Should have seen it comin'

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Well sorry for what is going to be a long post.

I have been popping in here for quite a while to read and take away some fantastic information.  Always leaving feeling a little stronger and more informed. Thanks everyone for that!

I am seperated from (seems like will never get done)stxuHFBDw for 9 months.  :)ivorce (which she filed for) is dragging out, she is running distortion campaign, has entitlement down to a science, m-i-l  is most likely bp as well and only person stbxw talks to except her lawyer, (not exaggeration) and we have 3 boys.  Youngest is 3 with health issues, twins are six.  

Been through the wringer... .I am incompetent, unreliable, wasn't there for this or that, can't care for youngest health issues, can't have overnights because I didn't have a place (was staying at work trying to save money), can't see them at house she doesn't want me there, I get a place and I can't have overnights unless she see's it,  on and on... .despite all this I have soldiered on, my lawyer finally gets it - though I don't know if she knows how to deal with it yet.  I am sure parental alienation is going on, I have had days with incredible moments of satisfaction and relief - my twins saying that my new place "feels just like home" the very first time they came there - no toys, no t.v., hardly any furniture. Made me bawl my eyes out in validation.  I have had days of utter despair that I will never be able to see them as much as I want because she is the "mother" - She is high functioning and I cannot say a bad word about her taking care of the kids.  It is the unhealthy anxiety in the environment she creates that is just not tangible to an arugment it seems.

Anyway, the point is we have been getting along okay.  Today, 5:30 (after she is sure my lawyer is gone for day) she says the verbal agreement we had that I would come to the house for x-mas morning, was not an agreement and she does not want me there.  Baited and taken - circular argument about all things "bad" I have done in history, and by the way child support is not enough, and on and on.  I finally said "you are f--king sick! sleep well!" and hung up.  

She was playing nice just and dragging out court just so we didn't get it ordered.  Sucker sittin right here.   Not sure if I am more angry at myself, at her, or at her mother who is the root of most of this evil - I have said things along the lines of "a judge may agree that the house, furniture and even the g-damn grass is yours and your mothers, but he is not going to say these are you and your mothers kids" (paraphrased mostly to remove a lot of profanity).  I am ill prepared to counter a distortion campaign (mostly exaggeration - hoping it doesn't escalate - hear you all saying it will), it is my personality to not keep inventories, I know I need to keep a journal and vow to you all I am buying a recorder asap.  

All that being said, I am digging down deep, taking a deep breath, talking to my mom and friends, but they all just don't seem to get it like you all do.  Not in my personality to ask, but I could use a few words of support.

Sincerely grateful you are here!

Joe

[manwithoutfear]

Well sorry for what is going to be a long post.

I have been popping in here for quite a while to read and take away some fantastic information.  Always leaving feeling a little stronger and more informed. Thanks everyone for that!

I am seperated from (seems like will never get done)stxuHFBDw for 9 months.  :)ivorce (which she filed for) is dragging out, she is running distortion campaign, has entitlement down to a science, m-i-l  is most likely bp as well and only person stbxw talks to except her lawyer, (not exaggeration) and we have 3 boys.  Youngest is 3 with health issues, twins are six.  

Been through the wringer... .I am incompetent, unreliable, wasn't there for this or that, can't care for youngest health issues, can't have overnights because I didn't have a place (was staying at work trying to save money), can't see them at house she doesn't want me there, I get a place and I can't have overnights unless she see's it,  on and on... .despite all this I have soldiered on, my lawyer finally gets it - though I don't know if she knows how to deal with it yet.  I am sure parental alienation is going on, I have had days with incredible moments of satisfaction and relief - my twins saying that my new place "feels just like home" the very first time they came there - no toys, no t.v., hardly any furniture. Made me bawl my eyes out in validation.  I have had days of utter despair that I will never be able to see them as much as I want because she is the "mother" - She is high functioning and I cannot say a bad word about her taking care of the kids.  It is the unhealthy anxiety in the environment she creates that is just not tangible to an arugment it seems.

Anyway, the point is we have been getting along okay.  Today, 5:30 (after she is sure my lawyer is gone for day) she says the verbal agreement we had that I would come to the house for x-mas morning, was not an agreement and she does not want me there.  Baited and taken - circular argument about all things "bad" I have done in history, and by the way child support is not enough, and on and on.  I finally said "you are f--king sick! sleep well!" and hung up.  

She was playing nice just and dragging out court just so we didn't get it ordered.  Sucker sittin right here.   Not sure if I am more angry at myself, at her, or at her mother who is the root of most of this evil - I have said things along the lines of "a judge may agree that the house, furniture and even the g-damn grass is yours and your mothers, but he is not going to say these are you and your mothers kids" (paraphrased mostly to remove a lot of profanity).  I am ill prepared to counter a distortion campaign (mostly exaggeration - hoping it doesn't escalate - hear you all saying it will), it is my personality to not keep inventories, I know I need to keep a journal and vow to you all I am buying a recorder asap.  

