How to stop being the trigger and the target

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

The following is a quote from Matt on a different thread.

"Looking back, I think that most of her destructive behavior - which seemed to be aimed at me - wasn't about me at all - it was a reflection of what was going on inside her, and I was just the trigger and target... .

My point is, in our relationship I think her extreme behaviors, though they were aimed at me, for the most part weren't about me.  This is why marriage counseling didn't work for us and it doesn't work in most of these relationships, because it assumes that we can interrupt destructive patterns by both of us making a number of changes - not a bad plan but if the most destructive behaviors are driven by something deep inside the person with BPD - in my ex's case I'm sure it was problems in her early life - then progress has to involve working on those issues. "

I am in exactly the same position the mention of my name, my presence, a phone call, email or text message can trigger an extreme emotional response from my wife for no logical reason. Having interaction with her concerning our children is therefore problematic.

LC in my only option. Keeping all interaction to a minimum.

Other than being as invisible as possible what can I do to reduce these triggering episodes and what can one do to reduce those episodes where I am the target of her projections?

I have done nothing to deserve this treatment and would just like to live my own life.

BPD BEHAVIORS: Projection

Matt you also described this as being like a force of nature. Trying to fight it directly is futile. Non of us would foolish enough to try to stand up to a hurricane or a tornado but trying to reason with a pwBPD when you are the target if their rage is something we can foolishly get caught up in. The latter is particularly true when false allegations are made.

What do you do to avoid being a trigger and a target?

MJJ

[MindfulJavaJoe]

The following is a quote from Matt on a different thread.

"Looking back, I think that most of her destructive behavior - which seemed to be aimed at me - wasn't about me at all - it was a reflection of what was going on inside her, and I was just the trigger and target... .

My point is, in our relationship I think her extreme behaviors, though they were aimed at me, for the most part weren't about me.  This is why marriage counseling didn't work for us and it doesn't work in most of these relationships, because it assumes that we can interrupt destructive patterns by both of us making a number of changes - not a bad plan but if the most destructive behaviors are driven by something deep inside the person with BPD - in my ex's case I'm sure it was problems in her early life - then progress has to involve working on those issues. "

I am in exactly the same position the mention of my name, my presence, a phone call, email or text message can trigger an extreme emotional response from my wife for no logical reason. Having interaction with her concerning our children is therefore problematic.

LC in my only option. Keeping all interaction to a minimum.

Other than being as invisible as possible what can I do to reduce these triggering episodes and what can one do to reduce those episodes where I am the target of her projections?

I have done nothing to deserve this treatment and would just like to live my own life.

BPD BEHAVIORS: Projection

Matt you also described this as being like a force of nature. Trying to fight it directly is futile. Non of us would foolish enough to try to stand up to a hurricane or a tornado but trying to reason with a pwBPD when you are the target if their rage is something we can foolishly get caught up in. The latter is particularly true when false allegations are made.

What do you do to avoid being a trigger and a target?

MJJ

[realityhurts]

Hi JavaJoe,

It's an interesting question. From my own experience I can't say that not challenging any false allegations is a good idea. My ex would throw all sorts of allegations of how I made her feel and I just accepted that regardless of the lack of any foundation. If that's how she felt then who am I to argue? I can't read her mind.

Can you avoid being a target? I really don't think you can, you have no choice in this.

As for being a trigger, my ex sent me an email asking if I wanted to meet up to say goodbye    but then quickly followed it up with another email saying it maybe too soon as she shakes when she sees me and knows that's not my fault.  ?

I'm in NC and she shakes when she sees me? That suggests that she's either a. Scared of me

b. I can't get past a. to be honest. I have no idea why she would be scared but I still feel ashamed and embarrassed.

She does acknowledge that it's not my fault but it doesn't make me feel any better. Anyway, if that happens then I'm the trigger for something

So how can you avoid being a target or a trigger?

It's not your choice... therefore you can't.

[Willy]

What do you do to avoid being a trigger and a target?

We do have mutual acquaintances and have the same places we go. I do nothing to avoid being a trigger. I had enough of her controlling behavior, and I will not let her dictate where I go, whom I speak to and what I say.

Like the previous post, last time she saw me she hid from me, so I must have triggered something, but will not change my behaviour because of her anymore. I am not looking for 'confrontation', but will also not avoid it.

