Speech Patterns

[rl669]

My SO has a trait that I've often wondered about, and I'd be interested to know if anybody else recognizes it and if it's typical of BPD. Basically, her speech pattern is characterized by a vagueness and incoherence that can make her difficult to understand. She sometimes seems to start processing a thought in her head, and then begin articulating it half-way through. So she'll blurt out "... .never lets me do it for her. I don't know what to do." If I ask her what on earth she's talking about, she gets very angry, so I have to gently tease it out of her by asking "When you say "she", do you mean "V" (our daughter)?" Then, if the answer's "yes", I'll say: "and what is it that she won't let you do?". And she'll tell me that V has refused to have her hair brushed, or whatever.

She also has a generalized avoidance of nouns, replacing them with "he", "she", "it". So she might open a conversation with: "I was down there this morning, and I spoke to her about her homework". From the reference to "homework", I was able to guess what she was talking about here: she went to the school and spoke to my D's teacher about the homework assignment.

When I was first dating my SO, I used to step in and translate for people. Now, I don't bother. I just stand back and watch the baffled looks of the people she talks to.

Another classic is if I ask my wife where something is (she doesn't work, and spends much of her time moving household objects and furniture from one location to another, so I can never find anything), she will, without looking up from whatever she's doing, say: "It's over there". No gesture, no finger pointing anywhere. Just "It's over there". I have once called her on this, and she was very angry, and actually denied that she hadn't pointed out where she meant.

A lot of my wife's behaviors are unconscious, and I wonder if the impressionistic speech is actually a form of controlling behavior.

I'd be interested in any comments!

[breached]

Not to the same extreme, however, my BPDw often feels she has been very concise in describing something to me when she has, in fact, been very vague.  Asking for clarification is a dangerous and touchy exercise.  Ask the wrong way and the result will be "You never listen to me" followed by several hours of silent treatment.  It's frustrating.  I actually find myself feeling quite anxious when she says something and I dont' immediately understand what she meant by it.

[rl669]

I actually find myself feeling quite anxious when she says something and I dont' immediately understand what she meant by it.

+1!

[openminder]

I sincerely doubt they have a coherent idea about what they're actually saying in cases like this.

From SWOE: feelings create facts.

If that's the case, it is darn hard to make understandable for another person... .

[dados76]

my partner rambles... if somebody lets him talk... he starts a story in 1 place and it goes all over... bc to explain one thing... he has to explain 5 other things... tho thats not a BPD thing for him... just him and how he talks...

[Ace]

Shift,

All the time.  My wife feels she tells me stuff when she doesn't and then claims I don't listen.  I am sure that sometimes maybe she thinks I am listening when I am busy doing something and actually not listening(common in males I think) or maybe in another room and can't hear her when she thinks I can, but given the amount of times this happens, I suspect that she just doesn't tell me and thinks she did. 

The vagueness is interesting as I get this sometimes too.  I think in their mind they make sense and if you question that there is a 50/50 chance of getting your head bitten off for not paying attention.  But I guess this is true for a lot of people (myself included), in regards to thinking what they say makes sense, when in fact it doesn't... .but as for the snapping at you for asking for clarification, that seems like a BPD trait.

[seqndluvnun]

My dbf does this all the time... .and when asked for clarification can try to bite my head off... .it used to really bother me.  Now, I just tell him I can't read his mind, I can't hear the part of the conversation he didn't say outloud and if he can't explain it to me nicely, we'll try to have the conversation again when he can.  Then I exit stage left.  The vagueness is sign to me he's dysregulated and validation too late.

[MindfulJavaJoe]

My uBPDw cannot describe where anything is with any decree of specificity that you would have a chance of finding.

Strange. Just thought of this as being her never thought it might be a BPD trait.

[strings]

+2.

She would talk at warp speed - the intensity thing - and by the end, even I couldnt understand her.  I'd get yelled at for going deaf, she complain about her speech, refuse to admit she slurred everything together.  When I couldn't grasp what she was spewing out, I'd get called a whole slew of names in all variations of being stupid.  I recall one time (though it still recurred every few months- same topic) she would be evaluated for her work, and her delegation skills were below average.

oh, she could assign tasks, but she eventually realized she couldn't expect people to 'execute' her ideas without describing, showing, and following up.  Problem was, for her, she had no patience.  She wanted it done her way or the highway.  Home life was very much the  same.

Whenever I tried to predict her needs - and I told her I made a career out of it since it required that much attention and commitment, she would change the locations of the goal posts and berate me for not knowing about it or where they were.

So, I just shut up in the end. I was tired of playing a game where she was a sore winner, which had to be all the time, else I'd get a hellish loser.  Silent treatments were the most abusive assault I suffered, so I accepted the rages instead. 

What terrible suffering to live like that.  For either party.

