Reverse psyhcology, ever work?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

After 2 weeks no contact with my uBPDexgf of 2years, except the odd private more or less 1 way fb messages and one back from her saying she's still peed of me at the mo, for trying to tell her she had BPD just before new year. I feel like my FOG is lifting now especially as i have good friends that completly agree with me that she has BPD and treated me like s@#t post break up.

She's a waif and not exactly the sharpest tool in the cabinet, i.e. Not likely to be able to master any great schemes,  though has made me feel like i should be to blame for some of the things that caused the end of the r/s up until a few weeks ago when i started coming to my senses.

She did ring daily whilst going through the splitting, up until xmas and tell me how much she doesn't deserve me, which i tend to agree with now. Though didnt at the time.

No doubt she'll be acting the victim, possibly to her new target now and all the usual stuff like she said to me about her previous ex.

So im thinking may be i should send her 1 last message and put the ball back in her court and tell her how traumatized and victimized i feel after she finished the r/s and could only come up with reasons for splitting up that from her words only came from her parents, or her evil sister. Tell her that if she ever wants to speak to me again and wants some money we are possibly getting from an old insurance claim she will have to say the word sorry for turning my life upside down on its head for the last 2 months, something I havnt heard said once since we split up.

May be tell her she was the one who was controlling, not me etc...

I may slip in i feel sad for her that she's ill and know she cant help being disordered just to be nice at the end.

Anyone tried doing anything similiar? What were the results?

I cant ever see me wanting to get back with her, i dont want to have anything to do with her crazy family so is very unlikely i'd be stupid enough to get sucked back in even if i did hear back from her now.

[dangler321]

After 2 weeks no contact with my uBPDexgf of 2years, except the odd private more or less 1 way fb messages and one back from her saying she's still peed of me at the mo, for trying to tell her she had BPD just before new year. I feel like my FOG is lifting now especially as i have good friends that completly agree with me that she has BPD and treated me like s@#t post break up.

She's a waif and not exactly the sharpest tool in the cabinet, i.e. Not likely to be able to master any great schemes,  though has made me feel like i should be to blame for some of the things that caused the end of the r/s up until a few weeks ago when i started coming to my senses.

She did ring daily whilst going through the splitting, up until xmas and tell me how much she doesn't deserve me, which i tend to agree with now. Though didnt at the time.

No doubt she'll be acting the victim, possibly to her new target now and all the usual stuff like she said to me about her previous ex.

So im thinking may be i should send her 1 last message and put the ball back in her court and tell her how traumatized and victimized i feel after she finished the r/s and could only come up with reasons for splitting up that from her words only came from her parents, or her evil sister. Tell her that if she ever wants to speak to me again and wants some money we are possibly getting from an old insurance claim she will have to say the word sorry for turning my life upside down on its head for the last 2 months, something I havnt heard said once since we split up.

May be tell her she was the one who was controlling, not me etc...

I may slip in i feel sad for her that she's ill and know she cant help being disordered just to be nice at the end.

Anyone tried doing anything similiar? What were the results?

I cant ever see me wanting to get back with her, i dont want to have anything to do with her crazy family so is very unlikely i'd be stupid enough to get sucked back in even if i did hear back from her now.

[guiltyandsad]

dangler321,

I hear you regarding your line of thinking.  I ended things and am 1 week NC.  I did try that strategy on a couple of occasions and all it did was push things in a worse direction.  my BPDEXgf ended up saying that I am dragging up the past and I never mentioned it before and now she knows how I really feel.  I think it made her more terrified that things were really ending and it made things much worse.

that's just what happened with me though, think it through on your end.

I hear you regarding feeling bad knowing our SO's are ill and can't control their emotions.  but again think hard on that too, I recall many times and cycles when I was sure I was done, like the time she tried to hit me in the chest 6 months out of open heart surgery during one of her rages, but ended up doing something like this, putting the ball in her court one more time, and either getting a rational loving response and getting sucked back in.  or a crazier response ending in hours of circles ending with me comforting her and apologizing and again getting sucked back in.

good luck and hang in there.

[dangler321]

I know what your saying, cause my feelings seem to change towards her daily, today i feel used and angry.

I don't like being taken for a fool and want her to know that i know exactly what is going on with the whole situation. May be that may make her stop and think a bit about herself and finally break her cycle, get help and stop victimising other poor innocent people.

