Is BPD an addicted gamer or internet user?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Well, he JUST went to bed. The latest in the morning that he has GONE to bed yet. He has been staying up PLAYING A VIDEO GAME until 5 am this past week. Usually stayed up until at least 2 am though he is not working and hasn't been since March. He has said that he can't eat anything for many hours before going to bed because it "bothers him" but then I stopped feeding him after 8 p.m. and so his excuse was that I "needed to get on HIS schedule" and I have a son whom I take to school and am trying personally to get back into society and my interests since I have been isolated in caring for my pwBPD for over a year now. His schedule doesn't work for me and he doesn't seem to be "flexible" enough or desirous enough to want to "be on my schedule". Our worlds are drifting farther and farther apart.

He looks at me in the few "moments" that we see each other daily . I have been spending MORE TIME OUT of the house and leaving him with the puppies while I have "me time", like today, meeting for coffee at the home of a another parent from my son's school. He gives me a sweet "good morning/good night" while I look at him, partially in unbelief and partially in great sadness thinking that "THIS is our life" and it will probably "get worse before it gets better"

We watched TWO whole tv programs together last night. He asked me, from his computer, if I was going to watch "Person of Interest" and I asked him if he was going to watch it FROM his computer or go to the family room to relax. He said that he had "a little more to do" and then he would go to the family room. I told him that when you go, I will go... .we sat, with me getting up twice to let the puppies out and then I went to bed. As I sat there, he looked over and asked accusingly "WHAT are YOU so sad about?". I respond with an "Is there anything for me to be sad about?" and he replies nothing. I sit there. Then he said "Well, you are all full of fun and sunshine" and I just shrug my shoulders... .I don't HAVE TO BE anything and I am being honest with myself; he gets the "fallout"... .I have tried to talk to him before and NOW I am not pleading to "be with him" or spend time with him or get him to the dinner table (he is eating AT his computer desk). Honestly, I think that seeing that I HAVE NO ROOM IN HIS LIFE, I don't think that I care anymore.

Just venting and asking if YOU have an ADDICTED pwBPD and if the continued addictive behavior, time without your pwBPD and their lack of acknowledgement of any problem was the MAIN reason that your relationship with a BPDer failed. I see it as being the reason and at this point, he sees no "problem" and if I say ANYTHING about it, he would defend 'his right' to play on his game. I say nothing. I share nothing. I see my life without him because for the most part, it already IS.

Hope you have a good day and if I have shared something that hits a nerve, affirms or relates to your situation, I would love to hear from you... .thanks.

[real lady]

Well, he JUST went to bed. The latest in the morning that he has GONE to bed yet. He has been staying up PLAYING A VIDEO GAME until 5 am this past week. Usually stayed up until at least 2 am though he is not working and hasn't been since March. He has said that he can't eat anything for many hours before going to bed because it "bothers him" but then I stopped feeding him after 8 p.m. and so his excuse was that I "needed to get on HIS schedule" and I have a son whom I take to school and am trying personally to get back into society and my interests since I have been isolated in caring for my pwBPD for over a year now. His schedule doesn't work for me and he doesn't seem to be "flexible" enough or desirous enough to want to "be on my schedule". Our worlds are drifting farther and farther apart.

He looks at me in the few "moments" that we see each other daily . I have been spending MORE TIME OUT of the house and leaving him with the puppies while I have "me time", like today, meeting for coffee at the home of a another parent from my son's school. He gives me a sweet "good morning/good night" while I look at him, partially in unbelief and partially in great sadness thinking that "THIS is our life" and it will probably "get worse before it gets better"

We watched TWO whole tv programs together last night. He asked me, from his computer, if I was going to watch "Person of Interest" and I asked him if he was going to watch it FROM his computer or go to the family room to relax. He said that he had "a little more to do" and then he would go to the family room. I told him that when you go, I will go... .we sat, with me getting up twice to let the puppies out and then I went to bed. As I sat there, he looked over and asked accusingly "WHAT are YOU so sad about?". I respond with an "Is there anything for me to be sad about?" and he replies nothing. I sit there. Then he said "Well, you are all full of fun and sunshine" and I just shrug my shoulders... .I don't HAVE TO BE anything and I am being honest with myself; he gets the "fallout"... .I have tried to talk to him before and NOW I am not pleading to "be with him" or spend time with him or get him to the dinner table (he is eating AT his computer desk). Honestly, I think that seeing that I HAVE NO ROOM IN HIS LIFE, I don't think that I care anymore.

Just venting and asking if YOU have an ADDICTED pwBPD and if the continued addictive behavior, time without your pwBPD and their lack of acknowledgement of any problem was the MAIN reason that your relationship with a BPDer failed. I see it as being the reason and at this point, he sees no "problem" and if I say ANYTHING about it, he would defend 'his right' to play on his game. I say nothing. I share nothing. I see my life without him because for the most part, it already IS.

Hope you have a good day and if I have shared something that hits a nerve, affirms or relates to your situation, I would love to hear from you... .thanks.

[Validation78]

Hi Lady!

I think many of us can relate to your situation. I know I do from time to time, and my answer is to ignore what pwBPD is doing and concentrate on myself. I make sure that I feel complete, and am leading the full life I want to lead. If he doesn't want to take part, you cannot control that. Sometimes you just have to accept that this isn't your stuff, it's his. If it is making you feel bad to be around the behaviors, or feeling victimized, you have the power to change it. Call a friend, go for a walk, play with the puppies, watch a movie that you want to see. Whatever it is that fills you up, do it, and take care of yourself! I know, this isn't easy, really friend, I know! It's just that no matter what you do, he isn't going to see the obsession with the computer as a problem, so let him be and who knows, maybe if he sees you living your life the way that makes you happy, he will want to join you  In any event, you will feel better!

Best Wishes,

Val78

[123Phoebe]

Hi real lady,

I'm really sorry things are so frustrating with your partner, on totally different schedules etc... . 

