Is it possible to NOT fall under their spell?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Simple question here... has anyone on this forum managed to date a BP and NOT get sucked into their vortex of emotional destruction? 

[avoidatallcost]

Simple question here... has anyone on this forum managed to date a BP and NOT get sucked into their vortex of emotional destruction? 

[GlennT]

Yes. But not dating, she is my boss. Thanks to God and my fellow family members here and all their knowledge through suffering. I have a female boss who has BPD. How do I know? From the signs I have read here, and my own experience. I must work with her through this . But she is unstable in business in some ways and in others she is fine. She is a lawyer, and is an alcoholic, has a psychosomatic disorder, and is in legal trouble herself. She is currently having sexual relations with 3 people maybe more? They are all unaware of each other.  I have been at business meetings at her home where one , would be leaving, and she would call another to come over crying she misses him. She cannot bear to be alone. She has tried to hit on me and I avoid her like the plague when that happens. She has not tried for awhile thank God. In business, she runs hot and cold, so I have to keep on my toes because if she has a falling out with a lover, she will paint me black partially also. And boy when she paint you black, she really can build a great case againest you! Btw... my boundaries are very strong, and she doe'snt seem to mind that I see all this, yet still tries to keep it all on the low for appearance sake with me ?

[avoidatallcost]

I have been at business meetings at her home where one , would be leaving, and she would call another to come over crying she misses him. She cannot bear to be alone.

This sounds very familiar, as I would spend an entire weekend with my BP ex, drop her off at home, only for her to call the next guy over to her place an hour later.  I found this out by reading her text messages.  And it really is so hard to tell whether this is due to BPD, because almost anyone, BPD or not, is capable of this kind of deceit.

So nobody here has successfully dated a BP for any prolonged period of time?  I have dated two borderlines, 7 years apart, and both were extremely chaotic relationships that lasted for a year.  I once dated a third girl casually for about a year, but I rarely saw her - maybe once a month or so - and never understood why she constantly dropped in and out of my life.  It never got serious, but one day we had a talk and she mentioned that she had once been diagnosed with being "mildly" bipolar, whatever that means.   Needless to say, I got the hell out of that relationship immediately!  So I guess you can say I got out of that without suffering much at all (other than wondering why she acted kind of weird), since I never got attached to her.  But I don't think this really counts since we never really saw each other very much.  

Has anyone successfully managed a BPD in a reasonably consistent relationship whether medicated or not?  

[MyLife]

Have you read United for Now's posts?  I highly recommend.

[avoidatallcost]

Have you read United for Now's posts?  I highly recommend.

I'll definitely have a look at United's posts... does he or she say anything about regularly dating a BPD being possible without being emotionally destroyed?

I find it speaks volumes that nobody has really answered this question in the affirmative.  I guess so far it's pretty much impossible to even casually date a BP without getting mentally tortured to at least some degree.

[Suzn]

Maybe taking a look at the Staying board might answer some of your questions. 

[realityhurts]

I perked up at your original question, the tile of the thread... I've often wondered the same thing...

Is it a pre-requesite for the BPD to have an unhealthy partner, or is it only an unhealthy partner who stays?

(Sorry to rephrase your question)

In hindsight I can honestly identify as an unhealthy partner. Not for everyone, just ripe for a BPD r/s, I truly believe I would've been perfect for the person who was presented at the start.

I don't think many people could resist my ex... The mirroring, the idealisation, yadda yadda... we all know the script... The cherry on the cake is that she is physically stunning.

I wonder how many people would have stayed, how many would have stayed until the tipping point of Love and commitment?

History suggests everyone... She's never been a plaything, a dalliance or a whimsy.

A part of me wonders at the humanity of the people that could just leave... .Do they have a heart?

I recognise that I have a problem with co-dependency... However, I like myself, I take care of myself.

Do we have a greater capacity for love than, so called, "normal"?

Is that another part of the problem?

It's a a genuine question.

[hijodeganas]

No, but I think I tolerated less and left a lot sooner than most would have. My ex was unfortunate (fortunate?) enough to have found a pretty stable and solid guy (me).

[Neverknow]

Simple question here... has anyone on this forum managed to date a BP and NOT get sucked into their vortex of emotional destruction? 