The pain and trauma she has put me through is immense. Her natural mother who abandoned her at 2 is obviously the same, my ex said she is starting to see her mother when she looks in the mirror, may be she is starting to see that if she doesnt stop now she will go down the same path in life. Something my ex always said she never wanted to do.

[marbleloser]

 I played her own game against her and she HATED that. I saw the lies,the triangulation (read definition),etc.,,so, I lied(to her) and triangulated back with multiple people. She was left with her mouth hangin open and not knowing what was goin on till the end.Haven't heard from her since.

[seeking balance]

So im thinking may be i should send her 1 last message and put the ball back in her court and tell her how traumatized and victimized i feel after she finished the r/s and could only come up with reasons for splitting up that from her words only came from her parents, or her evil sister. Tell her that if she ever wants to speak to me again and wants some money we are possibly getting from an old insurance claim she will have to say the word sorry for turning my life upside down on its head for the last 2 months, something I havnt heard said once since we split up.

May be tell her she was the one who was controlling, not me etc...

I may slip in i feel sad for her that she's ill and know she cant help being disordered just to be nice at the end.

Hi Dangler,

It sounds like you are having a tough time completely detaching - that is totally normal.  And, it is normal for you to want to feel heard by your ex; we all want to feel heard by someone we love.

However, if your ex is BPD - you have got to accept she is mentally ill.  Trying to use reason with someone who is flawed in their ability to handle emotions, rejection (real or perceived) and abandonment is only going to hurt you and her.

For me, it was beneficial to learn the FACTS of how the disorder presents - it was only then that I could let go of my own anger and hurt and realize my ex was mentally ill (not just acting like a mean person).  Read and reread - https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm

What symptoms does you see in your ex that meet the criteria for BPD?

Borderline Personality Disorder is a pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

1.    frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5

2.    a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.

3.    identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

4.    impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

5.    recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior

6.    affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).

7.    chronic feelings of emptiness

8.    inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

9.    transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms

Peace,

SB

[Free One]

However, if your ex is BPD - you have got to accept she is mentally ill.  Trying to use reason with someone who is flawed in their ability to handle emotions, rejection (real or perceived) and abandonment is only going to hurt you and her.

For me, it was beneficial to learn the FACTS of how the disorder presents - it was only then that I could let go of my own anger and hurt and realize my ex was mentally ill (not just acting like a mean person).  Read and reread - https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm

This is how i have also found it easier to detach and understand.

[guiltyandsad]

dangler - I too am having trouble detaching and it's great advice from seeking balance.  I have gone thru so many periods of anger and wanting to be heard and wanting to cause my exBPDgf more turmoil because I suffered so much.  But as seeking balance said this only hurts both of you.  trust me when I say I can vouch for that from personal experience. 

it's a lot healthier for ourselves and our recovery when we can find a way to let the anger go.  in the end it is a human being with an mental/emotional illness that is in pain caused by something they can't truly control.  I think of my exBPDgf as a very troubled child now that I can't help.  before realizing this I viewed her as a terrible person who needed to experience what I have.  I'm happy I've been able to let the anger go.

Thanks for posting and I hope you feel better soon.

[avoidatallcost]

In the end, NOTHING ever works.  That's the nature of the disorder.  As a non, being in my relationship with the BP was the most frustrating thing in the world I have ever had to endure.  And I have been through A LOT in my life so this is saying quite a bit.

These are the things that I have tried, along with their results:

1. Being nice.  Result: She used me for whatever she needed, then got rid of me when she didn't need me any more.  It was that simple.  

2.  Being mean. This worked a little better then #1.  At first.  But then, after you ignore her for a while her pent up rage eventually comes out and you suffer even more than you did after implementing strategy #1.  Besides, this only works early in the relationship, before you have been hooked onto your BPD/heroin fix.

3.  Drugs. And by drugs, I mean the latest anti psychotic and anti depressant medication, ie zoloft abilify etc etc you name it she tried it.  This seemed to work.  Again, at first.  But in the end the effects of the medication is even worse on the non BPD person, because then you start thinking "hey she's getting better maybe there's some hope here after all."  Unfortunately, this line of thinking illustrates the main problem of BPD relationships to begin with: malignant optimism.  Eventually, things will always get worse.  You cannot stop this it will happen no matter what you do.