[breached]

Strings.  I hear ya.  All too damn well.

[sarah1234]

Yes my exbf needed to come with a translation manual at the best of times.

Even on a good day conversations were pretty hard work. To get a good gist of things I would have to do some unravelling. He also liked to tell me everything, but not tell anything properly or clearly. So I would just have a lot of random information thrown at me that I would have to try to remember, for when he next brought it up (then the info would change and I would be wrong about it).

The one that caused the most arguments was when he genuinely thought he had told me something and I had not listened. There were many occassions where I would start to panic and rack my brains to remember him telling me. I do believe half the time he just imagined things he had said, or intended to say but never actually did.

[hula girl]

What a great topic! I think someone could write a book just on BPD's speech patterns. All of what everyone wrote, I can relate to also. Sometimes I think my uBPDh sees and hears things in his mind so much so that he confuses it with reality and what was actually said or done. It's incredibly scary because he's highly intelligent and to me, it doesnt make sense that someone so smart would be that deranged. He also is very wordy when he speaks.  I often get confused when he even says just one sentence and have learned to respond in the way that won't get a rage filled response from him.

[Soontobenidan]

What about this?  My uBPDh has often gotten really mad at me and when I would ask why he was mad, he would say something like, "Well, I've told you dozens of times.  I'm not going to go over and over the same old thing."  I had no clue what he was talking about.  Or, he would say, "I've told y'all and told y'all (fill in the blank) and you never listen."  It would often be something that the kids and I didn't remember him saying.  Or, he would say, "It's not worth me telling you if I have to say it again.  If it were important, you would have listened to me the first time."   ?  And this would leave me scratching my head, feeling crazy and wondering what on earth I had done to make him mad this time, and just how long I would get the silent treatment - - or when the other shoe would drop and he would rage again over God only knows what. 

[breached]

Holy crap Soontobenidan, that exact scenario has played out so many times with my BPDw.  I get so frustrated when I ask why she is mad and her response is "If you listen to what I'm saying, you would know" and "I'm not going to keep saying the same thing over and over, nothing ever changes".   Then I rack my brain trying to figure out what the hell I missed that should supposedly be so obvious to me, only to come up with a big old bucket of sweet bugger all.   It's like an encrypted code.  Little tid-bits of information that were dropped days ago, weeks ago, even months ago that I was supposed to collect and put together in just the right way to develop this in-depth picture as to what she is feeling.  How does she see this as effective communication? 

Sad thing is, as time marches on, I find myself looking for these little clues more and more, hoping that maybe I can put things together the way she expects me to.  Quite ridiculous when you step back and look at it.

[Soontobenidan]

Shift842, for years, I've done the same thing.  I keep trying to figure out what's going to set him off so I don't do it.  But the rules to the game change all the time.   ?

[strings]

Shift842, for years, I've done the same thing.  I keep trying to figure out what's going to set him off so I don't do it.  But the rules to the game change all the time.   ?

Me: what just happened here? (XBPDw has suddenly gone to silent rage mode out of nowhere)

Her: I shouldn't have to tell you.

Me: Tell me what?  I was just sitting here. Did I do something wrong?

Her: Figure it out. I'm tired of always repeating myself. You never listen.

Me: I can't figure this out.  Just tell me. I'm listening.

Her:  :: crickets::

Me: Please?  I must be stupid. Give me an idea here!

Her:  :: crickets ::

Me: I'm not a mind reader. Is it because I <went left instead of right>?  I dont understand.  I <went right instead of left> last time, and you said I should have <gone left>.  I listened to you and did what you asked.  How did I go wrong?

Her: Forget it.  You're not listening.  If you cared, you'd know what the problem is.  I'm <going shopping, sleep, etc.>. I'm not talking to you anymore (silent treatment ensues).

In my post BPD knowledge world, I should have validated at the never listen part and gone elsewhere. Live and learn.

[Shanley]

(XBPDw has suddenly gone to silent rage mode out of nowhere)

strings, this where I would have gone elsewhere. Asking what's wrong has never turned out well for me. I don't do that dance anymore.

I suspect this is enmeshment; they think you think just like they do, so of course you should know what they meant without them having to say it. And of course the reality is that you don't think like they do (nobody does) and it can't be their fault so it must be yours.

[Believing in Myself]

What a great topic!  I could probably go on and on about all the things I've experienced with my uBPDw over the years, but here are a few:

1)  Will only tell you enough to make you look stupid later when you ask for more information.

2)  Talks to herself constantly when she's agitated.  Vocalizes her opinion on everything, especially when she watches TV.

3)  Thinks that verbalizing her feelings is communicating, even if that involves calling the other person an idiot, liar, moron, etc...

4)  Loves to make sarcastic remarks about me in public and then look at me with "the smirk".

