Am I BPD?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I went to my therapist today who has been helping me thru my recent (10 day old) break-up from a clearly bp disordered individual. He told me that if I got back together with him that he would go back to the idealizing stage and then within 2 weeks go back to his fear of abandonment stage and ignore me again. I asked him how this guy was in a 10 year marriage and he said that whomever he was married to had to have a serious disorder as well. I asked him why I missed him if he treated me so badly and he said that I felt comfortable in the relationship because the way I was raised (my mother is clearly BPD) I never new what real love should feel like. I am separated for a year and I have a recurring pattern that everytime a man gets too close I start to pull away and see things about him I don't like. I like the part in which I am being chased, but once they get serious with me, I get very uncomfortable and start to want to avoid them. This even happened with my xbfwBPD, but somehow when he pulled away, I wanted him back. It was this push/pull dynamic that also was part of my 25 year marriage. So do I have BPD?

[Myheadisspinning]

I went to my therapist today who has been helping me thru my recent (10 day old) break-up from a clearly bp disordered individual. He told me that if I got back together with him that he would go back to the idealizing stage and then within 2 weeks go back to his fear of abandonment stage and ignore me again. I asked him how this guy was in a 10 year marriage and he said that whomever he was married to had to have a serious disorder as well. I asked him why I missed him if he treated me so badly and he said that I felt comfortable in the relationship because the way I was raised (my mother is clearly BPD) I never new what real love should feel like. I am separated for a year and I have a recurring pattern that everytime a man gets too close I start to pull away and see things about him I don't like. I like the part in which I am being chased, but once they get serious with me, I get very uncomfortable and start to want to avoid them. This even happened with my xbfwBPD, but somehow when he pulled away, I wanted him back. It was this push/pull dynamic that also was part of my 25 year marriage. So do I have BPD?

[joop]

What does your T say ?

[Myheadisspinning]

What does your T say ?

He never answers me and says that I had a difficult childhood and that my childhood experience has shaped my concept of what love should feel like. He said that the men I choose, including my ex husband, are not emotionally available, engage in push/pull and so forth. He even told me that if I feel deeply attracted to a man, I should think twice and choose someone else because chances are that man is a bad choice. This of course sounds counter-intuitive to me. How can i help who I am attracted to. He also told me that my ex-bf who has BPD is extremely disordered and it is unlikely I will run into "another one of him". I have no addictions, but I have some eating disorder, I have friendships that I have maintained over many years, I am somewhat narcissistic, I take great pride in my appearance, I always feel the need to be partnered, I have dated over 60 men in 14 months. I overreact to what I perceive as abandonment (for example if I send a text to a guy I am dating and he doesn't respond with in minutes I freak out).

[joop]

What does your T say ?

He never answers me and says that I had a difficult childhood and that my childhood experience has shaped my concept of what love should feel like. He said that the men I choose, including my ex husband, are not emotionally available, engage in push/pull and so forth. He even told me that if I feel deeply attracted to a man, I should think twice and choose someone else because chances are that man is a bad choice. This of course sounds counter-intuitive to me. How can i help who I am attracted to. He also told me that my ex-bf who has BPD is extremely disordered and it is unlikely I will run into "another one of him". I have no addictions, but I have some eating disorder, I have friendships that I have maintained over many years, I am somewhat narcissistic, I take great pride in my appearance, I always feel the need to be partnered, I have dated over 60 men in 14 months. I overreact to what I perceive as abandonment (for example if I send a text to a guy I am dating and he doesn't respond with in minutes I freak out).

What are your thoughts on co-dependency?

[Myheadisspinning]

What does your T say ?

He never answers me and says that I had a difficult childhood and that my childhood experience has shaped my concept of what love should feel like. He said that the men I choose, including my ex husband, are not emotionally available, engage in push/pull and so forth. He even told me that if I feel deeply attracted to a man, I should think twice and choose someone else because chances are that man is a bad choice. This of course sounds counter-intuitive to me. How can i help who I am attracted to. He also told me that my ex-bf who has BPD is extremely disordered and it is unlikely I will run into "another one of him". I have no addictions, but I have some eating disorder, I have friendships that I have maintained over many years, I am somewhat narcissistic, I take great pride in my appearance, I always feel the need to be partnered, I have dated over 60 men in 14 months. I overreact to what I perceive as abandonment (for example if I send a text to a guy I am dating and he doesn't respond with in minutes I freak out).

