Now I'm the one with BPD

[JustJay]

Hi everyone, this is my first post out of the introductions category. I am very new to dealing with any of these issues and could really use your help. Recently my fiancé who's been diagnosed with BPD has ended our engagement and moved out if our house. We are trying to fix our relationship but it feels like we take one step forward and 3 steps back. She is in a bad place right now and admits to feeling a lot of anxiety and depression. She feels lost and unable to give anything to me or our relationship. I told her that I was trying to learn about BPD and have her links to the resources that I've been looking at. She immediately got very defensive and has asked me if I see any of myself in the definitions of BPD. Of course I do see some, I think almost anyone would see something if they were honest enough. She is saying that I'm pointing the finger at her and saying that she is the problem and that I'm not taking any ownership of the breakdown of our relationship. Help me please. I have taken more than my fair share of ownership and don't know where to go from here or how to have a conversation without making her feel defensive. She's a social worker and has had clients with BPD as well as having it herself so when I do try to use the few tools I have she immediately discounts them and throws them in my face. I'm at a loss for words and feel very helpless.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Rockylove]

WOW!  This is a difficult situation indeed.  I feel for you.  It definitely seems that it is a heck of a lot of work to deal with the BPD in our lives and since yours knows all the tools you'll likely use, I would think that whatever you say, say it sincerely than back off.  I hope you find better answers than this from others with more experience.  I know that (although not trained in psych himself) the BPD in my life is very intelligent and has an amazing knack for seeing through any of my efforts in diffusing situations then turning the tables on me... .it's difficult.

[GustheDog]

My ex BPDgf has an MSW, so I know why this can be frustrating.  I never accused her of having BPD during the relationship, but I was unfalteringly the sole cause of any problems in her mind.  My approach (which apparently didn't work very well) was to approach her when she was calm and explain that I am not perfect and have certainly made contributions to the issues in our relationship.  I would then articulate the things that I believed I did wrong and pledged to handle things differently in those areas in the future.  My thinking was that this would disarm the situation and open the door for her to follow suit and assume responsibility for her own contributions - or to invite me to share where I believed she had fallen short if she couldn't discern this for herself.  "I'm not perfect, but I just want you to me meet me halfway," became my mantra.

Guess how that turned out?

[GustheDog]

Re: "turning the tables" - Arguments had a clear pattern, and I feel so stupid for not recognizing this earlier.  (1) She complains, whines, criticizes, or berates me about something I either failed to do or failed to do "properly."  (2) I try to address it rationally but she deflects the topic and resorts to ad hominem attacks (in what I now believe was in an effort - conscious or not - to incite me to raise my voice or use foul language).  (3) I raise my voice or use foul language.  (4) She tears up and goes in her room to pout after telling me I mistreat her and that "the way I talk to her" is abusive.

So, yeah, I understand.  If I could do it again, I would simply not react.  I would listen to whatever stream of nonsense came out of her mouth, tell her I'm sorry such things upset her, and go about my business.  If someone did that to me I would probably think they were dismissing me, but I honestly think that this would have been the best approach with my ex. 

[Rockylove]

I'm finding out that there is no such thing as meeting half way... .he's made a judgment on my character and no amount of apologizing helps that.  I often feel that when he's in a rage, he's talking to or about someone else.  I will spend time reflecting on his words (sometimes too much) and think... .but that's just not me!  I know now that I need to just acknowledge that he feels that way and know that it isn't ME that he's talking to.

[JustJay]

 Re: "turning the tables" - Arguments had a clear pattern, and I feel so stupid for not recognizing this earlier.  (1) She complains, whines, criticizes, or berates me about something I either failed to do or failed to do "properly."  (2) I try to address it rationally but she deflects the topic and resorts to ad hominem attacks (in what I now believe was in an effort - conscious or not - to incite me to raise my voice or use foul language).  (3) I raise my voice or use foul language.  (4) She tears up and goes in her room to pout after telling me I mistreat her and that "the way I talk to her" is abusive.

I can't believe I read that. That is exactly the pattern of almost every argument we have. Then I get told that I have anger management issues, that I have BPD, and that I am verbally abusive ( which ends up being true)

I am currently getting the silent treatment, I'm not exactly sure why and its never happened before. With the holidays here I know she has a ton if anxiety. I don't know if I can do this anymore. There doesn't seem to be an end in sight. 

[Rockylove]

JustJay... .I don't think there ever IS any end.  We are constantly evolving.  It does seem that there is a certain point at which the BPD seems to get "stuck" and evolve no further than their disorder allows them.  That doesn't mean that you have to be stuck with them.  You seem very discouraged at the moment, but don't give up on YOUR evolution.  The holidays are often intense for even the most sane individuals.  I've slowly backed off the holiday hype in the past 10 years to preserve my own sanity~~no expectations, no disappointments   Enjoy the silence... .it's often unnerving, but I find it better than a barrage of disparaging remarks.

[GustheDog]

It's too late for it to be of any use to me, but I like this "loving from a distance" concept and wish I'd heard of it sooner.  There are tons of posts and info on it here, but I like to think of it as watching the BPD ride the roller coaster rather than riding it with them.  Or, in other words, not taking things personally or literally.

