BPD male avoiding sex

[Sailskier]

Ok... .here is one issue that still hurts.

We were together for six years.  Two of those, we saw each other 4 times each week. Sex was a given each time we saw each other, and it was exciting and passionate.

He moves in with me after two years, and sex gets scarce... .he uses every excuse not to be with me.  Now... .ok... .I will ring my own bell... .I've been told that I'm pretty attractive and a "sex kitten"... .... He too described me that way.

I can almost understand why a female pushes sex away... .it's the whole thing about... ."Now that I have you, I don't need to have sex w' you"  It's not right, but it is what I hear happens to "normal" women.

I hear a whole lot about BPD men being cheaters, sexually overdriven... .mine was not.  How does this fit into a male BPD?

It hurts to still think of the many times I was sexually rejected.  Any similar experiences?

[coffee shop]

My experience was very similar. We saw each other every weekend before the marriage. We took a honeymoon for 7 days and he slept on the couch 7 nights, he joined me in the bed once. I thought well maybe the travel to the honeymoon got to him or something. then we came home, he moved in with me and the sex stayed at once a week, later once every 2-3.

I asked why and never got clear answers. At first he said I was everything he wanted and that he was just stressed. after a while I quit asking.

After a couple years of this and much more I told him I wanted a divorce. In that discussion I brought up the lack of sex. We patched things up that time.

After that he started making more of an attempt but things started to get strange. Then one day he gave me a card that said he had arranged for another male to join us that night. oh my... .not what I expected or wanted. I almost left that night before he finally called it off. I didn't ask for anything after that.

I think he used sex or lack of to put me in my place. :-(

[Sailskier]

At first he said I was everything he wanted and that he was just stressed.

Wow... .same here.  Do you think that it is because sex triggers intimacy, and intimacy cannot be attain w BPDs? 

But why was it not a problem before marriage? In my case, after moving in and eventually getting engaged? 

[coffee shop]

I do think in my case at least there was the issue with intimacy. Before we only were together for one or two nights a week so I really wouldn't have guessed that was all there would be.

Also I was a good person in his eyes before the marriage. Everything he wanted in a wife. After the wedding I was stupid, nothing I did brough value to anything, even my work he considered anyone even a monkey could do it. So I think sexually I was not good after the wedding either.

[Sailskier]

Just like the words in the song " If you want to know, if he loves you so, it's in his kiss".

I will tell you this... .although, the sex was very good and frequent for the first two years, I always felt that something was missing.  It was as though, we weren't making love, just having sex.  There were no moments where he looked deeply into my eyes, or that his kisses were soft and loving. 

It felt as though that he was holding back... .but then again, he was snorting coke every weekend (didnt know it then)... .and when I found it, I chalked it up to the coke. But... .no... .the coke was his medication... .to quiet the confusion in his head. 

It left me feeling ugly about myself... .I was with men before and this never happened.  As a matter of fact, my ex husband would insist that we have sex all the time (another story... .). 

[Pema]

Same for me. I don't know if the newness wore off or what. I don't think the sex was ever good. I was enamored by him. I remember thinking.  I've had enough good sex in my life. It's a trade off, he really loves me and that's worth more.

At first I think because we were dating there was alcohol involved. When we were out he'd hang all over me. the tension would build and when we got home things seemed to fall into place. Sometimes very exciting.

As time went on, he'd still hang on me in public. I think he was showing off. Anyone looking on would think we were doing it like rabbits at home. Once we got home he'd be snoring.

I worried about his health and well being for a long time. Thinking it was a sensitive topic for a man. He never bothered to try to explain, to find out what was wrong or to see a doc. He was being passive aggressive a punishing me.

Then on our wedding night only 16 months ago, nothing. He pretended to be sick. I offered meds, he refused. Went to sleep in our honeymoon suite and snored while I watched TV. So sad. No hot tub, no champagne, no love making on our wedding night. It truly broke my heart, didn't seem to bother him in the least. Maybe once the docs were signed and the noose was around my neck he didn't have to bother anymore, I don't know.

Since then, I've tried everything. So humiliating. I don't care anymore. I don't care if he ever touches me again. Oh he is a snuggler and cuddler, might as well be my Grandma. There is no passion, no intimacy. And he makes no attempt to fix it. So I think he is doing it on purpose to hurt me.

He doesn't even want to invest too much time and trouble when it does happen he depends heavily on the vibrator to get it over with.

It really is humiliating.

Now I don't think he ever loved me, he just wanted his needs met.

This is simply NOT how a man who loves his wife behaves.

[redberry]

Ditto Helena!  I can raise my hand to almost everything you experienced. Lots of sex during the honeymoon stage then it started to die off.  I know that's normal to some degree, but it wasn't a natural settling down.  It was a control issue.  If I wanted it, he would find a way to refuse me and the times that he wanted it became less and less.  I think as intimacy kicked in the longer we were dating, he couldn't handle it and sex became a trigger.

I realize how much I put up with and it makes me sick.  At first he seemed more considerate of my requests (honeymoon), but later in the r/s, it's like he tried to make sure things I was asking for weren't in his plans.  But if he wanted sex in the middle of the night, he would wake me up--and I would allow it to happen.  To say my boundaries were lower than they should be is an understatement!  Scared that if I refused, he would leave me or get it somewhere else. Unhealthy, unhealthy, unhealthy.

[redberry]

At first I think because we were dating there was alcohol involved. When we were out he'd hang all over me. the tension would build and when we got home things seemed to fall into place. Sometimes very exciting.

As time went on, he'd still hang on me in public. I think he was showing off. Anyone looking on would think we were doing it like rabbits at home. Once we got home he'd be snoring.

