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Author Topic: Ok... I really need help right now  (Read 3835 times)
kennumber777
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« on: September 23, 2011, 10:33:02 AM »

  Here we go again... .

   My brother in law just called me this morning. He told me that my xBPDw called him crying wanting to come back!

   It looks like last night, her boyfriend kicked her out. She was out in the street at 2 am alone.She is at her mother's place right now and I know she's gonna call me wanting to come back.

   In the past 3 years, this has been going on and off. She says she wants to change her life but whenever we set up an appointment with a T for her... .she leaves and goes back with her "drug buddy" boyfriend.

  She says she doesn't need detox... .she can stop taking drugs on her own... .yeah, right.

   I could use some suggestions today please on how to communicate with her when she gets in contact with me. I know what she needs... .she needs therapy and detox. How can I encourage her? Help!
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diotima
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« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2011, 10:51:50 AM »

I hate to sound cruel and mean, but do you really have to communicate with her? You sound enmeshed. It seems like she's had lots of chances, and will do a repeat performance after the bail her out again. I don't think she is your responsibility--you are. She has to decide on her own to follow through. Not your job.

Diotima
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« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2011, 10:52:45 AM »

She got kicked out by her drug-buddy boyfriend. She's living with her mother, not on the street. Let her stay there, it's probably the best place for her now. Maybe she'll get some help, unless of course you answer her pleas to come back to you. Do you think that taking her in with you will help her to realize she's mentally ill and needs to go to rehab? You've already traveled that road with her, haven't you?
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kennumber777
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« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2011, 10:59:50 AM »

I agree you guys... .but the thing is, she is at the point where she is doing some serious damage to her health and as much as I don't want to go back to the roller coaster ride... .I do care for her as a friend at least. She is so thin!

This is very difficult for me because I have a tendency to "rescue" (that's how it all began of course). There must be some way to place a mirror in front of her or something! This is her chance for change.
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« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2011, 11:01:11 AM »

 Only she can save herself, not you... She has to choose to want to go to rehab. She also has complex survival skills... Its up to you to choose how to protect yourself and take good care of you...  

Are you involved with Alanon? Its support for non's who have people in their lives with addictions... Every community has support groups and you will find the support to detach...

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kennumber777
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« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2011, 11:09:24 AM »

I do have the equivalent of Alanon here in my province.

I guess I am starting to feel the anxiety slowly creep up in me at this moment.

I know what I need to do if ever she calls me. It's just that... .I hope this is a starting point for change in HER life.
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ItsAboutTime
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« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2011, 11:19:16 AM »

As a 'friend' we can make a choice to help someone in need by either supporting them when they make the decision to seek help and have the need to change their lives for the better, or we will end up being an 'enabler' of what it is they really want.

If she's going to twist you around to suit her needs and remain in the same position of being dependent on drugs or alcohol, then all you're doing is enabling her to do that.

Right now she's in crisis mode because she's been kicked out by a druggie boyfriend. It certainly wasn't her choice to be kicked out, it was his. She'll want to go back to that life with him and if he offers that to her, she'll be out of your life again in a nano-second.
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kennumber777
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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2011, 11:25:58 AM »

ItsAboutTime,

  I certainly hear you on that.

I definitely won't be the enabler this time (been there-done that)
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whatarideout
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« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2011, 01:00:50 PM »

   I know what she needs... .she needs therapy and detox. How can I encourage her? Help!

what she "needs" is someone to stop being there when her life falls apart. all you're doing is teaching her that she can go play house with "drug-buddy boyfriend", and you'll be there when it goes south.

she is using you. period. she doesn't want "help" with her problem. she wants to go use drugs and have you on the sidelines waiting for when "drug-buddy" is finished with her. you're a doormat.

put your foot down man. she's a loser. it's been 3 years. don't make it 4. she doesn't want to change. she's made that perfectly clear. walk away and don't look back.

you would like a suggestion for how to communicate with her when she calls? i would recommend the silent treatment... .forever!
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« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2011, 01:07:51 PM »

If you really care about her, you should not take her in. I know this probably goes against every instinct in your being, but it is the best thing for her. If you choose to contact her, tell her you love her but will not support her emotionally or financially until she gets into residential rehab. Encourage the rest of her family to do the same. Do an intervention if necessary. Call Al-Anon today and go to a meeting or talk with  someone at length on the phone. Anticipate that it may get worse before it gets better, and that it may never get better. It is out of your control. You might also go to a local NA meeting and/or call the Recovery Services Department. First and foremost, take care of yourself. IMHO, of course.
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kennumber777
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« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2011, 11:09:41 PM »

She's already back with her"buddy".

