Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
November 15, 2019, 05:12:53 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Harri, Once Removed
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, FaithHopeLove, I Am Redeemed, Mutt, Turkish
Ambassadors: Enabler, Forgiveness, formflier, GaGrl,  khibomsis , Longterm, Ozzie101, pursuingJoy, Swimmy55, zachira
  Help!   Groups   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: 3.06 | Suicide ideation in others  (Read 31858 times)
Gottagonow
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 106



« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2012, 09:15:30 AM »

My STBXw swallowed a handful of pills right in front of me a couple of months before my kids & I GTFO. Right after she had thrown an entire room of crap at me, & scratched the s__t out of my neck & tore my shirt, all while she was screaming at the top of her lungs, “SAVE ME! SOMEBODY SAVE ME!”…... I did call 911, police & EMT’s arrived at house. As soon as they got there, CB took one of the officers aside to “Talk” where she accused me of beating her up & she was deathly afraid of me and wanted me arrested. Luckily for me, the officer was smarter than that. He came out, told me of the accusations & said, “But I don’t see any marks on her” so he did not believe it was true. He paid no attention at all to my torn shirt or bloody neck. I can only guess it is because I am a man... .She refused treatment or to go with the EMT’s… He asked her to leave for the night & she just said in her most afraid & frail voice, “But I don’t have any place to go, It’s just me & this house, I have nothing else”… (hilarious because she has over a dozen family members within 5 miles of the house). The officer looked at me & said, “You’ve gotta go”. (all of my family is over 1500 miles away!). I left & stayed with her brother for the night. He thinks she is a CB too…...

Being “Compassionate”  & calling 911 could have easily got me arrested if a different officer had showed up.  BTW… Now she gets to tell everyone (and has) that the police ORDERED ME OUT OF THE HOUSE for the night.

If there is ever another situation like this again, I will probably just “Get out of the car”

Logged


almost789
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 783


« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2012, 09:35:32 AM »

Peoples idea of compassion can mean different things to different people. In my case, the person who threatened me with this and I know he's bluffing because he's done it multilple times and never even attempted suicide. I don't call the police in this case because I know. Calling the police would end up with this person being taken to the hospital and grilled by multiple psychiatrists and doctors and being labled a suicidal on his medical records which will follow him for life! With insurance companies and whoever else needs that information,  being dischared on multiple medications, possibly put on some sort of compliance agreement which requires them to "take their medicine" or be re admitted and commited. No thanks. I don't do that. And my person is glad I don't and so am I. Calling the police on him to put him through that, I do not see as compassionate. My life my choice.
Logged
Alvino
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 232



« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2012, 12:08:30 PM »

I am NOT a professional or have done a ton of research, so this is purely my personal opinion. Here is my take:

A BPD informs you of an intent to harm themselves, usually implying that your actions will help determine his decision/actions. You have now been informed of a threat to the health/life of a person you know. It is possible that you are the only one who has this information - if this is the case, it places an enormous potential responsibility on your shoulders as you weigh your options of "dealing with it yourself" vs. "calling the professionals".

Let's take an analogous setting: You and your SO are out camping. She gets bitten by a snake. You believe that the snake is "most likely" harmless, but you are not in a position to determine with certainty if it is. Do you "deal with it yourself" because you feel it is "most likely" harmless or do you "call the professionals"?

This is a 2x2 outcome matrix. On the one dimension you have the BPD SO actually intending to kill or seriously harm (S) vs. not kill or seriously harm (NOT S) themselves. On the other dimension is your choice of getting immediate help or not. Let's go through the 4 potential outcomes (focusing on the BPD - of course with a BPD you always have to be prepared to deal with accusations of domestic violence against a BPD's SO, especially if you are male):

S and 911 - if they are in time, you helped save a life and may have contributed to the BPD getting professional help for his disorder. Of course they can still decide to kill themselves later, but for now they get to live another day. (++)

NOT S and NOT 911 - while there is not actual threat to their lives, you are possibly still the only person that knows about their threat. There is also a risk if the BPD feels you are not "taking them seriously enough" that they may escalate the threat level to get a reaction (such as full compliance) out of you by actually starting to (non-lethally) harm themselves. (0 / -)