My experience was identical, Pema.  Alcohol and clinging to me and great sex afterward at first.  Then, after the honeymoon phase, he would still drink and cling to me a little, but not even close to the way he did before.  And I, too, got the impression he did it to show off his "catch"   to the world, not to be truly affectionate with me.  Then, almost like clockwork, as the night wore on (and often after more drinks), he would find a reason to get upset with me or start picking a fight then full on dysregulation and we would go home upset, sometimes with me getting yelled at, sometimes I fought back but usually I didn't.  No sex.  Then (at times, assuming he even acknowledged getting mad at me before) we would have make up sex... .  Then the process repeats.  All along, though, it was a progression toward more fighting and less sex.  A real downward spiral.

[Sailskier]

After the honeymoon stage, the only times that he would come close to being as sexual as he used to be was when we were at some event, wedding, friend's party... .etc.  But, I noticed that usually occured when we were sleeping elsewhere.  It was as though, he was following through the excitement of the day, as though, he had learnt that it was what you were supposed to do when you had a special night out.

Idk... .this sex issue left me with such doubts about myself than I can handle... .idk if I can be truly sexual with another man as I used to be

[georgie girl]

I knew my BPD as a friend for several years before we dated and eventually got married.  He told me that he never had sex with these girlfriends beyond about 3 months of the relationship yet he went out with them for about 18 months!  I couldnt get my head round this at the time and wondered why they would stay in the relationship with him if it was like that?

He said his reason was because he want off them and was never into them in the first place - they were into him?  I wondered if this was because he was into them in the honeymoon phase when he could see they idolised him and admired him so he could "fall in love" and therefore have sex with them.

the weird thing is I remember having sex with him once or twice before we went out with each other and it felt like he was definitely just having sex - its like he was dead to the act of making love.  I remember when we eventually did get together thinking i couldnt bare it if sex was like that with him and it was too start with but it changed and became amazing when we were in the honeymoon phase and beyond. 

when he started to split me black - sex became non existant.  If i ever tried to talk about it he just said he was too stressed.  A few weeks before he left that became - "how can I make love to someone who abuses me!" "I am too scared of you to make love to you!"

[mermaid8]

Towards the end of my 3 yr r/s with my BPDbf, we were hardly having sex... .In fact, I think that he began to plan his "avoidance" technique on the way home if we were out somewhere etc, by saying in the car drive "oh my head really hurts or my stomach is upset or I am so fatigued"... .That was his way of letting me know that once we got home and in bed, it was lights out and snooze time. NO intimacy. How foolish would I be to put the moves on someone who was "feeling so bad". This was not like that in the honeymoon phase. I began to feel undesirable even though he would tell me I was sexy. But again, this was the whole thing about "actions did match his words". I could undress in front of him and he wouldn't even look at my nake body... .I must say that I have never had a shortage of looks from other men! But it really did a number on my self esteem! I began to think that he was sleeping around or that he was only depressed.

I recall one trip to Vegas where he became dysregulated when he asked me if I thought the photo of the male "strippers" they had in the lobby of a hotel were hot and I said, "yea, I guess"... .and he said "you guess?" and I said "well, yea honey, they are hot guys, what do you want me to say?"... .and then he began to pout and we went back to our room. I was really confused about what was taking place and asked him what was the matter and then he then said to me "I dont think you are as sexual as me"... .and I was just like "huh?"... .I don't know if that was projection of not but it made me feel so strange! SO confused!

When we did have sex, it was just that... .I felt that he was going through the motions but was detached emotionally. Most of the times afterwards he would easily just either get up from bed if it was in the morning to go do something else and left me laying there by myself. Or if it was at tnight, we did not remain close in bed afterwards.

There were also times when we would be laying in bed and he would say "tomorrow I want you to do xyz with me"... .He would talk about having sex but then we wouldn't... .I feel that his talking about it was almost a substitute for having it.

the whole experience has made me feel very insecure now sexually, as though I am not desired or sexually attractive...

[Pou]

My wife is a NPD and I understand what you are going through.  I have been battling the same no-sex problem.  So I finally figured it out, but it is hard to accept.  Because it is difficult to think like them.

In my case:

- In the beginning, she can not get her hands off me.  Sex was frequent.

- Next phase, she can not get her hands off me in public and when we are alone, she is cold, distant and pushes me away from having any sexual contact.

- Final phase, no public affection, no private affection.  when asked or even raise question why are we lack intimacy.  She flips out.  She screams at me and accuse me harassing her and threatens to call 911 if I keep talking about why there is a lack of intimacy.  She will not tolerate any discussion of it.  Needless to say, this has been going on for two third of our relationship, which means around 7 years. 

So, I think I have it figured out.  It is not about me or you ... .it never is, but it is hard to understand this, because we are normal.  NPDs/BPDs point fingers at you and instead of discussing for a solution, they flat out accuse, devaluate you (and me) and as usual, they appear to be super confident and super upset, leaving you confused many times over ... .wondering if you are the one who is causing all these problems.  At the end of the day, it is all about "CONTROL" for them.  They want to do things that will make you miserable ... so they feel that they have you exactly where they wanted you.  They don't want to give you what you want so they can predicably know you will come back to ask for the same and so they can excercise their controlling fix by once again putting you down and hurt you.  NPDs and BPDs are masters at hurting people who are close to them ... .and are completely powerless to people who simply do not care about them.  We care about them because we are married to them or we are related to them by blood.  They know that it is hard for you to simply walk away from their lives, so they hurt you intentionally and it is not clear how much pleasure that they derive from it.  I can only imagine that this is a dysfunction.  They simply do not understand the concept that ... oh, yes, you can divorce them, or you can opt to cut them off your life, related or not.  They know it is hard for you to cut them out of your life, so they keep pushing all the buttons ... .yes, they are sick people and they do not have empathy and it is all about them. The hardest thing to deal with living with someone who is a NPD is that I am simply "non-existent" in her world.  By rejecting you from receiving affection is just part of that projection.  Funny thing is that, they can and may even be very sexual with other opposite sex people ... .what I mean is that, I do believe they are prone to cheat.  Again, it is a form of control and don't try to understand it ... .because we are not sick, we will never be able to understand it.  I have been trying to stop asking "why" (very very hard to do) and focus on accepting and reacting accordingly ... and most of the time, ignoring her behavious manifested from her need to manipulate and control my wellbeing in a passive aggressive manner ... .there is no making sense with them.  The harder you try, the harder you fail and fall flat. 

