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Author Topic: I think she has just started taking drugs  (Read 1028 times)
heronbird
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« on: November 22, 2011, 02:43:28 PM »

My BPDD17 has been going through a rough period, I noticed about 10 days ago she seemed to be different, managing her behaviour in different ways, feeling sad then popping out for 10 mins then feeling happier after that. Then I got a call from a worried friend of hers saying that she has been taking drugs and phoning her saying she is high and addicted now, apparantly to methodone. Or it may be meow meow if you know what that is.

I really think she is taking stuff regularly, dont know what to do.

I told her P. They are going to talk to her and maybe be able to do a drug test.

I did confront my D, she laughed at me and said I cant believe you think Im taking that. I didnt tell her I got info from a friend because the friend asked me not to. My D is a good actress/liar. She was so convincing smiling at me saying oh I cant believe you really think that, thats so funny, she offered to do a drug test. I may take her up on that. Just dont know what to do.

Worried that if she cant pay for the drugs, drug dealers may come to my door and cause trouble.

this is so hard, would appreceiate any help or advice
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« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2011, 10:19:25 AM »

My advice... .get your boundaries in place and stick to them.
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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2011, 03:02:04 PM »

My god I really feel for you apart from alcohol my d17 has done nothing else, that I know of ?. I would make her take the test so you know what you are dealing with. But be prepared for a positve result and what you will do. good luck and keep us posted    

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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2011, 03:18:13 PM »

"P" means "psychiatrist"?

My stepson is 34.  I don't think he has BPD but he has some issues... .

His biological father left when he was 1.  His mom has BPD.  She treated him great sometimes, very badly other times, and ignored him a lot.  She hit him at least once, when he was 7, so hard his nose bled.  They moved a lot, so he had no long-term friends and rarely saw other family members.

He began drinking at 12 and wasn't sober for more than 15 years.  Meth in high school, and other stuff.

I married his mom when he was 18 but I was clueless.  Over the years I knew something was wrong but I didn't know what to do.

At 27 he called and asked for help.  He said he had to get clean or he would die - literally.  He came to live with us - I was still married to his mom - and got off drugs but began to drink more, and got DUIs.  4 months in prison, and swore he would never drink again.  Relapsed 2 days after he got out, and went back to jail, then rehab.  Did OK for awhile, then relapsed again, jail, and rehab again.  Six months in rehab each time - a great place that helped him a lot.

Now he's in prison, but clean and sober more than 3 years, and a great young man who I am very proud of.  Great to my younger kids and to me too, but his life has been badly damaged by alcohol and other drugs.

My suggestion would be, act fast.  Learn what you can.  Talk to people in your community to find out about available treatment - might be local or maybe not.  Consider residential treatment - more expensive but probably more effective.  Some places are 30 days - probably not powerful enough.  Some places are much longer and that is probably better, because they can not just interrupt the drug use, but also, with more time, they can peel back the layers of the onion to understand the problem underneath - what is driving your daughter to want to use drugs.

It will be best if your daughter agrees, but in the US, since she is a minor, if you decide it's best you can probably make that decision, and explain it to her, but not let her choose.  An "intervention" - maybe not like on TV, but you are intervening - interrupting the process and making a change.

If you decide to do that, make all the arrangements - figure out where she will go, and make a reservation there, and arrange for payment - some places take Visa - before you tell your daughter.  So when you tell her, it's not "I want you to go to rehab in three weeks." it's "I am taking you to this place today and you will stay there for three months, and then we'll see how you are doing."

Find out if you can visit, write letters, etc. and tell her clearly that you are not abandoning her - this is not a punishment - you will stay in touch as much as the staff recommends (they may say, no letters or visits for 30 days, for example, and you need to follow those rules).  This is a gift you are giving her because you care about her and you have determined this is what she needs.

I wish very much I had done this when my stepson was 17, but I didn't understand it like you do.

If she denies, you can probably get her tested - find out fast - but you need to act on your own beliefs and not on her denials.  Addicts lie.  The good news is, it is much, much easier for drug use to be interrupted after only a short time.  If you don't act, then she will turn 18 and you will lose control, and after some time it will be much harder for her to get clean and stay clean.

Best wishes and please let us know how it goes... .

And... .one more thought... .about you, not your daughter... .

