couldn't have sex

[Applehead]

It was 4 years ago not my current exBPDgf but the one before I dated for 7 years.  The last 6 months of the r/s I couldn't sleep with her and its one of the main reasons we broke up.  We were intimate all the time before that!  The push/pull and other BP stuff was so great and had such an effect on me bc I loved her so much that over time I subconsciously knew that every time I got close to her she would do something to hurt me.  I started to also notice that when we were intimate that she appeared to be mentally out of her body looking at us and seeing how she was using it to control me!  Her eyes just had a empty look, looking back at me.  It was Glenn Close like(The Woman) and it freaked me out and it bc impossible to ignore!  I think pull back was my brains way of protecting me.  Trust me, I always want sex!  Thats how bad a BPD can break you down over time!

[truly amazed]

Hi applehead,

Yep similar ... .had seriosu sleeping issues near the end. The constant push pull as you said. The rage episodes which never ended ... .

I didn't have your problem with sex ... .but the sleep rang a bell.

As to sex ... .I do wonder if that is all the RS was ever about she wanted it and once a day was not enough even 5 times ... .all pretty sick looking back   

[Applehead]

Truely Amazed, That was her weapon/compulsion and every bit of her as a bottle wine.  Everything was about sex!  We couldn't even cuddle in bed 1 night with sex or she would sigh and turn over mad with an attitude.  The crazy part was that her family on both sides were from Sweden and she had the total Swedish look with the blond hair, blue eyes and had the best surgeon enhance her perfectly.  She was 5'5" and 112 lb.  Everything was pretty bad to counter all that!  The first 6.5 years were over the top!  If it seems to good to be true it is. 

[HostNoMore]

I think there are two types of men out there. 

Those who can function sexually with all the baggage from the dysfunctional relationship without any issues or care at all.  As for my self, the constant push/pull affected my desire at a very low level. I had to expend tremendous energy brainwashing my self to get the functionality back again.  Then she'd pull some BPD BS right as I got to functioning back to super stud level to pull the rug out from under me again.

I believe in my case, it was a protection mechanism as my subconscious knew something was majorly off with this sorry BPD wench.

Totally normal reaction to these freaks of nature.  It is for the best and a self protection mechanism.

[2010]

Well there’s allot of splitting on this thread and that’s understandable as you’re angry, but sooner or later you’re going to have to let go of your gender issues and reach acceptance of the disorder. The disorder does not discriminate between the sexes. It is a thought disorder and it is not done to you personally.

Borderlines use sex as a sacrificial offering of themselves. They do that in order to feel valued and they do that in order to secure an attachment. Being valued in this way makes them feel good about themselves because they cannot feel good on their own. Borderline personality is a part time self.

They are not whole, and they seek out others to feel good. They go by what the mirrored “other” values. If a Borderline can offer you sex in exchange for value- then they can assure an attachment. Whatever the value is that is decided, it’s done as though it’s a life or death situation in order to please. Some posters have called this “porn star sex.” It is fantasy based and unrealistic. It is also lacking in true intimacy.

Unfortunately, it’s also a self defeating prophecy. Since the act of offering themselves to elicit praise or value is fantasy driven, it is not a long term, realistic solution to their emptiness. This also makes them feel captive in bondage- feeling as though sex is required of them for security. They soon go on strike. Borderline personality disorder is a persecution complex. You are now a persecutor and Borderlines do not mate in captivity.

They do feel primitive rage because of this. You are now no different than their primary caregivers. This rage may be unseen by you, but it is felt very deeply by the Borderline. At this point, you are no longer rewarding, you are now punishing.

Borderlines can often lead a partner to spank, gag or become physically dominant to their contrasting submissiveness. They will skew their ideas of reference toward you as punishment in order to feed the persecution complex. This is the- I hate you, don’t leave me swing of the pendulum. They are slaves.

