My Replacement has arrived ...

[Finished]

My ex has an ex who I detest. I had only met this guy once where I found him to be an antagonistic, alcoholic who is extremely controlling and territorial. He hit me during our one and only meeting. Yes, it was unprovoked.

My ex said he didn’t like him because he was a volatile alcoholic so stayed away because he was too much like his alcoholic mother. My ex wouldn’t even be alone with him because he knew they would have sex.

This is the only guy who dumped my ex and my ex still has contact him. My ex considers him a friend. He’s the only guy that my ex had sex with after the break up.

Ok, so here is the twist they are dating. It may not be a relationship, but it’s definitely dating/sex.

October was our favorite month (and our anniversary) and we had made many plans for it. Guess what? My ex is taking this guy on our dates.

Why this guy? This guy is EXACTLY what my ex accused me of being which I’m not. After the break up I was accused of being abusive, violent, controlling and mentally unstable. I’m none of these things. My ex said he was scared of me. This guy has been arrested for violent offenses. I have never hit anyone.

I suspected he had started seeing someone, but never thought for a minute it would be this guy. I don’t even have the words to express how this makes me feel.

I don’t get it. He can be friends with this person. He can still have sex with this person.

My ex ends our relationship, goes NC, accuses me of doing horrible things to him and threatens to call the police if I contact him.

How come this guy gets to stay around and I don’t? He is letting a truly abusive/unhealthy person stay in his life. But I get accused of things I never did and thrown away.

What did I do to deserve this treatment? This new twist is like driving a dull knife into my heart. It really hurts.

This may be illogical, but it feels like a personal attack.

[Finished]

I was just talking to a friend about this and she was in a 9 year relationship with a guy who is udxBPD (rager).

He also had a quick rebound relationship.

They ended a year ago and recently started talking to eachother again.

No, he hasn't apologized for anything, but he is trying to explain things to my friend. One of the things he told her is that he was trying to make her jealous so that she would come back.

It occurred to me that my ex keeps doing things that are indirect but I seem to be the target.

Like having food from our favorite chinese restaraunt delivered on "accident".

Or, going to our favorite October events with the one person in our town I would have a problem with.

Or letting me know he's planning to move to Saint Louis.

Or covering his FB page with songs about how terrible I am and how he is a survivor ... .

The strange thing is, I realized with this that he is missing me. I know that he regrets leaving.

I also know that the whole thing with his leaving was a power play on his side. I know that he freaked out. I know that he expected me to fix things like I always do. I know that he wanted me to chase after him.

I have tried to have contact, but haven't done those things.

In a way it's very gratifying to know that he is regretting things.

One of our biggest issues was his inability or unwillingness to be direct about things.

If he would call me and sit me down and actually tell me what is going on, ask for forgiveness and then start to work on things ... .Yes, sad as it is, I would go back.

Why? Because it would show true growth for him. It would show change. It would show maturity. It would be the first time in 4 years he ever did this.

But I can't be the one to fix things anylonger. I can't solve the problems anymore. I can't and won't do all of it alone. I can't and won't play mind reading games and be an interpreter anymore for indirect communication. He would have to say it all directly. He would have to show me he had truly changed.

I doubt that will ever happen so my options, with this realization, are very limited.

[Fleabitten]

Its all too bl00dy crazy!

You know that, you know they won't last, you know everything rationally. I wish we all lived in the same city (hell, I don't even live in the US) so we could have support group meetings to get over these crazy, horrible, inhumane, soul destroying relationships.

I have no advice, just a virtual hug.   

[harlemgurl]

Hey Finished.

I know the craziness of it all hurts but what do you want? What do you want to happen from here on out? Now that you know he's found a temporary replacement object... .now what? Do you truly want No Contact or do you want to fix your ex? Even better do you want him to be fixed for you? These are difficult but necessary questions to ask yourself. The power is in your hands to make these decisions. Your ex is an emotionally sick man. He's broken, lost, and will do anything to avoid his internal shame and pain including surrounding himself other damaged people. My ex does the same thing. He thinks he can screw and smoke his pain away. It never works. They only end up feeling more hollow and empty.