We watched TWO whole tv programs together last night. He asked me, from his computer, if I was going to watch "Person of Interest" and I asked him if he was going to watch it FROM his computer or go to the family room to relax. He said that he had "a little more to do" and then he would go to the family room. I told him that when you go, I will go... .we sat, with me getting up twice to let the puppies out and then I went to bed. As I sat there, he looked over and asked accusingly "WHAT are YOU so sad about?". I respond with an "Is there anything for me to be sad about?" and he replies nothing. I sit there.

From what you've shared here, there seems to be a lot of animosity, hurt feelings and frustration coming from both of you.  It's understandable, I'm by no means judging, it's just that there needs to be changes in the way the two of you communicate for things to begin to change.  And we only have control over ourselves.

He asked me, from his computer, if I was going to watch "Person of Interest"

I asked him if he was going to watch it FROM his computer or go to the family room to relax.

What if you had simply answered, "Yes"?

He said that he had "a little more to do" and then he would go to the family room. I told him that when you go, I will go... .

we sat, with me getting up twice to let the puppies out and then I went to bed.

As I sat there, he looked over and asked accusingly "WHAT are YOU so sad about?"

I respond with an "Is there anything for me to be sad about?" and he replies nothing. I sit there.

This is where honesty might have helped a lot, insinuating no blame onto him, that he's the reason for your sadness.

You - "Oh wow, thank you (for noticing); that obvious, huh?  I've been feeling sad that we haven't spent much time together/together lately; I miss our connection.  And then when we do (spend time together), I'm not sure how to handle it...   You're right, I am feeling sad.  Does this answer your question?"

Then *wait* for his response and take it from there... .

By being honest with your feelings, you're validating his feelings and observations. 

In his own way, he was reaching out to you by both wanting to watch the program together and by asking about your sadness.

Do you think this could have been handled any differently?

[real lady]

Hi Lady. It's just that no matter what you do, he isn't going to see the obsession with the computer as a problem, so let him be and who knows, maybe if he sees you living your life the way that makes you happy, he will want to join you  In any event, you will feel better.

Best Wishes,

Val78

SO TRUE... .I have been taking better care of myself; losing weight, working out, keeping myself "looking nice" and I am sure that he is wondering WHERE I go and WHOM I might be with (my son is nearly ALWAYS with me, yeah right... .) and I hope that curiosity and wanting to be WITH me would be greater than jealousy and fear of abandonment but these are again, things that I have NO control over, it is HIS stuff and he will have to deal with it.

Hi real lady,


From what you've shared here, there seems to be a lot of animosity, hurt feelings and frustration coming from both of you.  It's understandable, I'm by no means judging, it's just that there needs to be changes in the way the two of you communicate for things to begin to change.  And we only have control over ourselves.

OH I AGREE... .problem is there is NO communicating without him dysregulating; I would say that he is HIGHLY BPD.

He asked me, from his computer, if I was going to watch "Person of Interest"

I asked him if he was going to watch it FROM his computer or go to the family room to relax.

What if you had simply answered, "Yes"?

I let him know earlier in the day that I was interested in watching it. I think he was asking me if I WAS GOING TO THE FAMILY ROOM instead of staying at my computer; if I was going to sit at mine I think he would have stayed at his... .a little manipulation on his part but I let him know that I would go to the family room and hope to "watch the program with him".

As I sat there, he looked over and asked accusingly "WHAT are YOU so sad about?"

I respond with an "Is there anything for me to be sad about?" and he replies nothing. I sit there.

This is where honesty might have helped a lot, insinuating no blame onto him, that he's the reason for your sadness.

You - "Oh wow, thank you (for noticing); that obvious, huh?  I've been feeling sad that we haven't spent much time together/together lately; I miss our connection.  And then when we do (spend time together), I'm not sure how to handle it...   You're right, I am feeling sad.  Does this answer your question?"

Then *wait* for his response and take it from there... .

GREAT response... .I will remember this to VALIDATE HIS VIEW OF MY SADNESS as being "right on" and then offer the "why" without defending myself or blaming him... .

By being honest with your feelings, you're validating his feelings and observations. 

In his own way, he was reaching out to you by both wanting to watch the program together and by asking about your sadness.

Do you think this could have been handled any differently?

I like "thinking on my feet" and making this a learning opportunity for both him and I... .thank you. Yes, it could have been handled MUCH better as you have shared... .I will continue to read and "take every opportunity" I can to get the truth out there with much love and try to OPEN up lines of communication between us... .  

[123Phoebe]

Opening up the lines of communication with   is great!  There will be plenty of opportunities to do it

Hang in there real lady,

this stuff isn't easy at all, but it does get easier with time, patience and practice... .

[waverider]

Just from a guys point of view, its a gender thing to get addicted to this sort of thing BPD or not, along with golfing, fishing, hunting, shooting, fixing unfixable stuff (wow thats topical) beating all the challenges, finishing the levels, even if it makes us selfish and childish at times.

[real lady]

Hi. Thanks 123Phoebe   

Just from a guys point of view, its a gender thing to get addicted to this sort of thing BPD or not, along with golfing, fishing, hunting, shooting, fixing unfixable stuff (wow thats topical) beating all the challenges, finishing the levels, even if it makes us selfish and childish at times.

Thanks waverider (surfer?) and I agree that there is a lot of personality and gender PREFERENCE since he has ALWAYS been an avid gamer with an incredible imagination, memory and intellect... .I just see HOW MUCH MORE he seems to play, in my opinion in order to AVOID contact, emotional dysregulation and "numbness" from his pain and an "adrenaline FIX"... .like an addict... .I see GAMING to be a SUBSTANCE just as a DRUG or HABIT in order to "hide" themselves in... .it is sad because he thinks that he is "truly living" and I see him sitting there; WASTING HIS LIFE, TIME and ENERGY to PLAY a game when LIFE is waiting for him to take part... .his part, in it. SAD.

[waverider]

Hi! Thanks 123Phoebe   

Just from a guys point of view, its a gender thing to get addicted to this sort of thing BPD or not, along with golfing, fishing, hunting, shooting, fixing unfixable stuff (wow thats topical) beating all the challenges, finishing the levels, even if it makes us selfish and childish at times.