NOT S and 911 - while there is no actual threat to their lives, they are now in contact with professionals who can help make that determination and potentially facilitate the BPD getting the medical attention they need. Also the BPD now knows that trying to use threats of suicide to control you can have a cost attached: Having to deal with emergency responders. This may discourage them from using threats of suicide to emotionally control you again. (0 / +)

S and NOT 911 - here the BPD may die or be seriously injured, causing follow-on emotional trauma to family / kids - and you would have to live with the guilt of not having decided not to act on the information you had. While you may be able to "logically" tell yourself that it was not your fault, I'm not sure your conscience will be so rational. ( -- )

The problem with the decision matrix is of course that you do not know whether the BPDs intention is suicide or not, so you have to make a decision under this uncertainty. "I don't think they will do it" is not a solid base to make what might literally be a life-and-death decision.

In my view,

911 comes with ( ++ ) and (0 / + ) outcome

NOT 911 comes with ( -- ) and (0 / - ) outcome.

I would call the professionals. That does not mean that your personal decision to handle it yourself is necessarily "wrong", but you would be taking a risky gamble that I would not be prepared to take and would not recommend others take.
Logged
lbjnltx
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
What is your relationship status with them: widowed
Posts: 7766


we can all evolve into someone beautiful


« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2012, 12:22:33 PM »

When someone is using suicidal threats to meet their emotional needs they are in need of professional help.  When professionals step in an opportunity exists for them to get that professional help.  If professionals are not brought in and there is no accountability for these threats the behaviors will most likely continue.  Repeated behaviors have a pay off somewhere or they wouldn't be repeated.

I think it is important for all of us to explore this in depth and get clarity so that if or when the times comes we can make a well informed decision.  :)uring times of crisis it is difficult to think clearly and time may be of the essence.  

And, yes, I have had to call 911 several times for my own daughter when she was raging a threatening to jumop out of a window.

Thank you Alvino for that very good explanation that you took the time to post!

lbjnltx
Logged

 BPDd-13 Residential Treatment - keep believing in miracles
Skip
Site Director
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 7927


« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2012, 02:19:31 PM »

Keeping it all in perspective  Smiling (click to insert in post)  Don't wait for a distressed call to act.

1) 95% of suicidal ideation is related to chronic or ongoing depression - it's not a isolated event - its an impulsive reaction to ongoing depression.

2) Suicidal ideation needs professional treatment. Early treatment is important.

3) People will be most responsive to treatment that they buy into and that is safe and comfortable - and most importantly have a supportive family (studies have shown the family role as very significant).  All clinicians agree about getting a person to professional help in the most cooperative way as possible.  All clinicians stress the importance of involving family - bringing it out in the open and helping.

4) 911 primarily serves to physically disrupt an act.  It is force and it can save lives to stop aggression and should be used in situation where a reasonable person perceives a threat. But it is not a substitute for treatment and support and it has downsides.  

We often know the person is distress and the history of prior suicide attempts, the severity of acute depressive incidents or compounding depressive incidents, changes in behavior, etc.  We may not make a perfect decision, but we can do better than the person who is distressed. We want to make a wisemind decision and error on the side of taking action in ambiguous situations.

5) Compassion and support during and after the 911 call is extremely important to recovery.

6) Calling a 911 and cutting off communication - going NC or changing a phone number - will likely cause the depressed person to experience a major depressive event (the 911 episode with rejection) that may be  greater than the what spurred the initial plea for help - especially if it was a benign plea.  This could make the person more acutely depressed in the period after release.  It could shame the person into withdrawal and reluctance to seek treatment or  share the expression of future feelings of despair.  Remember, depression is a more chronic problem (weeks) and commitment laws limit the government from forcibly holding anyone for more than 72 hours.

7) Using 911 to enforce no contact or send a rejection message is abusive.

8) Our role as members is not to prescribe to members which actions to take, but to communicate a perspective and balance so that they can make informed wisemind decisions.  It would be nice if there was a one size fits all, 15 word answer - but this topic is far more complicated.

9)  A lot of members of Leaving and Undecided, over the years, have approached this topic as manipulation and made recommendation on how to stop manipulation.  Yes, this is a effective way to get a faker to stop faking it.  But is it responsible way to act?