[SmartTigerMom]

My decade long marriage had the same pattern as yours. So I agree and empathize.

But I did recently find out he cheated on me the entire time with more women than you can count on your hands and toes.   

so his drive was still there. But he was using sex to control and punish me and seeking the intense crazy sex elsewhere. So glad I am out of that insanity.

[CodependentHusband]

But I did recently find out he cheated on me the entire time with more women than you can count on your hands and toes.   

Even though I know that this thread is about a male BPD avoiding sex, so much of this rings true... .not on the wedding night, but in the months following our wedding... .After a year and a half, we are dwon to about once (sometimes twice) a month. The "preemptive" avoidiance statements made on car rides home ring really true with me too... .I can't tell you how many times I've heard similar phrases ("I'm exhausted," "My neck is killing me," etc) while driving home from what was a really nice evening. My wife has some NPD traits too.

Question for you here... .I've often suspected my dBPDw of cheating on me based solely on her lack of interest in me... .doesn't even seem to want me to flirt with her. Checks of phone records have always come up with nothing (that's good). How did you find our that your husband had been cheating on you with so many woman for so long without you knowing it? This is one boundary I'm not willing to let her cross, but I can't figure out if she has/does, and I don't want to be played a fool. I know it's not about me, but it DOES affect me!

[artman.1]

Helena52, CodependentHusband, All,

    I have encountered this with my UBPDW.  Before we were married, she wouldn't leave me alone, and even climbed into my bedroom window for sex, and loving.  The last time she told me she loves me was 43 years ago after our wedding.  She stopped initiating sex, hugs, kisses, and any other intimacy about 1 1/2. or two years after our marriage.  She listened to her younger sister, who was getting a divorce, and who called me a male chauvanist pig.  So she filed for a divorce, and started running around with her sister and GF's.  She would leave each eavening when I arrived home, and I could take care of our three sons, 3, 4, & 5 years old, and then come home in the morning so I could go to work.  I followed her once to a local night club, and saw where she was going.  I went back much later just before midnight, and saw her doing it with a guy in our car in the back of the parking lot.  We went to court, and then MC as requested in court.  The MC told her she would be on welfare, and controlled by the welfare department, and have very little to live on, and would have to work and use food stamps.  I think that scared her, as she thought she would get everything.  After court, she had a party in our home while I worked overtime all weekend.  When I came home our sterio equipment was missing.  I am sure her BF's took the equipment while she was busy in the bedroom.  After that her sister got divorced, and had nowhere to live and no money.  My UBPDW asked if her sister could move in, and I said yes, knowing two women just cannot share the same home, especially with one husband there.  Within a couple of days my UBPDW wanted to reconcile, and get her sister out.  We reconciled, and I moved us 1500 miles North to eliminate the distractions.  A year or two later, she stopped all intimacy which was only initiated by me anyway.  She has rejected me and allowed no intimacy for over 35 years now.  If I even try to hug her, she twists away and acts like I hurt her.  I was never able to determine if she was having affairs over the years, or if she just had mental problems.  I discovered she is BPD early last year, and I have codependent behaviors.  I have been working on me ever since.  I have the same question as CodependentHusband, I've often suspected my dBPDw of cheating on me based solely on her lack of interest in me, and the total refusal of any kind of intimacy, or kindness.  I was never able to detect any signs of cheating.  I am wondering how one is able to find out?

Art   ?  

[sometimesnow]

my H doesnt want sex either. we have been married 23 years.

even when it ws new, he would always top off the sex with self stimulation. i didnt get it as i was totally available to him. in his mind he thought i wasn;t i guess. i found it personally insulting to have someone follow it up with self stimulation. a woman wants to know she has satisfied and this isnt it. he then went on to never show a need but to self stimulate. i always found it hurtful like a betrayal. if he is self stimulating isnthe fantisizng about others? Isnt it a form of betrayal? arent men supposed to be with their wives?

then, when we have our twins, sex was scare on my end, but i tried time and time again to schedule a date as many books recommend he would never do that and blames all this on my being frigid

and so forth. he is the one who turned me off by his self stimulation early on. i am about as frigid as the equator. but he can cause me to feel frigid by his poor behaviors.

[SmartTigerMom]

Question for you here... .I've often suspected my dBPDw of cheating on me based solely on her lack of interest in me... .doesn't even seem to want me to flirt with her. Checks of phone records have always come up with nothing (that's good). How did you find our that your husband had been cheating on you with so many woman for so long without you knowing it? This is one boundary I'm not willing to let her cross, but I can't figure out if she has/does, and I don't want to be played a fool. I know it's not about me, but it DOES affect me!

Looking back, well hindsight is 20/20 right?  Looking back I see the signs he was cheating.  But I was in a FOG, I was also very trusting and he was very good at covering it up.  I took a look at those phone records too, nothing showed up.  He would use other avenues to find his 'hook ups'.   

He would also use another tactic, he would attack me for cheating - I never did.  I was so busy defending myself I had no time to focus on him.  Does she accuse of cheating? Is she accusing you of cheating a lot?  Is she really jealous?  Mine was!

I finally caught him with one woman - he says he got sick of trying to cover it up.    He started acting out of the ordinary and I caught on.     