Absolutely.  I think a non has to be in kind of a dejected or depressed, or something less than normal, state to fall for a BPD.  I was in a funk when I met (and fell for) both of my BPD wives.  I have met, and dated, others like them before, and just kind of laughed and moved on.

BPD actually seems kind of transparent to me when I am running on all eight cylinders.  It's like falling for a financial con game.  Most people have at one time or another, but the rest of the time, would have quickly seen it for what it was and passed.

[avoidatallcost]

No, but I think I tolerated less and left a lot sooner than most would have. My ex was unfortunate (fortunate?) enough to have found a pretty stable and solid guy (me).

This is interesting... at what point did you realize that you needed to get out, and how far into the relationship was this?  Was it a certain incident or incidents that made you decide to leave before you suffered more?

Btw I commend you on having the strength to leave.  If it hadn't been for my BP ex leaving, I probably would have stuck around forever putting up with her abuses thinking it would one day get better.

[avoidatallcost]

BPD actually seems kind of transparent to me when I am running on all eight cylinders.  It's like falling for a financial con game.  Most people have at one time or another, but the rest of the time, would have quickly seen it for what it was and passed.

So true... but once you fall for the con game the suffering really is some of the most intense, painful torture you'll ever experience.  The emotional pain BP's inflict cannot be understated: when I was 18 my father passed away, and as much as my world came crashing down on me at that time it still wasnt as painful as my BPD relationship.  As bad as a close death such as this can be, it didn't result in me falling into major depression, PTSD, and developing anxiety/panic attacks like my BPD relationship did.

[hijodeganas]

No, but I think I tolerated less and left a lot sooner than most would have. My ex was unfortunate (fortunate?) enough to have found a pretty stable and solid guy (me).

This is interesting... at what point did you realize that you needed to get out, and how far into the relationship was this?  Was it a certain incident or incidents that made you decide to leave before you suffered more?

Btw I commend you on having the strength to leave.  If it hadn't been for my BP ex leaving, I probably would have stuck around forever putting up with her abuses thinking it would one day get better.

I may have had the strength to end it at first, but in all honesty if I hadn't found this place I don't know that I would have had the strength to stay away. But thank you.

It was the day after my birthday. She was criticizing me and projecting at me all day. I was just tired of it and a thought popped in my head: why am I putting up with this? I don't HAVE to. I asked her to stop and she reacted unreasonably and I ended it. Later on, of course, she tried to pull me back in... .

This was about two and a half months into it. I just had the spidey sense that she wasn't going to change and the relationship was only going to get worse. If only more of us would listen to (and stick with) our spidey senses I think we'd be much better off.

[avoidatallcost]

Only two and a half months in and she was already criticizing you to the point where you couldn't take being in the relationship with her any more?  This is probably the best decision you've ever made in your life I don't think you realize the full extent of the pain and suffering you saved yourself from experiencing! 

[BlushAndBashful]

So true... but once you fall for the con game the suffering really is some of the most intense, painful torture you'll ever experience.  The emotional pain BP's inflict cannot be understated: when I was 18 my father passed away, and as much as my world came crashing down on me at that time it still wasnt as painful as my BPD relationship.  As bad as a close death such as this can be, it didn't result in me falling into major depression, PTSD, and developing anxiety/panic attacks like my BPD relationship did.

Thank you for sharing this. I feel guilty even saying this, like my priorities are screwed up... .but for crying out loud, I had my NEWBORN SON die in my arms. That was one of the most horrific, painful things I have ever experienced... .but I know my r/s with my pwBPD screwed me up in the head even more than that. This illness depleted me and sucked my soul dry, and I sure didn't need this much "help" (therapy, support groups) to regain my sanity after losing him. I can't even freaking explain it.

[hijodeganas]

Only two and a half months in and she was already criticizing you to the point where you couldn't take being in the relationship with her any more?  This is probably the best decision you've ever made in your life I don't think you realize the full extent of the pain and suffering you saved yourself from experiencing! 

Haha. I have a pretty short fuse for that kind of stuff anyway. I dealt with it enough in my past. I didn't go through nearly as much as everyone else in this community, but I credit that to the brevity of the r/s. I'll never know for sure, but you're probably right: I probably saved myself from a lot of pain.

