BPD and Lack Of Empathy For Us "Nons" Questions. Food For Thought

[Depression = 72% of members]

Well the NC thing is working quite well and i am nowhere near where i was after the day my exbodgf cheated and dumped me (or liberated me).  

I stayed true to NC, and it works miracles. Most things are going well. I have been encouraged to post thoughts and questions in order to also help others who are having struggles with post survival issues from their pwBPD breakup. So here are a couple of questions for thought and feedback.

Many BPD disordered people lack empathy. In my case, never a single apology for cheating and I have only received a single text after she left me for her new target and moved in with him a week later. My situation was a tad more traumatic in that I was diagnosed with an illness,and she didnt seem to care at all. If somebody you were with over 5 years was given a diagnosis, you would think that your ex, regardless of BPD, would reach out with some status update request or even call/text etc.

QUESTION: Why do people with BPD show empathy towards non intimate people, but none to their partners?

Question: Do BPD lack sympathy or empathy or both?

Question: Do Bi-polar people self harm, vs BPD people?

Question: What would make a new target knowing this BPD person has an STD, jump in with wreckless abandon? In my case, her new target is quite older, divorced, short, fat no job, and fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. (just kidding, I aint no prize either). Are many new targets just as desperate as the pwBPD?

QUESTION: What is the average success rate of rebounds for BPD, or even non rebound relationships w/o therapy? I personally would prefer my ex to get T, and overcome this affliction and live along happy life.

QUESTION: NC works on your own recovery, but some many people give advice to get their ex back WITH NC. In my opinion, NC doesn't work this way with people with severe BPD. Thoughts?

QUESTION: Do you feel that coming to these boards and forums is a form of breaking NC, because it keeps many ruminating about their ex and their split? Remember, NC is to heal, but it would seem that some of these breakup forums become addicting, then it keeps your ex always at the forefront of your mind. I personally feel halfway healed coming here, but am so sick and tired of being sick and tired of thinking about my ex, BUT, I want to help others if possible. Thoughts?

QUESTION: Do you feel more educated about BPD, and will this play a role in your future decisions on partners and how? 

FINAL QUESTION: Is it easier knowing that you were involved with an IMPOSTER, the entire relationship and you now feel you are mourning the dream of this ghost with a BPD host. Personally I fell for the image of what was painted in my head, and now understand that this would have been a life altering decision had I married her. in fact, the movie "MISERY" or "WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO BABY JANE" comes to mind as far as depending on my ex with supporting me thru my illness.  I have never gained a taste for yard bird, and am quite certain being hobbled wouldn't endear me to my BPDgf/wife anymore than her charming sense of  entitlement.

[cheaptrick]

Well the NC thing is working quite well and i am nowhere near where i was after the day my exbodgf cheated and dumped me (or liberated me).  

I stayed true to NC, and it works miracles. Most things are going well. I have been encouraged to post thoughts and questions in order to also help others who are having struggles with post survival issues from their pwBPD breakup. So here are a couple of questions for thought and feedback.

Many BPD disordered people lack empathy. In my case, never a single apology for cheating and I have only received a single text after she left me for her new target and moved in with him a week later. My situation was a tad more traumatic in that I was diagnosed with an illness,and she didnt seem to care at all. If somebody you were with over 5 years was given a diagnosis, you would think that your ex, regardless of BPD, would reach out with some status update request or even call/text etc.

QUESTION: Why do people with BPD show empathy towards non intimate people, but none to their partners?

Question: Do BPD lack sympathy or empathy or both?

Question: Do Bi-polar people self harm, vs BPD people?

Question: What would make a new target knowing this BPD person has an STD, jump in with wreckless abandon? In my case, her new target is quite older, divorced, short, fat no job, and fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. (just kidding, I aint no prize either). Are many new targets just as desperate as the pwBPD?

QUESTION: What is the average success rate of rebounds for BPD, or even non rebound relationships w/o therapy? I personally would prefer my ex to get T, and overcome this affliction and live along happy life.

QUESTION: NC works on your own recovery, but some many people give advice to get their ex back WITH NC. In my opinion, NC doesn't work this way with people with severe BPD. Thoughts?

QUESTION: Do you feel that coming to these boards and forums is a form of breaking NC, because it keeps many ruminating about their ex and their split? Remember, NC is to heal, but it would seem that some of these breakup forums become addicting, then it keeps your ex always at the forefront of your mind. I personally feel halfway healed coming here, but am so sick and tired of being sick and tired of thinking about my ex, BUT, I want to help others if possible. Thoughts?