Thanks waverider (surfer?) and I agree that there is a lot of personality and gender PREFERENCE since he has ALWAYS been an avid gamer with an incredible imagination, memory and intellect... .I just see HOW MUCH MORE he seems to play, in my opinion in order to AVOID contact, emotional dysregulation and "numbness" from his pain and an "adrenaline FIX"... .like an addict... .I see GAMING to be a SUBSTANCE just as a DRUG or HABIT in order to "hide" themselves in... .it is sad because he thinks that he is "truly living" and I see him sitting there; WASTING HIS LIFE, TIME and ENERGY to PLAY a game when LIFE is waiting for him to take part... .his part, in it. SAD.

Absolutely true, I am sure many parents go through this with their kids every day. 

I find it sad too watching life pass my partner by, she gets up in the morning and sits in her dressing gown all day, opening one beer after the other, smoking one cigarette after the other, constantly complaining about how ill she is, big talking about what she is going to do, but doing nothing, not even chores, nothing.

Meanwhile life passes by, until its too late and some internal organ collapses and its all over, that's the reality and I can't stop it. 

It also pollutes the quality of life of everyone else around

You have to reach that point where you step back and accept that is their choice, and get on with your life. Maybe one day if they see how much better it would be to live your way, they may try to change, but that is up to them.

Unfortunately Real Life is not out on Xbox, or come in a 6 pack yet.                                   

[real lady]

I find it sad too watching life pass my partner by... .until its too late and some internal organ collapses and its all over, that's the reality and I can't stop it.

It is this part that has been the hardest for me to accept regarding his choices; so much potential for US to have a WONDERFUL life together. As if he has just thrown it away... .again... .

It also pollutes the quality of life of everyone else around

I am LESS willing to allow it to pollute my quality of life now... .so hard to see the decline coming and the end, inevitable.

You have to reach that point where you step back and accept that is their choice, and get on with your life.

I am already "there"... .I have accepted that it IS his choice and I have "done all that I could" to avoid our "dream come true" becoming a "nightmare"... .

Maybe one day if they see how much better it would be to live your way, they may try to change, but that is up to them.

Honestly, I don't see HOW my pwBPD COULD see things from my way; for heaven's sake he dysregulates about soup or a comment made about a movie; the most PETTY things that I can think of... .so tiring.

Unfortunately Real Life is not out on Xbox, or come in a 6 pack yet. 

 I'm sorry to hear about your BPDw's addiction and DENIAL of her problem... .different substances but the same strategy for both of them; distance from us and "numbing" their pain. That is ALL that life is for them, may have always been and it may ALWAYS be that way for them; no matter what we do, what we've done or how much we sacrifice, it is THEIR responsibility to choose TO LIVE... .We have made our choices and I am not letting go or giving up on WHAT I WANT in life... .if he does not want it, then he and I will be better and happier apart... .someday.

                               

[real lady]

Quick update: it has been 17 days since I last posted and he has CONTINUED to play ALL DAY; one day as many as 16 hours BUT I have managed to take good care of me in that time and put up a few boundaries for myself which have lessened stress due to LESS or NO expectation of behavior from him.


I make dinner and give him an ETA (estimated time of arrival) and put it on the table. Call my son to dinner and commence eating.

I have NOT taken the dogs out WHILE HE IS AT HOME... .I refuse. I am sitting down resting after being out all day with son and shopping, come home and make dinner, eat, clean the kitchen, etc... .I am usually on my feet for nearly 2 hrs and ALL THE WHILE he is playing on his video. I announce I am sitting down (I may check the dogs water and food and give them a treat, etc) but then I SIT... .if they need to go out, I don't move. I think he has learned that since it is "his time" to take care of the dogs he hasn't asked me to do so until last night. I was TIRED and ready for bed... .checked things and announced that I am going to bed... .as I pass him, heading toward the staircase, he asks me "can you take the dogs out before you go up?" I gently replied "I am too tired". (the other night he had to clean up after our youngest puppy who poohed on the floor because daddy was "TOO BUSY" to take her out; at least he OWNED HIS RESPONSIBILITY and said "you tried to tell me, I am sorry honey"... .

We have different bedtimes as you can imagine. He has STILL been coming to bed as late (early) at 6 am but this week it has been about 4 p.m. The other night he woke me by YELLING at the TV... .yes, I heard him and called down to him but he did not hear me. I looked at him and said "WHO are you talking to so loudly at this hour?" He APOLOGIZED THREE TIMES for waking me and that he was upset about something... .He talks FULL VOICE to our puppies and my son and I tiptoe to keep quiet for him while he sleeps.

I have been spending MORE TIME by myself; on my computer, out shopping (christmas time), Library, talking with friends on the phone and FB, etc... .I don't know if he SEES that we ":)ON'T HAVE A RELATIONSHIP" anymore. I commented the other night before going to bed "WELL, that's another day. (gone that is, I did not say this)... .and he didn't know what to say... .Same old thing (him on computer) EVERY DAY... .this is no sort of life to live... .

We had talked briefly about "what to do for christmas" but this was a few weeks ago. I am doing what I WANT TO DO and he asks me "what did you do all day"... .Yesterday, I made some new earrings for myself.

I feel that I am GONE emotionally because he is making NO attempt to spend time with me or my son. It is ALL ABOUT HIM, his concerns and his GAME. Poor man.

[waverider]

Has he shown this obsessive behavior about other things in the past?

[real lady]

Mainly gaming; it was the first "substance" of choice every since BEFORE I met him when he was 17.

He does not drink or do drugs and seems to think that he takes care of finances but though he obsesses over it; he can't seem to manage his bank account because of impulsive and excessive "elective" spending.

He is "out of control" with food so I "help" him with the "first helping" and he helps himself to more if he wants it, knowing that it might be "leftovers" for tomorrow if he chooses to be satisfied with a regular double portion as I give him. He shows ANGER at being limited in food, money or spending or gaming time. I don't point out his obsession with these anymore; just causes dysregulation with no productive result... .

Can't wait to hear your thoughts on it waverider... .

[waverider]

Has he ever been considered for OCD. My partner was OCD diagnosed long before BPD. I dont think she was true OCD but had a lot of the tendencies. BPD is impulsive behavior but switches rapidly. OCD tends to lock onto obsessions long term. He may have a coexisting disorder.