We told her we would be there for her ONLY when she is ready to leave the drug crowd and is willing to get help.

I still hope she comes back.

I gotta be honest.

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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2011, 11:31:58 PM »

You need to get yourself into Al-Anon, get a sponsor and do the suggesting steps they have outlined for taking care of YOU. She needs to hit her bottom and will ONLY get there when she gets there. Give her "tough love" by NOT enabling her.

I know it's hard but the drugs have her right now and nothing is going to pull her out of that grip but a rehab - and only when she's had enough.

Right now you're just on another rollercoaster... .
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« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2011, 12:29:57 AM »

Ditto on the Alanon. You will find great comfort there. It's a lot like this board in that the people there understand what you are going through like no others because they have lived it too. It's uncanny how similar everyone's stories are and you suddenly don't feel so alone or uncertain.

Is there rehab through the national healthcare system? Or, do you have any reputable private treatment centers identified? The family should have everything in place if she chooses to go so you can act immediately - those moments can be fleeting.

It is best if all family members are on the same page and speaking from the same script.

Of course, this could involve re-engagement on your part, so that is a decision you'll have to consider. It might be best for her family to handle this with your support. Sometimes you have to "detach with love" in your own best interest and that of the substance abuser.

- MF
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kennumber777
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« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2011, 01:26:47 AM »

Everything is ready... .

All we need is for her to take the step.
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diotima
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« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2011, 10:55:32 AM »

K: please don't hold your breath on this.

Diotima
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MaybeSo
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« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2011, 12:05:25 PM »

Excerpt
I agree you guys... .but the thing is, she is at the point where she is doing some serious damage to her health and as much as I don't want to go back to the roller coaster ride... .I do care for her as a friend at least. She is so thin!

This is very difficult for me because I have a tendency to "rescue" (that's how it all began of course). There must be some way to place a mirror in front of her or something! This is her chance for change.

This is not a chance for change... .it's a chance for you and her to do the same old dance. Along with all the other family members and concerned, kind folks.   It's  a chance to feed her disorder, and a chance for you to slip into the oh so warm and enveloping waters of rescuing and codependent behavior.  Meaning YOUR addiction is having her in your life to play this role. This whole focus, this drama... .IS YOUR ADDICTION... .you are doing it right now.  That is YOUR addiction.  Get yourself into therapy and go to  AlAnon meetings immediately.

In truth... .NOT doing any of the usual things you would normally do... .is the only chance for REAL change.

If she contacts you at some point in the future... .I'd probably not engage other than to give her the number of a detox or recovery center nearby, wish her well, and hang up.   I would not engage any further than that.  If her family and others did the same thing... .no matter what... .that would probably be the best thing in the world for this gal.   

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diotima
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« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2011, 12:13:00 PM »

I second MaybeSo. She stated things as clearly as possible--this is your chance to make a change. Believe me I know that is hard because it doesn't FEEL right. Our feelings are "habit energy," not reality. Feelings are about old patterns, many of which need to change. You need to go against the way you feel.

Diotima
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kennumber777
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« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2011, 12:22:21 PM »

I hear you guys. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I guess all I am saying is... .now that I am healthy and over her, something inside of me still wants to reach out to her or at least be willing to encourage her IF EVER she comes around. I wouldn't call it "habit energy"... .I call it mercy... .you know, the strong help the weak.

  Guys, again I say this, I am fine and strong.

SHE is the one who is wasting away. I simply cannot overlook this.
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MaybeSo
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« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2011, 12:52:30 PM »

I hear you and I get where you are coming from.  Truly.