~ A pwBPD is 400% more likely to commit suicide that they average American,

~ Only 1 in 25 suicide attempts is successful. Having a previous suicide attempt is not an indication of faking, is is considered by professions to be a significant risk factor to suicide death,

~ 95% of suicides are with people that have had suicidal thoughts - Having a previous suicide thoughts is not an indication of faking, is is considered by professions to be a significant risk factor to suicide death,

~ Not all suicidal ideation is equal - the severity and duration of depression, the severity of acute depressive incidents or compounding depressive incidents (e.g., family death, loss of job, relationship failure), changes in behavior, etc. - the availability of a means and a plan -  all must be considered when making decisions on how to respond and act.

Logged

 
GreenMango
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4331



« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2012, 02:38:13 PM »

What is a suicide threat?

We reviewed the last 20 times members recommended 911 for "suicide threat" and none of the situations were actionable calls. In one case, a member was concerned that her ex boyfriend may be depressed and possibly suicidal (in general). There were no words or actions.  She was advised to call 911 and simultaneously go no contact.  Can you imagine a full emergency contingent just showing up one day?  And the person that called them not taking calls?  Frankly, the caller would probably at risk for making a malicious false alarm if she did this.  

In 18 more cases where the situations did not rise to the level of suicide threat all were told to call 911... .mostly to shut the person up. In 14 of the cases, it was also recommended that the caller go no contact after making the call. This is not responsible.

In the remaining case an estranged husband was clearly getting his affairs in order over a 4 month time frame and has not mentioned suicide. He seemed seriously suicidal. Members again recommended 911. Clearly this man needs help, but this isn't going to help.   EMTs can't transport someone for cashing in a 401 K and transferring the money to a daughter.

There is a difference in general depression and a suicide threat

It's really important to separate out general depression which requires one type of response (not 911) and a suicide threat - a risk event.  911 calls are good for:

1) A true in-the-moment threat event - not just casual or past musings

2) Only if the person refuses to go to talk to a HOTLINE and follow their advice or is too emotional/unstable to make the trip in a car.
Logged

Auspicious
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 8104



« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2012, 06:42:40 AM »

When a person is making the genuine actionable suicide threat they are effectively saying "I cannot safely cope with this situation - I need serious intervention to protect my life and health."  And if the person is not amenable to less forceful treatment and support, you need to take action.

~ A pwBPD is 400% more likely to commit suicide that they average American,

~ Only 1 in 25 suicide attempts is successful. Having a previous suicide attempt is not an indication of faking, is is considered by professions to be a significant risk factor to suicide death,

~ 95% of suicides are with people that have had suicidal thoughts - Having a previous suicide thoughts is not an indication of faking, is is considered by professions to be a significant risk factor to suicide death,

~ Not all suicidal ideation is equal - the severity and duration of depression, the severity of acute depressive incidents or compounding depressive incidents (e.g., family death, loss of job, relationship failure), changes in behavior, etc. - the availability of a means and a plan -  all must be considered when making decisions on how to respond and act.

It's precisely for these reasons that if my wife ever makes another suicide threat (she has a history), then I will (unless she immediately calms down and agrees to go straight to her therapist or to a hospital) call 911.
Logged

Have you read the Lessons?
almost789
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 783


« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2012, 01:22:36 PM »

I would just like to clarify and add to my previous comment about not calling 911. In this case, I describe above and my decision in not callling 911, the person I am speaking of is not BPD and also does not have mental illness. It's basically a threat I get when in arguments. Similar to someone who says... .if you don't shut up... I'm going to jump off a cliff, jump in front of a bus, shoot myself... .or whatever. He does it to make me angry and shut me up and it works because it does scare me and it usually ends the arguement. Latter when we discuss he assures me, he's never going to do that and just says it to shut me up. In this case, in my opinion this is not an "acute suicidal ideation." Obviously, as he's never attempted suicide in his life and this has been going on for years.

Having said that, if I knew someone who had BPD and threatend suicide, I would take that seriously. I may or may not call 911, depending.  However, I may call the hotline, encourage them to call the hotline and also encourage outpatient mental health suicidal ideation evaluation by a professional.

These are just my opinions, not to be taken as a "protocol" for anyone to follow. Just my experiences and what I think I would do in the situation. Each and every one of us has glean from all the info, decide what they want to use or not use and make their best decision in how they will proceed.
Logged
linusham
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
What is your relationship status with them: Married
Posts: 99


« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2012, 01:05:09 PM »

What about the situation where a person says 'I feel f suicidal every day' in angry response to you saying you felt down?