Eventually this becomes too much to handle and the Borderline shuts down. This is called “engulfment.” Engulfment means master/slave persecution. The attachment is now completely split into bad and the Borderline feels bad. You are no longer rewarding. It also means that you are not to be trusted as a friend, ally or even loved one and there will be an escape. The fear of abandonment is no longer an issue- the fear of engulfment is. The Borderline fears engulfment more than abandonment at this point and they begin the search for a new attachment.

[34broken]

2010. An interesting take for sure.

Let me ask you this. XgfwBPD and I could never fit sexually. Is it conceivable that in addition to losing patience that since she could not get what she needed from me, I could not make her feel good so she devalued and subsequently left me when another guy showed interest? Literally in a span of 10 days? She kept talking of not being able to 'connect' with me... .she felt 'disconnected'... .when the prev 2 mos I was the best bf ever... .and could do no wrong. She seemed to infer that I needed to provide her the big O ... .when she manually achieved it she seemed less satisfied... .fulfilled... .or maybe this is not a symptom of BPD but overall closeness that females need to achieve intimacy... .which is weird in a BPD because they would freak out wouldnt they... .any non females on the board care to comment... .Its embarassing because,  the doc dx is impotence and the little blue pill rarely worked right. Also, she seemed upset that she was unable to please me... .when I really just got excited by being with her and enjoying FP.

I apologize if this is graphic... .but this is one of the biggest hurdles I have to get over because of her... .  2 mos of being loving and patient... in the 3rd month crying that she just.wants a good F. Then she leaves me for another dude... fell out of love in 10 days... .please tell me this is all BPD related and not indicative of most women. So depressing.

[2010]

please tell me this is all BPD related and not indicative of most women.

You’re going to have to let go of these gender issues to reach acceptance of the disorder. This wasn't done to you because she was unsatisfied. You've got to think like a Borderline. The disorder was already in play before you started to see each other, so let yourself off the hook.

she seemed upset that she was unable to please me

Exactly. She seemed upset that she was unable to please you. (This is an important concept to understand.) If she cannot please you then this means she is defective. Imagine having nothing else to prove your worthiness than this- you would panic and seek out someone to validate you. The Borderline psyche does not allow for self soothing. Nor does it allow for impulse control or delayed gratification- because these would get in the way of immediate FEELING badly. Borderlines cannot understand true intimacy because true intimacy involves consistency and trust that anything is possible in love. True intimacy is deep. Borderline feelings are shallow.

Since they struggle with all or none thinking, you are either good or you are bad, but never in between. You are also a moving target to them.  This moving target means that they think that you are disappointed and withdrawing from them, and also that the attachment is bad.  Since the attachment is fusional, that means they are bad as well. (If she cannot please you then this means she is defective.) While you are thinking that the two of you are bound together by some form of comfort and intimacy, the Borderline believes that the future of this fusional attachment is pain, due to the insecure attachment. This is a self defeating disorder, because Borderlines understand and expect scapegoating.

According to James F. Masterson, parental scapegoating adds on to the Borderline’s failure to detach and learn the necessary *adaptive skills* to free themselves from “me-but not me” bondage. Their frustration at not being able to free themselves turns inwardly directed and results in “generally some form of sado-masochistic sexual adaptation, which reflects the earlier level of aggression and conflict.”  (Pg. 135 The Narcissistic and Borderline Disorders. )

As a result this, they have created mirrored "identities" as coping mechanisms. Sex has been taught to be a choreographed pattern of valuation with subjugation fantasies.  It is also a persecutorial response to their own part time objectification (which is the nullification of their wholly emerging self.)  

They do not know how to exist as an independent Human. They must rely on feedback and they build upon feedback through failed attachments. They take bits and pieces of former attachments and try to build a self that's valued by others.

Sexually, this means being a dominant submissive in the beginning of the attachment (as a evaluation of worthiness) and then being a dominated submissive (acted upon) during the hating phase. Internally, they feel persecuted and scapegoated if they fail to submit which allows for the Borderline perceptions of self defeat and the subjugation prophecy to come true.

