Stout, Ph.D.  She gives some practical guidelines to follow for self-protection that I think would be helpful in either case.

Another good one is Wolves in Sheeps' Clothing.  I don't recall the author's name.  I found it odd when reading those books and dealing with the guy I mentioned, stbxw and I engaged in prolonged conversations about all aspects of the practical and tactical situations, but when I tried to engage her in discussions about the sociopathy, the lying, etc., she would go silent and not engage.  That was before I had any suspicion at all about her true nature and activities.

[Manon46]

Another good book to read is Without Conscience. The disturbing world of Psychopaths among us.

People of the Lie, Scott Peck.

I also believe in difference between gender, although there are female psychopaths ofcourse as there are male pwBPD, and males have often more strength and are physical violent.

The main goal I think of all disorders is to satisfy their own needs at all cause, and others are just collateral damage.

Mostly what seems a misunderstanding is that a psychopath is a killer, which is only in a few cases true.

The "wolf in sheepclothes" is also used for malignent Narcissism which is also a form of psychopathy, just as "Snakes in Suits", cold and counscienceless business man.

Monsters are imo those who kill,for the joy of it, abuse and molest children for their own satisfaction.

Yes, the people we encountered are definately, cruel sadistic, liars, cheaters,abusers,violent people but more important is how to protect ourselves against those people and especially find out why we did fall for it.

Only than , you can recognize one and stay away from them.

It is a noble thought to educate people that persons like them exist, but no one will listen, untill they encountered one and experience it.

Everybody warned me, but something inside ME, gave him a free ticket for abuse.

To think that there are no evil people, is a very naive, but to know how it feels, you have to encounter one...  

[2010]

But, I do want to find a vehicle and an avenue in which to get my story out to the community. The reason has been, I have read several stories & watched a few shows on women who have been abused in a similar fashion as the ex, and 2 women stuck out to me.

They talked about getting their story out, to help someone else out who either may be experiencing what they have gone through, or prevent someone from this happening to. Very powerful stories. Very emotional. I just remeber watching these young ladies, and seeing how they found the inner strength to say to themselves, and to their predators: "NO MORE"! One of them mentioned that, they may not be able to stop the person who did this to them, but if they could make the community aware that this Monster lived amongst them, it was worth it

They both referenced that, this was their "revenge". They knew they would never be able to seek revenge against that particular person, but they could get revenge on another predator who was out there and continuing this type of behavour. I will now seek to find the vehicle & venue to do the same. It is not to seek revenge against the Monster herself, but if I can aid one person in either stop living/dealing with a person with this illness/disorder, then I feel, I've got my revenge. But most importantly, I was able to assist someone in separating themself from a person that will only cause an extreme amount of unnecassary pain.

Um, NO. Victimology is a culture where you dont want to live for the rest of your life.

Victimology is certainly fodder for talk shows and radio shows and the personal blogs of the World.  Talk shows and radio shows and blogs NEED victims to fill the airwaves. That way the audience can feel better about themselves. But these victims don't realize that wearing the cloak of victim just makes them victimized further. This is where the "us vs. them" splitting resembles Borderline thinking -but in order to understand splitting you must look at the desire to tell others about evil.  Being a victim of evil happens. But being a victim of your own hand can become a self fulfilling prospective of casting twin nets of shame and blame. Perspective isn't the issue- it's prospective. If the prospective is that the World is a scary place and evil exists and you were a one time victim of evil- then yes, tell your story about how you overcame it- Help others with your triumph.

But if your prospective is about being a victim that kept going back for more- then you need to address why you kept coming back for more-you need to acknowledge the shame- not finger pointing blame at the scary people because it was all their fault. Victims turn into martyrs in victimology because they have personalized their journey in life as undeserving black and white, good vs. evil.  There is no self responsibility in this prospective statement of repeat offenses.

Victimology is rife for splitting and very much like Borderline thinking.  You, however, are not Borderline. You do not have a persecution complex. You've made some decisions in the past that did not go well. This was a learning experience- much like the next person will have who will meet your ex. There is absolutely nothing that you can do to prevent what happened to you to what happens to them. They will have to prevent that from happening- not you. That is not your responsibility to protect them. Your job is to protect yourself. To walk away.

