Doubting Your Own Perceptions

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Do you guys ever doubt your own perceptions?

In my case, I have a hard time not blaming myself for her rages. She, of course, had no problem with that. It was always my fault either because of the immediate thing I was doing or because of the larger issues that she identified in the relationship (my lack of commitment). I can easily see that the smaller things were not my fault. For sure. She would freak out about the most random things and made them out to be these vicious attacks. Petting a dog or being groggy in the morning or rolling over in my sleep is not my fault But, I wasn't committed. I was horribly uncommitted. I was about as uncommitted as I could get without her being a stranger.

But, I have hard, hard time connecting to and staying connected the perception and understanding that her behavior was not my fault. That my non-commitment could not have caused her rage and outbursts. That her rage and outbursts were the reason for my being uncommitted. But still. I find it hard. I easily get into self-blaming mode. And when I stay there, I think she is the greatest thing in the world and I was such an idiot for not committing to her.

Does anyone else have this problem? Does anyone else have trouble seeing their ex's rages as real? Does anyone else continue to blame themselves and live in this warped reality?

Has anyone been there and gotten out of it? If so, what did you do?

[willy45]

Do you guys ever doubt your own perceptions?

In my case, I have a hard time not blaming myself for her rages. She, of course, had no problem with that. It was always my fault either because of the immediate thing I was doing or because of the larger issues that she identified in the relationship (my lack of commitment). I can easily see that the smaller things were not my fault. For sure. She would freak out about the most random things and made them out to be these vicious attacks. Petting a dog or being groggy in the morning or rolling over in my sleep is not my fault But, I wasn't committed. I was horribly uncommitted. I was about as uncommitted as I could get without her being a stranger.

But, I have hard, hard time connecting to and staying connected the perception and understanding that her behavior was not my fault. That my non-commitment could not have caused her rage and outbursts. That her rage and outbursts were the reason for my being uncommitted. But still. I find it hard. I easily get into self-blaming mode. And when I stay there, I think she is the greatest thing in the world and I was such an idiot for not committing to her.

Does anyone else have this problem? Does anyone else have trouble seeing their ex's rages as real? Does anyone else continue to blame themselves and live in this warped reality?

Has anyone been there and gotten out of it? If so, what did you do?

[willy45]

Oh... .  just to add to that... .  

Do you guys ever think to yourself... .  Oh, it wasn't that bad... .  And then beat yourself up for leaving? Or beat yourself up for not taking it?

[Changed4safety]

My exBPDbf was a master at manipulating things so that what he said somehow made sense.  A few hours later, I'd "come to" and see the illogic, but at the time when he would rage at me I couldn't seem to find a proper counter.  Mainly because all I wanted was for the raging to stop.  He had two modes of thinking:  Everything was my fault, and he was blameless, or everything was his fault, and he was a horrible person and deserved to die.  He even went for the gun twice to kill himself.  It was "better" if I assumed the blame, at least I wouldn't be responsible for him killing himself.  

And yet, and yet, I just broke down hearing one of "our songs" and desperately want to contact him.  I see only how he has improved this year, not the ways in which he has stayed the same; I see only that someone wants/wanted to marry me, not the cost of that (and oh there was... .  violence, broken things, choking incidents, and a price tag of over $100,000).  No wonder it was easy for him to get me to blame myself, I clearly have a problem with reality.  But I am still not with him, at least at this moment, and I am proud of that.  And upon reflection, most (not all, admittedly, but the vast majority) of what he blamed me for was NOT my fault.

[Seahorse1]

Yes!

I'm doing that right now... .  

I blame my self for not handling his insecurity better... .  

The small things like yOu mentioned... .  

He would question me incessantly about all my exes.  I answered the same questions over and over until I had no patience left... .  

Then the big issues... .  Very big issues... .  I wonder could I have been more patient with?

Today I am struggling with intense anxiety over leaving him... .  

And I have very valid reasons this time... .  Physical abuse... .  Yet I am some how doubting my perception of what hapenned... .  

There is so much chaos that I usually end up forgetting previous bad times and just miss the good... .  

I hope time changes my perception

[GustheDog]

Did you play a role in this?  Yes, we all did.  But, no, blaming yourself for the extreme and irrational nature of her behaviors, and the severe pain she's inflicted upon you, is wrong.  That's not your fault. 

For example, probably in part because I place a high value on logical argument, I used what I now know to be JADE a lot with my ex, especially near the end.  I would stand up for myself and assert that her positions and tantrums made no sense.  Of course, that's absolutely, 100% correct from a how-most-people-experience-the-world perspective.  But this was not at all conducive to smoothing things over with her, or persuading her to "see the light," as it were.  Her perceptions were real - if distorted - and so was the pain I caused her.  But I didn't know or understand that at the time, and I don't think I acted unreasonably by getting frustrated.  Also, you can regret not being "committed" till you're blue in the face, just as I can regret how I should have communicated better or tried harder not to be so brash or raise my voice at times.  But I'm pretty convinced at this point that there will always be something to hate us for - something that we did to hurt them, something that's "our fault," and that "made" them do what they did to us. 