I've read your posts and you are very insightful. But you are trying to apply your logic to BPD crazy. We all do it; but at some point in the game you have to surrender the fantasy that your love can cure this man. You have to surrender to the idea that you know what's best for him.  Your love cannot fill his bottomless disordered pit; your love can only cure you.

Put the spotlight of healing back on you. When we try to fight BPD we lose. Surrender. Surrendering puts the power back in your hands. Wave your white flag. Bow out of the BPD game. It's not your job to fix him or make him see your worth. Mourn and grieve the toxicity of this relationship. There is no happy ending in this and this isn't about the other guy winning. The other guy is now participating in the toxic dance; not winning. There is no door prize in triangulation (read definition). You will win when you surrender. You will win when you realize that a sick person can never have the keys to your happiness.

Finished. It hurts because its suppose to hurt. This is how lessons are learned. That hurt is here to wake us up; to make us conscious enough to pay attention to the truth of it all. It won't hurt forever. But it will hurt and you have to be ok with that. They are sick in the head and heart. If we know this to be truth then why do we expect them to magically come back and fix the hurt they caused us? They can't do this for us; hell... .they cannot even do this for themselves.

Finished. Your ex 'didnt choose someone over you; he's choosing to repeat the familiarity of his dysfunctional script. A script that he has lived way before you came into his picture and a script that has nothing to do with you. You cannot rewrite HIS damaging script; you can only rewrite your own.

Untwist your thinking. The rebound/new conquest/former ex are simply more temporary bandaid's to open heart surgery.

HG

[vre]

What Harlemgurl said.

Here's a couple thoughts.

This behavior of hanging out with the loser you describe, while attributing all the loser's behaviors to you?

These folks just seem to have a fragmented mentality. They can't keep it straight whose stuff is whose. They don't own their own behavior. When they do something bad, the distress a normal person would feel is still created, but it doesn't register in the usual way.  It's just this thing floating in their mind that won't go away and needs to be fended off, one way or another. One way is to acknowledge they did it but defuse it by immediately fastening the blame on someone or something else. Another is to accuse or attribute that exact bad action to someone else, and get angry with them about it.

They can't keep other peoples' stuff straight either. So just as you're experiencing, you get person B getting blamed for the things person A did. By the same token, what good qualities person B has, get attributed to other people. When you're black, you're not allowed to have any good characteristics, and you're the garbage pail for whatever bad stuff is in the neighborhood.

Your ex isn't choosing, he's churning. The only way he knows how to deal with the negativity in himself and others, is to find someone, anyone, to be the target and container for it, and for the present that's you.

You can't reason your way through a mess like this, and you can't reason with people who behave like this. The more distance you can create and maintain, the better off you'll be.

[argyle]

Y'know, if you're unlucky, he'll be back.  He probably will be back.

OTOH, you're a smart, charming guy with a wonderful life ahead of you.  Throwing it away to waste time on a BPD doesn't sound like a good idea for you.

It might be a good idea to have a plan in place assuming he does come back.  (If you're interested - really study BPD until his behaviors aren't surprising anymore.)

Here's a few sample plans:

(1) RUN AND DON'T LOOK BACK.  (my favorite)

(2) Hello,  you're BPD, I'll take you back if you're doing DBT and if you stay within the following limits... .(Second favorite)

(probably pretty loose ones, like no cheating, no violence, walking out for verbal abuse, and an understanding that you 'just say no to waifs'

(3) Of course I'll take you back - I love being a human doormat. Really, I have no self-esteem at all. Anything, anything you want. (Please don't do this one.)

But yes, he probably is stalking you a bit. Oh well. xBPDfriend is now married to some poor slob and still stalks an exBF.  (nine years!)  (Well, at least at the 6 year point - we kinda went NC after she freaked out at BPDw because she suspected that we'd introduced exBF to his new GF... .(we hadn't, BTW, just in case she reads this forum))

But really, every day he doesn't come back, I'd say a little prayer of thanks.

--Argyle

[OTH]

My ex has an ex who I detest. I had only met this guy once where I found him to be an antagonistic, alcoholic who is extremely controlling and territorial. He hit me during our one and only meeting. Yes, it was unprovoked.

My ex said he didn’t like him because he was a volatile alcoholic so stayed away because he was too much like his alcoholic mother. My ex wouldn’t even be alone with him because he knew they would have sex.