What makes this hard, I imagine, is that you have to detach emotionally.  In order to not have your world crushed by the negative things they say and do, you also have to accept that all the positive things they say and do - which probably also serve to make you feel amazing about yourself - are equally the distorted products of this illness.  But all of it is who this person truly is.

[Sharkey167]

What makes this hard, I imagine, is that you have to detach emotionally.  In order to not have your world crushed by the negative things they say and do, you also have to accept that all the positive things they say and do - which probably also serve to make you feel amazing about yourself - are equally the distorted products of this illness.  But all of it is who this person truly is.

Thank you for reminding me why I ended my relationship. I WANT someone to ride the roller coaster of life with but not someone who creates the ride themselves. (did that make sense?) I don't want to sit back and love the person in a detached way while they go about being a psychopath on their own.

[Rockylove]

Sharkey167... .I suppose I don't understand what you mean, but detaching for me is just detachment from the rages, not the person.  Although the comments are biting and aggressive when he's in a rage, the essence of his being is not his rage.  I understand detaching as more not engaging or getting drawn in by the things he says. 

[GustheDog]

Although the comments are biting and aggressive when he's in a rage, the essence of his being is not his rage.

Yeah, but neither is the Jesus-Christ figure on the other side of the chasm.  They're both him.  So, as I see it, I'm deluding myself if I detach from my ex's rages but still process the idealization behavior as the more accurate presentation, or the "true" person.  I can't simultaneously accept as fact how much she says she loves me and how utterly perfect I am to her when she's idealizing, and discount her heartbreaking words and actions when she's devaluing. 

How she really feels is someone where in the middle, of course - somewhere she can never settle and stay put.  For me, at least, this sort of wrecks the image of the relationship; I thought I'd found someone who really did feel that strongly and that positively about me.  Now this isn't the end of the world, and it doesn't mean I love her less or that I wouldn't give it another shot if she came around.  It's just, I don't know... .a game changer.

[GustheDog]

Edit - Maybe I shouldn't say "how she really feels."  It's probably true that she "really feels" the way she says she does both when she's idealizing and when she's devaluing.  What I mean is, both phases are products of the illness.  It's not that I'm flawless, but she feels that way sometimes because she's splitting off my negatives.  And vice versa.  I wanted to believe she really didn't see any negative in me, and when the first major devaluation comes around, the little paradise you've been basking in is blown sky-high.

[Rockylove]

totally understandable, Gus... .but it appears you are hurt... .people we don't love can't hurt us that way.  For me, I see the sadness in his eyes when he's acted a fool... .even if we have another discussion about it and he stands by what he's said... .it's the illness that creates the distortion of reality... .not HIM.  It sounds as thought you need to back away from your situation and re-evaluate what it was that brought you into it in the first place.  I wish you well in your pursuit.  Hope you keep posting the progress YOU have made... .and ask for help here as well... .I've found solace in the wisdom of the people I've interacted with on this site.

[ChemGuy]

Re: "turning the tables" - Arguments had a clear pattern, and I feel so stupid for not recognizing this earlier.  (1) She complains, whines, criticizes, or berates me about something I either failed to do or failed to do "properly."  (2) I try to address it rationally but she deflects the topic and resorts to ad hominem attacks (in what I now believe was in an effort - conscious or not - to incite me to raise my voice or use foul language).  (3) I raise my voice or use foul language.  (4) She tears up and goes in her room to pout after telling me I mistreat her and that "the way I talk to her" is abusive.

That is exactly the pattern that I've been dealing with for the last 2 years (i.e., since getting married). I would add one more step however - (5) I apologize for where I have legitimately done something wrong, but she says that I'm not apologizing for the right thing or that I'm not being sincere and the bad apology becomes just another thing that I've done wrong.

My w never yells.  She prefers to inflict the silent treatment and not tell me what I did wrong for several days after which she ignores me a little bit more.  But she can't just shut-down communication and be done with it she needs to twist the knife a little more. If I leave the house to escape the icy silence she texts me and accuses me of "abandoning [my] family" or tells me that I need to come home to watch our son so she can go out.  If I take our son out with me (he's just a little guy, 16 months) she'll text and demand that I bring him home so she can see him before she goes to wherever she's going. If I stay home I either must endure the silence (a nonstarter) or go to the basement and still she'll go to our bedroom and start texting or writing me some very nasty letter accusing me of being controlling, too organized, too disorganized, demeaning, etc. Text conversations are always abruptly ended with exasperation that I am rudely keeping her awake too late.  She often ends letters with something terribly troubling like "I'm not your punching bag, I'm not your whore!"  I never treated her like she was either of those things. 

At 2 years of marriage (1 year dating before that) I'm still new to all of this I guess; and just over Christmas I settled on the belief that BPD is the explanation for this ridiculousness. On 12/23 I made the mistake of commenting that I would like to iron my shirts and that was pretty much the end of Christmas 2012.  The silence was still going when we needed to leave town to visit her mom, so I didn't go with them.  I don't know if it was the right thing or the wrong thing for me to do, I didn't really care at the time, I couldn't bear the thought of being stuck in a house with her for 3 days... .and the 3 hour drive... .on a good day it would have been fun, but not that day.