But after I caught him, and went through the SHOCK that he would do the one thing he swore up and down he wouldnt do - and after I discovered this forum and BPD and felt confident he suffered from it - I told him I think this woman wasn't the first.  He denied it but months later confessed to the 'truth'.  That he was cheating from the beginning.     

One thing to consider.   I had myself convinced - read FOG - that I would put up with all the other chaos and abuse that came with my marriage, but I would not accept cheating.  That was my 'deal breaker' too.  Looking back, what kind of 'line in the sand' was that?  Disrespect me, hurt me, abuse me, try to make me go insane, ruin my life, but dont cheat on me - and we are OK.  Cheat on me, and now its too far?  I wish I drew my line to before 'disrespect me'. 

[kiikii]

    I'm a " newbie " here and I'm so grateful with all the posts here.

   Even the best T can't help me as much as what I've been getting from this board over the last 2 weeks because these stories are from the people "  been there, done that ", these painful experiences are real, not from the books as the T learn from, they are so real that I thought all the posts are my mirrors.

  Consider what most of people here going through, I'm one of the lucky one. I left him while we were still in the honeymoon phase, but I already seen the  projection , lying, lack of empathy... .

   And when I learned he used the sex to reward and punish me that's when I left.

   At the beginning, he tried very hard to give me the best sex I've could ever had and as soon as I was hooked, he used the sex to CONTROL me, the " push and pull " started... .

   These people are very sick minded, we can use our normal thinking to apply on them and we can't never understand their behaviors, that's why it's called " borderline " ( fine line between normal and crazy)

       

[CodependentHusband]

I finally caught him with one woman - he says he got sick of trying to cover it up.    He started acting out of the ordinary and I caught on.    

One thing to consider.   I had myself convinced - read FOG - that I would put up with all the other chaos and abuse that came with my marriage, but I would not accept cheating.  That was my 'deal breaker' too.  Looking back, what kind of 'line in the sand' was that?  :)isrespect me, hurt me, abuse me, try to make me go insane, ruin my life, but dont cheat on me - and we are OK.  Cheat on me, and now its too far?  I wish I drew my line to before 'disrespect me'.  

Okay... .well, right now, I'm just thinking she hates closeness, both emotional and physical. There is no way for me to know 100%, but I do find it difficult to see how she could get away with it without some sort of trail... .phone calls, email, etc. To answer your question, she accused me of having an affair a few times, but only when she was acting out to an extreme intensity. I think that she is paranoid that I may get my needs met elsewhere... .A reasonable fear, considering the lack of closeness in our marriage. With this said, she does approach me once or twice a month for affection. For now, I ultimately choose to trust her.

As for the other abuse... .it has dimished lately. Just because she is emotionally cold does not mean that she is abusing me to the same extent as she used to. I'm over the deep hurt caused by self-inflicted wounds... .I've emotionally distanced myself from her, and radically accepted things for what they are at present. I have no quams with chnaging my mind... .I reserve that right. ;-)

[Mariposa]

I will tell you this... .although, the sex was very good and frequent for the first two years, I always felt that something was missing.  It was as though, we weren't making love, just having sex.  There were no moments where he looked deeply into my eyes, or that his kisses were soft and loving. 

Helena52... .I felt and thought EXACTLY the same - it hurt a lot! Never felt like love. He wanted sex all the time to start with, but then it just kind of fizzled out, unless he wanted me to perform oral sex. Then he wanted to join swinger sites. We did join a couple (I was THAT desperate not to lose him!) and I hated it so much. He said that if we were to 'swing' then he wouldn't feel the need to cheat, as he has always cheated on is ex girlfriends. He would say that's it's me he loves and wants to spend the rest of his life with, but sleeping with other couples would be good for us! I stupidly and pathetically played along with it, knowing that if it ever came to the crunch, I would not go ahead with it. Thank god I got out before that time came  :'(   And I still love and miss the guy to bits - *Sigh* x

[mermaid8]

Helena52... .I felt and thought the same - it hurt a lot! Never felt like love. He wanted sex all the time to start with, but then it just kind of fizzled out, unless he wanted me to perform oral sex. Then he wanted to join swinger sites. We did join a couple (I was THAT desperate not to lose him!) and I hated it so much. He said that if we were to 'swing' then he wouldn't feel the need to cheat, as he has always cheated on is ex girlfriends. He would say that's it's me he loves and wants to spend the rest of his life with, but sleeping with other couples would be good for us! I stupidly and pathetically played along with it, knowing that if it ever came to the crunch, I would not go ahead with it. Thank god I got out before that time came  :'(   And I still love and miss the guy to bits -

I can relate to your comment about the swinging... .I think this may be  common among BPDs. My ex never came out and said "let's joing a swinger's club" but after the first year of our r/s when sex became less frequent and somewhat "strange", he would verbally fantasize about having other people join us during the act. More specifically, he wanted another man to join us or to watch me... .It made me begin to think that he was testing the waters with me to see how far I would go along with it. And I did sort of pretend that the idea was hot although I really wouldn't have followed through. What did not make sense was that on one hand was his extreme jealousy of any male that I either had to do business with or males who were just a friend... .but then he wanted to watch me be intimate with another male... .? Like huh? This all added to the confusion and the mind games that I felt that he was playing with me... .Towards the end I knew in my mind that I would not be ok with with an open r/s or a swinger lifestyle. And if my man was ok with the fact that his "love of his life" was intimate with other men, then there was something VERY wrong!  It also made me feel very devalued that the man who used to love me and want me so much was willing and encouraging a situation where he would be ok to share me... .Perhaps that would have made him desire me more if I was more out of reach? Is that the mentality behind it? Or does it put more of an emotional distance between us if we involve others?