He doesn't sound like a nice person. What does it say about your ex's decision making ability that they are involved again?

Ok, so here is the twist they are dating. It may not be a relationship, but it’s definitely dating/sex.

October was our favorite month (and our anniversary) and we had made many plans for it. Guess what? My ex is taking this guy on our dates.

Why this guy? This guy is EXACTLY what my ex accused me of being which I’m not. After the break up I was accused of being abusive, violent, controlling and mentally unstable. I’m none of these things. My ex said he was scared of me. This guy has been arrested for violent offenses. I have never hit anyone.

BPD is an attachment disorder. If your ex is BPD they do not have a sense of self. They mirror who they are with at the time. Your ex isn't making a conscious choice. Your ex isn't choosing one over the other. Your ex is choosing to fuse to another's self in order not to have to face the emptyness they feel alone. Your ex needs others to avoid the pain of being alone. They do not have a self to be alone with. It feels like death to them.

I suspected he had started seeing someone, but never thought for a minute it would be this guy. I don’t even have the words to express how this makes me feel.

It has nothing to do with you.

I don’t get it. He can be friends with this person. He can still have sex with this person.

My ex ends our relationship, goes NC, accuses me of doing horrible things to him and threatens to call the police if I contact him.

How come this guy gets to stay around and I don’t? He is letting a truly abusive/unhealthy person stay in his life. But I get accused of things I never did and thrown away.

What did I do to deserve this treatment? This new twist is like driving a dull knife into my heart. It really hurts.

This may be illogical, but it feels like a personal attack.

If you really want your ex back... .stay off on the edge. Send your ex an occasional reminder of how much you miss them. Chances are you'll get your chance.

Is this really what you want?

All the best,

OTH

[Finished]

Its all too bl00dy crazy!

You know that, you know they won't last, you know everything rationally.

No, I know this won't last. This is the second go round here for these two. My ex is recycling this guy. Yes, it is crazy.

What do you want to happen from here on out?

I have no idea. In an ideal world? I would want my ex back as an emotionally healthy person. In the real world? He stays away.

Do you truly want No Contact or do you want to fix your ex?

The truth? No, I don’t want NC with him. That is his choice. I would like it if we could be friends because I truly do miss him. However, what I want and what I need are not the same thing. I need NC because anything else just hurts me.

No, I don’t want to fix him. I don’t want that job.

Even better do you want him to be fixed for you? These are difficult but necessary questions to ask yourself.

YES, of course I would love for him to be fixed for me. It’s not going to happen, but I would love it. I think all of us on this board would. I know I do.

Your ex is an emotionally sick man. He's broken, lost, and will do anything to avoid his internal shame and pain including surrounding himself other damaged people.

I know this which is why I don’t want the job of fixing him. It’s also the reason that, while I don’t want NC, I know I need it to heal.

I've read your posts and you are very insightful. But you are trying to apply your logic to BPD crazy. We all do it; but at some point in the game you have to surrender the fantasy that your love can cure this man.

Thank you. I know. I need something to make sense in all this. I know I don’t think it’s my love that can provide the cure. I, realized today, that I’m just used to fixing things with us. I believe I can fix anything, including our issues/his BPD.

Not realistic I know.

You have to surrender to the idea that you know what's best for him.  Your love cannot fill his bottomless disordered pit; your love can only cure you.

I don’t know what is best for him. I never thought I did. It was one of our core issues. He wanted me to take on that role and I actively resisted. It created many issues for us.

If we know this to be truth then why do we expect them to magically come back and fix the hurt they caused us? They can't do this for us; hell... .they cannot even do this for themselves.

Because we stupidly and foolishly love them and miss them.

They can't keep other peoples' stuff straight either. So just as you're experiencing, you get person B getting blamed for the things person A did. By the same token, what good qualities person B has, get attributed to other people. When you're black, you're not allowed to have any good characteristics, and you're the garbage pail for whatever bad stuff is in the neighborhood.

I know. He can’t and has repeatedly demonstrated this.

Y'know, if you're unlucky, he'll be back.  He probably will be back.

I know.

