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Author Topic: 1.16 | Communicate - S.E.T. (Support, Empathy and Truth)  (Read 56133 times)
vivekananda
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« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2012, 04:31:42 AM »

Can you talk with him beforehand, when there is no-one else around, and ask him if he wants a 'timeout' signal, so if he gets a bit loud, you can say something, or do something that he can see and know he should say, 'excuse me, I do need to go to the toilet' or something, so he can escape. I had a cousin who used to put his table napkin on his head when he wanted to say that sometone at the table was exaggerating too much... .that was a very obvious signal... .maybe you could be more subtle... .

But if he doesn't think there is a problem really, then let it go... .you probably can't do anything.

good luck Esperanza,

Vivek   xoxo
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Esperança_Hope
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« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2012, 05:48:06 AM »

 Vivek , he asked me to do it but when i do he doesn´t agree. I loved your cousin´s tip! Wow!

Thanks a lot.

xoxo

Esperança
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UpwardAndOnward

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« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2013, 10:34:11 AM »

I just read this technique and think this is a great approach to deal with my BPD mother. One question... .  in the example of how to use this it mentions not sleeping. Is this characteristic of a pwBPD? My mother often sleeps throughout the day at odd times and then is awake until odd hours of the morning... .  which only adds to her instability and moodiness.
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vivekananda
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« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2013, 05:41:11 PM »

Hi UpwardandOnward,

I don't know where you saw the not sleeping thing - but nevermind.

dysfunctional sleeping patterns are common with people who have disordered thoughts. And I know from personal experience with depression that taking to bed is a safe way to avoid the world - I have spent a lot of time in bed, it's nice and safe there. So, your mum is no different to many.

cheers,

Vivek  
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caughtnreleased
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« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2013, 06:01:49 PM »

Even though this thread hasn't been commented on in a long time I'm going to try and see if I can apply this to a recent incident with my uBPD mom:

Situation: I am invited for dinner and arrive a bit early. It's her and me alone, she doesn't really engage with me except to say oh, it's you, so I respond with a "hello, how was your day today?", she shows me the stuff she bought when she went shopping, and I tell her it looks very nice, then sensing she is not in a good mood I go write an email.  Within minutes she barks out at me from the kitchen to do a chore (to which I respond I'm writing an email), she then pokes her head out (seems she doesn't trust that I'm doing that) and she sees me using her computer and tells me I better not log her out of her computer account because when I did it four months ago to use my own account she couldn't remember her password and it took some effort to get her password back.

So here we go:

caughtnreleased, go do x for me

Me: just a minute I am finishing writing an email.

then

Don't you mess up my account again

S:  I want the time we spend together to be pleasant for both of us. 

E:  I understand you are feeling stressed, that you feel like you are the only one doing the work in the kitchen and that my using your computer is bothering you. (of course she keeps complaining about how she does all the work in the kitchen but cannot actually STAND anyone doing anything other than cleaning up after her)

T: I came over for dinner because I would like to see you and spend time with the family.  However it is difficult when you only engage with me by asking me to do house chores or to tell me that you don't seem to trust me using your computer.   Please explain to me what it is that is bothering you and how we can fix it so that we can spend a pleasant evening together.

I don't know if this will change the way she interacts, because this type of behavior is the norm, but I do see the value in confronting the behavior rather than the person.  In the meantime, I need to also process my own hurt towards her for the many many years of being picked on, which I have to say diminishes my capacity to use these types of tools because I do harbor resentment. But I certainly will try it.
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The crumbs of love that you offer me, they're the crumbs I've left behind. - L. Cohen
an0ught
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« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2013, 01:53:11 PM »

Even though this thread hasn't been commented on in a long time I'm going to try and see if I can apply this to a recent incident with my uBPD mom:

Smiling (click to insert in post) Workshops are always live. We can't switch of the warning that comes up when no one has posted for a while selectively on this board. Good to see that you jumped in  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Situation: I am invited for dinner and arrive a bit early. It's her and me alone, she doesn't really engage with me except to say oh, it's you, so I respond with a "hello, how was your day today?", she shows me the stuff she bought when she went shopping, and I tell her it looks very nice, then sensing she is not in a good mood I go write an email.  Within minutes she barks out at me from the kitchen to do a chore (to which I respond I'm writing an email), she then pokes her head out (seems she doesn't trust that I'm doing that) and she sees me using her computer and tells me I better not log her out of her computer account because when I did it four months ago to use my own account she couldn't remember her password and it took some effort to get her password back.

