Others Blaming You

[Depression = 72% of members]

Dear Friends,

I am sure that so many of you have had this happen- others blaming you, or minimizing or simply shrugging off your problems with your abusive parent.  How did/do you handle it?  In my case, I know, and make no apologies for saying, that the abuse I suffered and still suffer was/is real.  Yet, outside of this board, no one gets it.  People who witness wild acts of my mother (such as her calling the police to my work, threatening me with a gun) smile, shrug and say, "Well, two women just can't get along."  Or,  inevitably, "Your mother loves you very much, you only have one Mom, someday she will be gone... ." I admit it makes me angry.  I don't ask these people for advice, for help- that is fruitless.  They simply witness something and comment thus.  I feel so fake, so angry, so as if my mother "wins" as I smile, say nothing more and usually change the subject.  I know part of it is society, the inablity of "normal" people to see "abnormal" lives, but still, still, it seems so unjust.  How do you guys handle this?  And even among those who have been there, too- how do you justify saying, "This happened, this was wrong" not simply, "I'll move on with a smile and pretend it's normal mother-daughter difficulty"? I think we have a right to our truth, but how to express it? Howhealthy can it be to always swallow the abuse with a polite nod?

[Greeneyed Girl]

Dear Friends,

I am sure that so many of you have had this happen- others blaming you, or minimizing or simply shrugging off your problems with your abusive parent.  How did/do you handle it?  In my case, I know, and make no apologies for saying, that the abuse I suffered and still suffer was/is real.  Yet, outside of this board, no one gets it.  People who witness wild acts of my mother (such as her calling the police to my work, threatening me with a gun) smile, shrug and say, "Well, two women just can't get along."  Or,  inevitably, "Your mother loves you very much, you only have one Mom, someday she will be gone... ." I admit it makes me angry.  I don't ask these people for advice, for help- that is fruitless.  They simply witness something and comment thus.  I feel so fake, so angry, so as if my mother "wins" as I smile, say nothing more and usually change the subject.  I know part of it is society, the inablity of "normal" people to see "abnormal" lives, but still, still, it seems so unjust.  How do you guys handle this?  And even among those who have been there, too- how do you justify saying, "This happened, this was wrong" not simply, "I'll move on with a smile and pretend it's normal mother-daughter difficulty"? I think we have a right to our truth, but how to express it? Howhealthy can it be to always swallow the abuse with a polite nod?

[Sadbutterfly]

Hi Cherry Sky,

I haven't really found a way to deal with these situations and always end up feeling very upset and unheard. What I'm thinking of doing next time someone makes a comment like that is to tell them that I understand it is impossible for them to know what I'm going through since they haven't experienced it and that it is better if we drop that subject. Hopefully that way people will start realizing how unsensitive their comments are. I hope if someone has found a better way to deal with that they post it here so that we can all learn. Take care.

[rehtorb70]

Dear Friends,

I am sure that so many of you have had this happen- others blaming you, or minimizing or simply shrugging off your problems with your abusive parent. 

Sure, of course.  Except that in my case, it's my BPDSis.  People naturally assume that it "takes two to tango."  And that if you only reached out in a reasonable, concilliatory way to the pwBPD, the problems could be smoothed over and worked out in a reasonable way.

My advice is

(1) don't discuss the details of the relationship with people except those who are genuinely sympathetic; 

(2) If you must discuss things, don't emphasize the unpleasant things that the pwBPD has done to you.  Instead, state the neutral facts which demonstrate that there is something wrong with her. 

For example, if you say "My sister just sent me a nasty e-mail," people will think you are exaggerating or that you did something to provoke her.  On the other hand, if you say "I'm in the middle of a tiff with my sister; she's a bit difficult and she's been unemployed for the last 20 years," people will understand that the problem is with your sister and not you.

(3)  Try not to worry too much about other peoples' opinions.  Keep in mind that for various reasons a large percentage of people always minimize other peoples' problems no matter what. For people who do not have a BPD family member, it can be very difficult to understand and appreciate what you are going through and what you have been through.