My ex kitchen-sinked things at me that happened in the first couple of weeks of our relationship to help her justify her abrupt departure.  A month prior we were house shopping and talking marriage.

How long ago did you break up?  You'll get over this hurdle - took me a solid 4-6 weeks to stop blaming myself.  I even wrote elaborate apology letters and spent about $1000 on jewelry and other gifts that I sent to her.  None of it made any difference.

[Slowlybutsurely]

JO,

Yes, I do all that you've mentioned, but it's gotten so much better and less with time. It's more than a year NC, but I still find myself doing the incessant thought loops sometimes (when I'm feeling lonely or depressed, mainly), and I tell myself, "i'm doing the loops and obsessive thoughts again, isn't this interesting, why is this happening right now, on this day, what is my larger mood, etc"  I've meditated a bit in the last year, and it's really helped me not to get as carried away with my own thoughts. Sometimes I do still, though, and I recall how bad it was for almost a year. Continual doubting and obsessing and thinking and self blame.  I journalled and made lists of all the things she did, and all the crazy situations, and thought/wrote through the whole thing (over 500 single spaced pages... .  yeah). Now, when I doubt myself again, I start reading it, and I remember, and I realize once again (for the millionth time) that it wasn't all my fault, that I literally did all I could do and then some, more than any normal healthy person would EVER do, and then the thought loops subside again.

This has been a grueling experience. Like none other ever. They say this kind of experience is classic getting out of a BPD relationship.  We need to remind ourselves that no break up has ever been like this before. Has it? Why? Because they were disordered, and it has it's own very real traumatic impact on us.

It gets better, I can honestly say. Lots of work, but it gets better.

     

[Mupetto]

I too look back at my behaviours and at times I know I could have done more to sooth her and those chaotic emotions. And yes according to her I was always the trigger. How she could connect a feeling/thought from today to some behaviour I did two years previous was beyond me. But it became a cycle and like Pavlov’s dogs I would respond accordingly. She actually trained me to spot her black moods early and I developed a repertoire to mitigate the current mood. So in effect I became an enabler. I gave her permission to have these erratic mood swings and I did my best to sooth them. So she did her bit and I did mine. The relationship became this constant dysfunctional dance that neither of us enjoyed.

So yes I take some responsibility and did so as we increasingly fought. But she NEVER would. She would never forgive and never forget. It became impossible to live like that. It became clear to me that no matter what I did. No matter how perfect I was, I would always be wrong about something. I burnt out.

I am NOT going back. I have never been clearer about such a huge decision (to leave). I cannot influence her or give enlightenment – although I thought I could. I alone am unable to repair the relationship. It was always going to be “my fault”.

So for me the answer is yes – it was my fault. I enabled, when I should have formed boundaries. I engaged in conversations we should never have had. I am to blame for some of the dysfunction – but not all. A “normal” adult would forgive and move on. A “normal” adult would not distort, twist, or create a drama when the black cloud loomed. A “normal” adult would communicate with honesty and consistency to resolve matters affecting the relationship. A “normal” adult would take some responsibility.

[TonyK]

Do you guys ever think to yourself... .  Oh, it wasn't that bad... .  And then beat yourself up for leaving? Or beat yourself up for not taking it?

Are you kidding me? That's me in that description! I do that like... .  all the time!

[myself]

johnnyorganic,

You say you weren't committed. Didn't feel it, didn't live it. That's what you were going through at the time, how you saw it, being with her without any really deep connection. Her rages and other behaviors were hers, not yours. You didn't make her do those things. We each make our own moves. Even if someone is upset with you, they can still control themselves enough if they set their mind to it. If the person's mind is disordered, they have a much harder time being in control. If she isn't disordered, and was just upset that you were not commiting, then that's what it was. If she is disordered, it wouldn't have mattered what you did. You could have been the most committed person ever for her, and it wouldn't have worked out. But in either case, that was then. Beating yourself up about it now isn't going to change that. Taking care of yourself, and detaching from this doubt, will help you more. You'll never find the answer to this question, man. I'm really sorry, I went looking for it too (as have so many of us here) and it's just not out there. I'd guess that if you sat quietly with yourself for a while, and focused on the truth of this, you'd see about as close to the real heart of it as you're able to. Do that. Find some peace inside yourself. Best wishes to you, Happy New Year.

[charred]

Do you guys ever doubt your own perceptions?

In my case, I have a hard time not blaming myself for her rages. She, of course, had no problem with that. It was always my fault either because of the immediate thing I was doing or because of the larger issues that she identified in the relationship (my lack of commitment). I can easily see that the smaller things were not my fault. For sure. She would freak out about the most random things and made them out to be these vicious attacks. Petting a dog or being groggy in the morning or rolling over in my sleep is not my fault But, I wasn't committed. I was horribly uncommitted. I was about as uncommitted as I could get without her being a stranger.


Does anyone else have this problem? Does anyone else have trouble seeing their ex's rages as real? Does anyone else continue to blame themselves and live in this warped reality?