What are your thoughts on co-dependency?

How do you know the difference?

[Strong Again]

Criteria for Borderline Personality Disorder

A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and

marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated

by five (or more) of the following:

1. frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or

self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

2. a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating

between extremes of idealization and devaluation

3. identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self

4. impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex,

substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating

behavior covered in Criterion 5.

5. recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior

6. affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria,

irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)

7. chronic feelings of emptiness

8. inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper,

constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

9. transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms


Diagnostic Features

The essential feature of Borderline Personality Disorder is a pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity that begins by early adulthood and is present in a variety of contexts.

Individuals with Borderline Personality Disorder make frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment (Criterion 1). The perception of impending separation or rejection, or the loss of external structure, can lead to profound changes in self-image, affect, cognition, and behavior. These individuals are very sensitive to environmental circumstances. They experience intense abandonment fears and inappropriate anger even when faced with a realistic time-limited separation or when there are unavoidable changes in plans (e.g. sudden despair in reaction to a clinician’s announcing the end of the hour; panic of fury when someone important to them is just a few minutes late or must cancel an appointment). They may believe that this "abandonment" implies they are "bad." These abandonment fears are related to an intolerance of being alone and a need to have other people with them. Their frantic efforts to avoid abandonment may include impulsive actions such as self-mutilating or suicidal behaviors, which are described separately in Criterion 5.

Individuals with Borderline Personality Disorder have a pattern of unstable and intense relationships (Criterion 2). They may idealize potential caregivers or lovers at the first or second meeting, demand to spend a lot of time together, and share the most intimate details early in a relationship. However, they may switch quickly from idealizing other people to devaluing them, feeling that the other person does not care enough, does not give enough, is not "there" enough. These individuals can empathize with and nurture other people, but only with the expectation that the other person will "be there" in return to meet their own needs on demand. These individuals are prone to sudden and dramatic shifts in their view of others, who may alternately be seen as beneficent supports

or as cruelly punitive. Suck shifts often reflect disillusionment with a caregiver who nurturing qualities had been idealized or whose rejection or abandonment is expected.

There may be an identity disturbance characterized by markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self (Criterion 3). There are sudden and dramatic shifts in self-image, characterized by shifting goals, values, and vocational aspirations. There may be sudden changes in opinions and plans about career, sexual identity, values, and types of friends. These individuals may suddenly change from the role of a needy supplicant for help to a righteous avenger of past mistreatment. Although they usually have a self-image that is based on being bad or evil, individuals with this disorder may at times have feelings that they do not exist at all. Such experiences usually occur in situations in which the individual feels a lack of meaningful relationship, nurturing and support. These individuals may show worse performance in unstructured work or school situations.

Individuals with this disorder display impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (Criterion 4). They may gamble, spend money irresponsibly, binge eat, abuse substances, engage in unsafe sex, or drive recklessly. Individuals with Borderline Personality Disorder display recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior (Criterion 5). Completed suicide occurs in 8%-10% of such individuals, and self-mutilative acts (e.g., cutting or burning) and suicide threats and attempts are very common. Recurrent suicidality is often the reason that these individuals present for help. These self-destructive acts are usually precipitated by threats of separation or rejection or by expectations that they assume increased responsibility.

Self-mutilation may occur during dissociative experiences and often brings relief by reaffirming the ability to feel or expiating the individual’s sense of being evil.

Individuals with Borderline Personality Disorder may display affective instability that is due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days) (Criterion 6). The basic dysphoric mood of those with Borderline Personality Disorder is often disrupted by periods of anger, panic, or despair and is rarely relieved by periods of well-being or satisfaction.