QUESTION: Do you feel more educated about BPD, and will this play a role in your future decisions on partners and how? 

FINAL QUESTION: Is it easier knowing that you were involved with an IMPOSTER, the entire relationship and you now feel you are mourning the dream of this ghost with a BPD host. Personally I fell for the image of what was painted in my head, and now understand that this would have been a life altering decision had I married her. in fact, the movie "MISERY" or "WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO BABY JANE" comes to mind as far as depending on my ex with supporting me thru my illness.  I have never gained a taste for yard bird, and am quite certain being hobbled wouldn't endear me to my BPDgf/wife anymore than her charming sense of  entitlement.

[LightAtTheEndOfTheTunnel]

 Hi! Great questions and food for thought Harvej 

Regarding the empathy the strangers as opposed to their partners.

My first one on one interaction with my ex BPD was one where he saw i was upset (we met as housemates) in the kitchen and he came over and gave me a hug.

A total stranger at a time and admittedly this took me aback initially also.

Fast forward to the end of our two year dysfunctional dance, the sight of me on the floor in tears begging him to talk to me... .i could never get my head round him being the "same" man. I would even ask him how could this be? Knowing how we first met and our first interaction?

However now knowing the "disorder" it makes total sense.

Will be keeping an eye on this thread, thank you!

[colt81522]

The Empathy for Strangers part caught my attention.

I think it even goes way beyond empathy. My BPDgf is a totally different person outside of our relationship. She is gregarious and makes friends easily in whatever setting she finds herself. She has dozens of such "friends" who she constantly texts, calls, and emails. She buys presents for her closest friends or does other thoughtful things for them. This Christmas she even gave a present to the man I suspect she is having an EA with - (by now it has probably gone beyond an EA, though). I got nothing. Haven't in quite some time. She got a present from me and actually had the bal*s to recycle the ribbon to use for her new bf's present!

It is the "false-self" we hear so much about. Only myself and to a lesser degree her sister have seen her true self - the labile, raging, crying, punitive, scared, 46 year old adult-child I live with.

[MuGGzy]

In my experience... .

QUESTION: Why do people with BPD show empathy towards non intimate people, but none to their partners?

they don't actually FEEL the empathy, they like the reaction they get from showing the empathy publicly and maintaining their public persona. They want people to see/hear/read their comments and say/think "Aww she/he is so sweet, what a kind thing to do". They will very rarely do these things privately, like they are more likely to show up at the house of a sick friend with a bunch of balloons when they know others are there, then send a simple private text message to that same person expressing concern or well wishes.

Question: Do BPD lack sympathy or empathy or both?

Some of each? ASPD/NPD/BPD all share the lack of guilt, conscience, empathy, almost like their wiring simply will not allow them to imagine what their victims feel or think, it is all about THEM all the time.

Question: Do Bi-polar people self harm, vs BPD people?

Bi-Polar is more about cycles of mania and depression, so in general terms a depressed person is more likely to harm themselves. A BPD/NPD usually feels to highly about themselves to ever actually hurt themselves, although they might SAY they will or even do it in a minor sense (like taking enough pills to get sick but not enough to kill them and make SURE someone is set to "rescue" them) to get attention and sympathy for THEM.

Question: What would make a new target *clipped* jump in with wreckless abandon?

They are good at picking needy victims. Mine trolls the Internet dating sights which are rife with sad desperate men willing to believe a woman likes them and let her take advantage of him if it means not being alone for a while. You will NEVER see two BPDs together for instance, there has to be a predator/prey balance or it doesn't work for them.

QUESTION: What is the average success rate of rebounds for BPD, or even non rebound relationships w/o therapy?

Almost NEVER, it requires them seeing, admitting, and getting help for something WRONG with them. The Narcissistic part of them will almost never let them admit that there is anything WRONG with them, it's just to incongruent with their self image for them to allow. They have to believe they are perfect/good and anyone that says otherwise is less so than them. They usually bounce from one short term rs to the next until they find a real ripe sucker that will endure/accept them for an extended period of time, usually someone wealthy and very co-dependent, a very low self esteem helps too.

QUESTION: NC works on your own recovery, but some many people give advice to get their ex back WITH NC. In my opinion, NC doesn't work this way with people with severe BPD. Thoughts?