This is an incredibly stressful and difficult thing for you to deal with.  I was very depressed for a long time because of my son's struggles.  You need to take good care of yourself - counseling, regular sleep, regular cardiovascular exercise, lots of talking openly with people you trust.  Maybe Al-Anon - it helped me a lot.  Don't wait til you are very low - get support now so you will be OK.  OK?

Best wishes,

Matt
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heronbird
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« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2011, 10:08:01 AM »

Thanks, Yes we live in UK and hospital or rehab is free and available but she would have to ask to go. If she is getting drugs I suspect its called meow meow. Strange name, I googled it and it is very easy to get and not too much money apparantly. She still wont admit it to me. I spoke to her P and while he wouldnt tell me if she has told him, he seemed to think she might be taking something. Well, it is a possibility with BPD isnt it.

My D went to her regular therapist meeting a few weeks ago and asked for stronger medication, because the P only put the medication up a little bit, I think it made my D think that they are not taking her seriously enough. Maybe she thought she would get her own medication.

Well, I told the therapist and they made my D an appointment for today, but she didnt go, they were going to do a hair test and get her to speak to a drug and alchol person there.

We are all scared because if she gets hooked, then thats a whole different thing to deal with, Ive always believed if you go down the road of drug addiction, you might as well say bye to life. :'(

I am trying so hard to look after myself and my marriage because the stress can be hard at times.

We can not make her go to hospital or rehab, it has to be her choice, I dont really matter much, I often get the impression the Psychiatric team think I am just in the way. Im not going anywhere.

I have told my D that I will always be here for her

Thankyou for your advice it is helpful
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« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2011, 11:26:24 AM »

We are all scared because if she gets hooked, then thats a whole different thing to deal with, Ive always believed if you go down the road of drug addiction, you might as well say bye to life. :'(

Let me respond to this, because it's a very key point, and one I've discussed a lot, with other parents in this situation, and with staff member's at my son's rehab - many of them recovering addicts with 10 or 20 or even 30 years clean and sober... .

One of the really hard things we need to learn is that "We don't know."  What I mean by that is, once you realize that your daughter is probably using drugs, from now on - the rest of your life - you will never know what the next day might bring.

Sometimes things are going bad, and you are tempted to think - as your comment above says - "You might as well say bye to life."  But that's not true!  And I know that from my son's experience, and many others I've met and gotten to know - even some who have gone very far down that path - addicted to alcohol, meth, cocaine, heroin -  you name it - their lives torn apart - and yet, with the right treatment, they have come back to have long and good lives.

There are more examples than I could possibly mention - probably even people you know or see every day.  The director of the rehab where my son went - a very successful program which treats hundreds of people every year - is a recovering addict who was in prison, then got into this program, and stayed after treatment as an intern helping out.  After a few years he joined the staff, and now is the director of the place - a professional who is highly respected, with a family and a very good life.

Other examples you can read about - Robert Downey Jr. and Samuel L. Jackson come to mind.  (Of course there are a lot of Hollywood stars who aren't such good examples too!)  President Obama has talked about using drugs when he was young, and I think President Bush is sober now but has acknowledged problems with alcohol when he was younger.

If you meet with people at rehabs, you will see what I'm talking about - treatment isn't a guarantee, but for many, many people it helps, including my son.

The other side of "We don't know" is, when things are going good, that can change overnight too.  It goes both ways - when your daughter is using drugs, you may think her life is over, and when she is doing well - clean and sober for awhile - you may think the problem is gone.  In both cases, you are wrong:  the problem is never gone, she is always ten minutes away from relapse, but when she's using she's also only a day away from sobriety.  And we parents can never know what tomorrow will bring, and we can never control the choices they will make - we can never "fix" them, though we can help and support them, and that can make a big difference.

The sooner and stronger you act, the better.  I think from what you're saying that even though she's only 17 the law there may not let you force her to get help?  I would suggest you double-check that to make sure.  But even if it's true, you still have options.  You can use "moral authority" - you're her parents and you can still tell her, "This is what's best for you so your father and I are taking you to get help."  Team up with all the people she respects - act as one, so she can't go from you to someone else who will let her stay on the wrong path - conspire with all who care about her to make her see that she has only one good choice - get help now.  Present it to her as "This is what is happening and it's a good thing for you.", not a punishment or an argument.  Have it all figured out in advance so there are no small problems that will give her an escape.

Know in advance what choices she has and close all those doors, except the one you want her to go through - rehab.  For example, if she is now living with you,  be prepared to remove that option if she fights:  "How things are now isn't good for you - living with us and using drugs - so that is not an option anymore.  But after you have been through this program we'll be glad to have you home again."  Talk with others to make sure she can't live with them either, til she is clean.