[Happy2BeMe]

Dear Friends,

I am sure that so many of you have had this happen- others blaming you, or minimizing or simply shrugging off your problems with your abusive parent.  How did/do you handle it?  In my case, I know, and make no apologies for saying, that the abuse I suffered and still suffer was/is real.  Yet, outside of this board, no one gets it.  People who witness wild acts of my mother (such as her calling the police to my work, threatening me with a gun) smile, shrug and say, "Well, two women just can't get along."  Or,  inevitably, "Your mother loves you very much, you only have one Mom, someday she will be gone... ." I admit it makes me angry.  I don't ask these people for advice, for help- that is fruitless.  They simply witness something and comment thus.  I feel so fake, so angry, so as if my mother "wins" as I smile, say nothing more and usually change the subject.  I know part of it is society, the inablity of "normal" people to see "abnormal" lives, but still, still, it seems so unjust.  How do you guys handle this?  And even among those who have been there, too- how do you justify saying, "This happened, this was wrong" not simply, "I'll move on with a smile and pretend it's normal mother-daughter difficulty"? I think we have a right to our truth, but how to express it? Howhealthy can it be to always swallow the abuse with a polite nod?

I think the truth is the best.  Of course, not all situations you find yourself in permit such but when they do say things like... .


"Well, two women just can't get along."  You say "So you guys behave like this in your family, too?  Wow.  I had not idea it was so rappant."

"Your mother loves you very much."  Uh, you know, healthy people might not call that love unless they live that way, too."

When people make excuses to kill I assume they think killing is okay.  Soul killing included.

[GeekyGirl]

There are some good suggestions here!

• Only discuss things with the people directly involved



• Don't get defensive



• Stick to the facts



• Try not to get too worried about what others think

I've said, "I know that you mean well, and that's kind of you to try to help, but this is between me and my mother," more than a couple of times. Most people will respect that. If you think about it, you're just setting a limit with someone else about your mother.

[PaGuy]

"I know that you mean well, and that's kind of you to try to help, but this is between me and my mother,"

I really like this and wish I had this line when things with my family really flared up.

Now, I tend to say that my mother has a pervasive mental health issue.  Most people couldn't change topics soon enough.  Of course, with the "This is between us" line, either one will probably come out depending on the situation.

It really used to bother me when people would tell me my mother was an angel, would die some time, and ask why I couldn't just get along with her (or tell my wife this is normal in-law problems).  What has really helped me through this is that I no longer look for validation from everyone that knows of the broken relationship.  I really appreciate the validation I receive here - and it has helped in my own healing - but I don't expect it from those who haven't lived with a pwBPD.  I have also accepted the fact that my BPDm abused me most of my life.  If we don't expect a person in a domestic violence situation to stay with their partner, why should it be expected of me to seek a relationship with my mother?  And, frankly, why should those outside of the situation care what my relationship is like with my mother?  It really isn't any of their business.

[Cordelia]

This used to bother me a lot too.  To my surprise, it's started to bother me less, as I get more comfortable and confident in my decisions about managing my relationship with my mom.  I've found that my sensitivity to criticism - on any topic - is greatly aggravated when I myself am not confident about the decisions I've made, and so I'm seeking validation and reassurance that my approach is the correct one.  When I've put a ton of thought and consideration and time into an issue - like my relationship with my mom - I just don't expect people who haven't spent an equivalent amount of time considering the situation to really understand or come to the same conclusion.  And many times I think people's invalidation comes from an innocent place.  They want to see people get along, and they want happiness for you in your close relationships, and they don't have experience with people who are truly poisonous, truly toxic and dangerous to be around.  Good for them!  That's their experience.  I'm happy for them that they haven't had to go through the same kind of pain that I did, and appreciate their general POV (people should try to be kind and understand each other, etc).  But that doesn't make their opinion correct for my situation.  They simply don't understand it accurately.  I can't take their opinion any more seriously than if my aunt who believes in crystal healing weighs in on my broken leg.  The person is just on a different wavelength, and their opinion is not relevant to the situation.  Just be polite and move on.  As you develop confidence and strength this really will bother you less. 

[Fransisca]

When I was reading Toxic Parents a part of the book that really stood out to me was the idea of an Enlightened Witness. This is someone who understands your situation for what it really is and empathizes with you. It can be a therapist or a friend. Do you have access to someone like this that you could talk to, even a counselor or maybe an online friend?