Borderlines will serve, to the extent of which they allow themselves to be controlled by their own distorted perceptions. They submit in order to attach but then shake that attachment. They will then want to be punished (dominated) and they will usually work this out sexually. The disorder is about persecution. If you fail to play the part of the persecutor, you will be accused of being one anyway. Then they go off in a panic to seek out someone to validate them. And the cycle continues... .only to fall apart again. This is a serious disorder.

The disorder is about blame. It usually leaves the partner with guilt. This means that you are not alone (there are many people with similar stories) and the outcome was not in your hands. The distorted perception was not caused by you. You did not cause it. Neither could you control nor cure it.

[Applehead]

2010, Thanks for your input.  I enjoy reading all of your posts and I have learned a lot from you and several years ago Howzah.  I wish he would make some guest appearances!  From a nons perspective I didn't want her to have the control over me and when we were broken up some of my friends couldn't believe that I didn't swoop in for sex bc she through her self at me whenever we were together.  She was usually drunk and would actually beg for it but I knew bc I loved her I would be right back in the same mess again.  I just didn't have the urge, I was never experiencing any kind of erectile disfunction.  Everything is 100% about them bc they can't be black for long and need you to feel good and you're the scapegoat after the r/s bc they can't deal with all the hurt they've inflicted on us and have to blacken us bc they can't hold onto it.  It's not human nature for us nons to look at this through the BPD perspective bc our brain keeps looking at it like a normal r/s and we have to then apply this psychological template over our reflecting back upon it to understand the dynamics of what happen to us for healing and closure.  The ramifications from being involved with a BP is mind-boggling.   

[Eightyfour]

Is your BPD also into taking pictures and films?

Mine has made many many many pics of me naked, or we having sex, and wanted me to film her while she gave me head.

She later showed those films to a friend of hers.

She also showed me films and pics of her with her ex's.

Quite sick in retrospect. But I was still in the "~buddy" stage then.

[PDQuick]

You know Applehead, the dynamics that happens in these relationships aren't as simple as you think they are. But, once you understand them, they really aren't all that complicated either.

We all have our first priorities in life. For some, it is financial security. For some, it is love. For others, it is different from day to day, depending upon our needs at the time. Or, should I say, our perceived needs.

You have to look deeper than what is on the surface. Can you do that in your own situation? Go ahead, look at these two relationships, and tell me what needs you were trying to get met, and what needs were they trying to get met? What were the priorities in all of you?

[Applehead]

PDQuick, They're trying to feed off us for happiness, fear of being alone, to stop looking within and feeling bad and to feel complete.  Once they realize that we can't make them feel complete forever they paint us black and shame us so they can split themselves white and us black.  Everything a BP does is about them and not us, were just a warm body and soul they need to use for a while.  I admit I have trouble here bc I feel shame and guilt and blame myself and try to figure out what I could of done better to make things work.  They blame me and I blame me even if I know they're crazy and projecting/throwing up on me!  I love to reason and use my verbal skills bc I'm in sales and I get frustrated bc you can't reason with them regardless of how logical and articulate you are.  I need to not stress about things I can't control but that exactly what I stress about!  I'm a Alpha male too! 

I'm looking for partner, a best friend, lover and someone that I can share life with.  I have been fine spending time alone and really appreciate my alone time but I enjoy being with people also.  It's usually several years for me between serious r/s bc I need time to heal and I'm very picky about who I want to share my time with.  I never go from r/s to r/s.  I guess dating very attractive women feeds my ego and competitiveness also.  I believe that sex is fun, helps you become closer to your partner but it also feeds the ego and is power to males.  I guess bc of my Dad being busy growing up sports, attractive women, being well read and politically astute, having muscles(Not steroid look) and doing well at sales makes me feel worthy and good about myself.  Because my Mom always cared what people thought I guess I want to maintain a successful image.  I'm a very deep person also and care about how I treat people and I'm protective over people and my dog that  I love.  I enjoy helping someone I care about and it hurts when they don't appreciate it!  As soon as someone I care about accuses me of something even if its not true I try to fix it and make things better bc I like peace and happiness.  I think I could do anything and fix anything with charm or intelligence and bc of ADHD I make decisions off of gut feeling.  I will analyze things and not let something go until I figure it out.  I might not solve it in an hour or even a day but I can't let it go until I've figured out.  I try to consider others points of view even if I don't agree with it.  I can notice things and I'm very perceptive when something is off like a borderline and I read into things and gestures and pick up on things other don't.  If someone talks down to me, disrespects or embarrasses me I will bc nasty/belligerent.  I smile a lot and I'm easy going, down to earth,very loyal,  fun loving and have a great sense of humor.  I don't like confrontation unless I have no other choice.