These episodes may reflect the individual’s extreme reactivity troubled by chronic feelings of emptiness (Criterion 7). Easily bored, they may constantly seek something to do. Individuals with Borderline Personality Disorder frequently express inappropriate, intense anger or have difficulty controlling their anger (Criterion 8). They may display extreme sarcasm, enduring bitterness, or verbal outbursts. The anger is often elicited when a caregiver or lover is seen as neglectful, withholding, uncaring, or abandoning. Such expressions of anger are often followed by shame and guilt and contribute to the feeling they have of being evil. During periods of extreme stress, transient paranoid ideation or dissociative symptoms (e.g., depersonalization) may occur (Criterion 9), but these are generally of insufficient severity or duration to warrant an additional diagnosis. These episodes occur most frequently in response to a real or imagined abandonment. Symptoms tend to be transient, lasting minutes or hours.

The real or perceived return of the caregiver’s nurturance may result in a remission of symptoms.


Associated Features and Disorders

Individuals with Borderline Personality Disorder may have a pattern of undermining themselves at the moment a goal is about to be realized (e.g., dropping out of school just before graduation; regressing severely after a discussion of how well therapy is going; destroying a good relationship just when it is clear that the relationship could last). Some individuals develop psychotic-like symptoms (e.g., hallucinations, body-image distortions, ideas of reference, and hypnagogic phenomena) during times of stress. Individuals with this disorder may feel more secure

with transitional objects (i.e., a pet or inanimate possession) than in interpersonal relationships. Premature death from suicide may occur in individuals with this disorder, especially in those with co-occurring Mood Disorders or Substance-Related Disorders. Physical handicaps may result from self-inflicted abuse behaviors or failed suicide attempts. Recurrent job losses, interrupted education, and broken marriages are common. Physical and sexual abuse, neglect, hostile conflict, and early parental loss or separation are more common in the childhood histories of those with Borderline Personality Disorder. Common co-occurring Axis I disorders include Mood Disorders, Substance-Related Disorders, Eating Disorders (notably Bulimia), Posttramatic Stress Disorder, and Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder. Borderline Personality Disorder also frequently co-occurs with the other Personality Disorders.

Specific Culture, Age, and Gender Features

The pattern of behavior seen in Borderline Personality Disorder has been identified in many settings around the world. Adolescents and young adults with identity problems (especially when accompanied by substance abuse) may transiently display behaviors that misleadingly give the impression of Borderline Personality Disorder. Such situations are characterized by emotional instability, "existential" dilemmas, uncertainty, anxiety-provoking choices, conflicts about sexual orientation, and competing social pressures to decide on careers. Borderline Personality Disorder is diagnosed predominantly (about 75%) in females.

Prevalence

The prevalence of Borderline Personality Disorder is estimated to be about 2% of the general population, about 10% among individuals seen in outpatient mental health clinics, and about 20% among psychiatric inpatients. In ranges from 30% to 60% among clinical populations with Personality Disorders.

Course

There is considerable variability in the course of Borderline Personality Disorder. The most common pattern is one of chronic instability in early adulthood, with episodes of serious affective and impulsive dyscontrol and high levels of use of health and mental health resources. The impairment from the disorder and the risk of suicide are greatest in the young-adult years and gradually wane with advancing age. During their 30s and 40s, the majority of individuals with this disorder attain greater stability in their relationships and vocational functioning.

Familial Pattern

Borderline Personality Disorder is about five times more common among first-degree biological relatives of those with the disorder than in the general population. There is also an increased familial risk for Substance-Related Disorders, Antisocial Personality Disorder, and Mood Disorders.

Differential Diagnosis

Borderline Personality Disorder often co-occurs with Mood Disorders, and when criteria for both are met, both may be diagnosed. Because the cross-sectional presentation of Borderline Personality Disorder can be mimicked by an episode of Mood Disorder, the clinician should avoid giving an additional diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder based only on cross-sectional presentation without having documented that the pattern of behavior has an early onset and a long-standing course.