However, from one addict to another... .

You do not sound healthy and you do not appear to be over her. 

You appear to be totally, and thoroughly,  hooked in and enmeshed with her... .even seeing yourself as the person to grant her mercy... speaks volumes... .

Please know we want to help and do not wish to push you so hard that you turn away.

We are here for you. But please keep an open mind to the overwhelming feedback you are getting from many on this board who have stood in your shoes and are now holding up a mirror that you might need to see... .just as desperately as perhaps she needs to.   



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diotima
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« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2011, 12:54:28 PM »

There may be mercy. It is the compulsive part of it that is what I mean by "habit energy." I hope that makes sense. We are here for you and we have felt these things too. I am sorry you are having to experience all of this.

Diotima
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« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2011, 12:55:02 PM »

Sounds like you've done all you can Ken.  Now it's time for her to take the step, should she ever choose it.

You've got to watch out for #1... .YOU!  You did all you could and must now move on with YOUR life.  Start trying to help YOU.  After 3 years of this repetitive cycle, you've communicated all you can, so this isn't a matter of what more you can do.  Just pray for her.
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kennumber777
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« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2011, 04:26:50 PM »

Thanks for all of your replies.

I think y'all are simply missing my point maybe. ;p

The point is, we can't erase them from our lives totally!(even if we try.) I've come to understand that it's easy to say... "look out for #1"... .well,maybe for a period of time, yes. But what happens when/if they actually DO come around? Will we just disappear like they did? I kinda chuckled at the comment... ."from one addict to another". This WAS the case 3 years ago for me.Now, I've never felt so free!

   I'm trying to pick at your brains a little in the sense... .what if they decide to get help? Are we strong enough to offer SOME help at least? Or are we too busy looking out for #1?
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diotima
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« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2011, 04:51:54 PM »

Looking out for #1 as you phrase it is necessary in order to be in a r/s between two independent people who decide to be together and then negotiate and work things out from that perspective--taking into account each other's needs and desires and making sacrifices where necessary. If your ex comes around and decides to get help, then you are dealing with someone who is taking responsibility for her side of things. At this point, she isn't and it doesn't look promising. You could wait a long, long time for nothing. If she decides to get help then it is up to her to contact you.

Diotima
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MaybeSo
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« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2011, 06:06:12 PM »

If she got into recovery... .what would you want to do?

 

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kennumber777
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« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2011, 06:15:10 PM »

Just found out she tried to commit suicide today... .this is freaking me out!

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« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2011, 07:11:19 PM »

im kinda goin through the same with my BPD xgf on at her to get help for addiction says she cant change over night been hearing this for 3 years! we are on talking terms and i cant seem to let go... I wanna try sort her out but know i cant... now its a case of trying to break the contact but i hold on because i know she will get with someone else like her, fuelled by addiction!

I feel deflated that i am not enough my love for her is not enough but I have been there countless times when its gone to bits for her hangovers/comedowns! Think what gets me is her lack of empathy and emotion... she shows nothing! blabs out 'i love you' like it papers over the cracks!

I know i am addicted! Do they have alanon in the u.k? can anyone go there? i need support and soon!

As for your situation ken... .do not bail her out! she'll go over the edge regardless if you are there to save her or not! Trust me ... with my bpw xgf she's had a few near death experiences and nothing i say makes any difference she wants to die inside but will never tell people that! she fantasises about? figure that out... thing is I just dont know what the underlying issue is!


stay strong!  
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cyndiloowho
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« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2011, 09:27:13 PM »

This is very difficult for me because I have a tendency to "rescue" (that's how it all began of course). There must be some way to place a mirror in front of her or something! This is her chance for change.

I think you have answered your own questions here. Being a "rescuer" is the perfect solution for those of us who dont want the mirror turned on US. She has a bf. She has family. She does not need you. Why do you so desperately need to be the rescuer? You can care about a person, and still let them fall on their face till they learn their own lessons. Perhaps you have lessons of your own to learn, like letting go!
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Clearmind
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« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2011, 09:32:10 PM »

Just found out she tried to commit suicide today... .this is freaking me out!