NC always works for the "victim" one way or another. The BPD will either get bored and lose interest when they are getting ZERO stimulus or validation back and move on to a new victim. Or the BPD will escalate to a point where it becomes illegal and they will enter the legal system and continue violating harassement and restraining orders until they are put in jail.

QUESTION: Do you feel that coming to these boards and forums is a form of breaking NC, because it keeps many ruminating about their ex and their split? Remember, NC is to heal, but it would seem that some of these breakup forums become addicting, then it keeps your ex always at the forefront of your mind. I personally feel halfway healed coming here, but am so sick and tired of being sick and tired of thinking about my ex, BUT, I want to help others if possible. Thoughts?

I don't come back unless something new has come up and then I stick around for a few weeks contributing to others, I guess as a small way to "give back" to others that are going through the same stuff. However, I agree that after a while I have to drop back off and not even visit these boards because it just opens some of the same wounds that breaking NC does, for me it's better to forget the entire "BPD Thing" for as long as my Ex will allow me.


QUESTION: Do you feel more educated about BPD, and will this play a role in your future decisions on partners and how? 

Absolutely, when I began dating and started a rs with a new woman I was massively gun-shy and worried about seeing imaginary  |> etc, the others here helped allot to validate what was legit concern and what was "fleas" left from the ex, I know I will never just "overlook" real  |> again. Something to watch out for POST BPD, is that you can begin to see BPD EVERYWHERE.

FINAL QUESTION: Is it easier knowing that you were involved with an IMPOSTER, the entire relationship and you now feel you are mourning the dream of this ghost with a BPD host.

Yes, I guess. More than anything it is natural for SANE people to need to understand what they are dealing with, it makes you CRAZY trying to understand how someone that says they love you can do what these people do, it is normal to need to understand HOW/WHY they are able to do it. I guess I was lucky that mine spiralled down so far and did such outrageous things that I simply could not deny,justify,rationalize, or overlook her offenses anymore.

[truly amazed]

Howdy,

great points and questions ...

QUESTION: Do you feel more educated about BPD, and will this play a role in your future decisions on partners and how?

Yes YES and hell yes lots of boundaries and deal breakers

NC works on your own recovery, but some many people give advice to get their ex back WITH NC. In my opinion, NC doesn't work this way with people with severe BPD. Thoughts?

NC is about YOU ... .not about your ex. It is about healing you and not about some silly game. My ex and many with BPD NC of one week is like one year for them and when you see them again its as though they don't know you or care. My ex a 8-9 out of 9 BPD this was from my T ... .in every breach on NC intiated by her post breakup and yes I fell for it for a while ... .too long ... .every time it would be a cry out in need ... .her needs ... .me being painted white and then totally black.

NC ... .for me ... .my ex and not being bitter doesn't even meet the standards for being a friend ... .and some people who dislike me treat me far better !

What is the average success rate of rebounds for BPD, or even non rebound relationships w/o therapy?

High functioning but severe BPD cases ... .chances are zero. if they are serial cheaters again Zero ... .its just pain. My T said in the case of my ex about 3-6 months in an institution and then drugs and treatment for about 5 years and even then he was not sure she could change.

QUESTION: Do you feel that coming to these boards and forums is a form of breaking NC, because it keeps many ruminating about their ex and their split? Remember, NC is to heal, but it would seem that some of these breakup forums become addicting, then it keeps your ex always at the forefront of your mind. I personally feel halfway healed coming here, but am so sick and tired of being sick and tired of thinking about my ex, BUT, I want to help others if possible. Thoughts?

Very true ... .for 2012 ... .I must limit myself ... .one hand I want to help others as I know how awful it was for me ... .and growing up with a mother likely BPD ... .but on the other hand it re hashes old wounds opening  and sharing .

My problem post RS was ruminating and caused by constant breaches of NC on her part ... .not me ... .

In the end despite being 95% healed and with a new partner who is everything my ex wasn't ... .being with a BPD person created some serious baggage on my part which i never had before. Nothing bad and have used it to grow but the scars are just as bad as some I have from operations all be it not visable to others.

FINAL QUESTION: Is it easier knowing that you were involved with an IMPOSTER, the entire relationship and you now feel you are mourning the dream of this ghost with a BPD host. Personally I fell for the image of what was painted in my head, and now understand that this would have been a life altering decision had I married her. in fact, the movie "MISERY" or "WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO BABY JANE" comes to mind as far as depending on my ex with supporting me thru my illness.  I have never gained a taste for yard bird, and am quite certain being hobbled wouldn't endear me to my BPDgf/wife anymore than her charming sense of  entitlement.