Other Personality Disorders may be confused with Borderline Personality Disorder because they have certain features in common. It is, therefore, important to distinguish among these disorders based on differences in their characteristic features. However, if an individual has personality features that meet criteria for one or more Personality Disorders in addition to Borderline Personality Disorder, all can be diagnosed. Although Histrionic Personality Disorder can also be characterized by attention seeking, manipulative behavior, and rapidly shifting emotions, Borderline Personality Disorder is distinguished by self-destructiveness, angry disruptions in close

relationships, and chronic feelings of deep emptiness and loneliness. Paranoid ideas or illusions may be present in both Borderline Personality Disorder and Schizotypal Personality Disorder, but these symptoms are more transient, interpersonally reactive, and responsive to external structuring in Borderline Personality Disorder.

Although Paranoid Personality Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder may also be characterized by an angry reaction to minor stimuli, the relative stability of self-image as well as the relative lack of self-destructiveness, impulsivity, and abandonment concerns distinguish these disorders from Borderline Personality Disorder. Although Antisocial Personality Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder are both characterized by manipulative behavior, individuals with Antisocial Personality Disorder are manipulative to gain profit, power, or some other material gratification, whereas the goal in Borderline Personality Disorder is directed more toward gaining the concern of caretakers. Both Dependent Personality Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder are characterized by fear of abandonment, however, the individual with Borderline Personality Disorder reacts to abandonment with feelings of emotional emptiness, rage, and demands, whereas the individual with Dependent Personality Disorder reacts with increasing appeasement and submissiveness and urgently seeks a replacement relationship to provide caregiving and support. Borderline Personality Disorder can further be distinguished from Dependent Personality Disorder by the typical pattern of unstable and intense relationships.

Borderline Personality Disorder must be distinguished from Personality Change Due to a General Medical Condition, in which the traits emerge due to the direct effects of a general medical condition on the central nervous system. It must also be distinguished from symptoms that may develop in association with chronic substance use (e.g., Cocaine-Related Disorder Not Otherwise Specified).

Borderline Personality Disorder should be distinguished from Identity Problem... .which is reserved for identity concerns related to a developmental phase (e.g., adolescence) and does not qualify as a mental disorder."

www.fortunecity.com/campus/psychology/781/BPD-dsm.htm

[balancing act]

I asked him how this guy was in a 10 year marriage and he said that whomever he was married to had to have a serious disorder as well.

This comment makes me SICK! I stayed 20 years with my BPD xh.  Last week I was doing the column at the right on survivor's guide of abuse.  Realized I had stockholm syndrome characteristics.

Maybe we non's,or partners of BPD's have a serious disorder, like co-dependency, or have developed stockholm syndrome, but the reality is we have a very good chance for recovery.  The poor BPD's, well, not so much.

Here's hoping for our healing, all of us nons. 

[snappybrowneyes]

I asked him how this guy was in a 10 year marriage and he said that whomever he was married to had to have a serious disorder as well.

AMEN balancing act on your reply to the quote above!

Myheadisspinning,if your T can't diagnose you, what makes you think the T can diagnose someone they have never met?

[OTH]

Self harm? Suicidal thoughts? Black and white thinking? Intense anger? Attempted suicide?

[Myheadisspinning]

"Given that we're attracted to people who match our own level of emotional development, the inability to self-soothe during these episodes can have far reaching implications for non-borderlines as well. Your compelling drive to remain in relationship with a Borderline doesn't just happen in a vacuum--in other words, it's neither accidental nor incidental. When your interactions are painful, they're replicating a relational blueprint you struggled with as a kid.

Both Borderlines and the people attracted to them, incurred similar types of wounds to their developing sense of Self, and isn't it simply natural to be drawn to someone with whom you have things in common, or who echoes personality aspects in yourself? Well, this coupling is a lot like that--it feels as if you've found your 'soul mate.' There's a similar vibration/frequency you two share, due to childhood abandonment issues. While the nature of those early difficulties were alike, they've played out in different ways for each of you--but the scars from that time remain, unless there's been core-focused recovery work."

[balancing act]

You know, I am not a swearing person.  But that last post has me thinking a swear word.