Gaming is a common obsession as it is zoning out into a different world they have control over and are an equal with anyone else in that world. Satisfies the stubborn need to win adrenalin rush too

My partner is similar with finances, obsessively checking bank account for every cent, believing she is a good budgeter. In reality there is no budgeting. Simply impulsive elective spending as you put it, and a total reluctance to spend on essentials. In other words if their is no impulse to spend she wont (eg bills, basic shopping). This is the complete opposite of what responsible budgeting is.

Similar with food, no regular meals or balanced diet. Just constant excessive amounts of whatever the current fad is. Even then only will eat when the hunger impulse hits, no sync at all with mealtimes. Total overall volume of food is not high, its just unbalanced, eating doesnt occur to her until the tank is empty, then it has to be filled immediately.

I deliberately leave healthy left over meals in the fridge, as she will grab these whenever it suits. Even then she wouldn't even make the effort to warm it in the microwave, as that delays feeding the impulse.

Any attempt to block impulsive behavior is treated as though you are trying threaten their very life.

It runs right through her behavior, selective all or nothing.  Comes across as swinging between stopping at nothing to satisfy an impulse, or complete lack of effort if there is no impulse to drive the action.

No plan/ arrangement/ schedule can be stuck to as a result of this.

We cant change this, even with boundaries and tools, it is too deeply ingrained in the personality, its part of the Mindfulness aspect that is taught in Therapy. You will drive yourself nuts trying to do it yourself, and any hard fought changes, will eventually revert, even if its onto a different subject

The Scorpion and Frog is a good fable that addresses this behavior

[real lady]

Has he ever been considered for OCD.

He has never been diagnosed, refuses to go to therapy. I have not thought of him as having OCD tendencies but for example, his desk: the MESS that it is, when he finds that he cannot locate something BECAUSE I MOVED THINGS AROUND and nearly dysregulates over it, I might consider that to be OCD behavior.

Gaming is a common obsession as it is zoning out into a different world they have control over and are an equal with anyone else in that world. Satisfies the stubborn need to win adrenalin rush too

He gloats HOW HE IS SUPERIOR to so many; he literally spends an average of 12 hours per day and it only is LESS THAN 15-16 hours because he has personal business that he must do; write out bills, mail them, go to a store, take dogs to the vet... .etc.

My partner is similar with finances, obsessively checking bank account for every cent, believing she is a good budgeter. In reality there is no budgeting. Simply impulsive elective spending as you put it, and a total reluctance to spend on essentials. In other words if their is no impulse to spend she wont (eg bills, basic shopping). This is the complete opposite of what responsible budgeting is.

He views BUDGET and DIET as unnecessary LIMITATIONS AND RESTRICTIONS caused to GIVE HIM GRIEF and make a slave of him.   NO self-control or self-discipline... .it is just "too hard" for him to deny himself... .so I guess that Narcissism is strong here too.

Similar with food, no regular meals or balanced diet. Just constant excessive amounts of whatever the current fad is. Even then only will eat when the hunger impulse hits, no sync at all with mealtimes. Total overall volume of food is not high, its just unbalanced, eating doesnt occur to her until the tank is empty, then it has to be filled immediately.

Well that is good that at least she follows physical body cues... .my uBPDso HAS eaten more "just to eat" but I think that he is beginning to sense body cues and asks himself if he is HUNGRY or SATISFIED and has cut down meal sizes and considered WHAT and HOW MUCH he is eating at least.

I deliberately leave healthy left over meals in the fridge, as she will grab these whenever it suits. Even then she wouldn't even make the effort to warm it in the microwave, as that delays feeding the impulse.

Mine too... .putting on a pot of coffee or heating something in the microwave takes precious time away from his gaming... .

Any attempt to block impulsive behavior is treated as though you are trying threaten their very life.

If I had said ANY THING about ANY purchase he has made for ANY reason or even made a "face" that showed that I was holding back comment he told me that I was "trying to SUCK THE JOY out of it for him". I realize that making NO comment, if he asks me if he should purchase something, I say NOTHING.

It runs right through her behavior, selective all or nothing.  Comes across as swinging between stopping at nothing to satisfy an impulse, or complete lack of effort if there is no impulse to drive the action.

This is something to really consider... .LACK of effort and LACK of holding off gratification... .interesting "duo".

No plan/ arrangement/ schedule can be stuck to as a result of this.

That's true... .

We cant change this, even with boundaries and tools, it is too deeply ingrained in the personality, its part of the Mindfulness aspect that is taught in Therapy. You will drive yourself nuts trying to do it yourself, and any hard fought changes, will eventually revert, even if its onto a different subject

The Scorpion and Frog is a good fable that addresses this behavior

I found it and posting for anyone else who may benefit from this thread.

The Scorpion and the Frog

  A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream, the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

      Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature... ."

[real lady]

***I am reading so many "worse" cases of BPD behavior during the holidays than mine but I have to say that it WAS worse last year... .at least THIS year, so far, there have been a "few" incidences of near dysregulation but something seems to tell me that he is "beginning to get it" and see that HE IS THE ONE who is having some "issues". I just let him see himself and us and post here in case anyone else has THIS issue with their BPD because I think that gaming, like any substance, is "used" to regulate his emotions, feed his self-worth, etc... .It has just been made clear to me that I DO NOT HAVE a relationship with him... .the man I love, and it is so devastating.

I asked to have a few minutes of his time to talk about   christmas   , again... .he had his headset on but took it off and SIGHED loudly as if I was bothering him and I overlooked it and we talked... ."WHAT do you want to TALK about now?" he asked. Trying to look over the obvious intimidation tactic, I SHARED what I WANTED for Christmas and asked him if he would like it, etc. I went on to say that WE HAVE A LIFE TOGETHER and WE CAN ONLY HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP by spending time together doing things that WE love to do instead of playing the game 16/24. He then angrily accused me of "trying to get him to throw his game and computer away" (extreme)... .I told him CLEARLY that I would like "for him to play on his game NO MORE THAN 5 hours a day, he could interpret and "use" that any way he wants) but I told him that I WANT to spend time with him and I am not going to "make him" spend time with me and I will not beg.