You have to decide what is best for her and be very strong about that.  It will only get harder if you wait, and getting clean and staying clean will be harder after she has been using longer.

And keep in mind that there is only one addiction.  What I mean by that is, if she quits drugs and substitutes alcohol - many addicts, including my son, can do that for awhile - the problem isn't solved - it might even be worse, because alcohol is so available.  She will need to learn what makes her want to "self-medicate" - learn what problems she has that are driving her behavior.  So be prepared to support her in a completely clean and sober life;  for example, if you talk with the rehab staff, they may advise you to have no alcohol in the home and not drink in front of her, after she completes the program.

One last note - something that will almost surely come up - is she addicted already?  My suggestion is, don't go there, because it's a huge distraction.  You might say, "We see you having a problem with alcohol and other drugs." or something like that - staying away from the word "addiction" or "addict" because it's not something you can prove and it doesn't really matter.  Addicts deny it and cover it up.  What counts is, she is making bad choices and doing destructive things - or if she isn't, she should be glad to take a drug test so you will feel better.  Everything else - whether you can prove she is addicted or not - is baloney - don't get sidetracked by it.  Stick to, "We are concerned, and we believe you have a problem, and we're determined to get you the help you need, because we love you."  Just keep going back to that - "This is what is happening" - don't argue.
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« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2011, 05:16:50 AM »

Thanks, good to hear from someone who has been through it, I only have experience with one heroin addict and he ended up killing himself, so sad.

Problem is, my D is refusing to admit she is taking drugs and I cant prove it. We have tried to follow her twice now but both times she was not meeting a drug dealer. All the signs look like she is taking something, and she has told a friend she is addicted but we promised the friend that we would not tell out D who told us.

I am going to find out on Monday if she can be forced to go to rehab. We want her to go to a psychiatric unit at the moment but while she says no, no one can force her to go. Teens seem to have more rights over here than adults. Its all got to be her choice. She is very stubborn and because of the BPD problems in her she is more difficult to handle.
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« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2011, 09:08:36 AM »

You probably have more power than you realize - moral authority and financial resources.

Who else influences her - her father?  The friend you mentioned?  A boyfriend?  Any other adults?  Any mature kids?

Talk with everyone who influences her, and get them to agree that there is a problem and she needs help.  Set aside specifics you don't know for sure, and just agree that she needs help.  Agree that the best thing for her is rehab and that you are all ready to remove other options so that will be her only choice.

You can take the lead by saying, "I'm going to remove from her the option to live with me or get money from me til she completes her program."  Get others to say the same.  This will be hard, because everyone will worry about her being homeless, and that is a real risk - she could choose to be homeless rather than get help (which will tell you a lot!).  You all have to accept that - accept that she may make the wrong choice and you will have to stand by your decisions.

It may help for you and the others who care about her to read about the consequences of using these "party drugs":

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2053289/Meow-meow-drug-kills-young-Briton-week.html

"Party drugs" are also "gateway drugs" - even marijuana - which lead to other stuff.  The key thing to focus on is not which drug she is using - that can change over time.  The key thing is that she is becoming dependent on something to cope with life;  she is struggling to make it through each day without some form of self-medication - something to make her feel differently.  Until that underlying problem is helped, she is likely to continue down this bad path.

Think of it like you are putting her in a room, with several doors, but you're going to lock all the doors except the "rehab" door.  So that's the only door she will be able to go through.  If you leave any other door unlocked - like the "live with Mom" door or the "live with friend" door - she'll go through that one.  So they all have to be locked tight - no other options except rehab or the street.  And not just where she lives - you also have to remove from her the option to spend time with you, and her friends - everyone has to be prepared to say, "I can't be around you til you get help.  It's too hard to see you hurt yourself like this.  But then I'll be glad to have you back in my life."

You need to act as a very strong, unbreakable team with everyone she might lean on.  When you're ready, talk to her together - as many of them as possible all in one room - and make sure you have everything prepared so you can take her right then to rehab.  It has to be "rehab right this moment, or the street".  And the street doesn't mean money from Mom - no money.  She may get very upset and she may leave and you'll worry that she won't come back.  You have to stay firm and let her decide.

If you and everybody else holds firm, she'll probably go to rehab.  If not you'll have to live with that, but you can let her know that when she's ready she can contact you and you'll take her.