What I'm I missing PDQuick and 2010?       

[PDQuick]

I know you're trying to understand, and that is the best thing you can do for yourself, not me, or 2010, or even Howzah.

Breathe Brother, this is all going to be OK, I promise. I sense a little bit, if not more, of frustration. Maybe I'm taking it the wrong way. If so, I apologize.

The reason I asked about the dynamics of your relationship is because I am going to try to give you a different way of looking at what you already see. I know when I came here, I was so hurt and confused, and 100% ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that what I was looking at, was what it was. It turned out that my way of viewing these things were clouded.

I always say that there are no rights, or wrongs. There is just right for me, and wrong for me. Applehead, there are no rights or wrongs here. Always feel free to tell us how you feel, or what you see.

So, tell me about how you saw these relationships. Lets get into your feelings, and your perceptions.

 

[CVA]

Ditto,, same here,, hollow look, and I could and did not desire to get close as I knew it would cause me hurt...

[HostNoMore]

Where shall I begin... .

The hollow look, the fact that it was all about her, the cheating, the talking about other guys, the inappropriate things coming from her mouth, the push/pull and general craziness led to an exponential loss in my desire for her.

No, none of you are alone.  I think this is a protection mechanism where your higher brain interrupts your sexual ability to protect you from attaching to these moon bats.

[Applehead]

I was feeling like she was using sex to control me and it was just way to important for her in a sick kinda way!  I love sex too but my love for her went deeper than just sex.  I wanted to talk out our issues like mature adults and come to a understanding and compromise to improve our r/s.  It really ticked me off that she was so basic and primitive and made me feel that it wasn't about me at all and I was just a boy toy to satisfy her needs and nothing else.  Love is much deeper than that to me and it is very important that a person I love is also my best friend, not only was she not my best friend but I didn't trust her at all.  She told me she never loved her 2nd H and the only reason she married him was bc she got caught cheating on her first H with him and she had nowhere to go.  Which was bs bc her family has plenty of money and they love her.  I bring this up bc when times were good I caught her several times talking with him behind my back even though she told me she never loved and wasn't attracted to him at all.  She divorced him and then was still talking to him.  Then she kept pushing me hard for marriage and I knew that she didn't want to marry me bc I was the love of her life but bc she just wanted to get married.  I'm not going to marry someone whether I love them or not if I have that feeling.  Plus, nothing ever showed me that she learned anything from her 2 previous marriages.  She was going to make the same mistakes and follow the same pattern over and over again.  She once told me when we were riding in the car that if I didn't F her then she would find someone who would!   From that point forward I turned on her and things when south.  It was turning point for me and conformation that I was correct about her.  I will not let someone control me like that and it made me realize that she didn't love me at all regardless of how many times she cried in Waif fashion telling me that she loved me way more than I loved her!  I was protecting myself from her bc I knew having sex with her was pulling me in deeper and clouding my judgement.

[notalittleteapot]

I had a similar thing happen toward my ex during the last year or so of our r/s. I wasn't even attracted to her any more. Whenever it looked like I was going to be demanded to be on the "giving" end of sex I'd actually have a panic attack. Being on the receiving end took a little longer for me to hate, because she was really good at it and seemed to enjoy herself - but eventually used it as emotional blackmail material, to demand that I f* her. She hated me because I wouldn't give her sex - but since I loved her, and wanted to please her, I'd want to do it exactly as she liked - but asking her what she wanted would trigger tears and rages, since she hated herself and didn't think she deserved to have what she wanted. That's some conditioning right there. No wonder I started having panic attacks. Behaving pathologically seemed to be one of the only actions I could take that would not ALWAYS result in being raged at.