All that being said, I am digging down deep, taking a deep breath, talking to my mom and friends, but they all just don't seem to get it like you all do.  Not in my personality to ask, but I could use a few words of support.

Sincerely grateful you are here!

Joe

[Matt]

Man,

Lots of stuff here, and I remember when I was where you are.  Legal stuff, the end of the relationship, smears, and how to help the kids - huge issues.  You'll have to break it down to think clearly about any of it.

One thing someone here told me was to look for strength three places... .

First is peers - like here - others who are on the same path, further along, dealing with the same issues, and know what you're going through.  You'll get good ideas and support and understanding, but you'll probably need to post one issue at a time - kid issues here on the "Parenting" board and legal issues on the "Family Law" board.  It can just be too overwhelming to try to talk about it all at once.

Second is family and close friends.  You can't expect them to understand this stuff - nobody who hasn't seen it can really get.  But they care about you and can support you as a person.  You need to keep asking for that support - tough for guys to do but really important right now.

Finally, a professional like a counselor.  I saw a counselor for about three years and it helped a lot - he gave me practical tools for dealing with the intense stress I was going through.

If you take good care of yourself and make good choices, it will work out for you as it has for most of us.  It will probably take a while and won't be as simple as most divorces so you can't aim for a quick settlement or you'll get a bad one.

I separated after 10 years, just a few days before Christmas 2006, when my wife melted down completely and accused me of assault.  Things were difficult and stressful for about a year, and the divorce wasn't final til mid-2008.  But  now it's been 6 years, I rarely talk to her, the kids are with me most of the time, and they're doing very well in every way.  But it was a very tough time that first year or so.

Hang in there!  Take care of yourself!  And break it down and talk with us about one thing at a time so you can work through stuff without getting overwhelmed.

Matt

[manwithoutfear]

Thanks Matt,

I have been seeing a T and he wonders sometimes why I still come... .then something like this happens.

My family and friends are very supportive, they just don't get it when it comes to the "crazy", and how it has affected me.

I am now a little more calm and realizing how important the "peers" part is.

I was not really looking for specific answers, just needed to vent a little and here some encouraging words.  I was devastated that she pulled this with x-mas.  I was "walking on eggshells" again just to avoid anything that would set her off and screw that up and she just did it anyway.  Lesson learned, hard way as usual.  I do have kids tomorrow, need to get my head back on straight (or somewhat so) for any brief interaction during transfers and carry on.

The idea that this could be over someday (no matter how far that day is off in the future) does give me some sense of relief. 

Thanks again.

[Matt]

One thing that helped me a lot, to get past the most chaotic early phase, was reducing face-to-face and phone communications to almost never.

E-mail leaves a trail.  I sometimes replied to inappropriate e-mails copying a neutral third party, like our marriage counselor or our Custody Evaluator, so my wife would know that what she sends me will not be treated as private - if she sends me an e-mail with accusations or blaming I won't keep that a secret.  Pretty soon she stopped doing that and now her e-mails to me are almost always simple and appropriate - usually just "OK." or something else very brief.

With no face-to-face discussion and phone only when absolutely necessary, I am not subject to her chaos.  I focus on the kids and my life, and she is a very small part of it.

I know you can't get there right away but try to notice how much of your communication with her is really necessary and productive.  I think you'll find that it's very little.  Try to eliminate the other stuff and your life will be less crazy.

[Rubies]

I agree with Matt.  Contact through attorney ONLY.  When she tries to talk face to face, state for her to send you an email.  That whack stuff looks great to a judge.   You don't have to read or respond to it, just forward it to your attorney or put in your save file.  You don't have to let it yank your chain.  Take a step back and look at it from the outside.  Yup, it's whack!  Be glad you're getting out.

I immediately got a therapist.  I asked for a therapist most familiar with BPD.  He was an ex cop.  He was able to show me the next moves BPDxh would make and and how to preempt the damage.  He sucked at therapy though.

Get therapists for the kids.

Friends and family don't get it.  They keep asking WHY?  There is no WHY.  The only answer is BPD.  Only a few people I know who've experienced it actually get it

[manwithoutfear]

Great advice Matt and Rubies (wanted to say Max and Ruby not sure anyone would get the reference)

It's the phone that gets me every time.  Sad too, because my dad used to tell me "the phone is poison to recovering addicts."  He was sober 35 years and sponsored hundreds of people, some of which are good friends of mine now.  Face to face, I see the look on her face and I know it's time to go... .somehow on the phone I get sucked in every once in a while.  Going to double my efforts on that front. 

