how to deal with people who like to argue

[Our abuse recovery guide]

This past Christmas was the first one that went by with me NC with my mom, but my younger sister did come to visit over the weekend.

I was quickly reminded why I don't really like being around her much either. She either has milder BPD or has at least picked up some fleas from our mom.

For example, my husband and I hardly ever argue or bicker, but when she was around we started doing that, even in front of my husband's family, which was kind of embarassing. (It was when we were getting ready to go see a movie, and I just said something to my husband that he needed to hurry up or we're going to be late, and he still had some things he felt he needed to do before we left, and then it got all out of hand.)

Later, when we were talking about the incident alone, we figured out my sister had actually made it worse, chiming in when she saw we were having a disagreement and actually escalating the situation.

Now that I had figured out the problem, I started paying more attention, and sure enough, it's like she likes bickering and conflict. She'll start arguments over the most minor things. For example, another incident came up when she said something about how dirty my car is, and I said I usually have it washed when I get an oil change at a place that has a "free car wash with oil change" deal, but I've been busy lately with it being the holidays. She replies, "Well, you have a driveway. You could just wash it yourself. I never take my car to a car wash!" Long story short, it turned into this arguments of the pros and cons of washing your own car vs. doing it yourself, yeesh! 

She's really like a less severe version of my mom, arguing with everything I say and criticizing everything I do. I'm NC with my mom right now, but I thought I could handle my sister. And for the most part I can, but it's certainly not pleasent to be around her. I'm glad she didn't actually stay for Christmas.

The idea came to me that I could try using my sister as practice for dealing with my mom. I'm sure these are habits she's picked up from mom.

So do any of your family members act this way? Like they almost enjoy starting fights and arguments? I think my sister and I went in opposite directions, since I try to avoid conflict as much as possible, to what may be an unhealthy degree. I'm not really sure how to de-escalate it once I see it starting, like when my husband and I started to fight about him making us late for the movie (we actually ended up getting there early anyway). I just started to kind of panic, thinking, "We never fight! What's going on?" and tried to drop the whole thing, change the subject, but by then my husband was upset enough that he kept going on about it with my sister, and it just kept escalating.

This is how every day was with my family, so I'm glad I got away from it.

[Gerda]

This past Christmas was the first one that went by with me NC with my mom, but my younger sister did come to visit over the weekend.

I was quickly reminded why I don't really like being around her much either. She either has milder BPD or has at least picked up some fleas from our mom.

For example, my husband and I hardly ever argue or bicker, but when she was around we started doing that, even in front of my husband's family, which was kind of embarassing. (It was when we were getting ready to go see a movie, and I just said something to my husband that he needed to hurry up or we're going to be late, and he still had some things he felt he needed to do before we left, and then it got all out of hand.)

Later, when we were talking about the incident alone, we figured out my sister had actually made it worse, chiming in when she saw we were having a disagreement and actually escalating the situation.

Now that I had figured out the problem, I started paying more attention, and sure enough, it's like she likes bickering and conflict. She'll start arguments over the most minor things. For example, another incident came up when she said something about how dirty my car is, and I said I usually have it washed when I get an oil change at a place that has a "free car wash with oil change" deal, but I've been busy lately with it being the holidays. She replies, "Well, you have a driveway. You could just wash it yourself. I never take my car to a car wash!" Long story short, it turned into this arguments of the pros and cons of washing your own car vs. doing it yourself, yeesh! 

She's really like a less severe version of my mom, arguing with everything I say and criticizing everything I do. I'm NC with my mom right now, but I thought I could handle my sister. And for the most part I can, but it's certainly not pleasent to be around her. I'm glad she didn't actually stay for Christmas.

The idea came to me that I could try using my sister as practice for dealing with my mom. I'm sure these are habits she's picked up from mom.

So do any of your family members act this way? Like they almost enjoy starting fights and arguments? I think my sister and I went in opposite directions, since I try to avoid conflict as much as possible, to what may be an unhealthy degree. I'm not really sure how to de-escalate it once I see it starting, like when my husband and I started to fight about him making us late for the movie (we actually ended up getting there early anyway). I just started to kind of panic, thinking, "We never fight! What's going on?" and tried to drop the whole thing, change the subject, but by then my husband was upset enough that he kept going on about it with my sister, and it just kept escalating.

This is how every day was with my family, so I'm glad I got away from it.

[justnothing]

You said that your sister chimed in and helped further escalate the arguments with your husband once they started… but what I find intriguing is that, even though you usually never fight with your husband at all, somehow your sister's very presence (maybe listening to her negative banter?) managed to bring about the fights in the first place… Do you find that being around your family influences your personality (at the time) a lot? If so, would you say that this kind of thing only happens with your family or possibly with other people or certain types of other people, as well?