[Mariposa]

I could never make any sense of any of it all. My ex was so insanely jealous, of men and women! I couldn't go to the toilet when we out without getting a interigated by him when I got back, so how he thought swinging would help us is beyond my thought process. I'd be really interested to hear other thoughts on this! x

[Easydoesitnow]

Idk... .this sex issue left me with such doubts about myself than I can handle... .idk if I can be truly sexual with another man as I used to be

Oh this is all very familiar.  A lot at first, then nothing, and if I complained, he was very hostile.

At one point, he said he wished he could have a r/s without sex as 'everything went wrong for him when sex was involved'.

Strangely, in fact cruelly, whenever we were on one of his 'breaks' he would come back and tell me about all his kinky sexual adventures - male/female/paid/anonymous/virtual... .whatever... .

Like SmartTigerMum said, it's like he was seeking the intense crazy sex elsewhere.

And yes, he also started to hint about an open r/s... .

Unhealthy

My confidence in this area is shot... .

[svenman]

Wow reading all these leads you to know how complicated of an area this is.  THere are so many buttons and issues that affect ones sexual identity and performance I dont know if its safe to just assume any one simple answer.  I am at the point where I feel like I am in hybernation from the sex intimacy issue with my wife. When we met I had no sexual experience and she had much sexual experience from many partners.  SHe was using sex as a stimulas from after only a couple dates.  Then as we had become engaged which is a another post for another day.  She would be relating her past history of sex to me during times of intimacy for us.  They were I have to tell you about me moments while we were naked and of course at the end asking if I still liked her and was still ok  Then suddenly three or four months before our marriage she decides that the has to cleanser herself of sex and be pure for the remaining time before we marry promising this will make the sex so incredible after we marry.  Our honeymoon night she spent in tears with her back to me.  Of course now the story is I was not complimentary enough and sensitive enough and if I had been everything would have been ok.  The first year in the rare occasions sex happened I was not allowed to even take my underwear off until the event for her was all over. if I did it meant I was just assuming too much and it made her become so uptight.  SHe was cold to even being kissed because she was sure the only reason I was kissing her was for sex.  It remained in similar fashion for us for years after.  THings did improve some in later years but I have been litterally blasted by her so many times over the years that its impossible to say we have any kind of a loving relationship.  You over time have to build walls to protect yourself because after a stretch of weeks or whatever it is you know that peace and tranquility is going to be just blasted apart by some event for your family.  Understanding love in the area of sex is such a mulitfaceited thing that it takes much understanding to know whats happening. Often times now she wants to know why I dont initiate it. Why initiate that close contact when you know in the morning your going to just get skewered for leaving a paring knife touching the counter so it now has germs and be lectured on it for 5 minutes plus. 

[HardDaysNight]

I don't think it is so much the physical act of sex, wanting or not, that is BPD.  Rather it is the fear of intimacy.  From what I've heard much of the hot BPD sex is not intimate, and sex is almost used as a cover for avoiding intimacy, and then later as a means of control.

Mermaid8,

Your example seems the perfect one.  He was jealous of you have an actual intimate relationship with another man.  But he had no problem with you being with a another man if their was no emotion involved and he could "control" it by having a say in who that man was.

[Sailskier]

Quite amazing to me... .all your stories lead back to the intimacy issue.

I wonder how freudian this theme may be.  Afterall, they have abandonment/anger issues with their caregivers, and being intimate with someone (I don't mean sex, rather than making love) may trigger the deep rooted memories of abandonment.  I used to think that as soon as we got emotionally closer & the more infrequent sex was, that it had to do with his unspoken hatred for women (i.e. his mom).  Afterall, it's difficult to be open and loving to someone who triggers memories of your own mother.

This is very complicated.  I need to just let it go

[mermaid8]

I don't think it is so much the physical act of sex, wanting or not, that is BPD.  Rather it is the fear of intimacy.  From what I've heard much of the hot BPD sex is not intimate, and sex is almost used as a cover for avoiding intimacy, and then later as a means of control.

Mermaid8,

Your example seems the perfect one.  He was jealous of you have an actual intimate relationship with another man.  But he had no problem with you being with a another man if their was no emotion involved and he could "control" it by having a say in who that man was.

HardDaysNight,

I never thought of that way, but you raise a good point. Yes, he was ok with me performing a sexual act if he could be involved and control some aspect of it, but he was very jealous of anyone that I could actually have a "connection" with... .if there were no emotion, he was fine.

The other thing that I found quite disturbing about our sex life was that even though sex became less and less frequent, he would constantly talk about the "ONE" thing that I did not find pleasureable at all and would not consent to... .and he would continually bring that up to the point that it made me feel that our sexual r/s was contigent upon whether or not I would consent to this one thing. I am not a prude by any means and sex should be a win-win for both people... .I felt that this was more of a control issue for him... .it made me feel bad about myself and I think he knew it which is why he did it. In my past, I look at other r/s and sex was never ever an issue and I felt that the men in my life were totally happy with me... .So this was HIS issue.  

[Sailskier]

he would constantly talk about the "ONE" thing that I did not find pleasureable

And if you did consent to it?  My guess is that it would not make a difference.  I suspect that it was just an excuse to not get closer.  Making love is as close as you can to a partner... .it has to be scary for them.  Mine would use the excuse that things were "chaotic" at home (because my son slept until noon and parked in the driveway... .yea... .okay  ). He claimed that he can only feel "the fire" when things are calm in his life.  Bizarre!  I never encountered a man that couldn't and wouldn't want sex because of the dirty dishes in the sink.  It was an excuse.

I think that I'm beginning to answer my own questions ...

[mermaid8]

he would constantly talk about the "ONE" thing that I did not find pleasureable

And if you did consent to it?  My guess is that it would not make a difference. 