Basically it seemed that the only good and fulfilling sex she could have, then, was with someone who didn't care about her at all! She spoke longingly of this type of sex for the last year and a half of the r/s. Perhaps because it doesn't challenge her core belief that she was unworthy, so it didn't make her uncomfortable.

I'm so, so glad I don't have to negotiate that minefield anymore.

[tbone1689]

2010,

You're post really hit home with me and my situation as have others of yours in the past.

Is there a way to see the posts of a specific member so I can do some more reading?  I always come away feeling a light bulb has been switched on after reading.

Thanks for the support!

[PDQuick]

PDQuick, They're trying to feed off us for happiness, fear of being alone, to stop looking within and feeling bad and to feel complete.  Once they realize that we can't make them feel complete forever they paint us black and shame us so they can split themselves white and us black.  Everything a BP does is about them and not us, were just a warm body and soul they need to use for a while.  I admit I have trouble here bc I feel shame and guilt and blame myself and try to figure out what I could of done better to make things work.  They blame me and I blame me even if I know they're crazy and projecting/throwing up on me!  I love to reason and use my verbal skills bc I'm in sales and I get frustrated bc you can't reason with them regardless of how logical and articulate you are.  I need to not stress about things I can't control but that exactly what I stress about!  I'm a Alpha male too! 

2010 gave you a nice look into her, and her disordered mind. I think we can all agree here, that there is no changing her, in the now, or in the past. It is up to her to change herself in the future. Being that this relationship is effectively over, we shall hope that she does better for herself, and wish her a fond farewell. (I am saying this literally for the sake of this conversation.) Now, Applehead is here, and he is seeking help. Applehead, we can talk to you, and get your feelings, and your perceptions, and your history, first hand, without the cloudy haze of speculating anyones feelings, intentions, motives, or thoughts. We can get all of these from you, as fact, as far as you can remember. Wouldn't you agree to that?

I think we can also agree that any talk of her feelings, or her intent, or anything like that, would be just speculation, flavored by your interaction with her. That is why we have bid her farewell in this conversation. We want facts, and feelings from the source that wants to be helped. 

I put in bold the feelings you have. They didn't have anything to do with her. They are yours, and you have owned them by vocalizing them.

You have shame and guilt, and blame yourself because you think that you could have done something different to have made this work. That's indeed very interesting. Couple that with the fact that you know that you shouldn't stress about things you can't control, yet you stress anyway, you show a desire to first, manipulate her, and the relationship, and as well, control her and the relationship. Look for it, it is there. You think that you could have done something, or have said something different to have saved her, or the relationship. Would those thoughts have been anything other than what your true self would have thought? Or would you have gone against your own thoughts, and said an untruth, just to save it? Answer honestly Applehead, you're dealing with someone who already knows the answer to this from experience. Also, in knowing that you can't control anything having to do with her, you are stressing because your emotions are showing your desire to do just that. Is this making sense to you yet?

Now, lets take a look at what you had to say in the next paragraph. These are you words, and they have very admirable traits to them Applehead, but there is a downside that is keeping you stuck, and wanting this relationship.

I guess dating very attractive women feeds my ego and competitiveness also.

The first thing you say is how your ego is lifted by dating attractive women, and competitiveness. By competitiveness, I am only led to believe that you mean winning in competitive sports, or contests. Ego's aren't contests Applehead. Ego's are a measure of how we feel about ourselves as a whole. They are our basic baseline of how we rate ourselves as people, built upon our own praises of our good qualities, our own value of our own self worth, and our acceptance and peace with our flaws. These things can't be lifted by the presence of a pretty face, or the ability to beat someone else in a game or contest.