Going out today to buy cookie making items and christmas dinner, etc. Gift shopping is done (he took me to my favorite cooking store and bought a few needed items for the kitchen for me) and I told him how nice they were (I chose them too) and how much I will like using them. I also told him that I would like some perfume (personal gift) for Christmas. We will see how that goes.

Just updating, venting, adjusting my view and expectations... .he said that "EVERYTIME we talk we fight"... .and so I asked him "WHAT are we fighting about?" and he replied "When I talk, you disrespect me, interrupt me, talk over me... .(and this was brought up after I asked him to lower his voice in the car due to a splitting headache of mine, repeatedly asked him to lower his tone of voice and he took OFFENCE)... .I am to the point of cutting sentences short because HE CUTS ME OFF and seems to be glad to do so to get me to stop talking to him so he doesn't have to "hear"?

 Well, so far, THIS Christmas is looking better because I have taken BETTER CARE OF ME ... .

I hope that anyone reading this will be able to come to the place of "peace" despite our disappointments, frustrations and grief and loss of relationship with ou BPD loved one... .

I wish you ALL a VERY   MERRY CHRISTMAS  and hope and pray that this next year, 2013 will be the BEST ONE that we have had for a long time... .we deserve it... .Sending love and peace and HOPE and JOY to you and yours. 

[real lady]

He has been averaging 15 hours ON THE COMPUTER... .I am now living MY life around him and away from him when my son and I leave the house. We had an instance where I have been feeding our birds... .had told him about needing bird food and putting the LAST BITS in their dishes, when they had eaten those and NEEDED FOOD NOW and so we went to the pet store and though I had reminded him several days before and we even discussed that we needed bird food, we forgot to get it... .and then a SNOW storm came in and we did not get out on Friday. Friday night I fed the birds some fresh apple. Yesterday, I went to the pet store; he gave me money and asked me that IF I were going out if I would get some... .I bought it and brought it home and handed it to him... .Saturday. The birds were without ample food since Wednesday. He had not eaten because he "couldn't find jelly for a pb &j while we were gone and I handed him the bird food HOPING that he would go up and FEED THE BIRDS. That didn't happen. It sat there. I then told him that I would be making some pizza dough but I had to finish what I was working on and then he asked me if I "could make him something" to eat... .he STILL hasn't thought of birds... .I am getting furious. I mention... I bet the birds are pretty hungry TOO. nothing from him. I make him a sandwich and when I go to bed... .9 p.m... .he STILL has not moved from the D computer to feed his birds. I went back downstairs and took the bird food up and fed them.

He got mad that he "had to get up to let the dog out" and told me that if "his character dies" that it would take him 45 minutes and told me to F off if I didn't like it.

A wonderful day here in this HELL HOLE. He is calling for me to come and get the girl... ."HOON"... .I just "don't feel like it"... .

Making Christmas cookies today... .

[real lady]

A new year and the SAME OLD GAMING ADDICTION for my uBPDso... .  he has been spending an average of 16 hours per day. for OVER A MONTH now on his game, world of warcraft, and seems to like his schedule.

I am accepting of this to the point that I go to bed when I am tired; one night after christmas I went upstairs at 7:30 and my light was off by 9. I was finishing reading a book and putting my son to bed and never went back down. UBPDso used to "call upstairs" to ask me if I was coming down... .  one night in the past week, when I was going to bed about 9 he said "going upstairs ALREADY?" I curtly replied "YES, I am tired and there is NOTHING to do down here... .  goodnight". Of course, that means, goodnight to him in about 8 more hours.

SO, I have RADICALLY ACCEPTED that he is gaming all day... .  He seems to be annoyed that he HAS TO go out; shopping, mail, etc... .  and I have been doing MORE shopping, picking up dog food and treats (different stores) and putting gas into the car... . he does NOTHING in the house and is TOTALLY addicted to his game and seems to be content with being so.

I take my son to school and usually come home to sit with the puppies, take them out, work on the computer (anything quiet) until I hear him get up and then I make his coffee, start breakfast, etc... .  Some days, I try for at least two days per week, I take myself out for the day, like yesterday. I have coffee and breakfast at a local coffeeshop that has WiFi and I sit and peruse the web, etc... .  I may make a few more stops before picking my son up from school and taking us home, maybe a stop FOR him before we get there.

Today I am meeting a friend at her home and taking some homemade scones for our coffee and chatting. I am looking forward to just sitting back and relaxing with a girlfriend for a change instead of tippy toeing around the house while uBPDso sleeps with the puppy girl upstairs... .  yes, she sleeps on MY side of the bed (I pull older coverlet to cover my side since I know that she WILL BE lying there... .  love her but she IS a puppy; all 110 lbs of her)

I see him from about 1-2:30 p.m... .  4:30 to bedtime and THAT IS IT *(between 7-9 hours a day) ... .  I asked him if he was going to watch Criminal Minds and he said that "he was stuck and it didn't seem like he would be able to watch it" but "watched" it from his computer.

Nothing has changed for the better; I have not engaged him in any "confrontation" about his gaming behavior and time but I AM HOLDING ONTO my schedule and what I and my son need and am MORE adamant about NOT adapting to his and letting him see the "consequences" of the time that he is "playing"... .  

I don't ask for anything from him... .  I tell him what I need to do, money I need, etc... There are a few things that HE must handle, like tomorrow... .  he is taking the car for an oil change and service... .  omg... .  what we he do for a few hours without his game? ... .  really... .  

He is starting to "talk to me about his game"... .  I am "reading" on the internet or with headphones and he still "talks to me" as though I am interested in it. I looked to him and said "I am glad that you are enjoying it... .  " but he goes on. I look at him with "uh-huh" with DISINTEREST and my fascination with WHAT IS ON MY SCREEN... .  turn about is fair "play"... .   He probably thinks that we are "spending time together" but I told him that I am not interested in playing the game and "that is TOO MUCH INFORMATION" for me, I am so glad that you enjoy it" and then I go back to minding MY business and let him know thru body language that I am MORE interesting in what I am doing that what he is doing. He talks with me and wants me to "look at this" while I am cooking and I set the boundaries; "busy making dinner"... .  