I agree with you! I think it would have gone right back to where we were and there would have been yet another reason as to "why" he didn't feel good or in the mood!

[Easydoesitnow]

The other thing that I found quite disturbing about our sex life was that even though sex became less and less frequent, he would constantly talk about the "ONE" thing that I did not find pleasureable at all and would not consent to... .and he would continually bring that up to the point that it made me feel that our sexual r/s was contigent upon whether or not I would consent to this one thing. I am not a prude by any means and sex should be a win-win for both people... .I felt that this was more of a control issue for him... .it made me feel bad about myself and I think he knew it which is why he did it. In my past, I look at other r/s and sex was never ever an issue and I felt that the men in my life were totally happy with me... .So this was HIS issue.  

I know this one too... .mine once left me over this issue - stating 'the person I am with has to be willing to do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING in bed'... .that was after he had refused sex for several months... .

[HardDaysNight]

he would constantly talk about the "ONE" thing that I did not find pleasureable

And if you did consent to it?  My guess is that it would not make a difference.  I suspect that it was just an excuse to not get closer.  Making love is as close as you can to a partner... .it has to be scary for them.  Mine would use the excuse that things were "chaotic" at home (because my son slept until noon and parked in the driveway... .yea... .okay  ). He claimed that he can only feel "the fire" when things are calm in his life.  Bizarre!  I never encountered a man that couldn't and wouldn't want sex because of the dirty dishes in the sink.  It was an excuse.

I think that I'm beginning to answer my own questions ...

I agree there is no win here.  Even if you did it it would somehow not be right.  BPD/NPD are experts at making it sound like if you just did this one thing then all would be right.  And every thing wrong is your fault because you don't do this one thing.  It doesn't matter what that thing is... .  I have a whole list of the "one things" I was asked to do and when done, there was always another, or it wasn't done right, or she did not really want that thing but another.  Some were very hard and I had to change completely my routine.  I kept it up for a long time,once hitting all the things on her list for 9 months straight.  I'm nothing if not determined.  In the end she got worse.  If I had only known about BPD then I would have expected that.

I find this an example of black/white thinking.  A healthy person would take you in total.  So you don't want to do that one thing in bed but I bet there are plenty of other things that get the fire going.

I think it is sad either way your husband was so insecure about sex.  It may be an excuse or he may very well need to feel "calm" to get his fire going.  Either way, the examples you give make me think really?  That is all it takes to turn you off?  Talk about high maintenance.

So I come to realize there will always be something.  A pwBPD will always have something you are not doing that puts the blame on you.   If there is not something most people consider important they will choose something trivial, and after others tell them to get real, they will blow it out of proportion and make stuff up to make it a big deal.  You'll know this occurs when the pwBPD isolates you from their support network, since the people they rely on to validate their lies and mistreatment of you can't be shown the truth.

[ellil]

I was only with my ex one year, but sex is THE ONE area where there were no problems... .it was definitely one of the, if not the best part of the relationship My ex never really had any outward issues with intimacy, although I believe he was doing what he thought he was supposed to do (as far as intimacy outside the bedroom), all the while seething on the inside until it all escaped in his final rage incident.

I can honestly say I have no complaints about the sex and quite honestly, I'm glad I remember a thing or two or 20 to take with me into another r/s should I choose to enter into one.

M

[Confused69]

Hi Helena52, my story is a little similar.  My i got with my expbdgf thru an affair and we ended up leaving our SO for each other.  The sex was off the charts with this woman.  I mean, i could pretty much do anything with her (no 3rd parties) and pretty much anywhere.  The first 2 yrs were all about sex.  I could  write alot about it but that too is another story.  

Even though we argued and dealt with all her drama, we still had a very active sex life.  It didnt start to go down hill till her BPD really started showing.  I love sex dont get me wrong and shes very hot.  But we would get into some pretty bad arguements , im talking about relationship ending ones, and then shed do her famous, I love you dont leave me. AGGGGGhhhh!  She pulled that one so many times.  Anyways , then she would want sex, ill admit the first few times i was able to because i thought she was sincere and i love make up sex.  After it became a habit, i just couldnt have sex with her because it was so hard to go from fighting to an act of love and affection.  She had no problem, but it was very hard for me.  There were times id be to tired or stressed and she wanted sex.  I couldnt, but boy did she rage about that.  She would rip the covers off the bed, turn the lights on and tell me "your not going to sleep until you F*** me"  Hows that for a turn on. .

She even made me start taking viagra so i could have sex with her. Sex became a tool for her and she knew how to use it.  after a while we had sex only when she wanted it.  The great sex we once had had now turned into  a chore and it lost alot of its passion.  I think thats why i wasnt looking forward to our sex like i used to.  I miss our sex but that was the honeymoon phase i guess.  Sorry if i was off topic, but i wanted to post what my sex life was like with my BPD.  I think at the end, we were just sex.

[Pou]

She would rip the covers off the bed, turn the lights on and tell me "your not going to sleep until you F*** me"  Hows that for a turn on. .

She even made me start taking viagra so i could have sex with her. Sex became a tool for her and she knew how to use it.  

E709, I guess the intensity is the same in the beginning almost for everyone and then when sexual relationship starts to mutate (less about love, but more about control), then the lesson is the non-BPD or non-NPD partner has to be alarmed before heading to the alter.  It looks like your ex-girlfriend was trying to use sex to control you and it is also a way for her to feel that she is controlling you as long as you two have sex.  Now, if you initiate and be the aggressor ... .it may well likely that she will start to back off and starts to resist ... .just to demonstrate to you that who is in control.  My NPD wife is emotionally cold, but has lots of drama inside her head ... .and also shows no empathy to my hardship.  She also uses sex as a method to insert her control.  In any event, it is highly dysfunctional.  Sex is a way to express love and shared by two people only.  When BPDs / NPDs use it as means to control you that also means, she or he could be easily use it to insert control over her coworkers, her boss, or her inferiors or just friends ... .What I mean to say is that they view sex very different than normal people and I don't think it is somehting that they can intellectualize ... .I think it is just the way they see the world.  This is just my rude awkening from experiences and books read.