5)  Often her conversations will revolve around childlike subjects for days on end, i.e. grandson said this, nephew doing that, tie your shoe, you have a spot on your shirt, etc... .

Many more, but have to go back to work.

[Fish]

My uBPDw forgets within seconds what she just said. Then when she is reminded she likes to claim that everyone is trying to make her think she is crazy. Here is an example from last night when she and s17 were watching TV. There was a celebrity on and he wondered how old she is.

s17: How old is she, about 40?

uBPDw: No, she is a lot younger than that. Look it up on the internet.

s17: Takes about 30 seconds to look it up and says, "She's 43".

uBPDw: That's what I told you.

s17: No, you said she was a lot younger than 40.

uBPDw: Whatever! Why is everybody trying to make it seem like I'm the crazy one around here? Storms out of the room.

[mitti]

I'd be interested in any comments!

This is so interesting. My uBPDbf is extremely vague in his descriptions. He gets annoyed when I misunderstand him, and sometimes he has made an irritated remark: is there something wrong with his way of expressing himself as people at work also seem to misunderstand.

He is sloppy with pronouns for instance using too many “he”, “she” without indicating whom he is referring to, I just lose track. He is also vague when making plans, and sometimes I have wondered if it is deliberate so that he can have a later trigger should he need one when I will be waiting for him in the "wrong" place or show up at the "wrong" time . He also gets annoyed if he doesn’t immediately understand what I mean if I tell him something especially if it is about where to meet.

He may ring to make plans for later when to meet up and stuff. He’ll say he will ring again just before leaving work so as to give me enough time (about one hour) to get ready but then he will call me when only five minutes away. It happens enough times for me to wonder about it.

Another peculiar thing about his speech preferences for other people is that it annoys him when his kids address him by “daddy” before wanting to tell him something, which is really strange to me and to them as there are more people in the room. But he will say it is unnecessary for them to start with “daddy” to get his attention as he is right there. We all tell him, but it is for you to know that it is mainly intended for you and not for the others in the room. He doesn’t get it.  ?

[Mike_confused]

I hope someone is still following this thread... . didn't want to lose these thoughts by starting a new one.

Oh my God, my BPDw is incredibly vague in her speech.   Many times I will ask her something, and her response will be that she just told me this.  I can assure you, when that happens, she has never actually "just told me".  Ever.   I wonder if she thought it, or perhaps, she feels a constant need to always know more than I do.

[hergestridge]

She also has a generalized avoidance of nouns, replacing them with "he", "she", "it". So she might open a conversation with: "I was down there this morning, and I spoke to her about her homework". From the reference to "homework", I was able to guess what she was talking about here: she went to the school and spoke to my D's teacher about the homework assignment.

When I was first dating my SO, I used to step in and translate for people. Now, I don't bother. I just stand back and watch the baffled looks of the people she talks to.

My BPDw has exactly that kind of vagueness to her talking, and it makes communication difficult to be honest. It's also completely unconcious on her part, so she thinks I'm taking the piss when I ask her to clarify and be more articulate. In fact I'm the only one close enough to her to admit that I don't understand ___ of what she's talking about sometimes.

It's exactly the same kind of things. When she says "over there" she doesn't point her finger. She only thinks a direction in her mind.

But I doubt it's a BPD trait in itself. Her whole family has this kind of communication issue. When I go over the their house I get to translate so that they can talk to each other, or things will take forever to get done. Someone will just blurt out *very loudly* "COULD COME SOMEONE HERE BRING ME THE... . I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S CALLED... . COULD SOME PLEASE... . HELLO... . WHAT'S IT'S CALLED NOW AGAIN... . I THOUGHT THAT MAYBE SOMEONE... . IS ANYBODY LISTENING?". Two or three people will be talking like that at the same time, unfinnished sentences directed at unspecified recipients :-(

I just thought that my wife had never been listened to and therefore she had never been used to express herself properly, and therefore she was frustrated when she was asked to talk "formal".

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

Nobody has mentioned switching topics... . my uBPDw speaks like a lot of you describe, no specific nouns (I've said many times... . you have to use nouns) and can be extremely vague.

What makes matters worse, she has almost a comical ability to use the wrong word when she talks... . it's a common joke among her kids to repeat what mom just said... .

Add to that she can switch topics with every sentence... . So if I clarify, "when you said she did you mean d26?" and she says Yes, if her next sentence is "She might be coming later tonight" there's a 50/50 chance that She is somebody different.

When I finally get her to backtrack she blames it on her mind going a mile a minute... .

[Mike_confused]

I have a very difficult time with her vague speech.   To make matters worse, she will speak in a low volume or under her breath, almost as if she is baiting me to ask her to speak louder.   I have lost some hearing and she knows it.

[Mike_confused]

When I get my own BPDw to backtrack, she blames it on me not listening.