4.  Therapy. I've read some articles by experts who claim that it is possible to "cure" BPD.  I even read one article claiming that BPD naturally goes away after ten years in 88% of diagnosed patients.  I disagree.  In my experience, therapy seemed to only reinforce in the BPD's mind that I am to blame for everything and she needs to get rid of me.  In conclusion, I think the only use of therapy was to allow my BPD ex to "vent" about me once in a while.  About other things in her life too, but mostly about me.

5.  Showing her how much I loved her, both by telling her this and through loving, caring acts.   This ALWAYS backfired.  The more I loved her, the more she hated me.  I didn't understand it at the time, but thanks to all the reading I have done on BPD I now realize that in the mind of the BP this makes perfect sense.  They are so terrified of abandonment/engulfment etc that they push you away the more the see how much you care about them.  Also, when they care about you a lot they become just as hurtful and destructive towards you.  Actually, even more so.    

6.  Reverse Psychology.  BPD's are master manipulators.  The only ppl in the world better at this are sociopaths.  You know, serial killers.  That's how good BPD's are at this.  No matter what I tried, the BPD was always one step ahead  of me.  Just when I thought I had her acting normal or more loving towards me, the disorder's automatic survival reflexes would kick in and screw me over.  She would change at the drop of a hat - and sometimes even faster - through no discernible fault of my own.  This happened every day.  No matter which avenue I took, I would always lose in the end.  

In summary, NOTHING EVER WORKS. Reverse psychology, loving them, ignoring them, therapy, or drugs.  They will beat you at this game each and every time.  You may win a battle here and there, but BPD's will win the war hands down each and every time.

[guiltyandsad]

avoidatallcost - great post about the outcomes of the strategies you tried. yes in the end I always told myself we are playing by a different set of rules than our BPD partners. sort of like batman vs criminals. for the criminals anything goes but batman must follow certain rules and laws to achieve his goal. an unfair fight for sure.

and yes the only battle two battles I claim as victories in my 3 year r/s with my BPDexgf was 1. getting her to admit to her ex husband and I and a therapist she has something affecting her relationships. T diagnosed bipolar with anxiety because her brother is dx medicated bipolar and her mom and dad were both disabled with anxiety.

2.  getting her to stop her rages short of violence. after she got arrested for trying to punch me in the chest after open heart surgery she never went there again and she would end up walking away when her rage would become too much.

small battles won, but I lost the war for sure with many casualties of friendships,y self esteem and overall health.

[avoidatallcost]

avoidatallcost - great post about the outcomes of the strategies you tried. yes in the end I always told myself we are playing by a different set of rules than our BPD partners. sort of like batman vs criminals. for the criminals anything goes but batman must follow certain rules and laws to achieve his goal. an unfair fight for sure.

and yes the only battle two battles I claim as victories in my 3 year r/s with my BPDexgf was 1. getting her to admit to her ex husband and I and a therapist she has something affecting her relationships. T diagnosed bipolar with anxiety because her brother is dx medicated bipolar and her mom and dad were both disabled with anxiety.

WOW you actually got her to admit that she may be responsible for her failed relationships? This is extraordinary progress I have no idea how you were able to manage this.  And yes, I feel like a cop battling a cocaine cartel they got all these high tech weapons like submachine guns, rocket launchers, and unlimited money while I'm stuck with a tiny pistol.  With one bullet loaded.  That is actually a blank.

There's no winning against this disorder as much as I miss the good times thank god I am out.

[seeking balance]

4.  Therapy. I've read some articles by experts who claim that it is possible to "cure" BPD.  I even read one article claiming that BPD naturally goes away after ten years in 88% of diagnosed patients.  I disagree.  In my experience, therapy seemed to only reinforce in the BPD's mind that I am to blame for everything and she needs to get rid of me.  In conclusion, I think the only use of therapy was to allow my BPD ex to "vent" about me once in a while.  About other things in her life too, but mostly about me.

I am going to elaborate and clarify here so that all of us are on the same page.  ANY therapy only works as long as the participant is committed to getting better.  Due to the nature of the disorder - it exists to deny itself - it takes a very committed person to recover.  Coupled with the fact that the majority of mental health professionals are not properly trained to treat this disorder and the family or support system is not educated on the facts of the disorder - it really is a tough process.

Be clear though - if a pwBPD commits and gets the correct therapy; it is VERY possible to recover.  A great read about this is The Buddha and the Borderline - a powerful read that shows it is not simply a matter the pwBPD not wanting to recover, but also the system itself (including family).