HELP! I just want to get out of this, I want to be NORMAL, I want to heal.  Is there no hope?

[needPeace]

We are talking about shades of gray here, not black and white.

I had many things in common with my XpwBPD.  It was what attracted us to each other.  We are both immigrants, young refugees from the same war torn country, experienced similar difficulties growing up (different language, different culture, stressed out parents).

We both experienced abuse as children.  However his was much more extreme both in kind and in frequency, and he did not have the loving support to recover from that abuse that I did.  That is why he has BPD, and I don't.  We also have different ways of viewing life and processing information.  Yes, I had co dependency issues and self esteem issues but those are hardly 'serious disorders'.  I also held onto beliefs that were ingrained in me from childhood - such as 'til death do us part' as well as "you never give up on your commitments" "You never quit" "you love someone for their good and their bad" "you can make it work, just work harder" "Love conquers all"   and "divorce is not acceptable, ever".  Although I did have these issues - and beliefs - and that is why I stayed in my 10 year marriage, my issues have been addressed in therapy and close to if not totally resolved.  

I do NOT have a "serious disorder as well".  

I would be wary of a therapist that a) makes such sweeping statements especially about people they dont know and b) cant give you a resolute answer about you (who they are actually treating).  Or it could be that is what you heard/wanted to hear... .we all make that mistake sometimes.

[balancing act]

thx needpeace.  that was the glimmer of hope i needed.

~BA

[rollercoasterrider]

I know there is something wrong with me.  I am not afraid to admit that.  I suspect its codependency, but I do have characteristics of a pwBPD.  I also have ADD.  I have... ., ... ., ... .,... .

I believe everyone has issues.  There really isn't a "normal".  We are all a product of our genetics and the environement we grew up in.  And to further that, we are somewhat influenced by the environment that we choose to be in today.  One persons normal, is another persons abnormal.  One groups normal, is another groups abnormal.  Happens everyday.

I think the better way to look at it is:  I am mentally healthy if I can evaluate myself, learn to love myself, learn to change those things I don't love about my, and can learn to accept those things about me I would like to change, but can't.  A true mental illness prevents you from evaluating yourself honestly, prevents you from loving yourself, prevents you from changing those things you want to change, or prevents you from accepting those things you can't change.

Do I have issues... .oh yes... .do I have mental illness... .oh yes... .is it debilitating... .oh no... .because I can and am working on it.

[balancing act]

wow, thanks rollercoasterrider.

i really needed to hear that.  I'm really struggling today.

[Myheadisspinning]

Headisspinning:

"Given that we're attracted to people who match our own level of emotional development, the inability to self-soothe during these episodes can have far reaching implications for non-borderlines as well. Your compelling drive to remain in relationship with a Borderline doesn't just happen in a vacuum--in other words, it's neither accidental nor incidental. When your interactions are painful, they're replicating a relational blueprint you struggled with as a kid.

Both Borderlines and the people attracted to them, incurred similar types of wounds to their developing sense of Self, and isn't it simply natural to be drawn to someone with whom you have things in common, or who echoes personality aspects in yourself? Well, this coupling is a lot like that--it feels as if you've found your 'soul mate.' There's a similar vibration/frequency you two share, due to childhood abandonment issues. While the nature of those early difficulties were alike, they've played out in different ways for each of you--but the scars from that time remain, unless there's been core-focused recovery work."

So based on your info above that you posted,did you answer your own question that you are a pbd?

I think that she is echoing what my therapist told me. I am not borderline, but i do have some traits. I am attracted to NPDs and BPDs. I had an abusive upbringing but I have no addictions/substance abuse, no suicidal tendencies, nor self-harm,no feelings of emptiness, so i guess I have only two or three of the criteria. My mother has BPD, my ex husband has NPD.

[Very_hard_times]

So based on your info above that you posted,did you answer your own question that you are a pbd?

I truly think that the main point when having a real mental disorder is that you just CAN'T know what you have.

When you have nothing, no problem, you know about certain issues, not all BTW.