[avoidatallcost]

So true... but once you fall for the con game the suffering really is some of the most intense, painful torture you'll ever experience.  The emotional pain BP's inflict cannot be understated: when I was 18 my father passed away, and as much as my world came crashing down on me at that time it still wasnt as painful as my BPD relationship.  As bad as a close death such as this can be, it didn't result in me falling into major depression, PTSD, and developing anxiety/panic attacks like my BPD relationship did.

Thank you for sharing this. I feel guilty even saying this, like my priorities are screwed up... .but for crying out loud, I had my NEWBORN SON die in my arms. That was one of the most horrific, painful things I have ever experienced... .but I know my r/s with my pwBPD screwed me up in the head even more than that. This illness depleted me and sucked my soul dry, and I sure didn't need this much "help" (therapy, support groups) to regain my sanity after losing him. I can't even freaking explain it.

You know Mauser, I think the comparison of our BPD relationships to the worst kind of loss people can experience really illustrates the danger involved in staying with a BP.  If ever there is a reason to go NC and stay NC, it is highlighted in your post.  

[timebomb]

The hardest part for me was coming to terms with the fact my sweet,childlike,BPD was not that at all... she was a wolf in sheeps clothing and was actually the worst person ive met in my life.  I still shake my head at some of the stuff she did. I dont ever want to meet someone like her ever again.

[ellil]

Ok, this wasn't my experience, but the two women who dated my ex before me:

#1--he lived with her for three months and she got rid of him. So, she only took three months to recognize it wasn't going to work.

#2--they only dated about five weeks before she sent him an email that said, "Something's not right with you. I can't put my finger on it, but something isn't right."

Now, #2 ain't the brightest pumpkin in the patch, but she "got it" really quick. And she didn't let his brilliance, charm and great looks sway her. She ended it. And he was INFURIATED and threatened her (he's a lawyer) in the same strange ways he threatened me when I ended it. But I had watched it unfold with her so I wasn't surprised and I wasn't scared, recognizing they were idle threats.

M

[Easydoesitnow]

So true... but once you fall for the con game the suffering really is some of the most intense, painful torture you'll ever experience.  The emotional pain BP's inflict cannot be understated: when I was 18 my father passed away, and as much as my world came crashing down on me at that time it still wasnt as painful as my BPD relationship.  As bad as a close death such as this can be, it didn't result in me falling into major depression, PTSD, and developing anxiety/panic attacks like my BPD relationship did.

Thank you for sharing this. I feel guilty even saying this, like my priorities are screwed up... .but for crying out loud, I had my NEWBORN SON die in my arms. That was one of the most horrific, painful things I have ever experienced... .but I know my r/s with my pwBPD screwed me up in the head even more than that. This illness depleted me and sucked my soul dry, and I sure didn't need this much "help" (therapy, support groups) to regain my sanity after losing him. I can't even freaking explain it.

You know Mauser, I think the comparison of our BPD relationships to the worst kind of loss people can experience really illustrates the danger involved in staying with a BP.  If ever there is a reason to go NC and stay NC, it is highlighted in your post.  

Hear Hear... .this totally resonates with me.

[Easydoesitnow]

The hardest part for me was coming to terms with the fact my sweet,childlike,BPD was not that at all... she was a wolf in sheeps clothing and was actually the worst person ive met in my life.  I still shake my head at some of the stuff she did. I dont ever want to meet someone like her ever again.

After many recycles and currently being in treatment (4 different types of therapy and also on medication) for PTSD, I am finally getting a glimpse of the feeling that I never want to meet someone like him again... .it has been a VERY long time coming, it is just a glimpse, and I am hoping he will not contact until my disconnection is complete.

[avoidatallcost]

How long did your BPD r/s last and how long have you been broken up for?

I pray to God your ex doesn't try to contact you for a long time, because these BPD traumas are on a nuclear level and take longer to heal from compared to other more "normal" breakups.

My BP ex gf tried to suck me back into her black hole of suffering several times in the 3 months since our breakup.  I believe she did this to A) make me suffer and B) see if I would still be attached to her in case her current "friend" did not work out for her.  I believe it was mostly to make me suffer of course.