I have a friend with a very difficult and emotionally incestuous mother and it is extremely comforting when I talk to him and he understands. Neither of us try to fix each other or dispense advice, we just listen to each other.

My friend is different from my dear hubby, who hasn't had the same problems in his family so he can't relate in the same way. My husband is really understanding, however he positions himself as the Rescuer when I am feeling down about my situation. He wants to fix it and since I have placed myself in the Victim corner we fall into a Karpman triangle game. The problem is that he can't save me no matter how hard he tries. The problem is also that I'm not really looking to be rescued, just heard, but I still put myself in the victim corner. So, instead of feeling saved by him trying to fix it I feel minimized and invalidated. He's frustrated because he doesn't know what I want and can't seem to help.

Now that I understand the triangle a little more when I'm in a position of feeling misunderstood by people I check myself. Am I putting myself in the victim corner/Karpman triangle? What reaction am I expecting? What am I actually looking for with this interaction and is it fair to the other person?

It seems like a lot of friends and acquaintances don't know how to react to something serious like parents abusing their children so when they say something meant to soothe it comes out insensitive and flippant to the person who has experienced the abuse. It's usually invalidating and a lot of times they are being an unsuccessful Rescuer. In my experience it's best to share with enlightened witnesses and change the subject with most everyone else. The validation that I really need at this point has to come from me, not them, anyway.

[waverider]

The problem is that outsiders only witness isolated 'incidents'. many of which could occur in many turbulent but otherwise normal families. The difference in a BPD family is the endless frequency and depth of real hate (not merely frustration bursts) of these "line crossing" dramas, no one can see or experience that.

[Cordelia]

Now that I understand the triangle a little more when I'm in a position of feeling misunderstood by people I check myself. Am I putting myself in the victim corner/Karpman triangle? What reaction am I expecting? What am I actually looking for with this interaction and is it fair to the other person?

This is a little off topic but wow, I really appreciate hearing about using the Karpman triangle in this way!  I've used it to analyze situations I've been in in the past before, or situations between others, but rarely to understand the dynamics of my own behavior in the moment.  Bravo and thank you for sharing - I'm going to try this as well. 

[Lunira]

Dear Friends,

I am sure that so many of you have had this happen- others blaming you, or minimizing or simply shrugging off your problems with your abusive parent.  How did/do you handle it?  In my case, I know, and make no apologies for saying, that the abuse I suffered and still suffer was/is real.  Yet, outside of this board, no one gets it.  People who witness wild acts of my mother (such as her calling the police to my work, threatening me with a gun) smile, shrug and say, "Well, two women just can't get along."  Or,  inevitably, "Your mother loves you very much, you only have one Mom, someday she will be gone... .  " I admit it makes me angry.  I don't ask these people for advice, for help- that is fruitless.  They simply witness something and comment thus.  I feel so fake, so angry, so as if my mother "wins" as I smile, say nothing more and usually change the subject.  I know part of it is society, the inablity of "normal" people to see "abnormal" lives, but still, still, it seems so unjust.  How do you guys handle this?  And even among those who have been there, too- how do you justify saying, "This happened, this was wrong" not simply, "I'll move on with a smile and pretend it's normal mother-daughter difficulty"? I think we have a right to our truth, but how to express it? Howhealthy can it be to always swallow the abuse with a polite nod?

First, I try the "I'm glad you apparently have a functional family, not all of us were that lucky." angle, to get them to see sense.  If that doesn't work and they start trying to "explain" and justify my mother's behavior to me, I say something like... .  

"So, let me see if I understand this properly.  You're going to stand there and explain a woman to me that I've known my whole life and that you've never even met, while telling me I don't know what I'm talking about?  Really?  Frankly, it's presumptuous and condescending to say the least, and I don't appreciate it."

The few people I've finally had to say this to all backed off pretty quick, and changed the subject.  

I'm pretty sure one of them thinks I'm a b*tch over it too, but I really don't care.  I have chosen not to waste the remainder of my life apologizing to unhealthy people and to enablers for having boundaries and for being me, and as far as I'm concerned, anyone who can't "get" that can just keep right on not getting it.  Not my problem.