When I asked further if she were okay she laughed and said 'don't worry dear, I've not slit my wrists yet have I'. She has said other similar things often in anger or as a response if you ever say you're upset or down.

But when asked about it not in a rage or not in that sort of response she refuse to discuss it and say she is 'okay'.

So she is not saying she s thinking about doing it just that she feels it?
Logged
Auspicious
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 8104



« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2012, 08:23:14 AM »

What about the situation where a person says 'I feel f suicidal every day' in angry reponse to you saying you felt down?

When i asked further if they were okay they laughed and said 'don't worry dear, I've not slit my wrists yet have I'. they have said other similar things often in anger or as a response if you ever say you're upset or down.

But when asked about it not in a rage or not in that sort of response they refuse to discuss it and say they are 'okay'.

so they are not saying they are thinking about doing it just that they feel it?

I would definitely be concerned ... .the question is whether that is something you would call emergency services for.


One thing you might do is to call a community mental health center in your area, or the psychiatric ward of a local hospital. Describe your situation, say that you are concerned, and ask for advice on what to do. Those local resources should be familiar with your local laws and available services.
Logged

Have you read the Lessons?
GreenMango
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4331



« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2012, 01:35:55 PM »

Linusham building on what Auspicious is saying this is a moment where you can address the topic of suicide with the person.  And stay on this topic not letting the person minimize the severity of it or your concern.  If you call the local hospital/hotline and they say to bring the person in because its not an immediate threat qualifying for 911 then you can suggest to the person let's go down to doctor and address these feelings.

If the person is yanking you around emotionally playing at suicide, staying on point addressing the issue with concern with love they will see you aren't playing around.  If they are seriously depressed and need support you are there.

Here is our Safety first protocal with good information on resources and steps we can take: https://bpdfamily.com/discussions/search-info3.htm

Have you had a chance to talk to someone about it?  These situations can be stressful.

Logged



Hunter56

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
What is your relationship status with them: married
Posts: 20



« Reply #41 on: December 31, 2012, 01:26:16 AM »

My BPD spouse began obsessing over the Sandy Hook tragedy on the day after it occurred.  I was also very upset.  We have a very large home and live on opposite ends, as our contact is quite limited.  I was doing laundry and she initiated a rant about Sandy Hook that went to a rant about people calling her daughter a whore to a rant about people calling her a whore and eventually to me being some kind of pervert and how I didn't realize how close she was to killing herself.  

Naturally, I freaked out.  She has always engaged in self-mutilation, but never vocalized suicide.  

I had already contacted MHMR authorities (Mental Health & Mental Retardation Centralized Intake) and got a "hotline" card from them.  

Calling MHMR was pointless.  They asked if she was armed or taking pills.  If not, then there was no "emergency".  

I called the County Judge and with his help got them to respond two days later.  The Sherrif's Dept responded and picked her up only to return her two hours later without advising me.  I found out when she surprized me in the kitchen with "I'm going to kill you."  She laughed and added, ":)on't you think I know how to escape?"  I didn't think it was funny, but did not react openly.  

I then called the MHMR people and it took 4 hours for them to give me a response... ."She doesn't appear to be a threat to herself and others now.  She just feels guilty about letting you molest her daughter."  

You can only imagined how I freaked.  

I demanded a meeting and they made a home visit that night.  They said that they could not force her to seek help and would run a 7 day evaluation and report.  No offer to clue me in on the results of the report.  No offer of support to me.  As they were leaving my home, my BPD spouse told them that I was "punishing her" (for what I don't know).  As the MHMR people drove away my BPD spouse lit up a joint she had squirreled away.

Needless to say, they have not contacted me.  7 days have come and gone.  So much for caring.  

It is easy to say that the mental health care system is bad, but I imagine that's only because I actually expected something.  

Tomorrow may be New Year's eve, but I'm going to see my attorney, the County Judge, and whomever else necessary to put an end to this lunacy.

H56
Logged
Tightrope walker
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
What is your relationship status with them: married for over 30 years
Posts: 138



« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2013, 05:47:10 AM »

It is ironic that the title of the workshop popped up, when I was grappling with the suicidal issue for the entire weekend.  My d25 has several times taken too much prescribed medicine and ended up down at the hospital ER.  One time she took excessive medication and then tried to hang herself.  I have been working with my therapist on breaking the rescue role and setting boundaries.