[guiltyandsad]

avoidatallcost - yes I couldn't believe it either.  her ex-husband and I agree that it was the combination of him staying friends with her and her discussing with him on their own regarding her relationship with me.  she would ask him, did I do this when we were together or did you feel this way because my current bf says I make him feel a certain way etc.  after that the three of us ended up in a therapists office because I had broken it off for the first time with NC and she had a complete meltdown.  I think it was those things being aligned that allowed her to admit things.  But in the end it was a draw because my childhood abuse and codependency issues came up during future therapy sessions together and on my own and that became a focus for her to say, well it takes two and our issues are just as bad.  it was sad because when she admitted she had a problem I made a renewed commitment to stay.  in the end I almost lost my life and health to her rage and emptiness that I tried desperately to fill and return to the honeymoon stage.

I hear ya regarding the blank bullet.  I too miss the good times so much it hurts since this time of NC is only a week old.  I saw her ex husband last night and he said she's a mess too.  I broke down in front of him and cried and said I so much want to be there for her but we both came to our senses and said NO WAY.  it's funny because he spent 7 years with her 5 of them married and we both agree - he had it way worse because back then she blamed it all on him and hadn't admitted any fault yet.  he says he feels he aged twice as fast during that time.  he is thankful for our meeting and knowing each other even though she had an affair with me while married to him.  he said having me to talk to about it allows him some form of closure/validation that he did his best and it wasn't all him.

seeking balance - good point regarding possible recovery.  as well as the points of difficulty due to mental health professionals not being trained - the T we saw hadn't ever heard of BPD and went with Bi-polar right away just because of her brothers dx and time spent in a psych ward.  but in my heart I believe that if she had more of a support group, a trained therapist specializing in BPD and a stable partner with his own issues worked out (definitely not me  ;p ) there is a chance for recovery.  it is my personal opinion tho that recovery would require a lot of maintenance work to stay in recovery on the parts of all involved. 

for now I worry for myself.  looking forward to seeing my therapist at 2 today

[myfault]

It is the preverbal rodent wheel. Round- round we go.

Their emotional condition makes it hard for them to feel things like we do. Heck, even we do not like to be blamed for “stuff”, but in their case it is ten thousand times worse. That is why when we pointed out the “bad” or “erratic” stuff they did, (and trust me when they are in a reflective mood they know what they did) the pain of knowing for them is so immense that they don’t want to feel it so they deflect it all back to us.

Then add to it the mind numbing FEAR they have pertaining to abandonment. They have been abandoned by others, from actions of their own doing , but they can’t face that because it causes pain. They know something is wrong, they know they are “bad”, but the feeling of emptiness is so great that they have to fill up again, try and feel again. Plus to them the honeymoon phase is just as addicting to them as it is to us. So they “ask” for our love by doing everything right, everything we want them to do. We now have gotten CLOSE to them, just like the others, just like the one that started the abandonment issue, a parent. They  have a huge war within themselves now, and we are the enemy. “I know he or she is going to leave me just like the others, so I will force them away… (rage, insults, abuse). But then they back peddle because they  DON’T want to loose you… “no, no wait don’t leave me” (compliments, mind games, adoration). The closer you get, the more attached to you they become, the more the abandonment issue hits them. The more the flop back and forth between love and hate. We as the nons are told have boundaries (ok good), walk away when abuse is apparent and no contact. Have you really wondered what all of this does to their HUGE issue of abandonment? In detaching (for our own safety) we are in essence abandoning them yet we think we are helping them.

Round - round  we go.

[guiltyandsad]

myfault - thanks interesting perspective I never thought of. it has sparked more pondering for me as to why I've read and been told by my T that walking away NC is kinder than staying. I know it benefits my health and emotional well being in the king run. I believe what my therapist said is the benefit to my BPDexgf is that the hope is eventually when there is no one left she'll seek out help on her own. because as long as in there trying to fill her need sand validate her she will never get help. sigh. such a sad and vicious condition to have. my heart goes out to all out there with BPD and to those of us trying to make sense of it. we are human and it is in us to seek love. in the end that is what both sides want and can't find in one another.