So here we go:

caughtnreleased, go do x for me

Me: just a minute I am finishing writing an email.

then

Don't you mess up my account again

S:  I want the time we spend together to be pleasant for both of us.  

E:  I understand you are feeling stressed, that you feel like you are the only one doing the work in the kitchen and that my using your computer is bothering you. (of course she keeps complaining about how she does all the work in the kitchen but cannot actually STAND anyone doing anything other than cleaning up after her)

T: I came over for dinner because I would like to see you and spend time with the family.  However it is difficult when you only engage with me by asking me to do house chores or to tell me that you don't seem to trust me using your computer.   Please explain to me what it is that is bothering you and how we can fix it so that we can spend a pleasant evening together.

Hmm, you are getting YOUR point across. But is this SET and is SET the best approach here?

Is is SET? A good test is the use of "I". In SET one should try to avoid using "I" at all - avoid in ST and totally avoid in E - a good way to do this is to start without worrying about it and then REFORMULATING it without using "I". Doing that helps us shifting perspective from "I" to "YOU". Also When looking at T it is a bit long and is explaining a lot. When one explains one is often taking a defensive stance and easily falls into JADE. A good emotional mindset for SET is not defensive but balanced - we have nothing to fear - facts stand by themselves - we are not emotionally involved. This is important as we communicate our mental mindset with posture and tone of voice quite loudly - no matter what words we use. Here is a slightly better version - still not perfect:

S: I'll explain

E: You are worried about being locked out of the internet. Remembering passwords sucks.

T: It is a high priority email that must be sent today. I estimate to be finished in 10min and I promise NOT to to log you out.

Now is SET the right approach here at all? Not sure - there are not much facts to convey. Your mother has had a bad experience in the past, afraid of being locked out of the computer and is now panicking. Signaling that this concern has been heard may well have been enough. A validating response could have been:

V: Oh, being locked out of your own computer! Would not like that either, sorry about when it happened. Will take care it will NOT happen this time. Thanks for letting me use your computer, it is really important.

This takes care of her fears and possibly her resentment of you using her computer and not helping her (in my experience mothers have a knack of wanting to be helped but are really bad of letting themselves helped).

I don't know if this will change the way she interacts, because this type of behavior is the norm, but I do see the value in confronting the behavior rather than the person.

Validation is about confronting emotions and strikes at the heart of dysregulation which is root of less than rational behavior.

Boundaries is about protecting of abusive behavior (straight confronting behavior is usually controlling and leads to blow-ups. When confronting behavior it should be framed in DEARMAN)

In the meantime, I need to also process my own hurt towards her for the many many years of being picked on, which I have to say diminishes my capacity to use these types of tools because I do harbor resentment. But I certainly will try it.

 This is really the hardest part. Validation and SET requires you to see the others emotional side as it is. But it is virtually impossible to do that while you feel strong resentment - resentment is a strong emotions that is painful, distracting and distorting your view. Your awareness of your own issues is commendable  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) and will be a good guide moving forward.
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  Writing is self validation. Writing on bpdfamily is self validation squared!
caughtnreleased
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« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2013, 02:54:04 PM »

Hi thanks for your response. It is helpful.  I guess it's true that i'm not sure whether set is the right tool here only because I feel the incident that occurred was really more  about her being angry about something and it being projected onto me by saying "do this", "don't do that". She was looking for a fight and just picked whatever she could to get at me. And because of the resentment I have, I snapped at this seemingly minor incident.  But this type of stuff happens all the time and it wears me down.  If SET is not the tools to use for being picked on when they're feeling bad what type of tools would be appropriate? Is it best to just leave in those situations? She was getting riled up about my logging out of her skype account which really has nothing to do with email... .She was just looking  for a fight I guess. Thanks again for your response.
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an0ught
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« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2013, 06:41:28 AM »

Hi caughtnreleased,

these Christmas visits are always a tense affair. There are a few preventive steps you could take

  - when arriving validating her being busy, wanting to get the food right etc... , asking her whether she needs help (likely to be declined but the asking is what matters)

  - when using something where she could get territorial about making double sure that her concerns are heard beforehand

Excerpt
She was getting riled up about my logging out of her skype account which really has nothing to do with email...