    Friday night she took took much medication (not to my knowledge).  Saturday night she does it again (and tells me).  Sunday night she repeats it and calls me. I ask her to call the crisis center, but she would not.  I read several postings when I logged on Sunday night.

   Auspicous said
Excerpt
When a person is making the genuine actionable suicide threat they are effectively saying "I cannot safely cope with this situation - I need serious intervention to protect my life and health."  And if the person is not amenable to less forceful treatment and support, you need to take action.

   Since she is an adult, I am not allowed to be with her in counselling nor have I met her counselor.  I did call the agency and request that I leave important information.  I did and the counselor did call my D telling her either she goes down herself or the police would be there. When I went to her house, it was full of knives, screw drivers, etc all over the place.  Her cutting had escalated also.

   Like Hunter 56, I have experienced the nightmare of dealing with the current mental health situation. But this time it worked (she is currently hospitalized).

   As Green Mango stated
Excerpt
There is a difference in general depression and a suicide threat

It's really important to separate out general depression which requires one type of response (not 911) and a suicide threat - a risk event.  911 calls are good for:

1) A true in-the-moment threat event - not just casual or past musings

2) Only if the person refuses to go to talk to a HOTLINE and follow their advice or is too emotional/unstable to make the trip in a car.

Posted on: December 18, 2012, 02:19:31 PM Posted by: Skip

I thought this time she met No. 1 and No. 2.  Thanks to the workshop.

                                                                                                 Tightrope Walker

                               

                         
Logged
beachtalks
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 97



« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2013, 11:42:05 PM »

This is an interesting thread for me.  Here are some of my feelings on the subject:

My BPDh has threatened suicide many times, and I have watched him try.  He even overdosed on pills one time when I wouldn't stay with him, going ahead with it when I had given my firm "no," and then threw them up to save himself soon after. 

Most of the time his threatens are his way of ordering me to give into whatever his needs/wishes are, over-riding my own.  I haven't allowed it to change my behavior, and have looked at it as just another way of him abusing me. 

I think every time is different though, and I remain on guard.

There have been times where I have felt very envious of his freedom to threaten suicide, of his freedom to express his sadness and anger.  Every one feels overwhelmed at times, and as much as I value my life and would never seriously consider suicide, I could imagine how fulfilling it would feel just to express the general feeling of "misery" and "helplessness" to him when I was hurt. 
Logged
somuchlove
Formerly " t6450"
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 547


« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2013, 08:26:48 PM »

this is a good thread.  I am not sure how I feel.  My dd 38, has 3 children has continued to threaten to kill herself off and on throughout the past 20 some years.  We never take it lightly but, scary to say it seems to be like the "little boy who cried wolf".  I agree with some posters that in our dd's case sometimes it is a, I just can't handle things, don't want to deal with things, way to pull our strings.  It is very destressing for us.  She sometimes text, like a bomb shell,  better make arrangments to get the kids I love, cause I am going to kill myself tonight.  Or we get the ,  I wish I had the guts to just shoot myself in the head.  I am dead inside so who cares. 

I worry that, because I am not valadating her feelings nor is her bf, when she says this. 

I am kind of confused as on one hand we are suppose to valadate, not tell them they have issues, mentally problems, I am using the words in general terms, and yet we will take them to mental health, dr.s or call 911 .  That is a huge statement telling them we think something is wrong.  Which it is and if they say these things they are accountable for their actions.

My fear in calling ( which probably is wrong) is that she will go to ER, maybe be kept for a little while, then released with not really any follow up, someone had to pick up her children,  bf family and or friends would probably know, because we are 6 hrs. by plane to get there.  She would be devistated, and it may drive her over the edge.   HOW DO WE WEIGHT THIS OUT?  CALL 911 or not.  When you think this may be just, I am really made and i can't deal anymore. 
Logged
Auspicious
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 8104



« Reply #45 on: January 25, 2013, 05:12:59 AM »

My fear in calling ( which probably is wrong) is that she will go to ER, maybe be kept for a little while, then released with not really any follow up, someone had to pick up her children,  bf family and or friends would probably know, because we are 6 hrs. by plane to get there.  She would be devistated, and it may drive her over the edge.   HOW DO WE WEIGHT THIS OUT?  CALL 911 or not.  When you think this may be just, I am really made and i can't deal anymore. 