[myfault]

myfault - thanks interesting perspective I never thought of. it has sparked more pondering for me as to why I've read and been told by my T that walking away NC is kinder than staying. I know it benefits my health and emotional well being in the king run. I believe what my therapist said is the benefit to my BPDexgf is that the hope is eventually when there is no one left she'll seek out help on her own. because as long as in there trying to fill her need sand validate her she will never get help. sigh. such a sad and vicious condition to have. my heart goes out to all out there with BPD and to those of us trying to make sense of it. we are human and it is in us to seek love. in the end that is what both sides want and can't find in one another.

Your welcome

Yes we are told to walk away to have no contact because like a drug addict, they NEED to hit rock bottom before they will SEEK the help they need.

The only problem here is that it is a vast world, they will find someone else to fill that void. Or if they are one of the lucky ones , they will have an inkling that something is very wrong with them and seek the help. 

I think that they have to loose ALL CONTACT with the people they feel are important. But how do you have everyone on the same page as you?

I don’t know.

[guiltyandsad]

yes that is a good question myfault. yes it is like a drug and yes this vast world has so many other victims. my exBPDgf is pretty high functioning and very attractive and is a magnet for men. I was talking with her ex husband last night and he told her flat out that there is something wrong with her and she will repeat the cycle with next man. he told her flat out as well she is turning 42 in a couple of months. he said you are only attractive and vivacious for so long and that unless you want to end up growing old alone it's now or never to work on fixing yourself or moving on to guy number 26. I'm number 25 btw . sigh sad!

[guiltyandsad]

Myfault I forgot to mention that your last question about getting everyone on the same page got me pondering what I've been afraid to even think. I'm seeing my therapist again now and was thinking that after a year or so if I've resolved my fixer/rescuer codependency issues whether I can take the chance to return to contact with my exBPDgf and with the help of her ex husband try and get her into therapy and be part of the support process. I am thinking too far ahead but even at that it already sounds like a bad idea to me. 

[seeking balance]

Myfault I forgot to mention that your last question about getting everyone on the same page got me pondering what I've been afraid to even think. I'm seeing my therapist again now and was thinking that after a year or so if I've resolved my fixer/rescuer codependency issues whether I can take the chance to return to contact with my exBPDgf and with the help of her ex husband try and get her into therapy and be part of the support process. I am thinking too far ahead but even at that it already sounds like a bad idea to me. 

If we are all honest, we have had that thought - give yourself a year to focus solely on your issues and learn about BPD - after that time, you will likely come to realize as much as that sounds kind; it is just not really probable.  It is this realization that we must grieve the person we knew.

[myfault]

guilty;

I think... .bad idea.

Good for you to want to try. But if she doesn't want it you are just waving a red flag in front of the bull.

Think about it. You have a disorder, you know you have a disorder but don’t want to believe. Now how would you feel if everyone you know comes to you…

“Ah, Guilty… we ummm think that you are sick in the head and want you to get help”

How would you feel?  I would be pi**ed!  ;p

No she has to want it, be so down and out the SHE get the help on her own.

I have dropped hints to my H. About the books, treatment (DBT). That is all I can do. Weather he chooses to help himself is up to him.

Personally I think he has found another host to feed off of. I haven’t heard from him in a bout a week. I’m NC he usually is not… about 15 texts a day, and messages…

[ForeverDad]

Reverse psychology?  It might work - once.  Remember you are dealing with oppositional, backwards illogic, however once the person realizes you've done an end run, then it's likely back to the old Moving Goal Posts Game.  You can't "win" (or help) if the goal posts keep getting moved as soon as you get close enough to score.

As others have noted, it's likely she's been pointed in the right direction before, even many times in the past, but she has to want to change for anything to work.  For many (or most) it seems their Denial is too great an obstacle for them to overcome.

I don't know your full story, but re-engaging with your ex is probably too risky.

[ItsAboutTime]

"So im thinking may be i should send her 1 last message and put the ball back in her court and tell her how traumatized and victimized i feel after she finished the r/s and could only come up with reasons for splitting up that from her words only came from her parents, or her evil sister. Tell her that if she ever wants to speak to me again and wants some money we are possibly getting from an old insurance claim she will have to say the word sorry for turning my life upside down on its head for the last 2 months, something I havnt heard said once since we split up."


After you said that, you switched around and said you don't want anything more to do with her. You're beginning to emerge from the FOG, do you really want to dive right back into it and have to start all over again?