[FindingMe2011]

I also have children with BPD, and we are also trying to navigate, through a drawn out divorce. Like so many other posts I have read. I could have written this same post by Matt. Im so grateful for finding this site. It has given me the knowledge and tools, to approach my life, my r/s with the stbxuBPDw, and most importantly, my r/s with my 2 children, in a much healthier way. Having the ability, to better guide them, as they approach the teenage years. It is, one of the most rewarding feelings, I will ever have.

  Just as Matt has done, LC is/was, my only option. From time to time, she dolls herself up, and puts herself in positions for me to reengauge. I decline, and move on. When I recieve the attacking emails and texts, I dont reply.( the court ordered me to unblock her, but I only have to respond to medical emergencies) If they seem to esculate, and start to disrupt what Im doing. I reply in a way, which she is not looking for.

   The last time she did this, my reply came along these lines. " Im sorry you feel this way, and can understand if you feel this way, if you did not get my email concerning this." She continued for a few more hours, and at the end of the day. I replied once more, " I only say this, because I care for your well being. Im not sure how much of this will make sense, but here it goes. When the pain becomes too great, hopefully one does something different, than what they have done subconciously, their whole life. The pain you carry, is not even rightfully yours to carry. We both deserve better, and I hope you find it.  PEACE". This has stopped the attacks for the past couple of weeks or so.  I expect them to start up again and wonder how much she understood, other than the comment, of caring for her well being. Probably not much, and it doesnt really matter. It was said more for me, not her, but seemed to just confuse her more, but my thinking is, a better her, is better for my kids, as we split parenting time.

  She has emailed me, and asked me, just exactly, what do I expect from her? My reply was simply, " I no longer, expect anything from you."  I realize that my low contact, has dug into her abandonment fears. I also realize, having contact with her would start up, me being subjected to, manipulation, triangulation (read definition), projections, distortions, ect., ect., so what does one do ? Its hard, and exhausting, to enteract with someone, who is constantly looking for control, or a piece of my SELF. I should know, I did the dance for over a decade. So this is what I do.   Continue to live my life, is my answer.   I will have feelings for this person for the rest of my life. This is who I am. But its her life, and she has the right, to do with it, what she wants.   For now, unless she went to therapy, and learned how to love herself, and have the ability to see things even close, to how I do. I dont see the point. I did the work, and will continue. I accepted poor behavior from her, for many years, by choice. I now chose, not to, kids or no kids.  PEACE

 

     

 

   

[MindfulJavaJoe]

The following workshop applies to couples who are still together but there are lessons which I think I could apply to my situation.

As we are divorcing I have to also think about the legal perspective as well.

Stop accusations and blaming

United for Now makes the following suggestion:

Respond with "Stop accusing and blaming me right now! Stop it!"  In a firm and calm voice.

Do not yell or appear angry, since this will open up a way for them to counter attack you.

After you have spoken your truth, taking a time out is a great way for both of you to step back so that things don't get worse.


******************* very important ****************************

This tactic is to be used only when you are being accused, attacked, or unjustly blamed.

This is NOT to be used too often, or it loses it's effectiveness. Therefore don't use this to get them to shut up so you can speak.


Also - Don't spend a second trying to explain why you weren't doing what you were accused of doing or guilty of being blamed for. Just say "stop it!". Abusive statements are lies about you which are told to you. They violate your boundaries. The abuser in effect invades your mind, makes up a "story" about your motives, and then tells it to you. No human being has the right to do that to another. Offering up defenses, trying to justify your actions, hoping that "if you just explain yourself more clearly, they will understand" - all of this will make things worse, not better.

Generally, accusing and blaming involve lies about the partners intentions, attitudes, and motives. They leave us feeling misunderstood and frustrated, and wanting to explain ourselves. If we do, the abuse is then perpetuated.

If you are feeling calm enough, you might want to add... .

"I don't ever want to hear you say that again!"

"please remember who you're talking to!"

"don't talk like that to me!"

"I think you know better than that!"

again, in a calm voice that isn't angry.

[2010]

Respond with "Stop accusing and blaming me right now! Stop it!"  In a firm and calm voice.

Do not yell or appear angry, since this will open up a way for them to counter attack you.

As much as I love Patricia Evans- the books she writes are more geared for co-dependency and Narcissists than Borderlines.