[CodependentHusband]

It looks like your ex-girlfriend was trying to use sex to control you and it is also a way for her to feel that she is controlling you as long as you two have sex. 

I wish my dBPDw would try to control me with sex.    I don't get the totally disengaged/disconnected feeling that has been described by some on my once or twice a month ration of sex, but she's not much into kissing... .never has been. I think I find that less odd than I used to now, but that's probably because I've simply gotten used to it. She does tend to want to rush through it most of the time... .I think it's a real shame, personally, because she is missing out on something that she is incapable of fully understanding and enjoying.


More back to the original topic though... .It may be splitting hairs, but I feel more like my dBPDw "controls sex" more than she "controls me with sex." There is a bit of a distinction here. I no longer attempt to initiate because she got to a point where 99% of the time I got a "no way!" response. I still don't fully understand what triggered the change, but it wasn't always this way... .In any event, I have accepted it for what it is, and it seems to be at least somewhat consistent with  the experience of a lot of non's.

[kiikii]

   " I was only with my ex one year, but sex is THE ONE area where there were no problems... .it was definitely one of the, if not the best part of the relationship smiley My ex never really had any outward issues with intimacy, although I believe he was doing what he thought he was supposed to do (as far as intimacy outside the bedroom), all the while seething on the inside until it all escaped in his final rage incident.

I can honestly say I have no complaints about the sex and quite honestly, I'm glad I remember a thing or two or 20 to take with me into another r/s should I choose to enter into one."

   

   Same here. I was with my ex over a year and the sex was still good when I was leaving him because I was still in the " seduction phase ". But if I stay longer, I don't think my r/s would be different from the other posts here.

[HardDaysNight]

CodependentHusband,

  My experience is similiar to yours.  My BPD/NPD wife has always been insecure about sex.  I figured it would get better as we spent more time together, like all my prior relationships.  No doing.  I realize now as we became more intimate as in being in each others lives and having kids it made her more insecure.  A shame because we both are still in great shape and there is not physical reason it wouldn't be great.

 

[sm15000]

I used to think that as soon as we got emotionally closer & the more infrequent sex was, that it had to do with his unspoken hatred for women (i.e. his mom)

I'm guessing but i think there was definitely an unspoken hatred for women thing with my ex. . .when he felt engulfment/fear of abandonment our sex life although didn't stop - changed.  Because basically then he cheats. . .it became less intimate, more 'porn' like because i think he uses it more. . .and he becomes more brash and objectifies women more. . .but whatever BPD stage they are going through, it always plays out in the bedroom 

[Pou]

Codependenthusband ... .funny that you said you wish your ex would control using sex.  But your ex did control you with sex ... what she did was giving you plenty in the beginning and then stoped just to make you do what she wants you to do once you guys progress to the next stage in your relationship.  With a NPD or BPD, sex is becoming a power control bargain chip.  It is mechanical and the less attachement they have with it, the better for them (feeling safe)... .I think it may have to do with their earlier negative experience with sex ... .it could be some type of trauma or had an early childhood dysfunctional sexual experience ... .which led them to detach the feeling of love from sex.  In any event, it is something that you and I can not understand ... .and because BPDs/NPDs are unable to share and communicate their negative experiences with you and me (not even the psychiatrists in most cases) ... .this abnormality stays with them for life and they will keep hurting people who want to get close to them to forge a relationship.  Basically, unless something miraculous happens ... .it is almost impossible for them to fix that abnormal dissociation (between love and sex).  If you try, they feel threatened and because they usually have above average intelligence, you will find yourself being attacked and abused and feeling like a sucker for trying to be a good partner.  I find out first hand that the kindness you give to these BPDs and NPDs, they perceive them as threats and instead of appreciate, they devalue your kind acts and you as a person, and they will dog you badly.  Unfotunately, acting cool and cold won't work either ... .because when you do that, they feel safe and feel detached and so they are fine with them.  In essence, my experience taught me that this is really a no win situation ... .but if you act as if you do depend on them (sexually) and won't question them when they treat you like sht to push you away, then they will leave you alone with other things and won't have the urge to devaluate you (since they thought they have already done so by rejecting you).  Pretty mess up ... .and I have learned alot in past couple years about my wife ... .but I am still learning.  I got two precious kids and right now, I am forced to understand her in order to deal with her intelligently.  I don't get angry or upset any more ever since I realize that she is a NPD.  But I am unable to stop her from prjecting lies into our daily lives ... she does it to insert control by twisting reality.  The more I try to intellectualize my relationship with her, the more I am willing to let go the fantasy of having a loving wife and accept that I simply don't have that and get over it ... at least for now.   Good luck with you and to everyone on this forum.  I know I need lots of it.