She is not a technical person and she is close to dysregulation and less than rationale. She may have a pressure cooker in her head (the literal one in the kitchen) and may feel under time pressure. Not a person you want to have a discussion with (hence no SET).

In this situation (and thanks for brining it here as knowing where not to use SET is valuable too):

  - validation (most simple version in this case: "Yeah, got it".)

  - boundaries (leaving would be a more extreme measure but not engaging in her baiting topics is certainly appropriate)

As a general rule: Keep it simple, it is more likely to be heard.

And don't beat yourself up. These changes are hard and will take time. Hope you have a good   9
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  Writing is self validation. Writing on bpdfamily is self validation squared!
Tanith

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« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2014, 10:25:45 AM »

Lol.  Re: "As a non you repeatedly experienced that unpleasant statements are not welcome by the pwBPD - often triggering a rage. Without understanding how and what triggered (often invalidation) you resorted to egg-shell walking."

With my mom an unpleasant statement could be as simple as "I'm on the phone with a friend," or "I want to buy Dad a birthday present with my allowance."  In other words, any statement that even implied any other human had a place in my universe other than her.  Statements that in other families would have been seen as statements of caring.  If I showed care, concern or interest in anyone other than her, this was punished. 
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HealingForMe
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« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2014, 11:03:26 PM »

With my mom an unpleasant statement could be as simple as "I'm on the phone with a friend," or "I want to buy Dad a birthday present with my allowance."  In other words, any statement that even implied any other human had a place in my universe other than her.  Statements that in other families would have been seen as statements of caring.  If I showed care, concern or interest in anyone other than her, this was punished. 

I cant really help here as I'm very new to this, but my feelings are that you are a kind person for caring about others & don't let your mothers defensiveness or punishment change that. The world needs more kindness, I'm sorry you're being punished for yours  :'(
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HealingForMe
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« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2014, 11:07:54 PM »

Am I the only one getting a headache?  It’s going to take me 10 minutes to formulate a response ~ which I guess is ok.  Better to take 10 minutes with a good SET response than being in another arguement.  I'm really trying hard to follow these examples since I want to learn to communicate the proper way to avoid conflict, but I'm having difficulty following the details of SET in a non-involved 'sample' situation yet than in an actual live discussion.  I know this technique is imporant to learn and will benefit us if we do it correctly.  It takes practice to get it right and that for these examples it’s important to critique every word so we can learn what is best and how to make what we say as effective as possible. 

But, I’m feeling frustrated.  I’m guessing that’s coming from being tired of doing all the work in an effort to keep things calm while they just say or do whatever they want. 

No you're not alone, I'm feeling very frustrated too!

I'm not very good at this, I'm just too upfront. But I understand I need to develop better skills. Even though my pwBPD is now ex & out of my life (still in the process of untangling myself though), I do get that these skills will help with others in my life, not just BPDs.

Its so tiring though... . now where's that panadol! 
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wundress
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« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2015, 09:22:37 AM »

Hi

Please can anyone tell me if there are any articles or advice on here regarding LEAP which is mentioned in the videos from this part of the website  https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-to-get-borderline-into-therapy

Would like to do further reading as I think it would be a helpful tool
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wannabefree
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« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2017, 03:28:33 PM »

Jumping in here because I haven't read (or used) this info in about 6 years; and am struggling more than ever to deal with daily interactions with my uBPD mother. From the moment I pick up the phone or walk into her house it is the same endless, raging monologue about how much pain she is in, how late she had to stay up to care for her finicky cats, how hard her life is and how NO ONE helps her (I help her daily).

I do understand that my reactions (even non-verbally) to this barrage of negativity can reinforce her misery; but I cannot walk into a house with a smile under these circumstances. I try to offer support (I'm here to help) Empathy (I know this is too much for you alone and Truth (that's why I come every day).

But she feels guilty for taking so much of my time and instantaneously turns that guilt into anger and rage at me for MAKING her feel guilty. These past 2 years, this scenario has gone on daily. I'm beyond exhausted and trying so hard not to react-reply. But I do look sad (even when I try to look sympathetic, I guess).

Is this not the right scenario to use SET?  Can SET be sent via email so she can read it at her leisure when we are not in the throes of her hysteria?
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