Yes I now know the person she displayed to me was mirroring or a fabrication of outright lies or ommisions of her past ... .fiction ... .and still fell for it. Like the mermaid ... .   who lures you to your death. SEX SEX SEX

Entitlement ... .is exactly it ... .it was and is always about them ... .their needs ... .she is allowed to do what she does because you made her do it ! I made her get drunk abuse me ... .and do it over and over again ... .she cheated and was justified with me and previous two husbands because they didn't do exactly what she wanted ... .not sure how she worked this one out in her mind ... .in the end dont care ... .

really dont care. BPD is an illness and made a mistake which the bill was called for in 2011. I paid it and have grown !

Looking forward to my new life with my new partner and what I have now right now is a life without turmoil ... .abuse ... .pain ... .and all the rest. Comparing it going back 12 months to walking on eggshells and this very night last year being abused as she got drunk and then 3 further times in the following two week s... .yuk.

Makes me sad I stayed ... .

anyhow happy new year    

[Rose1]

QUESTION: Why do people with BPD show empathy towards non intimate people, but none to their partners?

Not sure it's true empathy - my exBPDh prided himself on his empathy but I think it was more about putting on a mask or getting something he wanted

Question: Do BPD lack sympathy or empathy or both? I don't think they lack it - I think that most of their life revolves around themselves and they treat people badly or well depending on what they want at any given time. I also think they know they treat people badly but justify it in their own mind - sneaky feeling that this is one of the reasons they act out, because they feel guilty about their treatment of others

Question: Do Bi-polar people self harm, vs BPD people?I was told by his doctor that statistically 20% of bi polar commit suicide - this would depend on medication. Self harm comes in many forms, alcoholism, drug abuse, eating disorders, risky sexual behaviour etc - bi polar sufferers can do all of this at times

Question: What would make a new target knowing this BPD person has an STD, jump in with wreckless abandon? In my case, her new target is quite older, divorced, short, fat no job, and fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. (just kidding, I aint no prize either). Are many new targets just as desperate as the pwBPD?

QUESTION: What is the average success rate of rebounds for BPD, or even non rebound relationships w/o therapy? I personally would prefer my ex to get T, and overcome this affliction and live along happy life. This one is up to them - one of the most difficult things to learn is that we can't make people do things that are good for them. Untreated BPD rebounds are really recycles and unless real long term effort is made to treat the condition things will slowly progress down the path of BPD - as they get older my experience has been that this gets worse

QUESTION: NC works on your own recovery, but some many people give advice to get their ex back WITH NC. In my opinion, NC doesn't work this way with people with severe BPD. Thoughts? NC is for your own healing, not for recycling a relationship. It may get a BPD to temporarily stop their behaviour but refer above - healing is long term and requires the BPD to be committed to the process

QUESTION: Do you feel that coming to these boards and forums is a form of breaking NC, because it keeps many ruminating about their ex and their split? Remember, NC is to heal, but it would seem that some of these breakup forums become addicting, then it keeps your ex always at the forefront of your mind. I personally feel halfway healed coming here, but am so sick and tired of being sick and tired of thinking about my ex, BUT, I want to help others if possible. Thoughts? No - it might continue some of the addiction to drama we all seem to have. However the end goal is to learn to deal with our fleas and gain some insight into why we allowed ourselves to remain in such an unhealthy relationship, and to learn how to cope with day to day issues. Each person is different and we also need to have goals about self improvement - this can take a long time and a support group is good because it allows us to see the issues more clearly

QUESTION: Do you feel more educated about BPD, and will this play a role in your future decisions on partners and how? Absolutely - it did. I am now married to a non who understands the condition and who doesn't think that abusing someone because they see kindness as a sign of weakness is acceptable. It helped me sort out a lot of personal issues that were part of the reason I allowed myself to be abused and also best of all, how to bring my kids up so they can deal with BPD

FINAL QUESTION: Is it easier knowing that you were involved with an IMPOSTER, the entire relationship and you now feel you are mourning the dream of this ghost with a BPD host. Personally I fell for the image of what was painted in my head, and now understand that this would have been a life altering decision had I married her. in fact, the movie "MISERY" or "WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO BABY JANE" comes to mind as far as depending on my ex with supporting me thru my illness.  I have never gained a taste for yard bird, and am quite certain being hobbled wouldn't endear me to my BPDgf/wife anymore than her charming sense of  entitlement.