There are no perfect answers. In the end you just do your best and hope for the best. It is not your fault that she has this mental illness.

She's the one making the threats. She's the one telling you that she is putting her children at risk. Whether she understands it or not, there are natural consequences that flow from doing that.
Logged

Have you read the Lessons?
Newton
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1548


« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2016, 08:15:33 PM »

Mutt I totally get where you are coming from and agree with your pragmatism... .I wouldn't usually interject on a topic of such seriousness... .but with such personal experience... .and also as wishfulthinking has suggested (please correct me if I'm wrong)... .this is behaviour that has been exhibited before by him... .without consequence rather than an impending emergency right now?... .

In the UK 999 calls to suggest suicide threat invoke a rather tame disinterested response from emergency services... .litigation isn't such an issue yet, most police don't have guns (things are changing though)... .

I fully appreciate a phonecall could escalate events to a situation that caused more harm than good... .but I have made a personal decision that when someone threatens such a violent act (and it is that)... .it is not my responsibility to assume responsibility... .for them.

Imo if we consistently react to such threats with that call (in my country of origin)... .it lessens the frequency of that behaviour over time... .or appropriate care responds every time... .win-win  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
Logged
Mutt
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
What is your relationship status with them: Divorced Oct 2015
Posts: 10015



WWW
« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2016, 08:31:32 PM »

Thanks Newton. This info should be helpful.  

Keeping it all in perspective  Smiling (click to insert in post)  :)on't wait for a distressed call to act.

1) 95% of suicidal ideation is related to chronic or ongoing depression - it's not a isolated event - its an impulsive reaction to ongoing depression.

2) Suicidal ideation needs professional treatment. Early treatment is important.

3) People will be most responsive to treatment that they buy into and that is safe and comfortable - and most importantly have a supportive family (studies have shown the family role as very significant).  All clinicians agree about getting a person to professional help in the most cooperative way as possible.  All clinicians stress the importance of involving family - bringing it out in the open and helping.

4) 911 primarily serves to physically disrupt an act.  It is force and it can save lives to stop aggression and should be used in situation where a reasonable person perceives a threat. But it is not a substitute for treatment and support and it has downsides.  

We often know the person is distress and the history of prior suicide attempts, the severity of acute depressive incidents or compounding depressive incidents, changes in behavior, etc.  We may not make a perfect decision, but we can do better than the person who is distressed. We want to make a wisemind decision and error on the side of taking action in ambiguous situations.

5) Compassion and support during and after the 911 call is extremely important to recovery.

6) Calling a 911 and cutting off communication - going NC or changing a phone number - will likely cause the depressed person to experience a major depressive event (the 911 episode with rejection) that may be  greater than the what spurred the initial plea for help - especially if it was a benign plea.  This could make the person more acutely depressed in the period after release.  It could shame the person into withdrawal and reluctance to seek treatment or  share the expression of future feelings of despair.  Remember, depression is a more chronic problem (weeks) and commitment laws limit the government from forcibly holding anyone for more than 72 hours.

7) Using 911 to enforce no contact or send a rejection message is abusive.

8) Our role as members is not to prescribe to members which actions to take, but to communicate a perspective and balance so that they can make informed wisemind decisions.  It would be nice if there was a one size fits all, 15 word answer - but this topic is far more complicated.

9)  A lot of members of Leaving and Undecided, over the years, have approached this topic as manipulation and made recommendation on how to stop manipulation.  Yes, this is a effective way to get a faker to stop faking it.  But is it responsible way to act?

~ A pwBPD is 400% more likely to commit suicide that they average American,

~ Only 1 in 25 suicide attempts is successful. Having a previous suicide attempt is not an indication of faking, is is considered by professions to be a significant risk factor to suicide death,

~ 95% of suicides are with people that have had suicidal thoughts - Having a previous suicide thoughts is not an indication of faking, is is considered by professions to be a significant risk factor to suicide death,

~ Not all suicidal ideation is equal - the severity and duration of depression, the severity of acute depressive incidents or compounding depressive incidents (e.g., family death, loss of job, relationship failure), changes in behavior, etc. - the availability of a means and a plan -  all must be considered when making decisions on how to respond and act.