But when you have a real disorder, I think it is impossible to say "ok I'm BPD, NPD or whatever". I experienced it with my dear BPDgf and her so-called "sister" and "brother" (they grew up in the same family).

She is BPD: 2 months after we told it (her D19 and myself), after 7 weeks of psy (3 times a week), after one of her P told her she was between crazy (schizo,... .) and "normal"( balanced and neurotic people) which is BPD, she only says "I have some characteristics of BPD". And she goes to another P who does DBT. ... And believe me, she IS 100% BPD.

Regarding her sister and her brother, they both are schizo ... .  Their other brothers and sister also have something serious but I dunno. Good family !  ;p  Those who are schizo: the sister is in recovery but spent 10 years refusing to acknowledge anything. After 3 years of psychiatric hospital, she finally agreed she was schizo.

The schizo brother refuses everything. All the other billions of human beings have a big problem, he's safe... .He only attempted suicide at work, spent 3 months "jailed" in a psychiatric hospital, is spied all day long by the military, is spied through his computer, never spoke to a girl (he's 30) in his life, don't even speak about sex,... .

The funny thing is that my BPDgf, last time she called him, one month ago, told him exactly the same things that we told her. You have a problem, look at your behaviour which is not usual, only you can do something, and so on... .

If you're conscious that you lie, you cheat, you hurt your partner, your family, ... ., you don't do it, except if you're a real crual person. So if you do it, you're not conscious of your disorder and all the pain you spread around you.

The only thing she was conscious of is that she yells (everybody have told her during her whole life) and that she was abandoned and that may be she abandons her partners. But it does not prevent her from doing it... .?

[snappybrowneyes]

Headisspinning:

"Given that we're attracted to people who match our own level of emotional development, the inability to self-soothe during these episodes can have far reaching implications for non-borderlines as well. Your compelling drive to remain in relationship with a Borderline doesn't just happen in a vacuum--in other words, it's neither accidental nor incidental. When your interactions are painful, they're replicating a relational blueprint you struggled with as a kid.

Both Borderlines and the people attracted to them, incurred similar types of wounds to their developing sense of Self, and isn't it simply natural to be drawn to someone with whom you have things in common, or who echoes personality aspects in yourself? Well, this coupling is a lot like that--it feels as if you've found your 'soul mate.' There's a similar vibration/frequency you two share, due to childhood abandonment issues. While the nature of those early difficulties were alike, they've played out in different ways for each of you--but the scars from that time remain, unless there's been core-focused recovery work."

So based on your info above that you posted,did you answer your own question that you are a pbd?

I think that she is echoing what my therapist told me. I am not borderline, but i do have some traits. I am attracted to NPDs and BPDs. I had an abusive upbringing but I have no addictions/substance abuse, no suicidal tendencies, nor self-harm,no feelings of emptiness, so i guess I have only two or three of the criteria. My mother has BPD, my ex husband has NPD.

First of all what you posted throws the theory opposites attract right out the window. Secondly, you say that you directly asked your therapist if you were PBD and you said she refuses to answer you (even though you are paying the T)  So then you go online and  find an article that supports what you want to believe. Look, we are all different, we stayed,left, for different reasons. Not all of us Nons had a bad childhood. In fact I credit my parents for my strength. Many of us had children and tried very hard for them,didn't know what we were dealing with, and the list goes on and on.  Your T is telling you not to trust your OWN judgment of men but has the T given you any tools to change your behavior? To be honest, you might want to get a second opinion.

[snappybrowneyes]

So based on your info above that you posted,did you answer your own question that you are a pbd?

I truly think that the main point when having a real mental disorder is that you just CAN'T know what you have.

This is a black and white statement. My pbdh does know their is something wrong with his thinking but the fear of dealing with it is greater than anything else. Did he always know... .no... .many years he truly believed that everyone else was wrong but him. I have watched  him change over the years even without consistent  therapy. Unfortunately that fear rules them.

[sarah1234]

So based on your info above that you posted,did you answer your own question that you are a pbd?

I truly think that the main point when having a real mental disorder is that you just CAN'T know what you have.