[captainkirkz]

If we are all honest, we have had that thought - give yourself a year to focus solely on your issues and learn about BPD - after that time, you will likely come to realize as much as that sounds kind; it is just not really probable.  It is this realization that we must grieve the person we knew.

Having done the dance with my ex TWICE 13 years apart i have a twist on this.

I didn't know it was the BPD dance the first time but i came out of it as shell shocked and confused as anyone. No closure then and i recovered and was stronger for it.

15 months later out of the blue she contacted me. I forgave ... .we became electronic friends(phone/text/email only) as she had moved over 200 miles away.

This worked as a friendship for 12 years. In that time we had some good laughs without ever really mentioning our previous dance. I do realise with hindsight that she was telephone triangulating (read definition) me for half of the 12 year friendship due to problems with her partner as between the laughs were the 'poor me, he's being bad again' outpourings etc etc and i was her validation. However, i had recovered, had forgiven and had absolutely no emotional connection with her at all. So it worked as a friendship, that way.

It worked so well that we decided to give it another whirl last year with the same crushing and soul destroying consequences. I still had no idea that she may have a PD 2nd time either, i just thought she was weird until a psychiatric nurse friend opened my eyes! N.B. with reference to the 'claiming that BPD naturally goes away after ten years in 88% of diagnosed patients'. She was definitely in the other 12% as she was much worse!

I was and still am crushed as much as anyone here is too but you know what? If she chooses to come back at me and ask for my friendship again on the same terms as before(electronic only)at some point, she will have it with the proviso that i never see her again, EVER! I forgive!

If she will never recover from BPD or whatever she may have and is stuck with it for good (which is highly likely as she doesn't think there is anything wrong with her) and a friendship that will harm neither her nor me is wanted, then it will happen. I will never contact her first, i didn't before but as long as i am recovered then i will do it gladly.

[seeking balance]

I will never contact her first, i didn't before but as long as i am recovered then i will do it gladly.

I try not to assume - so can you help me understand what you gain out of a friendship where she contacts you, but it is electronic and superficial - especially if you understand BPD and that she is likely triangulating (read definition) you with someone else?

[captainkirkz]

I will never contact her first, i didn't before but as long as i am recovered then i will do it gladly.

I try not to assume - so can you help me understand what you gain out of a friendship where she contacts you, but it is electronic and superficial - especially if you understand BPD and that she is likely triangulating (read definition) you with someone else?

What are the recovery rates for BPD? next to zero in reality. Superficiality may be ALL she ever has.

She functions really well when she is away from the emotional triggers and if at any time during our previous friendship had i thought that i triggered anything in her i would have stepped away. There was NO crazy!

Yes i may have enabled and validated her during that friendship whilst talking to her but wasn't aware of it.

As for triangulation (read definition), i did say that in hindsight ... .half of the 12 years she was telephone triangulating (read definition) me but the other half she most definitely wasn't.

I know from past experience that it will not affect me in the slightest once i have recovered emotionally.

So the question is ... .would a friendship of that kind affect her emotionally or cause her harm? I don't think so.

Away from me or anyone else that emotionally triggers her, she is a lovely person to be quite honest.

When we were close I judged her and i was wrong. I am not going to sit in judgement of her now! I forgive.

N.B. NO CONTACT right now is of the utmost importance right now for my/her well being!

[guiltyandsad]

seekingbalance, myfault and foreverdad  - thanks for the honest opinions.

yes you are confirming what my gut is initially telling me.  I just got back from meeting with my therapist and drinking my post session reflective cup of decaf.  I brought up the idea we just talked about and since my T has had sessions with both my exBPDgf and I together as well as individually she questioned my dedication to my own recovery. she said I'm only at the beginning of mine and I'm already thinking of my ex. she said that I need to choose between my health and recovery and live a longer happier life or return to my ex and die in her arms . she said I've been given a second chance after having open heart surgery at 33 and it's time to make the  most of it but I have to choose.

it helped to hear her say that my recovery is long but for my ex it is going to be extremely long and difficult given the issues she has and reminded me of the sacrifice I'd be making, possibly jeopardizing any progress of my recovery by rengaging my ex.

she said its like the children she treats. the parents mess the kids up at home unintentionally then drop them off for weekly sessions only to destroy the progress she makes with the kids because it's the same parenting that caused the problem caring for the kids in between sessions.  

so it looks like staying NC and keeping that as the plan is where I'm headed. I know in time I'll feel better and stop missing her and thinking about her. and besides as we all know too well I'm sure she'll find another victim before I'm making any serious progress with recovery. to be expected.