maybe - for me it was validating to find out that this was not me, that the behaviour was common

[Changingman]

FINAL QUESTION: Is it easier knowing that you were involved with an IMPOSTER, the entire relationship and you now feel you are mourning the dream of this ghost with a BPD host. Personally I fell for the image of what was painted in my head, and now understand that this would have been a life altering decision had I married her. in fact, the movie "MISERY" or "WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO BABY JANE" comes to mind as far as depending on my ex with supporting me thru my illness.  I have never gained a taste for yard bird, and am quite certain being hobbled wouldn't endear me to my BPDgf/wife anymore than her charming sense of  entitlement.



This was the most important thing for me, to realise it was all illusionary, a deceit, it has made me question all the other illusions in my life.

She is hollow, really hollow and her mental state is all there is to her.

[redkong]

FINAL QUESTION: Is it easier knowing that you were involved with an IMPOSTER, the entire relationship and you now feel you are mourning the dream of this ghost with a BPD host. Personally I fell for the image of what was painted in my head, and now understand that this would have been a life altering decision had I married her. in fact, the movie "MISERY" or "WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO BABY JANE" comes to mind as far as depending on my ex with supporting me thru my illness.  I have never gained a taste for yard bird, and am quite certain being hobbled wouldn't endear me to my BPDgf/wife anymore than her charming sense of  entitlement.



This was the most important thing for me, to realise it was all illusionary, a deceit, it has made me question all the other illusions in my life.

She is hollow, really hollow and her mental state is all there is to her.

Changingman, I agree.  I recently decided to leave my volatile relationship with ex uBPDgf, and in my moments of second-guessing my decision, one of my wisest friends reminds me that much of what I miss was really all a mirage.  She's totally right of course - I miss the false person I thought I was getting,  I don't miss the reality of how things actually were in the relationship.  It's mind-bending though, and definitely hard to stay grounded in reality when the mirage was so enticing.

[Traumatized]

FINAL QUESTION: Is it easier knowing that you were involved with an IMPOSTER, the entire relationship and you now feel you are mourning the dream of this ghost with a BPD host.

The "Ghost Host" comparison to BPD people instantly reminded me of the Disneyland Haunted Mansion ride.  Here's a few excerpts from the script that could possibly relate:

Beginning of ride

Ghost Host:  Welcome, foolish mortals, to the Haunted Mansion! I am your host, your ghost host. Kindly step all the way in please and make room for everyone. There's no turning back now.

Our tour begins here in this gallery where you see paintings of some of our guests as they appeared in their corruptible, mortal state.

Your cadaverous pallor betrays an aura of foreboding, almost as though you sense a disquieting metamorphosis. Is this haunted room actually stretching? Or is it your imagination, hmm?  And consider this dismaying observation: This chamber has no windows and no doors, which offers you this chilling challenge: to find a way out!

Of course, there's always my way.  (He Hangs himself)

Ending part of the ride

Ah, there you are, and just in time! There's a little matter I forgot to mention.  Beware of hitchhiking ghosts! They have selected you to fill our quota, and they'll haunt you until you return! Now I will raise the safety bar, and a ghost will follow you home!

[maxen]

My BPDgf is a totally different person outside of our relationship. She is gregarious and makes friends easily in whatever setting she finds herself. She has dozens of such "friends" who she constantly texts, calls, and emails. She buys presents for her closest friends or does other thoughtful things for them. ... .

It is the "false-self" we hear so much about. Only myself and to a lesser degree her sister have seen her true self - the labile, raging, crying, punitive, scared, 46 year old adult-child I live with.

i could have written every word of that, even the '46 year old', which is how old my stbxw was when that post was posted.

in tears begging him to talk to me... .i could never get my head round him being the "same" man. I would even ask him how could this be?

i could have written that too. non-communication is her specialty.

[petridish]

I agree with Rose1 about the empathy. I don't think it's a lack of it so much as such a high focus on self (coming out of this lifelong fear/guarded state) that there isn't emotional room to really allow themselves to imagine how others feel. I also think that often they are ashamed of how they treat people, which adds to the reluctance to build their "empathy" muscle because it would reveal the depths of their bad behavior, which would then "prove" that they are "bad" as they fear (since they are binary thinkers about people, including themselves, I think).