To a Borderline, "Stop accusing and blaming me right now! Stop it!" is never heard as firm and calm. It *is* heard as yelling, with emotionally charged anger just like this! and replaces the partner with a punitive parent persona.  That's not what you want. What you want is two adults talking- not a parent and child.

In order to talk to a Borderline, you have to remove all emotion out of the mix and hook the adult in them who resembles the detached protector rather than the angry or abandoned child.

":)ont blame me." is a calm statement. ":)on't blame me" is a teflon coat. ":)ont blame me." period.

Now read Patricia Evan's statement again and feel the emotions in it. "Stop accusing and blaming me right now! Stop it!"

Tense, wouldn't you say?

This is a plea. It is not calm, nor is it lessening the dysregulation.  It is another angry child speaking out defensively and under attack.

A calm statement would be: ":)ont blame me." There is no emphasis on the "me."

":)on't blame me" can be said without emotion.  It is an adult boundary. ":)on't blame me" is simple statement that protects both parties from engaging in otherwise back and forth pendulum like behaviors of action/reaction/action/reaction that purge emotions but solve nothing in the end. ":)ont blame me" stops the acting out dead in it's tracks. There is no negotiation.  End of story.

If you are feeling calm enough, you might want to add... .

"I don't ever want to hear you say that again!"

"please remember who you're talking to!"

"don't talk like that to me!"

"I think you know better than that!"

Again, these are better geared toward Narcissists- Borderlines hear these according to one up or one down positions:

"I don't ever want to hear you say that again!" The Punitive parent speaks this way to an angry child.  The angry child is angry because they are not getting their needs met- so now we have a lose/lose fight.

Better: "Please don't say that." = Adult to Adult

"please remember who you're talking to!" The narcissistically injured Punitive Parent speaks this way to an angry child.

Better: "Please don't say that." = Adult to Adult

"don't talk like that to me!" Angry child to Angry Child

Better: "Please don't say that." = Adult to Adult

"I think you know better than that!" The punitive parent speaks this way to an angry child.

Better: "You do have other options. If you want to talk about them we can." = Adult to Adult

If the Borderline insists on making others responsible for their dysregulation, then a calm "Whose fault is that?" can also be repeated- as it completely disarms the Borderline into wearing their own angry child behavior and seeing themselves as separate.  Since Borderlines are shame based, the after effects of wearing their own behavior cause them to spiral down and it's at this time that they need support so they can recognize their feelings and start to compartmentalize them.  Trust comes from a partner that doesn't wear or feel the guilt from their own angry child behaviors and making things worse.

[MindfulJavaJoe]

Interesting:

My wife is 9/9 NPD and 7/9 BPD 

I am not sure any of these will have anything other than short term impact.

I have seen her have periods of insight lasting ~ 3-5 minutes before the projections kick in again.

She blames and attacks with real aggression or plays the victim and blames again.

[oceanblue]

I still share a roof with my exBPDbf.  We have different lives but, obviously, our paths still cross.

From what I understand, he perceives everything I do as "yelling" which is confusing.  I asked him a neutral question when I saw him in the kitchen and his response was "stop yelling at me, all you do is yell at me" which I  know for the last 6 months is simply not even close to true.  Then again, his perceptions are off, and I acknowledge that he does perceive it as yelling because I am painted black and that is how his personal filter works.

I don't know how to answer your question - I wish I did because it might help my situation.  I simply stay LC/NC.  I tried to be validating but he dismisses it as patronizing so I stopped.  I keep any phone calls very short and when we see each other, I usually go about my business and essentially ignore him which honestly seems best for both of us.  If he engages me, I keep it as short as possible, polite and factual.  If he yells at me, I simply walk away and state I won't stand there and be yelled at but if wants to speak to me respectfully, he can let me know.  I notice walking away from yelling with a polite firm statement seems to have ended the yelling, at least for now. I know he craves my presence and fears being alone so he seems to have controlled his yelling to get my attention.  Wish I had known that years ago.

Essentially, I am the adult and I pretty much view him as a child now and I treat him and talk to him like a child.  I use short, non-confrontational, factual statements, avoid emotion and set limits around how he talks to me.  It seems walking away from his yelling prevents the ramping up that occurred when I stood my ground and it deflates any fighting. 

If you look on the Staying boards - people post with what has worked for them.  I look there sometimes to get hints on how to manage my situation until I sell my house.