I don't like it; I can manage time with him and dysregulation and know WHEN to expect it (time away from the game) and am going on with my life... .  Acceptance is a good thing.

[KateCat]

Sounds as though you're getting pretty close to mastering the "detachment" skills taught on bpdfamily.com. 

It also sounds as though this relationship may not last forever. So I'm wondering if you need to take any steps to ensure your financial future? Does your state recognize the financial contributions of non-marital partners in the event of separation? If it does, it may be safe for you to let more time pass without making big changes, but if it doesn't would that mean that you walk away from this relationship with nothing if and when either you or your partner terminate the relationship?

I guess I'm also thinking that your son will soon be a teenager (if I remember correctly) and that conflict between him and your partner may become more likely . . . and therefore your family situation might become more precarious.

You'll be fine, for sure, in the long run. But will you be able to make "the leap" o.k. if you need to on short notice?

[tuum est61]

... .  Acceptance is a good thing.

Hi real lady,

I ended up reading this thread because I saw Kate Cat had commented and once I got in I saw that Phoebe123 and Waverider had also weighed in.  These are great advisors whom have all provided you excellent advice.  I agree particularly with Kate Cat, you have definitely made a lot of progress on detaching from your husbands emotion and behaviours.  It led to a better Christmas.  I had a better Christmas this year as well as a result of detachment from my uBPDw's behaviours as well. Acceptance is truly a wonderful thing.  

That being said, I think some additional application of boundaries - real "as a non living with a pwBPD" boundaries could help you.  You've definitely set some in association with the detachment, but there's much more to do.

Right now, you have a lot of focus on trying to set boundaries for him - ie the 5 hours per day gaming, having him take care of the dogs and the birds, change the oil on the car, etc.  Those aren't boundaries in this context.  Your husband is certainly noticing your effort and is feeling (and feelings are ALWAYS right) that you are trying to control him.  And you are -and burning yourself out and challenging your relationship in the process.  

What if instead of insisting he feed the birds, walk the dogs, do the oil changes,  you just did those and other things yourself?  It seems you are for the most part anyway.  Relieve yourself of the stress of trying to motivate him, and just enjoy!  (I have a 110 lb “puppy” and another smaller 90 lb one myself - getting out with them was a major boundary setting, stress relieving "game changer" in my relationship)  

I realize your time is limited – I am sure you are burning the candle at both ends AND in the middle but what if you did those things INSTEAD of making him dinner, coffee, and making sure he eats “proper first portions"?

I ask this as a question, because we all do what we have to do to get by.  It may not be an option - having children around complicates boundary settng around meals - but unlike some members here, your H appears fully capable of looking after himself.  You should definitely at least not be accomodating his gaming by how you do the meals.

What do you think about stop making his meals as a boundary?  Are there any other similar actions you could take regarding things you are doing for him that he can just do himself?  

[KateCat]

RL,

I see today that the original ":)ear Abby" has just died . . . but we are lucky to have advisors on this site who offer the type of wisdom-for-the-people that she helped pioneer.

I also live with a man who is on his computer many more than half the hours of the day, though "working" rather than gaming. (His particular mental health peculiarity makes it such that this is actually pretty close to true. ) I find it works extremely well to "feed the birds, walk the dogs, do the oil changes" while he keeps his own schedule and takes his meals and speaks a sentence or two when he is ready.

There is now almost no conflict in my household. There is also no conversation, no watching a movie together, no visit from a friend, no dinner party, no planning for trips or any other aspects of the future. He shows vitually no interest in family, including his family of origin. Almost all human contact I have is outside the home, away from him.

And heck yes, I look forward to something different in the (near) future. But then again, I'm emotionally "done." At this time, I'm maintaining status quo as the needs of two frail family elders are uppermost in my mind. I think your situation may be tougher in that you're not sure of the when or the how of your next step.

And now for what I really think: What a bummer that a lively, social, active, and, yes, young woman like yourself has found herself in a situation that bears some resemblance to mine. I know it's not at all what you expected. . . . And I hope all the great learning we do here at bpdfamily.com will get you out of it sooner rather than later.

[tuum est61]

KC,

Your description of how things have evolved in your situation may be the reason that some, like RL, continue to try to engage their partner.  To some extent, maintaining the emotional tension and the cycle of conflict around trying to keep our partner "engaged" is better than the peace and quiet of an emotionless environment.  I believe a fear of that held me back a bit initially from working on healthy boundaries, I was fearful that my W would totally withdraw.  But while she complained a lot about me doing these other things and threatened to withdraw, she didn't.  I still don't have what I want or expected - she struggles still with emotional "closeness" with me, but even that is making minor improvements.  But we are in a far better place. Maybe I am just lucky. (BTW, my W reminds me of how lucky I am all the time - and she's serious.)  

You do seem to still hold out hope for "change" and reading between the lines, you appear to be ready to promote that "change" soon - or perhaps at least as soon as you no longer have the duties associated with your elder family members.

Given that setting boundaries challenges, or in fact can severely impact intimacy, do you have any additional thoughts as to how we all can "move to the next level" once we have established a modicum of stability with regard to our BPD partners?  

RL, what do you think?

[KateCat]

tuum est,

I rock as an example of "detachment," and nothing else, LOL! As my husband is a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic my situation is unlike yours or Real Lady's. When his dad and my dad are gone, I think that the two of us divorcing will be like a "release to the wild" of two animals long in captivity.

I recently came upon a shocking description of characteristics of people with schizo-affective disorder and paranoid schizophrenia. It stated that they actually have the "contempt" for others--including close family members--that they can appear to have. You know, not just sporadically or chaotically or reactively, like your partners, but persistently and fundamentally. I now believe this to be true. I did not really understand this before. It seemed too incredible to believe.

So I have decided not to go down further with this ship, even though I am over sixty. That's the only "next level" I'm taking it to.   But it's exciting!

You guys who are still in the trenches have all my sympathy.

[20years]

The internet became his total life and existence. He would be on it from 4.30 pm until 11.30 then it changed 7.30pm till 4 in the morning. We stopped cooking, eating, sleeping together and any form of social life/partnership.