Logged

"Let go or be dragged" -Zen proverb
Newton
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1548


« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2016, 09:23:35 PM »

Thanks for the article Mutt... .Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)... .hopefully thought provoking to members... .

I read similar as part of ambie training here... .seen similar in my security role... .I think personal interpretation of the information is the 'right' thing to do here... .we only have so much influence/control in any given situation we didn't instigate... .we all choose our own paths.

A seemingly relevant example (I hope it isn't considered a 'hijack' by the thread host... .I'd like to hear back from wishfulthinking) ... .was a frantic 'suicide threat' from a BPD ex approx 2 years ago... .I had a call at midnite from an unknown number... .recognised the voice as my ex (separated 1 year approx)... .threatening suicide... .then a guy came on the phone suggesting ... ."everything was ok... .don't phone the police or anything like that"... .

I hung up... .phoned the police and ambulance.  I received a txt from him 2 days later saying... ."Well done fella... .she put all the phones in the house in the bath she was in... .she is fine".  I was glad for them, what if she wasn't?... .I don't want that 'on' me.  I appreciate this isn't the same dynamic as being in a rs, I have similar stories to share from those another day... .I chose to do the same then too (after time and reading)... .their behaviour changed, that is my experience... .I don't want that responsibility... .I am not omnipotent... .this is the ultimate threat other than intended violence expressed against us.

Imo people can act out 'kicking off' to their hearts desire... .I can cope with that or choose to walk away.  Someone who is threatening to take my life... .or their own... .changes the game.
Logged
FeelingBitter
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Posts: 88


« Reply #49 on: June 02, 2016, 10:21:40 PM »

Hi all  

I've posted in a thread before about my experience advocating for a sexual assault survivor who also happens to have BPD, and I wanted to ask a question here - why do people with BPD make suicide threats that they have no intention acting out on?

Within two weeks of me being called into the case, she was asking me "how do I go to the hospital?" but when I asked her when she wanted to go, she said 'maybe' during spring break when she had more time. It turns out she was making these kinds of threats for months with the crisis center - she would constantly talk about "wanting to go to the hospital" and then when the crisis counselor asked her when she wanted to go, she replied "one day."

We finally sat down with her and told her the next time she would make those threats, we would call the hospital. She then immediately stopped, and later told us she had set a 'date' (two years out) which was her way i guess of letting us know we wouldn't have to worry in the immediate future while still maintaining some control of the situation.

Apparently she does this with other people too, like her friend. Her friend told her she was having ideations about jumping off a roof/ledge before she went mountain climbing, but then went mountain climbing and according to everyone there, appeared happy/had a great time.

My question is... .why do some BPDs do this? I understand many don't want to feel abandoned. Maybe she was doign that to me and the crisis center woman so we would feel more invested. Maybe she really does feel some deep inner pain. Could it also be that some BPDs (especially if they cross-over into narcissism/sociopathic traits) enjoy the manipulation and power play of having someone worry about them?
Logged
FeelingBitter
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Posts: 88


« Reply #50 on: June 02, 2016, 10:50:03 PM »

Her friend told her she was having ideations about jumping off a roof/ledge before she went mountain climbing, but then went mountain climbing and according to everyone there, appeared happy/had a great time."

Correction: her friend told ME the girl was having ideations... .
Logged


Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Links and Information
CLINICAL INFORMATION
The Big Picture
5 Dimensions of Personality
BPD? How can I know?
Get Someone into Therapy
Treatment of BPD
Full Clinical Definition
Top 50 Questions

EDITORIAL DEPARTMENTS
My Child has BPD
My Parent/Sibling has BPD
My Significant Other has BPD
Recovering a Breakup
My Failing Romance
Endorsed Books
Archived Articles

RELATIONSHIP TOOLS
How to Stop Reacting
Ending Cycle of Conflict
Listen with Empathy
Don't Be Invalidating
Values and Boundaries
On-Line CBT Program
>> More Tools

MESSAGEBOARD GENERAL
Membership Eligibility
Messageboard Guidelines
Directory
Suicidal Ideation
Domestic Violence
ABOUT US
Mission
Policy and Disclaimers
Professional Endorsements
Wikipedia
Facebook

BPDFamily.org

Your Account
Settings

Moderation Appeal
Become a Sponsor
Sponsorship Account


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2019, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!