Here's a few sample plans:

(1) RUN AND DON'T LOOK BACK.  (my favorite)

(2) Hello,  you're BPD, I'll take you back if you're doing DBT and if you stay within the following limits... .(Second favorite)

(probably pretty loose ones, like no cheating, no violence, walking out for verbal abuse, and an understanding that you 'just say no to waifs'

(3) Of course I'll take you back - I love being a human doormat. Really, I have no self-esteem at all. Anything, anything you want. (Please don't do this one.)

Well, we tried Number 2 and it didn’t work.

But yes, he probably is stalking you a bit.

I know I check on him a few times a week. I’m probably remotely stalking him as well. I’ve been working of weening myself off this behavior. I’ve gotten it down to a few times a week and keep working toward minimizing it till it’s gone. The truth is, every time I find out something new, I end up hurt.

I hate that I miss him. But I do.

I suspected he had started seeing someone, but never thought for a minute it would be this guy. I don’t even have the words to express how this makes me feel.

It has nothing to do with you.

Yeah, this particular guy does. I know how my ex operates. He never does anything direct - EVER. Yeah, picking this guy is an attempt to get me to re-engage. It’s his way of making contact or trying to get me to make contact again.

He is pushing buttons hoping I will get so upset that I will contact him again.

I don’t get it. He can be friends with this person. He can still have sex with this person.

My ex ends our relationship, goes NC, accuses me of doing horrible things to him and threatens to call the police if I contact him.

How come this guy gets to stay around and I don’t? He is letting a truly abusive/unhealthy person stay in his life. But I get accused of things I never did and thrown away.

What did I do to deserve this treatment? This new twist is like driving a dull knife into my heart. It really hurts.

This may be illogical, but it feels like a personal attack.

If you really want your ex back... .stay off on the edge. Send your ex an occasional reminder of how much you miss them. Chances are you'll get your chance.

Is this really what you want?

All the best,

OTH

Do I want him back? Yes.

Do I need him back? No - There is no way I’d actually let him back in my life. What I want and what I need are two very different things.

I am finding that I have a war going on inside between my heart and my head. My heart misses, loves and wants my ex back. My head is clearly assessing the situation and stating “NO HE CAN NOT COME BACK. HE”S TOO DESTRUCTIVE”

[Beach_Babe]

If he would call me and sit me down and actually tell me what is going on, ask for forgiveness and then start to work on things ... .Yes, sad as it is, I would go back.

Noo... .DONT! Even if this did happen (which it very well may, depending on how desparate your ex is to get you back) do NOT take the bait. BPDs dont change, the cycle just starts anew.

This happened to me, and I thought it was everything Id be hoping for... .she apologized for past hurts, and for the first time actually appeared to have true remorse... .like an imbecile I believed her... .and, in the end, got screwed worse than id ever before.

its like that old saying... .'be careful what you wish for, as you just might get it'

[Finished]

If he would call me and sit me down and actually tell me what is going on, ask for forgiveness and then start to work on things ... .Yes, sad as it is, I would go back.

Noo... .DONT! Even if this did happen (which it very well may, depending on how desparate your ex is to get you back) do NOT take the bait. BPDs dont change, the cycle just starts anew.

This happened to me, and I thought it was everything Id be hoping for... .she apologized for past hurts, and for the first time actually appeared to have true remorse... .like an imbecile I believed her... .and, in the end, got screwed worse than id ever before.

its like that old saying... .'be careful what you wish for, as you just might get it'

Thank you for this.

I travel alot for work. I hate traveling. It's hard on me emotionally (based on childhood issues that aren't going to go away). It tends to make me extremely vulnerable because these trips are very isolating. I travel alone. There is no repetition in destination so I don't build relationships with anyone.

I have found myself missing my ex during this trip. He was the person I spoke to the most when I was on trips. That has really caused me to start wanting him around again.

This trip has been extremely difficult. I left my son yesterday and he was sobbing. It broke my heart. My flight was delayed. I ended up stranded in another city. My luggage got lost. My hotel reservation was messed up. I arrived with the client 7 hours late because of the flight delay. It was just miserable and I found myself wanting to talk to my ex about it. I was missing him. Travel is stressful under normal circumstances for me. This was over the top. 