I'm staying with her... .until I can't stay any longer. An entire lifetime with this person that I love but who doesn't seem to love me anymore, but that won't leave.  She's spent so much time ignoring me, each time after several days or weeks of silence I try to bounce back and be there for the good times, but even the good times are shaded by the specter of the last unresolved pain and the next pain that I know is just over the horizon. Each time I don't bounce back as high or as quickly, and sometimes (more often now than before) I don't want any more good times because I don't want to take down my walls just to build them again for another cycle. And then the good times go on for a few months and I begin to think things are getting better, but they're not, she's just accumulating data for an attack.

I know that my situation isn't as bad as some others' have on this site and there are things that I can do to improve my side of the situation (boundaries, radical acceptance, forgiveness, therapy for me) and I'm just starting my walk down this road.  Some people on this site seem so Zen about the whole thing... .does it get better or easier to handle?  What am I missing?

[Rockylove]

ChemGuy... .I don't think you're missing anything... .you are in a difficult position and your feelings seem very normal.  There have been so many times where I felt like I'd been punched in the gut.  I thought the man of my dreams hated me.  He doesn't hate me as much as he does himself... .and that makes me sad. 

You said "I don't want any more good times because I don't want to take down my walls just to build them again for another cycle."  This is very understandable.  I don't want to build any walls... .I'm thinking it's better for me to put on armor instead.  If I build a fortress, I'm likely not to let anyone enter my world, but putting on armor allows me to get as close to whomever I chose without fear of being pelted!  The armor I'm using is knowledge.  There are so many wonderful resources and this venue is proving invaluable.  I'm so glad I found it.


Your comment about people being "Zen" about their situations made me smile.  I'm a bona fide peace loving, tree hugging hippie chick that loves life,  and sees the good in everyone and everything.   I also have a very strong spiritual side and I have to admit, that gives me an advantage in this difficult relationship.

Don't lose faith.  Keep walking down the road you're walking... .practice using the tools you are learning.  You may decide to end the relationship because it isn't the right one for you, but in spite of feeling the need to change your way of communicating the worst that can happen is that you will find yourself relating to everyone in your life with greater self confidence.

[GustheDog]

totally understandable, Gus... .but it appears you are hurt... .people we don't love can't hurt us that way.  For me, I see the sadness in his eyes when he's acted a fool... .even if we have another discussion about it and he stands by what he's said... .it's the illness that creates the distortion of reality... .not HIM.  It sounds as thought you need to back away from your situation and re-evaluate what it was that brought you into it in the first place.  I wish you well in your pursuit.  Hope you keep posting the progress YOU have made... .and ask for help here as well... .I've found solace in the wisdom of the people I've interacted with on this site.

My point was merely that accepting the devaluation behavior as a distortion of reality must be accompanied by a corresponding acceptance that the idealization behavior is a distortion as well.  Unless I'm misunderstanding something fundamental about BPD, both are products of the illness, and both are distortions of reality.  If my premise is faulty, would someone kindly correct me?

I was not drawn to my relationship purely for selfish reasons, or needing to be needed, or needing to feel good about myself, or needing validation, etc.  The fact is that, regardless, my ex did activate those feelings within me - as have the partners/ex partners of many members who post here, as far as I can tell.  I chose to underscore this narrow issue because it is one reason that many former partners of pwBPD experience such intense pain and confusion when they are later devalued.

For me, if my ex and I were to get back together, things would be very different.  I now believe that she's not who I thought she was, at least sustainably.  She made herself into someone that I would love.  Isn't that another hallmark of this disorder - i.e., a weak sense of self and mirroring during the idealization?  I don't know who she is because she doesn't know who she is.  I fell in love with what was being presented to me to be a whole, integrous person - a false self, custom-built to the precise specifications for receiving my love.  I would welcome the chance to know, and the opportunity to love, her in her entirety.  But I will likely not have that chance, and that is okay, too.

[waverider]

They are trying to draw you into the roller coaster of chaos, so they are not there alone, it also validates them as being "normal" if you are doing the same thing. Compromise and negotiations are generally not on the table.

This is done by projecting their issues onto you (problems shared are problems halved). BUT the irony is if you join them you actually fuel the chaos and distract from the real cause, hence resolution is harder. You need to wear your Teflon suit and deflect all the mud that is thrown your way, let non of it stick, there is no real depth of meaning to the words anyway, its just bait.

For a pwBPD to stabilize at all they need a stable benchmark around them otherwise there is nothing to anchor to. Hence the "detach with love" principle, recognizing both extremes of highs and lows for what they are. To save a drowning person you cant just jump in and give them a hug, even though they may want you to, you just both drown.

[JustJay]

Reading all if these replies and seeing that my issues are so similar to many others gives me some selfish feeling that I'm not the only one. Thank you everyone for sharing, your experiences and the way you've dealt with them are so helpful.