You also said that you like to avoid conflict as much as possible to a maybe unhealthy degree… why do you feel you do that? When the other person (not your sister) expresses an opinion that you don't agree with… what effect does it have on you? What are you afraid might happen if you stand your ground and refuse to compromise about your own belief or conviction?

I didn't have exactly the same problem with my mom… but what I can say is that there were a lot of things I used to hide from her (I didn't like it at first but over the years I started hiding more and more from her until I ended up refusing to tell her about even miniscule details about my life) because I was terrified of her criticism because somehow her influence on me was so great that "she'd manage" to completely change my views and the way I felt about anything she'd criticize… somehow she "had the power" to plant doubt in my mind about the men I dated and the people I hung out with and just about anything she wanted to alter my opinion about… Nowadays I realize that that's BS though… she never actually had that kind of power over me – I just gave her that power because I didn't have enough conviction in my own beliefs (and at least some part of that came from feeling like I didn't have a "right" to have my own opinions and stick to them).

It sounds like you do have the ability to engage in conflict with your sister but it irritates you a lot. Maybe if you had the ability to tell yourself that you have a right to be the way you are and do things the way you choose, it wouldn't be as irritating.

For example, if you could be completely "wholesome" (idk how else to put it) with your decision to only have your car washed when you have your oil changed and with your feeling that that's clean enough for your own standards – then maybe you could be more like "yeah, whatever", when your sister suggests that you should clean it more often…

[GeekyGirl]

I've noticed that some people generally like arguments--not just people with BPD or family members. The best tactic is to not engage or get into the argument, because once you're in the argument, it's hard to get out.

So, if your sister points out how dirty your car is, you can ignore her comment or say something like, "You're right. It is dirty. How about we go back inside now and have some dessert?" You can use similar tactics to validate what she said and go back to whatever else is going on. You now expect some sort of argument or confrontation from her, so you can prepare for it.

[Justadude]

My ex always likes to have the verbal upper hand as well as be verbally abusive. When I initially was dating her when she said she was prideful I didn't think to monitor how that would workout between us.

Here is how a fight would start between my ex and I. I'd drop off our daughter and shed ask me to do X. I'd wouldn't do X correctly. For example I'd start taking off our daughters snow pants and shed but in and say, "you can't do it like that". Inside that's when I blow up. Like What the heck? My first reaction is to fight but I realize if I do it in front of our daughter or anything it's just going to get worse so I ignore it only to feel worthless later. It's stupid petty things like that that could easily start an argument by me becoming defensive and attacked.

Here is another scenario, yesterday I am picking up our daughter and she's not feeling good. I am sitting with her new guy making a little small talk and she says you can go back to her room. So I do and she eventually follows me typical. I mean I obviously am capable of talking and getting our daughter going but she comes in and interrupts. I say she's just acting like a baby and needs to be played with because her mom watches a baby and as of recently she's pretended to be a baby, typical preschooler stuff. She says well no it's because she's sick. I'm like ok, at this point I could have started another petty argument but I just nodded my head and was like ok.

On the inside I want to defend my way of looking at things and her need to always be on top and be in control is infuriating because i end up feeling worthless and devalued as a person.

For me I'm looking inside myself for why I feel that way to prevent feeling low during those scenarios. I don't have any answers for you, but that's my analysis. Now I just need to be able to express my feelings appropriately so she gets the point or if it's even worth the effort I mean if I figure out why I feel so worthless I do that taking away the stick thing. Have you heard of that story?

“I read a story about a Zen seeker who goes to the master and sits across the table at tea time. The Zen master holds a stick in his hand, and he says, “If you drink your tea, I will hit you with this stick. If you don’t drink your tea, I will hit you with this stick.” So what do you do? Well, I think I figured it out. Take away the stick.”

[real lady]

Hi   Gerda... .

Now that I had figured out the problem, I started paying more attention, and sure enough, it's like she likes bickering and conflict. She'll start arguments over the most minor things.

omg, my uBPDSO even says "NOW, you are trying to start a fight"... .or "You must be wanting to fight with me about this"... .constantly... .

The idea came to me that I could try using my sister as practice for dealing with my mom. I'm sure these are habits she's picked up from mom.

I would say that it is good practice to SET and KEEP boundaries with her will be great habits to have in dealing with mom.

So do any of your family members act this way? Like they almost enjoy starting fights and arguments?

OH YES, definitely and constantly. I am giving more of a "blank look" and showing that I disagree to the point of saying "I don't want to talk about it because I don't feel like BEING YELLED AT and having you argue with me about it"... .