[seeking balance]

she said I've been given a second chance after having open heart surgery at 33 and it's time to make the  most of it but I have to choose.

it helped to hear her say that my recovery is long but for my ex it is going to be extremely long and difficult given the issues she has and reminded me of the sacrifice I'd be making, possibly jeopardizing any progress of my recovery by rengaging my ex.

This is golden information - keep it handy to read when you feel weak.

Hang in there - you will make it through this.   

SB

[MaybeSo]

I am going to elaborate and clarify here so that all of us are on the same page.  ANY therapy only works as long as the participant is committed to getting better.  Due to the nature of the disorder - it exists to deny itself - it takes a very committed person to recover.  Coupled with the fact that the majority of mental health professionals are not properly trained to treat this disorder and the family or support system is not educated on the facts of the disorder - it really is a tough process.

Studies currently are focused on suicidal ideation and other self harming behaviors or classic BPD symptoms that bring folks to the hospital ER etc., 

I don't know a study yet that treats and tracks success with high functioning subjects... .those not going to the ER, not cutting, etc.,  but stuggling with r/s instability.  Also, just because someone has stopped cutting doens't mean they are cured in the sense that they now make wonderfully stable r/s partners.  I don't know a study that has tracked r/s stability specifically. 

The problem is trying to control someone else by using 'techniques' or 'tricks'.  Let go. Don't try to control them.  Focus on your own self, control your own life.  It's the only thing you will ever truly have any control over.

[2010]

"So im thinking may be i should send her 1 last message and put the ball back in her court and tell her how traumatized and victimized i feel after she finished the r/s and could only come up with reasons for splitting up that from her words only came from her parents, or her evil sister. Tell her that if she ever wants to speak to me again and wants some money we are possibly getting from an old insurance claim she will have to say the word sorry for turning my life upside down on its head for the last 2 months, something I havnt heard said once since we split up."

This sounds like triangulation (read definition) woes. It appears that you're struggling for control of your lost object and fighting the effectiveness of "reasons for splitting up, that from her words- only came from her parents, or her evil sister."

If there's ever any indication that this woman doesn't act on her own accord- this would be it.

Borderlines are highly suggestible and because of this- they tend to follow other people's leads. That doesn't mean that the disordered thought process remains latent forever in the shadow of a grandiose self. It eventually triggers engulfment and causes the objectified Borderline to flee back to previous attachments (who in this case are telling you to go away) - Control of her dysregulation in her family is where the disordered thought process *again* begins a new start and she will once again search for reward outside of the family unit.  If she calls you, this would definitely be a form of "acting out" against her parents.

Since Borderlines tend to be "all or nothing" people, they have little skill in boundary setting and may deeply resent any attempt to impose boundaries. Being imprisoned, it seems is the distorted belief system that is entrenched by the controlling aspect of others. You are not going to help her by making her choose between the two attachments; (you or the family and its "evil" members)- because both are bondage constructs in her mind and not autonomy, with it's free will and decision making, which is what she needs.

The most valuable long range contributions that you can make to your ex's well being is appropriate limit setting on control.  Letting go of the outcome allows for a Borderline to make their own choices and determine their own outcome (something that some people on the board are unable to allow for-which should be investigated as to the reasons why.)

You'll need to learn to model the skills you wish that the Borderline would learn.  Self control.

Let go. You need to model being alone for her- and not require her (or anyone else) to be a part of your life as a symbiotic fused unit. (She already has that fusion in her family structure- it's a fundamental of the disorder.)  Most Borderlines have come from a family system that is still in operation that has set them up for long term difficulties. She'll need to address that rather than trade in one controller for another.

Part of helping Borderline waif after a break-up is to help her trust herself in her ability to take care of herself. That means she needs to make her own decisions rather than being pulled like a rag doll between two identities.

When you stop challenging her and her family, she can learn that she can trust you, but you'll need to set appropriate boundaries to have respectful adult communication that does not "reverse" itself in order to passive aggressively teach a lesson to her about your feelings.  Your feelings are yours- and projecting them on to her is a mistake.  Let go of each others projections and the outcome will be better. 

[captainkirkz]

I wish i'd said that!

Great post 2010. Every sentence, perfect sense.

Thanks!