[redroom]

I love the advice here.  I couldn't agree more!  One thing I did want to point out is that sometimes people will ask you things or make comments out of genuine concern, and it helps to let them know that there's nothing to worry about (or that's really their business). 

For example, every so often someone will ask why I'm spending the holidays alone.  I try to turn it into a positive.  I may say something like "I'm just not that close with my family, but it's so nice to have a few days off to relax!" 

If I, not knowing you extremely well and not knowing your situation were to ask you something relatively innocent like that, and your answer was a sad one, my instinct would be to try to help or understand what was going on.  So if I came from a normal, happy family, I might say something like "but you know they love you.  You should go."  I'd mean well, and probably naively think that my platitude would cheer you up and heal your pain, but I'd be so off the mark.  There are so many people out there who've had happy lives with little tragedy and don't understand what we've gone through, and they aren't aware that their attempts to be helpful are anything but that.

And of course, there are those out there who are just nosy or thick-headed... .   

But in any case, unless you want to go into more detail, it's best to just deflect their question.  You don't have to lie and say that your life is great and everything's going well.  Just find a way to deflect what they've said (humor works), and don't leave it open-ended or overly sad (save the overly sad parts for those closest to you). 

Some examples:

"I'm spending Thanksgiving here.  My family just lives too far away."

"I'm not a holiday person."

"I just don't like sappy romance movies."

"We've decided not to exchange gifts this year."

"I took out student loans.  My family just wasn't able to help with college."

"I went my way, and she went hers."

"The phone works both ways.  If she wants to talk to me, she's more than welcome to call."

"I just prefer to live alone."

I put in the examples because sometimes I have trouble w/ my words... .    It's all these meds I'm on. 

[DontGiveUpOnMe]

My favorite is "You should'nt live in the past"

I'm sorry but my past is my present.

[VeryFree]

I'm only discussing issues about my past r/s with trustworthy friends.

All others I will just say: we had a bad break-up and I rather not talk about it now. Just behave to the both of us like you did before.

I don't want people to take sides. Some do, but that's their choice. I will not push them in either direction. I know that will work out in my best interest in the long term.

[simplesimon]

Or,  inevitably, "Your mother loves you very much, you only have one Mom, someday she will be gone... . " I admit it makes me angry.  I don't ask these people for advice, for help- that is fruitless. 

I had this experience during the early days of NC with BPDm... . I told the well meaning family and friends "you have no idea what my mom is like behind close doors or what I have gone through so if you want to continue this conversation you will not discuss it or I will hang up/walk away"

It was a boundry of sorts and most people backed down (with that big eyed she-is-crazy look in their eye ).  But at the end of the day they will judge because they don't and most can't understand what the abuse does to us and how it affects us.

Or when they say "one day she will be gone" I did jump up and yell "YEAH HOO!  I CAN'T WAIT!" - probably not appropriate

[Deb]

"So, let me see if I understand this properly.  You're going to stand there and explain a woman to me that I've known my whole life and that you've never even met, while telling me I don't know what I'm talking about?  Really?  Frankly, it's presumptuous and condescending to say the least, and I don't appreciate it."

Boy, I plan to use this when the enabler starts telling people how I turned my nieces against their mother! Not exactly, but a variation. The enabler has only met one of the 2 nieces who refuse to speak to their dBPD mother. Yet she tells everyone how I turned them against their mommy. Oh, yeah, sure. The irony is i was the last one defending my whacko sister. Both women (my nieces) have told me at seperate times that the only reason they survived their childhood was because mommy dearest couldn't figure out how to get away with murdering them. And I believe them since their mother (my one and only sib) tried to kill me too.

[Rubies]

It took me decades to bluntly state to people they haven't witnessed what's done when there are not witnesses, and they cannot see the scars from improperly healed wounds.  Then I tell them I am glad they have nice mommies and nice families who would never try to destroy others for their own entertainment.  I wish I had that too, but I don't.

It's very tough when people consistently tell you your BPD abuser is "Such a nice lady."

[XL]

I'm a little more devious. I'm trying to shove her off on people who DO take her side, so I don't have to entertain her anymore. You think she's a saint? By all means,  go have lunch. Hell, invite her to live on your property. Please.