I feel for you right now Ken - however without sounding unsympathic a knee jerk reaction here is not going to help here.

The kindest thing you can do for your ex is call 911 - enabling and running to her defence or cries for help does not help her come to a closer realisation that she is not well.

This is all fuelled by chaos and drama and you need to step back.  
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« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2011, 12:47:36 AM »

I hear you guys. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I guess all I am saying is... .now that I am healthy and over her, something inside of me still wants to reach out to her or at least be willing to encourage her IF EVER she comes around. I wouldn't call it "habit energy"... .I call it mercy... .you know, the strong help the weak.

  Guys, again I say this, I am fine and strong.

SHE is the one who is wasting away. I simply cannot overlook this.

Ken,

She is going to waste away NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO.  It is tragic beyond belief.  It is so frickin sad it is unbearable to think about.   It's going to happen.  You can't stop it.  You can't control it.  You can't help it.  You can't save her. You are apparently not over her and you are not fine and strong.  When you reach the state I learned of here known as "indifference",  then, and only then, can you claim you are fine and strong.  The Disorder, BPD, has already devastated the woman you love.  If you permit, it will also devastate you.  You will eventually become weak and sick, and it will take you years to become "fine and strong" again, if you are lucky.  A very astute psychologist told me early on in my relationship with my exBPDgf, "Run, don't walk".  I refused to believe what she knew, from professional experience, to be true. 

I had known, adored, and loved my BPD for nearly 10 years before I became romantically involved, fully enmeshed and, finally, after losing nearly everything in my live, educated to, and accepting of the DSM-IV Cluster B Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder.  I still struggle with the wreckage.  Rescue yourself before you become lost forever. 

I'm not over mine, either.  I pray every day that I will be, one day.  But I have reached the point where I would never, ever allow her to enter my life again.  BPD is an insidious mental illness.  Acceptance of this fact is the beginning to recovery. 
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« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2011, 01:00:06 AM »

I'm really conflicted here. What everyone is saying about her taking advantage of you is true, whether it's her BPD or the typical behavior of an addict. On the other hand, I would never turn away an addict who was willing to go into rehab. I would facilitate it through her family and, if that isn't possible, I would drive her there myself.  But, it would have to be directly there. No staying with me with the promise of going in a few days or anything. No bargaining or other form of manipulation.

Then, once she is in, you will have to do some serious work on yourself, what you want in your life, your motivation for helping her, and your possible addiction to her/codependency. You will have to determine your role, if any, while she is there and after. My sense is that you should disengage fully or you will truly be back on the roller coaster without any brakes. She will have plenty of support at the facility and from her family. And, in fact, you may actually be a "trigger" that is detrimental to her recovery.

What is the nature of her addiction? Does it include meth, heroin and/or prescription meds

like Oxycontin?
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Beach_Babe
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« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2011, 04:01:31 AM »

I hear, and understand where you're coming from Ken... .I loved my pwBPD with all my heart, like my own family... .and did everything I could to be there for her through multiple rehabs, psychiatric hospitalizations, drug addiction and even, incarceration... .to no avail. Ive come to the conclusion that its the nature of the beast... .no matter what I did, or how hard I tried... .she'd still screw me over at the end. I know how you feel... .I think I will ALWAYS care about mine... .and im sure my first instinct would be to rescue her too... .BUT i would no longer act on it. This was the third and last recycle. Addiction is one thing, but add BPD to the mix and id say its damn near impossible to "love them back to health" wont happen. ever. Lord knows how many of us have tried. Its so hard, but I agree with the others NC is the way to go. Just say no.
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« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2011, 11:46:34 AM »

Yep, when my uBPDh was suicidal last year, I called the cops, they met me where he was, we spent over 30 minutes convincing him to go the the hospital. He spent 3 days in a psych hold, I was so supportive, loving, wanted so badly to help him get help. I came home and cleaned his disgusting room that he had been drunk in for over a month. Laundered his clothes, cleaned up his crap (literally), dried out the mattress he had pissed in, mopped up the vomit... .all of which I should have let him come home to, to see for himself how far he had fallen.