I have been in therapy for about 9 months and it has been great.  I do tend to tell him what I think I should do and he agrees. He is not real good with the concept that I am there mostly for reinforcement and tools... .I think he would feel better if he was making the suggestions, but I am pretty motivated and think I have read Walking on Eggshells at least three times now, not counting the times I just peruse for a bit.  I know I need to get the hell away from her, just need some help reinforcing how to do that in the most healthy way for me and the kids.  It does seem to be a bit of a mess from the staNPDoint of m-i-l and stbx - enmeshment, infantalizing my children and my stbx, pd's, etc.  But we stay away from all that and focus on my boundary issues, my need/desire to rescue and the beating my self-esteem/self-worth has taken from it all.  It was just helpful to realize I wasn't just in a situation where my stbx and I needed help to work out things between us, but my stbx and m-i-l would need help as well, which was NEVER going to happen.  When I have time I will tell some blow your mind, insane stories that are pretty funny in hindsight, but incredibly sad and painful if you are living them.

One of the twins is in therapy now- he is having some aggression and impulse control problems,  though I am really not sure they do anything except play with lego's, but I am willing to ride that out just in case.  I am more involved with the school than I have ever been and I think that is setting her off to some extent - though I am not sure why.  It seems she gets madder and madder the healthier and more competent I become... .nice how that works. (yes, that is spite in my tone). The other two seem to be okay, but I will not hesitate if there seem to be any sign of issues.

Stbx is very composed in her emails.  Part of her High functioning hyper-viligance I think,  it's only in person or on the phone that she will do things like threaten not to let me take the kids unless I tell her exactly where we are going, or call me names,  bait me, etc.  I am not taking calls from her unless there is a school or medical issue and am sending an email to inform her of such.   I may not get there "right away", but it will be PRETTY DAMN QUICK! LOL

Thanks again and again!

[Matt]

One of the twins is in therapy now- he is having some aggression and impulse control problems,  though I am really not sure they do anything except play with lego's, but I am willing to ride that out just in case.  I am more involved with the school than I have ever been and I think that is setting her off to some extent - though I am not sure why.  It seems she gets madder and madder the healthier and more competent I become... .nice how that works. (yes, that is spite in my tone). The other two seem to be okay, but I will not hesitate if there seem to be any sign of issues.

I used a different strategy with regard to counseling for the kids.  I didn't think of it as the solution to a problem - except for some acting out the first few weeks after we separated, my kids never had a "problem".  I viewed it as a source of strength for them - helping them process stuff that was happening and learn tools to deal with stuff that might happen in the future.  That view also helped me avoid having to "prove" that there was a "problem" - I never said there was a problem so I didn't have to prove it, and when the subject came up - my ex's lawyer made an issue of it - she got shot down fast because there was nothing negative about getting my kids help.

It's pretty certain that all your kids are under stress and experiencing things kids shouldn't experience.  Just being in the care of someone who has a personality disorder and is not getting the help she needs means they are exposed to twisted thinking very often, and that must cause them stress even if it isn't obvious that it's causing them problems yet.

[theirdad]

I'm new here too.  Similarities in our stories- high functioning, exceptable parenting in a logistic way but on emotional level a different story.  Other members here have more experience and perhaps better advice.  Nevertheless here are my thoughts from my experience;

1. Detach as best as possible.  Avoid the phone.  I find myself 'detached' and comfortable and then one phone call, that voice, and I can get spun.

2. Keep your cool.  yelling, profanity etc can most likely work against you. Furthermore she might get some reward from your heated response.

3. The distortion campaign- best advice I received during one of mine was "... .you can't win this, you can't come out looking good. Accept it and continue to be the decent person 

    you are."

4. Expect her to change 'the rules' it's what she does.  She's "entitled" to do that.  Nevertheless act protect your rights, and remember, she doesn't care about them.

5. "Circular arguements" became the norm until I realized you can't reason with the unreasonable. remember that.

6. No one who hasn't lived through the experience of living with this disorder can understand what it's like.  Try to keep that in mind.

Stay strong.

[ForeverDad]

Many people fear court and what draconian orders may be issued.  I know I did - at first.  That's a valid concern, but in most cases having a written court order defining all the details would be much better than living without a court order and constantly at the mercy of someone who can blame, block, sabotage and frame you in the blink of an eye.

Having an order that specified a parenting schedule, holiday schedules, exchange times and vacation rules would have avoided her antics over the recent holidays.  Well, maybe not avoided, but at least made it harder to succeed without some sort of consequences.

Since you are in divorce, don't hesitate to post your concenrs and especially legal issues over on the Family Law & Divorce board.

Bill Eddy's "Splitting" handbook is crucial for you to survive a divorce somewhat intact and not legally emasculated or in jail.  Richard Warshak's "Divorce Poison" is excellent for how to deal with the kids as well as relentless blocking and alienation from the other parent.  Both are inexpensive on Amazon and elsewhere and both have threads on our Book Reviews board.