As strange as this may sound, my ex was the stability in my life when I traveled. He was the constant. He was at home taking care of things. We spoke every night. He would call me to make sure I woke up each morning. I don't care that his reasons for doing all this may have been based on BPD. I valued that. I relied on it, because it made the stress of traveling more bearable for me.

I was missing that stability.

[2010]

Ok, so here is the twist they are dating. It may not be a relationship, but it’s definitely dating/sex.  Yeah, picking this guy is an attempt to get me to re-engage. It’s his way of making contact or trying to get me to make contact again. He is pushing buttons hoping I will get so upset that I will contact him again.

This applies to your behavior as well. Your dating/sex with *his* Ex last month was very similar with exception that he is not subsuming one of your former relationships- he is recycling one of his own.  Re: replacements: Why does your behavior not count toward this and his does?

[seeking balance]

As strange as this may sound, my ex was the stability in my life when I traveled. He was the constant. He was at home taking care of things. We spoke every night. He would call me to make sure I woke up each morning. I don't care that his reasons for doing all this may have been based on BPD. I valued that. I relied on it, because it made the stress of traveling more bearable for me.

I was missing that stability.

It was stability for the moment is all.  I understand, I travel - I missed having someone to text before "powering down" - it is hard doing life alone... .but a relationship with a pwBPD is like being on a fault line - when the earthquake rumbles, life is no longer stable.

[Finished]

Ok, so here is the twist they are dating. It may not be a relationship, but it’s definitely dating/sex.  Yeah, picking this guy is an attempt to get me to re-engage. It’s his way of making contact or trying to get me to make contact again. He is pushing buttons hoping I will get so upset that I will contact him again.

This applies to your behavior as well. Your dating/sex with *his* Ex last month was very similar with exception that he is not subsuming one of your former relationships- he is recycling one of his own.  Re: replacements: Why does your behavior not count toward this and his does?

Because of the following:

I didn't know it was his ex when I was asked out. When we realized it, we had already started talking and decided we liked eachother enough to go out. Once I realized who he was, I was very upfront regarding the entire situation.

I was not trying to replace my ex with one of his formers. I was truly interested in him. However, after one date, it was obviously too weird to continue and we have decided to just be friends. We still talk, but we do not discuss our mutual ex. That is the rule.

Also, I am not advertising that I went out with his ex. I have no intention of my ex ever finding out about this date.

My ex has made it a point to let me find out about this new development.

I never thought of this date as an extension of my ex. He is his own person and that is how I approached it. The fact that we were both involved with the same person at one point was just that.

As strange as this may sound, my ex was the stability in my life when I traveled. He was the constant. He was at home taking care of things. We spoke every night. He would call me to make sure I woke up each morning. I don't care that his reasons for doing all this may have been based on BPD. I valued that. I relied on it, because it made the stress of traveling more bearable for me.

I was missing that stability.

It was stability for the moment is all.  I understand, I travel - I missed having someone to text before "powering down" - it is hard doing life alone... .but a relationship with a pwBPD is like being on a fault line - when the earthquake rumbles, life is no longer stable.

There were a few things that were fairly stable in our relationship. This was one of them. I miss the few stable things because the rest was chaos.

[BlushAndBashful]

As strange as this may sound, my ex was the stability in my life when I traveled. He was the constant. He was at home taking care of things. We spoke every night. He would call me to make sure I woke up each morning. I don't care that his reasons for doing all this may have been based on BPD. I valued that. I relied on it, because it made the stress of traveling more bearable for me.

I was missing that stability.

You know, it's really funny you say that. I'm the "stable" one in the relationship, but when my BPDex was deployed to Iraq, he was the one to keep me grounded. He was a flake before he left, fell apart right before the deployment, and then really kept me afloat while he was gone. And man oh man did we have sht happen here on the homefront. He was my rock throughout almost the whole deployment. But then right before he came home was when he totally lost it- he's never been the same since he's been home. But it's like... .when he stepped on that plane and we had distance, he was- dare I say it- NORMAL.

[/quote]

[BlushAndBashful]

That being said... .I really appreciated your brutally honest post and responses. I'm so sorry you are going through this and are in pain.   