This is a black and white statement. My pbdh does know their is something wrong with his thinking but the fear of dealing with it is greater than anything else. Did he always know... .no... .many years he truly believed that everyone else was wrong but him. I have watched  him change over the years even without consistent  therapy. Unfortunately that fear rules them.

I agree that there is a vast difference between denial and how pwBPD truely think. My exbf knows there is something wrong with his thinking as well. He is way too scared to find out so goes back to denial. PwBPD who turn a corner in their own minds and get the help obviously realise there is something disordered with their thinking and emotions.

I do not have a pd, but I have many other issues. I am just emotionally stable and responsible to do something about it. I think life, childhood events and relationships can leave us with what are called fleas and behaviours we don't like. I know I have them and have behaved like a pwBPD on many occasions - our relationship was like a game that went around and around at times - a mind game of sorts... .I played to his rules too, but I didn't like myself for it and stepped out of it.

Self reflection is a very healthy thing. Look at those issues, think about them. Don't feel bad or guilty, but accept them and then work on how to make things different.

[Very_hard_times]

So based on your info above that you posted,did you answer your own question that you are a pbd?

I truly think that the main point when having a real mental disorder is that you just CAN'T know what you have.

This is a black and white statement. My pbdh does know their is something wrong with his thinking but the fear of dealing with it is greater than anything else. Did he always know... .no... .many years he truly believed that everyone else was wrong but him. I have watched  him change over the years even without consistent  therapy. Unfortunately that fear rules them.

I agree that there is a vast difference between denial and how pwBPD truely think. My exbf knows there is something wrong with his thinking as well. He is way too scared to find out so goes back to denial. PwBPD who turn a corner in their own minds and get the help obviously realise there is something disordered with their thinking and emotions.

You are certainly right pointing out that a pwBPD can be aware of his illness and unable to change even with therapy.

What I wanted to express (badly) is that generally speaking, a pwpd is not aware of his illness. But I may be wrong !

PwBPD who turn a corner in their own minds and get the help obviously realise there is something disordered with their thinking and emotions.

Of course.

My BPDgf has always known there was something. But she never knew exactly what was / is wrong.

Knowing there is something wrong / disordered is not the same as :

- acknowledging you have a mental illness

- or acknowledging you have unadapted behaviours

- and be able to identify them.

People usually go to therapy because they're suffering and because they understand there is something wrong, but what ? Knowing what and how to solve it is usually what they look for.

That's why the Ps often don't tell the inpatient the diagnosis. In some cases, it could reinforce the illness. They often wait that the person is more aware of his problems to let them know the diagnosis.

I would just add that one of the characteristics of BPD is  the  "lack of control of executive functions": they often have a behaviour that is not conform to their own values. When they are in such situations, it's ok with them, they don't see anything bad. But sometimes (not always), afterwards, they may realize that their behaviour was not in accordance with their standards. I don't think that when they are not even aware of their unadapted behaviour, they could accept the idea they have a pd.

As far as I'm concerned, when I went and saw a P and then did a psychoanalysis 13 years ago, I was not aware of what I suffered (it was not a pd !). Should anybody had told me at that moment what I had, I would have laughed. My pain was so high that I had to go to therapy. I could not really identify most of the symptoms. I was only aware of some of them. I managed to cure most of my problems, but not all: I discover myself day after day: I better understand now the very deep reasons why I had my r/s with my BPDgf.

May be I'm telling you BS. I'll ask a P about this interesting question. A recovered pwBPD may certainly answer this question.

Myheadspinning , go on asking yourself good questions. Sometime, you'll get the answers.

[sarah1234]

I would like to know that too, whether they have the ability to be aware.

It is very interesting.

Mental illness has such a range and spectrum it is likely to be the case that there is no definitive. Some know and are higher functioning (but in denial), some suspect but stay in denial and some are not as high functioning, have no idea and therefore cannot be in denial of something they have no idea about.