I didn't have this same drama, because my son went to rehab directly from jail.  He agreed to go because the other option was more jail time.  To his great credit, and to the credit of the staff and other students there, he got a lot out of it - not just off drugs but he learned a lot about himself and what drove him to drink and use.  It made him a much better person - much more honest and able to cope with life.  My big regret is that I didn't get him to rehab much sooner - it would have been much easier for him and he wouldn't have screwed up his life so much.
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« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2011, 09:16:37 AM »

Thanks, good to hear from someone who has been through it, I only have experience with one heroin addict and he ended up killing himself, so sad.

Problem is, my D is refusing to admit she is taking drugs and I cant prove it. We have tried to follow her twice now but both times she was not meeting a drug dealer. All the signs look like she is taking something, and she has told a friend she is addicted but we promised the friend that we would not tell out D who told us.

I am going to find out on Monday if she can be forced to go to rehab. We want her to go to a psychiatric unit at the moment but while she says no, no one can force her to go. Teens seem to have more rights over here than adults. Its all got to be her choice. She is very stubborn and because of the BPD problems in her she is more difficult to handle.

Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. Please read what Matt is saying. He too is talking boundaries. One way to get there is to stop making excuses. We all reach this point at different times. I hope that you are there soon, before things get worse.

The toughest thing we had to do for our BPD.d was to say, "you can't live with us if you are using drugs". When she was younger a part of our condition of her living at home was that we did random drug testing.
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« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2011, 09:23:27 AM »

Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. Please read what Matt is saying. He too is talking boundaries. One way to get there is to stop making excuses. We all reach this point at different times. I hope that you are there soon, before things get worse.

The toughest thing we had to do for our BPD.d was to say, "you can't live with us if you are using drugs". When she was younger a part of our condition of her living at home was that we did random drug testing.

Yup.  Exactly.

I'm a huge hypocrite, by the way.  For many years I made excuses.  I didn't really know my son was using drugs because I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.  I wasn't approving of it because I had told him drugs were wrong.  Etc.  Etc.  Etc.  All true, but none of my excuses or pretending did him any good, and I wish I hadn't done that.  I wish I had set strong boundaries much sooner, and used what power I had - he was 18 when I married his mom, so he was an "adult" according to the law, but I had moral authority and the power of money - just like you - I could have banded together with his mom, other family, and his friends that I knew, and set that boundary - "No money or access to your family or friends til you get help."  If I knew then what I know now, I might have been able to help him when he was 18 not ten years later, and it would have been much easier, and the price he paid for his drug use would have been much less... .

As Being Mindful says... .boundaries!  And if you can do it together with others - all setting clear boundaries together - that will be very strong - strong enough so she will get help soon I hope!

Best wishes, and please let us know how things are going!
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« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2011, 04:48:19 PM »

What are you saying being mindful?  do you think I should just say she must be taking drugs and try to nip it in the bud.

As for the money side of it, we do not feel that we should take her money away because if she is taking drugs she will be desperate and turn to crime.

I cant give her any boundaries at the moment, i cant throw her out. Im too scared of what will happen to her, I cant loose her. I am thinking about it though.

I need boundaries too, we all do. This is so hard though.

I am going to speak again to the P on Monday and see if I can get help for her. I think I told you that they had set up an appointment for her to see a drug and alchol counsellor but she just didnt turn up. We will try again for Friday.

Actually, I will definitly say she cant live in our home if she is doing drugs, I cant have that in my house and she knows that.

The rehab here is the psyciatric hospital that she has been in many times and she refuses to go there and no one can force her or will force her. She gets a lot of money from the state each month and nothing from me at all. She seems to have some sort of phobia about psychiatric unit for some reason so she goes crazy if I mention that. I will try the idea of saying leave home or go to unit, she will choose to leave home and say she does not care as she has done before, and when she done this before she was mixing with tramps and binge drinking and stole alchol. Eventually ended up on a carpark roof drunk tried to jump and got taken to hospital by police, it was a very distressing time and we nearly lost her.

You have given me a lot of options Matt and I am going to try to do them, I understand where you are coming from and I will talk with her Psychiatric team on Monday , Ill let you know what happens, Thanks
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« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2011, 05:24:20 PM »

These are very, very hard choices for you to make.  I'm glad you're thinking through your options and trying to figure out what's best, not just looking away and hoping for the best.