It's a very difficult road to recovery from the severe trauma we suffered from our BPD experience but eventually we will heal; our BP exes will almost certainly suffer incredible emotional pain for the rest of their lives.  We should feel sorry for them.  But at the same time, although I know it really wasn't my BP's fault, I still feel so angry at her for what she did and said to me and for how she treated me.  I'm also a little angry at myself for having let her treat me this way, but is it really my fault for caring for this person?  For blaming her behavior on mental illness that I thought we could overcome if I just showed her how much I cared?

The problem is the more I loved her, the more she hated me.

[Easydoesitnow]

Avoid, my r/s lasted 2.5 years on and off.  We officially broke up one year ago, he has been working on a remote mine site interstate(like half the rest of Australia!) and returning for one week every month.  :)uring the times he has returned, we have spent time together socially, which was very enjoyable, and he has always said that he hoped we could work things out, at the same time as not working them out.  

So before Christmas, I said I wanted it one way or the other, that I was not prepared to do the friends thing any more (there were no 'benefits' so I'm not sure what he wanted, must have been emotional support and ego-boosting of having someone so devoted I think).

He invited me out to dinner and said that he didn't want to lose me and he wanted to get some counselling to work it out.  I agreed.  I then saw him Christmas Day.  He told me he was 'out of control' at the moment, he had been drinking heavily and out of control, and spending impusively.  He said he was at risk of spending the $240K like of credit he had just secured.  He told me the night before (one night after saying he wanted to reconcile), that he had been to a pole-dancing club and paid a girl $500 for a private dance, $1500 to come home with him, and another $1500 because she wanted to 'borrow' some money.  He said she was 'not a prostitute'.

He is 47 (nearly 48).  He told me he 'just couldn't leave the young girls alone right now'.  I said he was obviously not in a position to be in a r/s right now and he became infuriated and kicked me out of his house, saying 'all men are predators, get over it', and 'you just have to accept, I don't love you, and right now, I don't even like you', and then telling me that my 'financial problems caused him stress', even though 1.  I have twice as much money as him.  2.  He had just spent $3500 in one night on a pole-dancer.

I contacted the mental health crisis team after this, and they send a psychiatric team out to his house as they thought maybe he was in bipolar mania.  They reported that there was no evidence of a treatable mental illness, and that the behaviour was more than likely personality based.  I was referred to domestic violence counselling.  They have been shocked at the nature of his verbal, emotional, sexual and psychological abuse.  I am in trauma counselling.

He now says that he needs to find a new companion quickly, and he is trying to get friendly with a female friend.

"The problem is the more I loved her, the more she hated me"

This rings very true for me.  You could almost see the contempt... .

I think the contempt comes from a feeling that they are unloveable... .it is not your fault for loving... .

[Easydoesitnow]

Some of the costs of this 'r/s' for me have been:

1.  approximately $80K in lost income due to trauma

2.  approximately $5K in counselling

3.  untold damage to my self-esteem

4.  suspension of the relationship with my children/guilt for 3 years as I was 'present but distracted'

5.  impact on my friendships as I was 'present but traumatised'

6.  significant damage to my professional standing at an important time in my career due to trauma

7.  more tears than I thought I had within

they are just a few of the costs - there are many more - and for what? - his self-centred gratification... .

The main thing I got out of the r/s was the joy in giving to another - but now I see that did not even bring him lasting satisfaction or happiness because he is effectively and 'empty cupboard', so it was a bit of a waste to have sacrificed so much.  I hope this realisation will discourage me from sacrificing more.

[avoidatallcost]

they are just a few of the costs - there are many more - and for what? - his self-centred gratification... .

And that's the best part of being with a BP.  The more you give, the more they take.  It truly is like a bottomless pit of needs that never gets filled.  They become more and more accustomed to treating you worse and I honestly don't think there's anything we can do to stop it.   Other than getting out of this crazy r/s, that is.   But telling me to "get out" when I was with my BP, and believe me all of my close friends did, fell on deaf ears and for me seemed impossible to do.  It was like my attachment to my BP ex was EVEN STRONGER than a heroin addiction.  Telling me to leave my BP ex to me was like telling a mother to stop caring and wanting to be there for her child.  That's how much I felt like I loved this crazy woman.  