[Finished]

That being said... .I really appreciated your brutally honest post and responses. I'm so sorry you are going through this and are in pain.   

I'm not sure I'm being brutally honest but you are welcome.

Yeah, this was one of the few times my ex was "normal" as you said. He was someone I could rely on which was rare.

In fact, it just hit me. All of his close relationships are with people in other towns. He doesn't seem to be able to keep a close relationship in the same geographic area. When I travel, he is able to do the same thing.

When I was at home things would fall apart quickly.

The pain comes and goes. This trip has been painful, but it's the first trip since the breakup. So it's a "first" ... .Plenty more to come I'm sure.

[Beach_Babe]

   

[argyle]

@Mauser

Y'know, my BPDw is the same way.  If I'm at least 1 state away, she morphs from crazy lady to extremely competent if slightly needy woman.  Sad really - she really wants R/S, but goes mad when we're close... .

--Argyle

[BlushAndBashful]

Ikr? And just like finished had said, too. It's bizarre (and I read about this someplace... .but of course can't remember where).  We've been geographically separated a few times. I went to basic training about 5 years ago, and we had a marvelous long distance relationship. During the deployment (we got married 4 weeks before he left) our relationship really grew closer and closer. We had such an emotional connection, I really thought we were unstoppable. That was before the PTSD and combat stress set in, though.    A common thread with us seemed to be strong long-distance relationships, and then a breakup just days or weeks before reuniting. I really think/thought it was the anxiety that did him in. Like, "OMG I have to actually interact one on one with this person and can't distance myself with texts or IM's."  Drat, I wish I could remember where I just read that... .


But I digress.  Finished, how are you doing today? Any better? Different thoughts or emotions? Have you had time to digest things a bit?

[Finished]

Im ok but Im not.

Its been 2 months since the break up. I keep expecting it to get easier but it doesnt. I make progress then take a step back it seems.

The issue is that despite the BPD i truly love my ex. I miss him everyday.

As Ive said, my heart is saying one thing and my head another. Im conflicted. Its worse with the traveling.

When Im back home its been better. Im not sure how I will be coming home to a empty house this time. This is my first trip as a single person in 4 years.

Im confused by my own reactions as much as anything else.

I know that this is what I wanted. I know that based on all the problems there is no way to fix anything. But getting my heart to agree with this is so difficult.

I just keep thinking I should be further along after 2 months. Its been 2 months and I feel like we broke up yesterday.

Traveling really stinks. It really messes withbmy mind and emotions.

[OTH]

Do I want him back? Yes.

Do I need him back? No - There is no way I’d actually let him back in my life. What I want and what I need are two very different things.

If you don't "need" him then why can't you let go? This is what not needing him means.

I am finding that I have a war going on inside between my heart and my head. My heart misses, loves and wants my ex back. My head is clearly assessing the situation and stating “NO HE CAN NOT COME BACK. HE”S TOO DESTRUCTIVE”

This is the problem we all face. Our logical thinking is not in sync with our emotions. You have conflicting thoughts. He is ":)ESTRUCTIVE" but you miss the "stability".  There seems to be two of him in your mind. The one you love and can't live without, plus the one you hate and can't be with anymore. You can't really love him unless you love both. It is the same person. You can't have one without the other. This is who he is. If he does go through therapy successfully this split won't be there anymore and a real self will emerge. You have to let go of the fantasy that you can have the "good" half without accepting the "bad" half.

I really enjoyed this book. It not only gave me a great deal of insight into my ex's problems but also some of my own.

www.amazon.com/Search-Real-Self-Unmasking-Personality/dp/0029202922

Good luck,

OTH

[Finished]

You are correct. I swear traveling does this too me. Ive been on the road for slmost two weeks in a row and this is when Im at my most vulnerable.

I dont think his therapy gas helped but I could be wrong.

Also this time the break up was initiated by him and mutually agreed upon by me. He has gone NC and will not speak to me. So chances of recycling are minimal.

Before this trip I was doing well. I was adjusting and making progress.

If I have learned one thing, its that I am vulnerable when I travel.

Home is where I draw my strength and stability from. Familiarity and roitine. Traveling undoes this for me.

Im sure this is a big part of my current issue.

Its strengthened my resolve to get out of this job.