 

I believe that sex is fun, helps you become closer to your partner but it also feeds the ego and is power to males.

Sex is fun, and it does help you gain closeness to your partner. What it can't do, is change your opinion of yourself. It will make you feel good, but it won't change your opinions of yourself. That is solely yours to do, based on you, not your abilities.

 

I guess bc of my Dad being busy growing up sports, attractive women, being well read and politically astute, having muscles(Not steroid look) and doing well at sales makes me feel worthy and good about myself. 

Maybe you are doing these things to gain feedback from others, to bolster your own view of yourself, hoping to gain a good view of yourself. It doesn't quite work that way with self esteem. Self esteem is generated from within. It isn't fed form outside.

Because my Mom always cared what people thought I guess I want to maintain a successful image. 

And here we have it. Caring more about other peoples perceptions, versus your own perception of yourself. You will maintain a successful outside image to others, both mentally and physically, by sacrificing your own self to play up to those goals. It is kinda common, and something I did.

I'm a very deep person also and care about how I treat people and I'm protective over people and my dog that  I love.  I enjoy helping someone I care about and it hurts when they don't appreciate it! 

A healthy exchange of giving is the selfless gift of something, without an expectation of reciprocation. But, when you tie your gift to a return, simply to help bolster your own opinion, through another's eyes, this is a red flag. Can you see this Applehead?

As soon as someone I care about accuses me of something even if its not true I try to fix it and make things better bc I like peace and happiness.  I think I could do anything and fix anything with charm or intelligence and bc of ADHD I make decisions off of gut feeling. 

Now, if you had a strong sense of yourself, and you loved and respected yourself, why would you argue with someone, or try to convince them that their opinion of you is wrong? You tell yourself that you do this for peace and happiness, but in all reality, you value their perception of you more than your own perception of you. If I came to you and said that the sky was yellow, you would just dismiss me, because you stand firm in your perception that the sky is blue. You would think, "That PDQ guy is whacked!"

If someone talks down to me, disrespects or embarrasses me I will bc nasty/belligerent. 

As much as you strive to get people to think well of you, I imagine that you do get upset when someone tries to feed you invalidating information about yourself. That is a fragile blow to an already damaged self esteem. This is what happens when you tie your own view of yourself to others view.


We all have our own coping mechanisms. One of them I have used, was to deceive myself, so I didn't have to face myself. I also distracted myself of my own faults, by immersing myself in other peoples problems. I also used the guise of being helpful, or being a good person. Yet, in the end, everyone seemed to get everything they needed, but somehow, I didn't. That lead me to believe that I wasn't worthy, and kept me drawn in, and I continued my relentless pursuit to gain my value through good deeds, and the opinions of others. Sound familiar anyone?

These relationships, as bad as they were, all have one thing in common. We all felt like we were kings of the world for a time. We finally felt like someone understood who we were, and shared our own views of who we were. The trouble is, because of the disorder, this was overinflated, and because of the disorder, this was short lived.

We spent so much time, emotion, and energy, trying to bring back that love we felt. We tried everything, like you stated above, to prove ourselves worthy, and change their opinions of us, so that they matched our own need to have our self esteem fed.

The Dance

Looking back on the memory of

The dance we shared 'neath the stars above

For a moment all the world was right

How could I have known that you'd ever say goodbye

And now I'm glad I didn't know

The way it all would end the way it all would go

Our lives are better left to chance I could have missed the pain

But I'd have had to miss the dance

Kinda creepy, even for me. 


Applehead, let me tell you, a healthy relationship is two people, emotionally healthy, with self esteems intact, getting together, and sharing their own internal happiness with each other, each enhancing each others lives.

The reality of these relationships are this. Two dysfunctional people, getting together, trying to use each other to facilitate happiness for themselves.