I just wondered this yesterday; I wonder if they feel they MUST try to start a fight in order to "justify the rage" they have inwardly.

yesterday, my son and I were talking, he interrupts and intervenes and I set a boundary and say "I was talking TO my son"... .and then he dysregulates because I had (intentionally bothered him)"interrupted his thought" (he was reading about researching a product that he eventually went out and bought) and he "went off" on how I interrupted him... .I looked at him, a bit sternly and I apologized for "bothering him" and told him that I would NOT be talking with him while he was reading and to "Go back to what you were doing and mind your own business". He said nothing and seemed to de-escalate emotionally from there.

Good job with NC with your mom and I would "let it be a warning" to your sister (without threatening NC with her) of your reasons WHY you have NC with mom... .you have the RIGHT to decide on your participation in any relationship by constantly reminding her of how you "do not like" her "picking fights with you" by setting a boundary with her and say to her "When you try to pick a fight with me that I think will NOT be productive for our relationship, I am going to leave the room... .if you will respect me, think about it and allow us to talk rationally about it, then I will reconvene with you BUT if you continue this, I am sure that you will understand my reasons for NC with mom. I want to have a GOOD relationship with you if you are willing to try".

Good luck and HAPPY New Year.

[waverider]

It takes two people to get into this particular shoot out. A persistent arrogant opinionated person faced with a chronic insecure JADEr and it turns into a bloodbath.

Now you have seen it for what it is you are half way to seeing your own JADE behavior. Remove that, and also the fear of slipping into it and it just becomes a monologue that you can emotionally tune out of, and becomes totally unrewarding for the protagonist

[real lady]

Now you have seen it for what it is you are half way to seeing your own JADE behavior. Remove that, and also the fear of slipping into it and it just becomes a monologue that you can emotionally tune out of, and becomes totally unrewarding for the protagonist

 This is SO TRUE waverider... .I have found that the LESS EMOTIONAL ENERGY I put into trying to figure out my uBPDSO's behavior, the LESS I commit to trying to engage in what I would like as meaningful conversation... .it just doesn't happen with them often. AND I HAVE found that it "becomes totally unrewarding" for the pwBPD when "they win without a fight from us". Sometimes the only way to win with a BPD is to "give up".

[Gerda]

It takes two people to get into this particular shoot out. A persistent arrogant opinionated person faced with a chronic insecure JADEr and it turns into a bloodbath.

Ah yes, JADE. I had forgotten about that. But that's a good point. How often I get my car washed is none of her business. But it's like when she or my mom criticize me, I automatically go into defense mode.

Yes, I am pretty insecure. No doubt because of growing up with a mom who criticizes everything I do. It's like I can't do anything right, even all sorts of stupid minor things. So then my sister's picked up this habit.

And my husband JADEs too. Even after I disengaged from the conversation about car washing, he kept going, saying something about how it's cheaper to get it professionally washed than doing it ourselves, since it uses so much water. Sister replied saying something like, "Oh, I'm sure washing your car wouldn't put THAT much of a dent in your water bill!"

Later after she had left, husband was like, "That brat has never paid a water bill in her life!" (she's still financially supported by our parents) and then added that he always thinks of the good comebacks too late.

You said that your sister chimed in and helped further escalate the arguments with your husband once they started… but what I find intriguing is that, even though you usually never fight with your husband at all, somehow your sister's very presence (maybe listening to her negative banter?) managed to bring about the fights in the first place… Do you find that being around your family influences your personality (at the time) a lot? If so, would you say that this kind of thing only happens with your family or possibly with other people or certain types of other people, as well?

I also realized later that I was already in a bad mood before my husband even got home from work, before we had the little "fight" about being late for the movie. My husband's family had already come over to meet up for the movie, and my MIL was showing my sister our wedding album (we just got married in March). MIL was saying something about how beautiful I looked, and sis said something like, "Yeah, she cleans up pretty good!" and then started going on about how much trouble it was for her to help me with my makeup.

It's true, I'm kind of a tomboy and am not really that much into hair and makeup, but here she is ripping into me about what a mess I am and how much trouble it was for her to get me looking decent for my wedding.

So I was already feeling pretty attacked and insulted and in a bad mood before my husband even showed up.

So yes, certainly being around my family puts me in a more negative mood, and could possibly alter my personality as well. It could possibly get me more irritable, so I'm more likely to get into arguments. It's like this cloud of negativity comes over the place when my mom or sister are around.

My previous therapist said something like, "Everyone becomes a different person in front of their mother," but I really don't like the person I become. It's like I go back to being 15 years old again.