My present boyfriend is very, very normal and sheltered. Some of the things I've repeated have gotten a major "what. the. hell." response from him. I don't think he totally understands, but it's reassuring that someone normal is appalled, since the fixer siblings usually take her side and baby her.

[yamada]

I just come here. Though having said that it is amazing the amount of people who see through them starting off with my kids I am proud to say.

[waverider]

That well meaning phrase "treat others how they treat you" means that those who are presented with the "pleasant facade" will automatically treat these disordered people as though the nice "facade" is their only facade, so that you are the one being unreasonable.

You can't really blame them, it would be equally unfair to believe someone is nasty just on someone else's say so. After all they would then equally be swayed by the false accusations of the pwBPD against you.

Staying completely neutral goes against human instinct.

Best just to get on with your life and not be overly influenced by what others may think.

A pwBPD can totally mess with the reality perceptions of everyone around them, and by use of triangulation can easily set one person against the next, for no real reasons but their own need for validation. Just stay outside that triangle, dont play your part.

[Sasha026]

Good topic!

You cannot deal with it if the people who see her craziness don't want to believe what she is like. After my mother had her stroke and she was in the nursing home I got a card from my cousin letting me know that he drove a few hours to visit her and kind of prodded me to do the same (I lived 12 hours away from her). When I told him (and he actually witnessed the abuse) what she was like, his response was, "well you two just never got along". GOT ALONG? What were we? High school chums? What did she do, throw me out of our shared locker? Steal my boyfriend?

He saw it. Her neighbors saw it. Her family saw it. Her friends saw it. But, they all chose not to actually SEE it and blamed me instead. For years, I said nothing. When I finally did summon up the nerve to say something, it was too engrained in their heads so they took the comfortable way out. I was bad, she was the victim. This is why I didn't go to her funeral... . like I needed people staring at me for being a bad daughter.

There is so much I could say on this matter but the point I want to make is that it's fruitless to try to defend yourself. You have done nothing wrong and need to believe it. Just recently, I had a dream that I was defending myself, yet again, to someone with no face about my lack of compassion regarding my mother's stroke. I woke up in a mean mood that day, looked in the mirror and said, "and it still goes on".

My advice to all - miles. Lots and lots of them between you and her. It's the only thing that helps you heal.

[yamada]

Sasha well said.  i don need to say anything as you told my story.  My parents arnt dead, but my sister is a monster to me and blames me for everything that I should have tolerated or according to her started.  yep my pedo uncle... . my fault. You cannot argue with borderline. They avoid the argument and the topic and the responsibility And they will dragg others in like a school yard bhit fight. According to my sister EVERYONE knows I have problems. But its noone I kniow... .

[BlueCat]

 

How to deal? I really don't know. It's tainting my relationship with my entire family now. Everyone in my family has seen my mother's rage. They've either been the target of it or they've witnessed her releasing it on others. I've been part of many, many conversations where we discussed her and what a psycho she can be. But I decide to stop talking and actually walk away from the abuse and now I'm the problem.

My aunt has told me she "supports" me, but her version of support is that she won't talk to me about it or listen to me tell my story. She tells me my mother loves me, tells me my mother had a hard childhood and then says she supports both of us. But she listens to my mother talk about me. She doesn't see how hypocritical that is. Well, maybe she does. She's told me she's scared of her sister so I think it's just self preservation.

And a sister-in-law emailed me telling me to get help. I emailed back and detailed why I no longer talk to my mother and sister (including forwarding to her the hateful email my sister just sent me). She wrote back "I am sorry you did not have a happy childhood.  We all have issues. " And that was all she said about what I had written about my mother's abuse over the years. I had spelled out that my mother was doing things to *my children* and doing things recently, it was not just me talking about my past, and she said nothing about that. (but then she did go on to tell me what she thought of my kids so maybe she just doesn't care about them).  

So yeah, I'm the problem because I won't sit for it anymore.

Isn't it weird? I mean, if a spouse was treating us like this we'd be supported in leaving (well, in society in general at least - maybe not in a crazy family). But because it's someone we happened to be related to by genetics we're supposed to take the abuse and ask for more.

I don't have any quick and easy advice for you   It's hard. It hurts. I don't know what to tell you other than that we're in the same boat here. You're obviously not alone.  Hang in there