One thing that I have learned in this process is this. When I was with my ex, I had many problems that I was unaware of, dating back to my upbringing. I thought I could induce my happiness through her. I found a feeling that I called love, through her over inflated praise and view of me at the beginning. I fell into love with that feeling, and called it love for her, because I tied that feeling to her, making her responsible for my own feelings. As she drifted south, I held on, and did everything I could do, to include selling my own soul down the river, to attain that feeling again. I said I was loving her, but what I was really doing, was struggling to get back to that feeling that I loved so much when she painted me white. When she and I broke up for the last time, I was devastated. I sought help in the form of this board, and a therapist.

I never "loved" this woman. I loved the way she made me feel. She was the key that unlocked my own feelings. I was feeding myself off of her view of me. I tied my own feeling of love to her, and thought she was the only one that could give it to me. Now I know different.

I went through the process of letting go of my codependency, and I started healing my own self esteem. Now, I understand that love is my own feeling, and I give it to myself. Although I am still learning, I better understand the characteristics, and the dynamics of a healthy, happy person, and how each person ties into a healthy happy relationship. I no longer value other people's opinion of me over my own. I no longer seek my feelings in others, and make them responsible for them, and in turn, I don't allow others, to try to seek their feelings through me.

Are you seeing you in any of this Applehead?

[PDQuick]

WhiteDoe, I am going to say this to you before I go to bed, and then will write more tomorrow.

I can’t imagine ever feeling that way again, PDQ?

I don't have to know you, and I don't have to see your face.

I don't have to hear the sound of your voice. I don't have to share your space.

I see your heart up on your sleeve, and the teardrop in your eye

I do know what you are going through, I can even tell you why:

You, WhiteDoe, are a lovable human being! You are a beautiful woman!

52 is just a number. I promise you, that if you learn to fill the voids in yourself, with yourself, that you used the love from your ex to fill, you will feel a love like no one is capable to surpass. No one can love you like you can.

When you love yourself for who you are, and accept yourself lovingly, even with all of your faults, you will see that your statement is false.

It is only then, that you will find your true love, and then, you can find someone else who sees you for the remarkable person that you know you are, and you two can share your lives, admiring each other.

You are a beauty, and I cant wait till you can tell me that you know, and that you don't need me to tell you that.  

[Cardinals in Flight]

PDQ, I know that was to Whitedoe, but it made my eyes leak  :'( :'(

I see a lot of me in her... .

thank you

[34broken]

Pd quick and 2010... .thx as always for your insight. Excellent stuff.  And whitedoe... .youll find your white buck soon!

[Applehead]

PD,

Here is the part I do not understand, when you know what made you vulnerable to the BPD how do you apply it?  Because I know why it happen but it still doesn't help me.  Also, I just don't go out and even though I've always been a decent looking guy and I'm in great shape I just don't come across that many women in my dating range that are single and have the qualities I'm looking for.  Thats my fear is that I could and have been alone for several years before I run across another women I'm interested in having a serious r/s with.  In the past I would never sweat out women bc I was going out and women my dating where in mass supply.  Being 47 is the problem and I'm not going out all the time and most of my friends are married with kids and it seems most of them don't know anyone single to set me up with or if they do I'm not interested.  I met this past BPD on match.com and I'm not going down the road paved with PD women again.  I'm confident in Applehead but not in the supply of available single women.

[ron7127]

FWIW, I lost all attraction and desire for my XW after a time. She was very good looking. However, she was just so mean and nasty that I had no desire to have sex with her,

If you read much on this, you'll fine that many folks involved with a NPD or BPD lose their desire for intimacy.

You just cannot feel safe around them and,after all the abuse, one resents them.

[Applehead]

I went through the process of letting go of my codependency, and I started healing my own self esteem. Now, I understand that love is my own feeling, and I give it to myself. Although I am still learning, I better understand the characteristics, and the dynamics of a healthy, happy person, and how each person ties into a healthy happy relationship. I no longer value other people's opinion of me over my own. I no longer seek my feelings in others, and make them responsible for them, and in turn, I don't allow others, to try to seek their feelings through me.

Are you seeing you in any of this Applehead?