You could have a second career warning new targets- going on talk shows- giving radio performances- but you have better things to do- notably getting your life back in shape and living free and clear from this mess. Let go of the outcome of this person's personal life and move on.  That is the best revenge.

[Valentine09]

Don't become a professional victim unless someone's paying you some big bucks to do so 

[deb4321]

hey everyone- for those of you who are curious and would like to read more about sociopaths, i just got done reading an awesome book on the subject... It's called "The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout PhD. Really interesting stuff and I had no idea that one in 25 people is a sociopath. Personally, my ex definitely was way too emotional to be considered sociopathic, but he was definitely BPD and most likely NPD. Still, the book is great! Just don't read it before you go to bed if you can help it (unless you are really resiliant to those types of things but personally I found it a little too creepy to be my bedtime story)

[BillP]

I want to make clear, my thought about telling my story is to merely get information out there so that those, who may be in a r/s like the ones we have all been can learn from our/my story. I would never be here if it weren't for what I went through. But I sure as hell don't want to know another living soul, in my area, who I could have helped, go through this incredible ordeal.

I have no desire to walk around with a billboard on my back, or shouting from the rooftops. And forget the tv shows, and stuf like that. Yeah, that's "Jerry Spreinger-ish" to me. But there has to be a forum to get the message out that there are ppl like the ones in our past, who will prey on ppl for no other reason then their own selfish needs.

What? Am I supposed to lick my wounds, suck it up, and just, get along little doggy kinda thing? No, not me! I'll be damned if I let this Monster do what she did, and think, it's okay, he'll just go away. Someone needs to step to these ppl and say: ENOUGH!.

As far as going back. Going back to what? I can guarantee all of you, 100%, I will never see or speak to this Monster again. I know it! To me, she's not a person, but an entity. I don't fear entities. Socipaths don't go back to their victims, when they're done with them. Good!

[David Dare]

The question I have is, has anyone else gone through this same thing? Thinking their ex is BPD, when in fact, they are actually something else altogether. Granted, without examining the actual individual, it's hard to make an exact diagnosis.

This thought has popped into my mind lately, and my response is similar to what others have said.  If it wasn't for some completely off the wall experiences I had with her, I would say she wasn't BPD, but man, I saw some strange stuff.

[RealEyes]

The Sociopath Next Door

Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us

Maybe check out these 2 books from your local Library about such PD?

[Evan]

Many, perhaps most, with BPD have other comorbid disorders... or they have many traits, several of BPD, several of other related disorders. 

I guess, Bill P, I wonder how it will impact you going forward; in other words, will your thought processes and healing processes be different if you thought she was "pure" BPD vs. something else?

Yes. There's a good reason why they put the various personality disorders into clusters in the DSM. My ex has traits of all the PDs in Cluster B. Where that leaves her I don't know. Out of my hands now, just hope the next unsuspecting person doesn't get hurt.

[livejim56]

I agree with you Bill,  I think that awareness of females that Lie cheat and just break are hearts needs to be addressed. hell I am 54 yrs old and fell fopr all her stuff.  I have no idea how sshe lives with herself. Nothing is real and nothing she says can be trusted, it is just plain old rude- when I was brought up these where the people that yopu wanted to beat up or were told to stay away from.

It would be nice if we could make BPD and Offfense of crule and unusal treatment towards another person.

I agree, it angers me and I will never go back, and beat you ass if I go back it will be to settle a score. Man oh man- I can say this- he ability to walk or function will be impaired.

So if you are a BPD woman is Sc- don;t mess with me !

[Marcie]

My uxBPDbf used pitty a lot. The day I kicked him out he showed up to his best friend and girlfriends house with a box of things, for pity because he didn't move any of his stuff that night. (his friend knew I was kicking him out and they laughed at his cry for pity behind his back) I was out of town and they called and told me.

He also molested his little brother. He said only once but is typical for someone to molest someone only once? Can someone be a sociopath and BPD?