But in my loving intentions, I was sicker than he was. I needed him to be well. I needed him to be the man I wanted him to be. In the end, all I did was prolong the inevitable.

I am moving out next month. I am fully prepared for the fact that he may fall far and hard... .again! He may even attempt suicide again, hell he may even be successful this time. But I have done everything a human can possibly do for a person, and its all up to him now, not me or anyone else. I will be busy trying to get my daughter to see that she cant save him either!
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kennumber777
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« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2011, 08:38:11 PM »

Hi y'all.

Well, it's Monday Oct. 10 (Thanksgiving day here in Canada)and here's the latest from my situation.

  As you guys remember, 2 weeks ago, my xBPDw attempted suicide... .so she says. The cops came to get her and she went to the hospital to get medication (pills). I then spoke with her on the phone for about 30 min. She told me all the usual things about her and her boyfriend fighting and how he was the "MASTER OF CRUELTY" (those were her exact words.)She then said she wanted to leave him... .but this time I must admit, she surprised me by saying... "I know I'll never get better if I stay this way"

  However, she still is afraid of being "locked up" in a therapy centre. I even set up an appointment with a psychologist for the next day and she told me she would call him... .which she did. The thing is though, they set up an appointment together but she didn't call him back and that's the last we heard of her. She told me she wanted to move back in with her brother and I even though we reminded her of the last 4 times she  left the house to go back to her drugs and boyfriend. Her response was... ."Yes but this time is the right time"... .she said that everytime before too. She even said that if we don't let her move in again, she would fall back again easily. I responded by telling her that even if her "drug buddy" would end up moving right beside our house... .if she REALLY wouldn't want to go back to him, she wouldn't go back despite him being that close! I told her the truth... .she needs help.

  Anyways... .that it for now. Please give me some feedback if you wish. Thanks gang!
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« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2011, 09:24:28 PM »

Excerpt
Thanks for all of your replies.

I think y'all are simply missing my point maybe. tongue

The point is, we can't erase them from our lives totally!(even if we try.) I've come to understand that it's easy to say... "look out for #1"... .well,maybe for a period of time, yes. But what happens when/if they actually DO come around? Will we just disappear like they did? I kinda chuckled at the comment... ."from one addict to another". This WAS the case 3 years ago for me.Now, I've never felt so free!

   I'm trying to pick at your brains a little in the sense... .what if they decide to get help? Are we strong enough to offer SOME help at least? Or are we too busy looking out for #1?

Borderlines choose people who take responsibility for their actions. Borderlines choose people who are overly-controlling. Borderlines choose people that are more apt to get hooked into their acting out behaviors rather than look at their own issues of compulsive feel good rescuing.  Alas, that rescuing turns them anxious and feeling bad when the Borderline is out of control. In the not so transparent outcome, controllers become controlling in their rescuing and self sacrificial in self esteem in order to make the Borderline act in accordance with their esteemed wishes- which is fantasy based and not realistic at all.  No one has that power of control over another human being (the idea of it is fantasy- and Borderlines use this to their advantage to keep you hooked.)

Realistically, controllers find it easier to jump into rescuing others rather than letting go of the outcome.  Controllers don't allow for someone elses choices- and desperately try to work a solution. Control of the outcome not only denies the Borderline their own decisions to FAIL if they choose to do so- but also keeps the controller caught in the Borderline web where failure is just not an option and try, try again is the mantra. Letting go and allowing failure is not an option for a rescuer (this is projective identification and needs to be investigated) but it's the letting go that allows Borderlines to see themselves as responsible and not slaves to others.

The best thing to do for a better outcome is to let go, otherwise you'll also become the "master of cruelty" as you don't allow the Borderline to become separate and an individual- An ADULT- with personal choice (and no one else to blame for those choices) and that's the best hope you could ever give to a Borderline. As they say on the board:  "It is with greater kindness that you step away."   Let go of the outcome and let it happen. When she wants to get well- she'll call the therapy centre and check herself in.  You've given her the number Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

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wendydarling

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