And every now and then, she would say or do the most insanely provocative things, I'd flip out, and she would use my "rages" - which gradually occurred more often as the insanity of our r/s progressed and got worse - as an excuse as to why we couldn't "work out our problems" or why our "dynamic" was all wrong and why we just couldn't get along.  Looking back, now I realize her provocations were only getting worse the more calm I tried to stay.  Even during those awful times I felt like she was trying to get a rise out of me.  Thank god for this forum and other websites on BPD otherwise I'd be even more confused about this than I am right now!

It really is strange how similar their patterns of behavior really are... right down to how they even use the same terms to show us how everything was OUR fault.

[Easydoesitnow]

they are just a few of the costs - there are many more - and for what? - his self-centred gratification... .

Telling me to leave my BP ex to me was like telling a mother to stop caring and wanting to be there for her child.  That's how much I felt like I loved this crazy woman.  

Trauma bonding.

Intermittent reinforcement (I love you I hate you)

Stockholm syndrome

[darkstar]

I think we share the same history here. This treat really helps me right now, while she tried to make contact with me and I have to stay strong to not reply. The insane thing for me is that she has a replacement for me... .I really have to give up this need to understand her someway. its just impossible I guess.

I had to go back to my home country because  therapist are free for everyone... otherwise I would get stuck in my trauma (ptsd) in canada, because with my job there I had just a basic insurance... .and I was complete alone.

Easydoesitnow are you still not able to work?... cause I am in this situation right now and really have no idea how things can get better... .I really try everything but on some days I feel like nothing makes any sense anymore. its so difficult to put the focus back on me and not on her in my mind and due actions.

I think the contempt comes from a feeling that they are unloveable... .it is not your fault for loving... .

thats true... .even in my case she would never agree to that.

[Easydoesitnow]

Hi Darkstar,

I'm sorry to hear that you are suffering in a similar way.

I am now working again although not quite at the same capacity as I would have previously - small steps.  I think the therapy has really helped, and I am glad that you will be able to access therapy in your home country.  

One thing the trauma counselor said to me was that the bond is strengthened by the chemicals in our brain that are produced during trauma/stress.  She said the first step is to recognise that we are strongly addicted to a whole bunch of brain chemicals.  She suggested that when I think of my ex, try to see the object of my strong feelings and attachment as brain chemicals rather than a person.

I have a thread on the leaving board which lists my goals for each day - that is helpful too - it helps me to keep moving.

Although I am sorry that others have endured similar trauma, it is reassuring to me to know I am not some sort of 'fruitcake'.  

[trying to understand]

Someone said that the more you love them, the more they hate you. Maybe that's why r/s between narcissists and BPDs tend to work out better than with nons. I believe that narcissists can't really love so that feels safer for the BPD and the BPD person doesn't ever start hating them because the narc never really loves the BPD.

[santa]

I suppose that this is kind of an impossible question to answer.

The best answer I can come up with is "maybe".

I could have dated a BPD briefly and never known that she had this. I think you have to be pretty deep into a relationship to figure out what's wrong with them. They don't really act out until they think they've got you hooked. At that point, there's no getting out without some serious turbulence.

[love4meNOTu]

At what point did you realize that you needed to get out, and how far into the relationship was this?  Was it a certain incident or incidents that made you decide to leave before you suffered more?

I knew there was a serious issue two weeks after we married. This was after approximately 6 months of dating. He rushed me into marriage... .and I did not fight him enough... I was "in love". retch.

The incident was insane... .I was downstairs surfing the internet when I had insomnia at about 1 a.m. He was asleep when I went downstairs, I did not want to wake him when I was having trouble sleeping. He came downstairs and started screaming at me... .'YOU DON'T LOVE ME ANYMORE, ALL YOU CARE ABOUT IS SURFING THE INTERNET, YOU DON'T LOVE ME ANYMORE DO YOU, DO YOU". I stared at him like he was insane. I then said, yes, of course I love you, even when you are acting like an ass. He grabbed my arm and took me upstairs, told me the next morning he could not stand not having me beside him.

That evening I knew there was something very wrong with him. I told myself I would give it one year to improve, and instead, it grew worse month after month. I divorced him 1 year and nine months after I made that promise to myself of one year.

I love myself and my kids too much to let him ruin our lives.

I'm just sorry I didn't figure out that he had BPD until after our divorce.

God bless,

Lyn