How are you doing with this - your own stress?  Do you get good support from your family and close friends?
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« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2011, 07:15:21 PM »

Matt, (I'm sorry, Heronbird.  I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I need to know)  How do you know which rehab to direct your loved one to?  I know absolutely nothing about this, but I need to.  I believe my dd30 is taking something or somethings and I know she's drinking while taking prescription medication that warns not to mix with alcohol.  She's had more than one seizure in the past few months and has never had a history of this.  She's withdrawing from all of her family and hanging out with people who are scary.  She is married and her husband is turning a deaf ear to me when I tell him she needs help.  All he can think about at this point is the horrible financial situation they are in because of all she's done in the past few months. Their medical bills are mounting.  How can rehab be paid for?  Do you know if most health insurance policies would pay for this?  I know if I push this with him, that's going to be a major concern.  I don't even know where to begin looking.  I do know because of her age and the fact that she's married, I'm going to have to have his involvment in this.  Anything you could suggest would be most appreciated.  I don't even know where to begin.
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« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2011, 07:37:43 PM »

Matt, (I'm sorry, Heronbird.  I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I need to know)  How do you know which rehab to direct your loved one to?  I know absolutely nothing about this, but I need to.  I believe my dd30 is taking something or somethings and I know she's drinking while taking prescription medication that warns not to mix with alcohol.  She's had more than one seizure in the past few months and has never had a history of this.  She's withdrawing from all of her family and hanging out with people who are scary.  She is married and her husband is turning a deaf ear to me when I tell him she needs help.  All he can think about at this point is the horrible financial situation they are in because of all she's done in the past few months. Their medical bills are mounting.  How can rehab be paid for?  Do you know if most health insurance policies would pay for this?  I know if I push this with him, that's going to be a major concern.  I don't even know where to begin looking.  I do know because of her age and the fact that she's married, I'm going to have to have his involvment in this.  Anything you could suggest would be most appreciated.  I don't even know where to begin.

I'll tell you how I did it, but our situations may be different.

I asked my son's probation officer and he told me several places to check and what he knew about them.  My son was on probation after getting 3 DUIs.  He viewed his PO as his enemy, but the PO - a big, tough Vietnam vet - was always respectful and helpful to me.  The place he said was best was expensive - not fancy but they believe in long-term treatment, not 30 days, so it costs more.  But the PO said his department would help if they could.  (But later they didn't have the money so I had to pay it all.)

I don't really know how to pick the best place, but if you can visit them and understand their methods that may help, and read online to find out how highly they are regarded.  If they have been in business a long time that is a good sign.  I would not choose a fancy place, because that will cost more and may not be better.  The place my son went, the students help with the work, and I think that's a very good thing, both to keep the cost down, and because working is good for us all.  And many staff members were recovering addicts - some with up to 30 years of clean time - who were able to treat my son (and me) as equals - not a doctor/patient relationship, more a mentor relationship - so he was able to see people and admire what they had accomplished, and feel good that he could do the same.

I had one huge advantage - it may not sound like an advantage but it was - my son was in jail and he had the choice of more time in jail or going direct to rehab - not even one night at home - and the PO and I were on the same sheet of music, so the judge was glad to give my son that chance.  Going direct from jail means rehab is paradise - working outdoors or helping in the kitchen a few hours a day isn't bad at all - and he had a very strong motivation to stay there and sober - if he left or relapsed he could go back to prison.

The staff always said that it's harder when a young person comes from home to rehab - no jail - because they feel like they can leave any time.  They're not always committed to getting clean and staying clean.  (Even if someone is very committed, it's still hard, so if they're iffy about it, their chance of success is much lower.)

One concept they talk about in rehab and 12-step programs is "rock bottom".  When you have hit your rock bottom - sunk as low as you can - then you will be ready to change - to get clean and stay clean.  The problem is, everybody's rock bottom is different.  As an example, my son first went to prison in 2006, for four months, for DUI.  It was a very, very bad experience, and he swore he would never drink again, and I'm sure he meant it.  He lasted 48 hours - drank again - failed a breathalyzer test a few days later - back to jail.  A very intelligent young man - nobody could be that dumb - but he hadn't hit his rock bottom - hadn't sunk low enough to motivate him strongly enough.  His issues run very deep, from his childhood, and he had been drinking and using since he was 12, so it took more than four months in prison to make him change.