Only personal experience has shown me that someone with strong N traits is more likely to have absolutely no inclination or awareness that their thinking is different to those of others, and someone with BPD experiences a lot more pain, anxiety because of the disordered thinking and actions but is fearful of them.

would be nice to know

[snappybrowneyes]

Sarah you make some excellent points. Just as the pbd is unique so are their partners. I think the problem was in the blanket statement of the partners emotional maturity, it hurt another member. The original poster asked... .Am I BPD?  I think it was irresponsible of the T to not answer the patient's (myheadisspinning) questions about whether they were a PBD and then tell him someone that the T has NEVER met is seriously disordered! That is where the problem lies with the statements.

I am one that has been in a long term marriage, and as of last year actually realized exactly what I was dealing with in my marriage. There was depression,etc. but did not get the PBD diagnosis until last year. Do I have baggage yes, I know why I didn't leave before and I know what I need to work on now. I am very thankful that I do not have to live in my pbdh head, he is far more tortured then I will ever be. I chose to stay for my youngest daughter. She leaves this summer for college and then it will be my time. She had a very real fear of losing her father to death (all of her close friends lost their fathers) so I was willing to "deal" with the BD "stuff" until she is gone. Now this might not be the right choice for others but it was for us.

PBDxfriend, gave her kids up because "she deserved to be happy" ... .then proceeded to tell everyone that their father beat her and was a drunk. Yet, she gave him custody of her kids. I can honestly say that my PBDh has somewhat of a moral compass where as the pbdxfriend does not.  So just as all PBD are different,so are their partners. I have read on some other sites that a PBD can be aware and change but a lot of hard work and commitment are involved.

So I must echo what Sarah said:I am just emotionally stable and responsible to do something about it. I think life, childhood events and relationships can leave us with what are called fleas and behaviors we don't like.

[Myheadisspinning]

I had an epiphany today. I remember xbfBPD said something to me about "stuff that my mind does to me" (meaning to himself not to me) referring to how he was a victim of his mind working weirdly. I thought well, I know, intellectually, that it is self-destructive, futile and infantile to return to a relationship with a man with BPD and yet my mind does weird stuff to me and makes me think that I do miss him and want to be with him. That is why I question my own mental health. I think a really healthy person would run, not just walk, away from these loonies.

[balancing act]

you are not ill. you have been conditioned by your experience.  big difference.

conditioning can be re-conditioned.

[T2H]

BPD has been referred to as the disorder that exists to deny itself.  But even so, there are people who have it who admit they do.

Btw, I don't completely agree with this statement "we're attracted to people who match our own level of emotional development" - and given that it's what the rest of that paragraph assumes, I'm not convinced on the accuracy of the conclusions.

[sarah1234]

I agree, I do not like that statement either.  ?

I was partially aware that my exbf was not emotionally developed very far past about age 16 (he was 26), when I met him, whereas I am a mother of two children, been in my workplace for over 10 years, have lifelong friends etc. Our relationship was based on that of child and surrogate mother, not two lost souls or romantic soul mates. I already had two children and allowed myself to foster another one. When this became unacceptable to me any longer I put a stop to it. My emotional issues led me into this situation but emotional maturity led me out again.

[snappybrowneyes]

Myheadisspinning,

Perhaps you should check out the staying board for that information.

[snappybrowneyes]

Sarah you sound like you are in a good place and that is great! I am on the same path,just behind you. I would like to say that everything we have read on here about BD talks about them being child like. Two child like adults would not work that is why they seek out the caregiver,rescuer, protector type of person. They need someone to take care of them and their insatiable needs!

[Iguana]

I had an epiphany today. I remember xbfBPD said something to me about "stuff that my mind does to me" (meaning to himself not to me) referring to how he was a victim of his mind working weirdly. I thought well, I know, intellectually, that it is self-destructive, futile and infantile to return to a relationship with a man with BPD and yet my mind does weird stuff to me and makes me think that I do miss him and want to be with him. That is why I question my own mental health. I think a really healthy person would run, not just walk, away from these loonies.

Seems more like a conflict between heart and mind. There is a scripture that says "“The heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desperate. Who can know it?" - Jer 17:9.  Our hearts can have strong desires for things we know to be bad for us despite what our reasoning mind has to say about it.