PDQuick,

You're correct that sometimes I put to much weight on others opinions.  I sometimes ponder why they don't see things as I do!  Especially when a BPD projects toxic sludge on me or when they're in the midst of a distortion campaign.  I let it bother me to much, considering its coming from someone thats delusional!  I should not let distortions or frivolous statements from Oz upset me or throw me off course emotionally or mentally.  How do I work on that PD and apply what you're teaching about myself?  I do not want another borderline sucking me dry until slurping sounds ring through my ears!  I want my neck to be bite free for eternity!  Plz provide the garlic, wooden stake and cross to me so I could keep Draculina at bay!  Someone said something about the movie, "Vampires Kiss" with Nicolas Cage and Flash Dance babe Jennifer Beals in another post, thats an oldie but goodie!  Very funny flick!

[PDQuick]

Applehead, your therapist will be able to help you with your self esteem issues. It is a process, and one I went through, but I am not really in a position to help you through it all. I am still going through it.

I had to totally relearn things, and retrain my brain in perceptions. I had to look back and reflect on why I did what I did.

Mindfulness. During these relationships, we were reacting to what we encountered. You see, we all were trying to control our own feed to our egos. When they withdrew emotionally, we tried to get them back to the way they were, that filled our voids, and unlocked our happiness. We manipulated them, and we went against our own selves to gain their affection.

That isn't how love works. But, I was too ignorant to know that.

While we were reacting to all of these situations, we weren't being mindful of our own emotions, and motives. We lose them all in the quest to fill our need of feeling like we matter. We aren't in touch with anything other than that. After the relationship is over, and we go back and see what we did, and search for the reasons of why we did that, we can really unlock our own emotions, and our own intentions. It's kind of painful to see, and understand. But, it is paramount that we do it, so that we can stop and exercise our learnings if it happens again. You can't apply a learning, if you don't learn a lesson.

The mindfulness and the learning is the garlic you want Applehead. The stake you want is your own self esteem.

If your self esteem was in tact, and you were confident in yourself, first of all, you would have dismissed this woman, and the puss/pull dynamic, because it wasn't what you want out of a relationship. With a self esteem in tact, you would know your value and worth, and you would demand its price, not squander it trying to compromise.  That is all we did with these relationships, we compromised.

We found something that made us feel good. That was the feeling of being loved at the start. We took that as a base line, because it filled the void in us, and made us feel better about ourselves. We fooled ourselves into thinking that this was the authentic them, simply because we wanted it to be true. Then when that disappeared, we took that as the disorder, and tried to get it back. Hence the split effect of seeing them as part good, and part bad, when in all reality, they were simply them. Sometimes one way, sometimes another way. They were extremely consistent in that, yet we didn't see any consistency with what we believed was the true them.

So, we compromised the first time, and gave in 50% of ourselves, to fill our own need. Then the next time, we compromised 50% again, leaving 25%. And then the next time, so forth and so on.

All for what? Because we didn't have our own good self esteem, and we relied on them to bolster it for us. This was our own void to fill, not have them fill it for us.

I did lie to myself, and deceive myself. I sold my soul to get my void filled. I thought I loved her, but in accepting her for who she really is, I didn't love her, I loved how she made me feel 10% of the time. But, the even bigger picture is, I didn't love myself, and I didn't understand what I was doing, because I was just reacting.

The antidote is the understanding. I can meet as many disordered people as I want to now, without the fear of trying to fill a void in myself, and going through the reaction stage anymore. I know what I have done, and with that, I am mindful of what I am doing.

[PDQuick]

oh, and as far as meeting people Applehead. Get that self esteem fixed, and tell me how that goes for you. I have no problem now, walking up to someone without the fear of rejection. If I do get rejected, I understand that everyone likes a flavor, and I'm just not their flavor. Lots of people like broccoli. I don't. Does that mean that broccoli is not lovable? Nope, not in the slightest.   

There are lots of women out there.

[hellnback]

Thanks PDQuick. You should write a book. Your words have helped me see again.