I'm mentioning this, because for both of you guys - Justwanted and Heronbird - this is a very hard part of this subject.  When I was where you both are, I wanted my son to clean and sober very badly - maybe more than he wanted it himself - but I couldn't do it for him - he had to do it and he wasn't ready to do it, as insane as that looked to me.  I had to let him know that when he was ready, I would help him - by helping him get the help he needed - but til then he was on his own - no money from me, no living with us, just sharing dinner when he was sober - and to his credit he never came to our house drunk or high - he was always welcome to come, but not to stay, til he got clean.

What I'm saying is, it's very likely, for both of you, that your daughters are not ready to make the choice you want them to make.  That's why BeingMindful mentioned boundaries - because boundaries aren't just helpful to the other party, they're essential for you too - to keep your life from spinning out of control.

In the US, every city and big town has at least one chapter of Al-Anon - for those of us who have an alcoholic or addict in our lives.  My first meeting was very, very hard for me, but very helpful.  The others there - people I had never met - understood what I was going through better than anybody else, except people I met through my son's rehab.  It's a great way to learn how to keep your own head above water, and stay healthy yourself, while you do what you can - often just waiting - for your daughter to be ready to change.
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justwantedafamily

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« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2011, 08:52:46 PM »

Thank you, for all the information, Matt.  The waiting for her to hit rock-bottom is agonizing and frightening.  I'm very afraid she might not recover from what she is capable of doing to herself.  I don't feel like I have any kind of connection with her anymore.  My dh and I have an appointment with a therapist to try to figure out what we can and cannot do, since she's an adult. I think we should start looking at different rehabs.  Maybe even visting them.  This is so foreign to me!  (but what parent ever expects this to be their reality?)

I've always found it difficult to talk to others about my problems, but I do think I'm to the point where Al Anon is my next step.  Thank you for all your suggestions. 
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Matt
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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2011, 09:12:49 PM »

Thank you, for all the information, Matt.  The waiting for her to hit rock-bottom is agonizing and frightening.  I'm very afraid she might not recover from what she is capable of doing to herself.  I don't feel like I have any kind of connection with her anymore.  My dh and I have an appointment with a therapist to try to figure out what we can and cannot do, since she's an adult. I think we should start looking at different rehabs.  Maybe even visting them.  This is so foreign to me!  (but what parent ever expects this to be their reality?)

I've always found it difficult to talk to others about my problems, but I do think I'm to the point where Al Anon is my next step.  Thank you for all your suggestions. 

In most cities, there are several chapters of Al-Anon, and they have different "flavors" - some are all men, or all women, or some bring guest speakers, and others it's just the members talking.  You can check out any of them and pick one that you like, or go to more than one.  I found an all-men group that worked well for me - not sure why, but a big part of it for me was saying some things out loud that were really hard, and it bothered me less to break down among men than it would have among a mixed group - but that's just me.  Whatever group you can find that feels right... .

As strange as it might sound, I think it's good and healthy that you are recognizing some of the things that can happen, like "what she is capable of doing to herself".  Those are real possibilities - not to spend your life worrying about all the bad things that can happen, but getting it out in the open and talking about it, with your family, or here, or at Al-Anon, is probably important to do.

I also found a good counselor who had some experience with this stuff - it's more common than we realize because not everybody who goes through what you're going through talks about it - and my counselor was able to help me in a lot of common-sense ways, like managing stress (exercise, regular sleep - practical stuff like that).  What you're going through is probably a marathon not a sprint - it may seem like a big drama right now but it probably won't be over soon - even if your daughter goes to rehab, that won't "cure" her, she will still struggle and probably relapse a number of times, and each time it will be hard for you.  So having support from your family and close friends, and a counselor, and peers like here and Al-Anon, will all help you I think (or at least they helped me).

My first Al-Anon meeting, I planned to say nothing, just listen.  After a few minutes, one of the guys there interrupted whoever was talking and said, "Matt, I think you need to talk.  Can you tell us how you're doing?"  My son had just relapsed, and I didn't know which way he was going, and I hadn't slept in a couple of days, so it probably didn't take Sherlock Holmes to look at me and figure out I wasn't doing well.  That guy was helping me by asking me to talk.  I started to talk, but after just a few words I completely broke down, and couldn't say anything more.  I didn't know anybody there, but they had all been through it themselves, and knew exactly where I was, and they were able to understand completely and make me feel their care.  I really needed that, and could only get it with people who truly understood what I was going through.  I've said many times since then, whatever you think about 12-steppers, if you ever doubt for a moment that there are good people in the world, go to an Al-Anon meeting and you won't doubt that anymore.
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« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2011, 03:49:29 AM »

justwantedafamily, Thankyou for joining in, I havent had time to read everything but I thought your last message was one I wrote, you are in a very similar situation to me but my BPD is 17 and unmarried. Withdrawing from family and good friends, hanging round with not so good ones, drinking whilst on medication that you are not supposed to drink with.