He would never make any effort to cook a meal together like we used to or eat with me.  Any food that I cooked for us he always said " I will eat mine later on I am busy at the moment" so he ate it at the computer... Or in many cases he did not eat anything at all.  So the next morning I threw in it the trash.

That didn't bother him in the slightest. He would just grab what ever was available.

The food in the freezer and the cupboards all ran out in the end because he refused to go shopping with me or do anything with me "Why cant you go out shopping and get something to eat he said screaming and shouting. My response "why can't you why should I do it all the time are you not my partner."

Well I got sick of going out for food I lost all heart for something that was goin to be thrown out anyway. So I just grabbed something for me to eat whilst I was out when it all became too much being around him.

[real lady]

Sounds as though you're getting pretty close to mastering the "detachment" skills taught on bpdfamily.com.   But will you be able to make "the leap" o.k. if you need to on short notice?

Thanks KateCat for replying... .  that is what I am currently working on... .  networking and "getting back into work" and society after having been so secluded for the past year... .  

... .  Acceptance is a good thing. I had a better Christmas this year as well as a result of detachment from my uBPDw's behaviours as well. Acceptance is truly a wonderful thing.

 Nice to meet you too hon... .  I am so glad that you had a good christmas too... .  we deserve to have some peace and love in our homes, with all the turmoil and rage of a pwBPD.  

That being said, I think some additional application of boundaries - real "as a non living with a pwBPD" boundaries  could help you.  You've definitely set some in association with the detachment, but there's much more to do.

I will read more on the site about this... .  sounds good... .  thanks.

What if instead of insisting he feed the birds, walk the dogs, do the oil changes,  you just did those and other things yourself?

 Yes, I realized that I needed radical acceptance of this situation and I stopped "expecting him to do anything for me" and let him "have the consequences" of his behavior without rescuing him... .  He has picked up the birds care... .  I do check on them and add to it sometimes but I DO NOT tell him so... .  that helps me a bit. I never expected him to walk the dogs and he has only gone on two walks with us but promised to take them for walks last July when we got our girl puppy... .  I offered to do the oil changes but I have "taken over" the shopping which is fine so things are less stressful and he seems be ok with the 16 hours a day of gaming... .  I ASKED HIM ONCE and he said "I am NOT cutting down on my gaming, it isn't happening" so I work/play/live around him... .  

I realize your time is limited – I am sure you are burning the candle at both ends AND in the middle but what if you did those things INSTEAD of making him dinner, coffee, and making sure he eats “proper first portions"?

your H appears fully capable of looking after himself.  You should definitely at least not be accomodating his gaming by how you do the meals.

He is more capable than he lets on... .  today he had one scone that I made last night, for breakfast and JUST ate dinner now... .  I do meals when I think we are ALL ready and hungry and NOT TOO LATE... .  if it is "too early" for him to eat dinner at 7 p.m., then he will have to rethink getting up out of bed at 1:30 p.m. I don't think that I have accomodated except for giving him a "15 minutes" call and if it is a special meal; like salmon, I told him that I would like him to come to the table to enjoy it... .  gave him the "time"... .  even counted it down and said "dinner will be on the table in 5 now"... .  or "plating your meal now"... .  it is working very well actually.

What do you think about stop making his meals as a boundary? Are there any other similar actions you could take regarding things you are doing for him that he can just do himself?

 Only to prepare and have the meal ready for us to eat... .  I don't beg him to sit with us, etc... .  I expect him to let me know about any laundry, apart from what I can see, specifically and hold him accountable to bring it to me if he needs a special item washed...

RL,

I see today that the original ":)ear Abby" has just died . . . but we are lucky to have advisors on this site who offer the type of wisdom-for-the-people that she helped pioneer.

I heard and I have read Randi's books and really appreciate her wisdom and support on this site... .  

I also live with a man who is on his computer many more than half the hours of the day, though "working" rather than gaming. (His particular mental health peculiarity makes it such that this is actually pretty close to true. ) I find it works extremely well to "feed the birds, walk the dogs, do the oil changes" while he keeps his own schedule and takes his meals and speaks a sentence or two when he is ready.

There is now almost no conflict in my household. There is also no conversation, no watching a movie together, no visit from a friend, no dinner party, no planning for trips or any other aspects of the future. He shows vitually no interest in family, including his family of origin. Almost all human contact I have is outside the home, away from him.

Yes, no contact = no conflict for the most part for me also. I don't push for contact, he doesn't push back with conflict.

And heck yes, I look forward to something different in the (near) future. But then again, I'm emotionally "done."At this time, I'm maintaining status quo as the needs of two frail family elders are uppermost in my mind.

I am sorry to hear of your situation; I don't have elderly family members to care for; mom passed Sept 2011 and dad, Dec. 2012. Only my son and I are things are going well for him, him and me and him and his stepdad... .  

I think your situation may be tougher in that you're not sure of the when or the how of your next step.

Well, I know the "when" is not anytime soon and I am "reaching out" to EXPAND my life into more social circles without him. I am unsure of the next step. I am preparing for a "quick leave" if there would ever be the need.

And now for what I really think: What a bummer that a lively, social, active, and, yes, young woman like yourself has found herself in a situation that bears some resemblance to mine.

Thanks hon... .  it is a "bummer" but I intend to PUT MYSELF OUT THERE... .  I just joined a chamber ensemble and feel GOOD because I am singing again, something that makes me FEEL ALIVE... .  I need it and will NEVER give it up again. I am sorry for your situation hon, but YOU can also "reach out" and have a FULL life 'living around' your BPDh... .  has he been diagnosed? are these husbands who we think are BPD and REFUSE to go to counseling? Mine is... .  

I know it's not at all what you expected. . . . And I hope all the great learning we do here at bpdfamily.com will get you out of it sooner rather than later.

No, not at all, the broken promises broke my heart and leave me somewhat sorry that I returned to him after 25 years but I realize, because I DO love him that caring for him right now, though he may NEVER change and we may never have the close relationship that we had briefly again, that he is being cared for while I evaluate my life and ask myself if "this is what I want" for the rest of my life... .  we will see... .  I don't see it happening... .  I see my son and I moving out of the country on a missions and NOT returning in about 10 years... .  I would LOVE that... .  