My pwuBPD is my mother, so I've gone at it different ways over the decades. For a long time I thought her trouble empathizing with me stemmed from me not communicating things in the "right" way, so I would try and try and try (yes, an eternal optimist). What I've noticed in my attempts is that she CAN express empathy (though she also is quite high functioning) but it takes quite a bit of time. I have to validate her, I have to stay positive and not get frustrated with her, I have to go slowly and make sure that she is first heard. I have to make it clear there is no blame going on. Then, as she feels safe, she will let some of those very high defensive walls down enough to come out and imagine the scenario I am explaining.

Of course, her willingness to engage in this kind of exercise is impacted by how stressed/volatile she is, which is difficult to predict (as you all know!). When it's been successful, she's been very appreciative (I often am helping her see that people aren't out to hurt her), but I would say the time investment is often solid hours where I am really having to focus on modulating my own emotions, staying present, and presenting things carefully. I think it could be less time, except it's a bit like communicating with someone on another planet where the signal rarely goes through -- when I can reach her (and have the time/patience/energy to do so), I want to get as much of this message through as I can.

Like some of the other's pwBPD mentioned in this thread, she is very good at making complete strangers or partial acquaintances feel heard and cared about. It is going deeper than this that is very difficult/frightening for her.

[Turkish]

I agree with Rose1 about the empathy. I don't think it's a lack of it so much as such a high focus on self (coming out of this lifelong fear/guarded state) that there isn't emotional room to really allow themselves to imagine how others feel. I also think that often they are ashamed of how they treat people, which adds to the reluctance to build their "empathy" muscle because it would reveal the depths of their bad behavior, which would then "prove" that they are "bad" as they fear (since they are binary thinkers about people, including themselves, I think).

My pwuBPD is my mother, so I've gone at it different ways over the decades. For a long time I thought her trouble empathizing with me stemmed from me not communicating things in the "right" way, so I would try and try and try (yes, an eternal optimist). What I've noticed in my attempts is that she CAN express empathy (though she also is quite high functioning) but it takes quite a bit of time. I have to validate her, I have to stay positive and not get frustrated with her, I have to go slowly and make sure that she is first heard. I have to make it clear there is no blame going on. Then, as she feels safe, she will let some of those very high defensive walls down enough to come out and imagine the scenario I am explaining.

I can empathize with this :^)

My mother, diagnosed Depressive, is still emotionally unstable. She is very intelligent, and has offered good insight and support into my X's behaviors. My mom, however, also has BPD traits. Last year, I was joking how much I hated the peanut butter and mayo sandwiches she used to feed me as a kid. It triggered her into a crying episode. She even went to my pwBPD, whom she didn't really get along with, and talked about how she "couldn't do it" (be around us and her grandchildren) anymore, talking as if I were not in the room when I was standing right there. I thereafter talked to my mom, and she cried, "I did the best that I could!" obviously still wrapped up in some guilt 35 years later. No appreciation of my view and feelings. I calmed down, validated and made her feel safe, then it was ok (she was actually going to jump into her car late at night and drive 3 hours back to her home). I told myself, "never bring up the peanut butter-mayo sandwiches again! Nor the PB-banana, nor the cream cheese and jelly... .all of which I hated."

[BuildingFromScratch]

I disagree with much that is said here. They adore the things in their life because the things in their life are their identity. Empathy I think requires putting your feelings aside, which they can't do. This doesn't mean they don't care. They just see things through their own prism of suffering and victim hood and not through the actual suffers eyes. And yeah, if it was ever a choice between her and anyone else, it was ALWAYS her.

[hergestridge]

Empathy I think requires putting your feelings aside, which they can't do.

Which I supposed why they don't seem to care until you start screaming, crying or throwing stuff at them. Then you manage to convey some emotion and feeling to them. I can tell my BPD wife over and over again how I don't want her to do this and that because it makes me sad and she just brushes it aside, but when she can see with her own eyes that I'm sad (i e I'm crying), the penny drops. And then she's genuinely surprised (and even then, she seems to think that my crying is the problem - and that in itself becomes the problem).

I've talked to my wife about empathy many times. She's sort of rationalized her own pathology in way because she think it's up to other people make themselves heard if she steps on their feet. She seems to think that people are "too sensitive".

So I think there is a way to create some sort of semi-empathy with borderline people by creating really strong emotional responses in them (i e treating them like children). But who can keep up with that?