I have to go out now but will have a good read properly when I get back
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Being Mindful
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« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2011, 09:18:39 AM »

Dear Heron and Just Wanted,

These are very difficult and serious situations. Even on a good day, our BPD.d19 worries us as to whether she is well, safe, not harming herself, using drugs or getting into some kind of trouble. Through the years her behaviors have escalated to the point of serious safety and life threatening situations. She has been involved with a pimp/drug dealer who physically abused her and found it "entertaining to hold a knife to her throat". She's been on the streets, living in a car in winter, been sexually abused a couple of times, been in residential care for 22 months, she's been suicidal multiple, multiple times and has used drugs on and off for a few years. She's been hospitalized many times but twice in the last 6 months for drugs. This is just the highlights.

Our change started when we realized that her harming herself could no longer harm the rest of the family. We and our nonBPDd.13 were at risk in our home because of the behaviors of our BPDd. She had created serious safety issues for herself and the rest of us. We also realized that our excuses were not allowing our d to get the help she needs and it was doing nothing for our well-being either. Frequently, we'd excuse the behavior on her being mentally ill. And, while that is a true statement, excuses do nothing in helping her to get better. In the past, we thought we had boundaries, but the reality was we really didn't. With her behaviors escalating and coming more frquently, we knew we had to change.

Our first change was accepting that we cannot fix her. Wellness needs to come from her, we can only facilitate. OUr next step was drastic and firm boundaries which meant we needed to accept that putting our boundaries in place might mean that more bad things will happen. Another step, was not allowing her behaviors or illness to hold us hostage. Also, we did a ton of reading and working with our therapist and really put what we were learning into action. No more just talking about it.

The reality is doing these things is playing with life and death, right? The cause and effect and the what ifs that play in our minds was and is horrible. This is not easy stuff. However, we are convinced that it is necessary for our BPDd and for ourselves. In order for her to take steps towards her well-being, own her life and own her outcomes, and own her solutions, we couldn't keep doing what we were doing. Not a day or night goes by that by that at some point I am consumed with worry. Some days are easier than others.

In the end, our toughest boundary that we put in place and had to enforce was no drugs in our home, and if she was using, she could not live at home. Thus, she has not lived at home since October 30. We faciliated a move to an apartment and helped her land safely. We did not take ownership of this move, only supporting it where she asked for help or based on disability could not do some steps on her own. Within a week, she was at risk again. We have not rescued her and she is having to work through bumping up against the decisions she makes and the boundaries that we have put into place. It is difficult for sure.

In the end Heron, I see that you are at a place that I was once at, although I hadn't yet found this website. I hope and pray that you can reach a point of not making excuses, not being held hostage by your d. and that you can figure out boundaries for yourself.

Before I end, I want to say that Matt is right that you have more power with your daughter than what you think. I believe you have the knowledge that you need and that right now you are stuck in the place of being a hostage to your d and the illness. I hope you can free yourself and create boundaries that will not only help you but help your daughter.

Being Mindful... .
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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2015, 05:47:15 PM »

"As for the money side of it, we do not feel that we should take her money away because if she is taking drugs she will be desperate and turn to crime.

I cant give her any boundaries at the moment, i cant throw her out. Im too scared of what will happen to her, I cant loose her. I am thinking about it though."

My BPDD26 is at this moment sitting in jail. I had to convince my dad to stop giving her money. I had to stop allowing her access to my house. It was extremely hard on us and hurt like hell, but we had to take the drastic measures. She had been going down the drug road for almost 10 years. My dad and I were enabling her. She would lie to our faces all the time. She would even call and say she had to get into rehab right this moment and by the time I would get to her she would be off with her drug friends. My point is, you will lose her if you enable her. You need to set the boundaries, confront her, and stand strong. Tell her you know she is doing the drugs and that you will not have her in the house unless she gets help. It hurts but it is better then 10 years from now watching her not only spiral so far down, but also take down her three children.
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