[CodependentHusband]

Codependenthusband ... .funny that you said you wish your ex would control using sex.  But your ex did control you with sex ... what she did was giving you plenty in the beginning and then stoped just to make you do what she wants you to do once you guys progress to the next stage in your relationship.  With a NPD or BPD, sex is becoming a power control bargain chip.  It is mechanical and the less attachement they have with it, the better for them (feeling safe)... .I think it may have to do with their earlier negative experience with sex ... .it could be some type of trauma or had an early childhood dysfunctional sexual experience ... .which led them to detach the feeling of love from sex.  In any event, it is something that you and I can not understand ... .and because BPDs/NPDs are unable to share and communicate their negative experiences with you and me (not even the psychiatrists in most cases) ... .this abnormality stays with them for life and they will keep hurting people who want to get close to them to forge a relationship.  Basically, unless something miraculous happens ... .it is almost impossible for them to fix that abnormal dissociation (between love and sex).  If you try, they feel threatened and because they usually have above average intelligence, you will find yourself being attacked and abused and feeling like a sucker for trying to be a good partner.  I find out first hand that the kindness you give to these BPDs and NPDs, they perceive them as threats and instead of appreciate, they devalue your kind acts and you as a person, and they will dog you badly.  Unfotunately, acting cool and cold won't work either ... .because when you do that, they feel safe and feel detached and so they are fine with them.  In essence, my experience taught me that this is really a no win situation ... .but if you act as if you do depend on them (sexually) and won't question them when they treat you like sht to push you away, then they will leave you alone with other things and won't have the urge to devaluate you (since they thought they have already done so by rejecting you).  Pretty mess up ... .and I have learned alot in past couple years about my wife ... .but I am still learning.  I got two precious kids and right now, I am forced to understand her in order to deal with her intelligently.  I don't get angry or upset any more ever since I realize that she is a NPD.  But I am unable to stop her from prjecting lies into our daily lives ... she does it to insert control by twisting reality.  The more I try to intellectualize my relationship with her, the more I am willing to let go the fantasy of having a loving wife and accept that I simply don't have that and get over it ... at least for now.   Good luck with you and to everyone on this forum.  I know I need lots of it.

Pou,

    Actually, most of what you say rings very true with me. I was really joking about the stereotypical type of bargaining for sex, which doesn't seem to exist in my marriage. Like you, I have gotten to a stage where I don't really let it bother me... .Yes, she has some strong N traits as well. My mind is always apt to change, but I have found that I love my wife unconditionally. I know that it is a very dysfunctional r/s, but I'm doing the best that I can with helping to keep the dysfunction in how she loves me, instead of my adding to the mix. Ultimately, it is lonely loving someone who is unable to love you back in a way that you deserve, isn't it? One thing I haven't found with my wife that I see discussed frequentkly on these boards is that she doesn't seem to be a cheater. I wonder how many BPD wives with this aversion to sex are also typically cheaters?

[Zibbiddy]

So glad I found  this thread! Sex used to be about once or twice a week but in the last few months it feels like he uses it to have some sort of power over me. I have to "book in" and "remind" him not to masturbate during the day so we can have sex and he acts like he's doing me a favour - it's SUCH a huge effort. And any little excuse will be used not to go through with it.

For instance, I was looking for book recommendations on my ebook, books like Bridget Jones, and a comedy book called "How to be Single" came up on the screen.  So naturally I started looking through the list of book recommendations attached to this book, he saw the title on the computer screen and started screaming at me like a maniac. I wanted to be single! No sex for me. I pointed out that it was just the title of a book that came up in recommendations but he was angry, rolled over and went to sleep.

Frankly, he's a dickhead and I'm over him.

It's been more than 6 years. I moved out last weekend. He says he's going to get help, has for years, but it never happens.

[apollotech]

But why was it not a problem before marriage? In my case, after moving in and eventually getting engaged?

Sailskier,

What you described sounds an awful lot like an engulfment issue on his behalf, which can be triggered by intimacy. Before the marriage he could always leave and regain his emotions; however, after the marriage he could no longer do that, so he avoids the intimacy which triggers the engulfment. What you are describing is a fairly common theme on these boards.

[vortex of confusion]

I can raise my hand and say that my ex was not much in the sex department with ME yet claimed to be a sex addict. Talk about feeling really, really confused. He was a sex addict yet wouldn't initiate with his own wife.

On our wedding night, he chose to watch PPV porn instead of being with me. On our first morning in our apartment together, I woke up to him looking at porn and pleasuring himself. When I said something to him, he brushed it off as, "I didn't want to wake you up. You were sleeping so peacefully." So, my concerns were dismissed as he was being nice to me and was looking out for me and my sleep. Forget that I begged him to wake me up for years to no avail.

If I wanted to be intimate with my husband, I had to initiate and do all of the work. It was really confusing because if I didn't initiate and take care of him then he would be a jerk because he wasn't getting any. In the last several years of the relationship, things went really downhill. The only way he could get excited enough to be with me was if fantasy was involved. He could get excited over the thought of me with another man but he couldn't get excited if I told him that I didn't want any fantasy and that I wanted my husband to be with me and just me without any of the other crap. It didn't work. His equipment would NOT work if I didn't indulge in his fantasy.

And, after 15 years of marriage, he told me that he was bisexual and wanted to be with another man.

Talk about feeling confused. I was with a sex addict that couldn't have sex with me. It hurt like heck to hear him tell other women things like "My wife won't have sex with me any more." Um, that is a load of crap because it had only been a couple of days. And, of course, he was telling ME that I wanted it too much and that his performance problems were because he couldn't keep up with me. I wanted too much sex yet he was the sex addict.

I think he lost interest in sex after getting married because he couldn't time his self pleasuring activities. Before we got married, we would see each other on the weekends so he could prepare to be with me. After marriage, I was wanting him to be with me on a daily basis. The problem is that he enjoyed his own company more than he did mine, which was very confusing for me because the two guys that I was with physically before my husband were quite complimentary. Of course, ex told me that I was impossible to please so why should he even try. Funny thing is that the guy I dated after him had zero problems with that.

I will never forget the time that I deliberately went out seeking the advice of guys to find out how to get ex interested. These guys were making suggestions and recommendations of how to get my husband interested. I would tell them, "Yep. I did that." and then I proceeded to tell them some of the other stuff that I tried to no avail. I don't know how many of them told me that he was the problem, not me. Any man that was even remotely normal would have responded to the stuff that I tried to do to get my ex interested and checked back in.