[real lady]

Update:

The power went out from 1 am to 11 am yesterday. He missed at least 4 hours of "gaming" and was really "bummed" by it. He barely got any sleep and as soon as the power came on; then the internet needed to come on and THEN he had to do something with resetting the router, etc (some geeky thing happened) and THEN he could play his game... .  1 p.m. -  5 am... .  on only a few hours of sleep (no C PaP machine due to NO power so he tried to sleep sitting up).

NOW THAT IS JUST PLAIN CRAZY. I no longer "feel sorry" for him when he does this to himself. He will say "well, I DIDN'T get any sleep last night" (like DUH... .  but if I state the OBVIOUS he can dysregulate... .  I am to the point of saying "of course" or "well, yeah." anything but "that is TOO BAD,   you poor baby, look how you are suffering"... .  NO... .  

He has yet to begin to take responsibility for his LACK OF SLEEP and failing health and his entitlement to PLAY HIS GAME all the time. I don't get upset about it anymore. I will ask "will you be watching this or that program" and if not, I put on a movie and sit and watch it alone with him playing his game with headphones behind me.

Saw some great Foreign Films lately (French and subtitled) and will watch a movie that I have been wanting him to watch with me for over a year... .  and I will watch it alone or with my son. Too bad that he has EXTRICATED

HIMSELF FROM MY LIFE. I have very little contact with him now even though we sleep (VERY RARELY anymore since I have been getting up before he comes back to bed) in the same bed; now, I usually lie awake when he comes to bed and get up shortly afterward if I don't fall back to sleep and take the puppy girl downstairs with me.

[waverider]

Its sad when you live separate lives in the same household.

Some of the loneliest times are spent in the company of others.

Their mere presence seems have a "braking" effect on fulfilling your life.

Just work on keeping the resentment levels down to the occasional frustrating moments instead. Helps if you have something physical to do

[real lady]

Just work on keeping the resentment levels down to the occasional frustrating moments instead. Helps if you have something physical to do

Thanks WR  ... .  I think I broke through the "resentment barrier" in counseling a few days ago; she asked me if I "felt resentment" and I hadn't really thought of it. Now I KNOW that I feel BETRAYED, LIED TO and yes, I have felt a GREAT REMORSE that I had trusted him; put my life on hold TO BE WITH him and then have him say to me AGAIN today... .  get the "F" out of my house.

I calmly looked at him and said "OK"... .  I will start looking and with your help, I hope to be OUT by March. I know he really DOES NOT want me to go and he really cannot afford to have me leave; we have two puppies that he will NOT be able to care for PLUS he will have lost SO MUCH MORE than just a person who loved him when I leave... .  too bad though, for him. I think that I can start moving on now. He's been on his game all day; and I am even GLAD for it now.

[tuum est61]

real lady,

If you truly intend to leave, there's no real need to reply or negotiate or "JADexplain" the departure. I don't believe you should expect any help from him. When the Nike moment arrives, you will "just do it."

That may or may not be in March. It could be even sooner.  Again, you will know.  In the meantime, keep using the tools you've a acquired here. As an alternative to your declaration about leaving you could have simply set a boundary and left him alone with his abusive language. Or better yet, you could have validated his feelings with "I seem to irritate you a lot." " I must be really bothering you."   "I can see you are very upset about me." "It has to be difficult for you to have such strong negative feelings about me, that you tell me to get the F out if here."

Patronizing language perhaps. My W has certainly described such validation as patronizing and something "my online friends" told me to do, but even though it took some time, the negative outbursts lessened and then nearly stopped. It's because the outburst ls no longer rewarded with any indication from you that his behavior is bothering you.  Remember, a pwBPD has an extreme need to project their pain onto others - saying you will leave reflects the pain and frustration you feel (even if you are calm and rational about it) and thus they achieve "success".  

In the minimum, validation is "reasonable" course of action, if not one that always leads to resolution. It may draw further negative commentary (which you can further validate - "that REALLY suck that my agreement with you feeling badly has you feeling badly" rather than just walking away and creating further feelings of abandonment.

When I first started validating, I struggled - with the technique but also with concerns about it not being genuine or useful. And that fed a further fear that I was going to have to be validating every thing my W said. What I found, however, is that the more validating I did, the less I have to do. The exchanges with my W became and less tense. We still struggle but our "fights" are far shorter and some simply don't start because I choose to validate rather than JADE.

It's hard though. My best wishes to you as you walk this path.

[waverider]

When I first started validating, I struggled - with the technique but also with concerns about it not being genuine or useful. And that fed a further fear that I was going to have to be validating every thing my W said. What I found, however, is that the more validating I did, the less I have to do. The exchanges with my W became and less tense. We still struggle but our "fights" are far shorter and some simply don't start because I choose to validate rather than JADE.

Important point this. When first using the tools its such a contrast it can be wooden and sticks out, even provoking extinction burst type behavior. But it doesn't feed their needs as its designed not to, they also start to accept this as the new "you speak" and start to expect/accept it. Overall the level of conflict starts to lesson.

Initially you question whether you can keep this "act" up. but it becomes less of an act over time. You will also find that as conflict lessons, at times you can even drop the tools, either alltogether occasionally, or at least to a lower background level, to be pulled out when needed.

Two reasons for this, they are not as primed and ready to trigger, and also you are less afraid of when they do as you are more confident in your ability to damage control. This taking the foot off the gas so to speaks takes a lot of pressure off you and considerably reduces resentment for having to be always vigilant

[real lady]

THANK YOU SO MUCH ((WR and tuum)) I am reading and understanding and KNOW that he is usually "ready to burst" whenever I speak so I think that my "you speak" HAS changed and my demeanor does NOT affirm his BPD rage while holding his ability or "justification" to burst at bay. He has "been doing better" over time... .  less intensity, duration and frequency. Quicker response and de-escalation.

After his blow up day before yesterday, he is acting "like it never happened"... .  I am remaining COOL and as usual, "here" but not trying to "side up" to him. I told him just once that day that I would "do what he wants but need his help, I will diligently be working on it" and I mean it. I won't discuss it with him. We agreed, done.

Thanks so much; I will be reading MORE in order to do what I can to make my time here less stressful for everyone... .