Has anyone been there and gotten out of it? If so, what did you do?

Yes, have same issue. Thing is logically... she made sense. I went through a divorce with her (divorcing my wife to be with her)... and she would get upset at any sign of being wishy-washy about anything. Was very matter of fact about what needed to be done, why and so forth, and I agreed with most of her reasoning about it, but had been married a long time and really had a lot of concerns. As it turns out I should have stayed married and forgone the pwBPD... but that doesn't relate to your question.

The splitting behavior that a lot of pwBPD people have... .  can have one good effect... and that is them being certain about something... .  my exBPDgf, was often wrong, but made decisions quickly and was very very firm on them... which was a lot of the problem. I have always valued the relationship over who was right/wrong, and wanted to keep things pleasant... she was all about absolutes.

So, when it came to my perceptions, I would argue that love is a continuum and that I loved my exwife, even exgirlfriends still, just not as much as her... .  and she would argue that was cheapening the idea of love that love has to be acted on and that if I still felt that way toward my exwife she was still my wife practically speaking... .  which sounded ridiculous, but then when grappling with all the issues of divorcing, I am leaning toward the pwBPD viewpoint, that I should have acted as though I felt nothing... .  and that kind of rethinking happens a lot.

I can look at most the big arguments we had and view them as her having a fairly sensible outlook and me being the one with the questionable views. However it is only arguments that were like that... .  the actions she often took were off the wall nutty... .  perfect examples of BPD behavior. She could argue hard for hours, but whenever the argument was over, she was near collapse... .  very emotionally shaken, but she would keep that from people, so what they saw was a passionate, resolute force to be reckoned with. Like a big gun, being controlled by a 3 yr old.

I trust my perceptions more than when I was with her, but I used to think I was a good judge of people, and she led me to disastrous life decisions in two different eras in my life (when I was about 23-25 and again at 46-50.) After that I find myself second guessing a bit and being gun shy of new people that seem very emotional and open.

Been gaslighted a number of times and know when it is happening, don't doubt perceptions then... its just when revisiting arguments... .  she had the better ones often.

[GustheDog]

I'm sure I took a few faulty positions in arguments, too.  But I kind of see being right or wrong from a normative staNPDoint as ancillary to the real issue when I think about whether or how much of this was "my fault" - that being the ability to accept and overlook ordinary human shortcomings.  I could, she couldn't.  For me, if determining whether to stay in a relationship was based around the number of weaknesses or shortcomings my ex had, I would have run for the hills after a few months.  This woman was, well, crazy.  And if I see these particular faults in the future, I assure you I will run.  But, generally speaking, I think about how I feel about a person as a whole affects me or makes me feel, which requires one to evaluate shortcomings as well as strengths simultaneously and consider the balance. 

Obviously, BPDs have trouble here, and, as it happened, I was all good and now I'm all bad to her - even though, from a non's perspective, I'm not all either.  All the kitchen-sinking and the abruptly being painted black was as ludicrous as it was painful.  I sometimes even find myself laughing (in a cryptic sort of way) about how all the reasons she gave for hating me - whether valid or not - existed just as prominently during the first 99% of our relationship as they did in the final 1%.  I didn't change.  She wanted to marry me despite these things but later despised me because of them.  Now THAT is not my fault.  I'm a human being; take me or leave me, just don't take me then leave me just for being me.

[Surnia]

Do you guys ever doubt your own perceptions?

Yes. It was very often, I didn't noticed it. And it had consequences. I was sure a lot of things are my faults, I could do it better.

Has anyone been there and gotten out of it? If so, what did you do?

First step was in T, to switch from ratio/logic to feelings. I had a very rational approach. My feelings? Were was my anger? Nearly inexistent. I started to validate my feelings.

A break through came with one of the books of P. Evans. About someone else is defining us. This was it what happend to me in childhood. So familiar. Others told me what I had to do, how I had to be, what I should not feel, how I should not be. The religious relatives let god define me. Spoken words were always stronger than my instincts.

Now I try to have all this back. I am learning to define myself. Very important to do so are my feelings. My instincts. It is daily work. 

[FogLight]

Maybe you're struggling with this because you feel like you have a reason to blame yourself, for being uncommitted.  I was in the same boat, I wasn't the most committed either in the sense that I wasn't ready to marry her, especially with all the pressure coming from her to do so.  I wondered too if this was the reason for her behavior, but now I realize there is almost no way an emotionally healthy, rational individual would behave the way she did under any circumstances.  I also had to ask myself why I was so reluctant to even think about marrying her, and honestly it's because I felt deep down that she wanted to marry me to secure some kind of control over me.  That reason alone should have been enough for me to leave the relationship, and I can only blame and forgive myself for not acting on it.  Don't blame yourself for her behaviors, but do take responsibility for your own actions, learn and grow from it, and forgive yourself.

[charred]

Obviously, BPDs have trouble here, and, as it happened, I was all good and now I'm all bad to her - even though, from a non's perspective, I'm not all either.  All the kitchen-sinking and the abruptly being painted black was as ludicrous as it was painful.  I sometimes even find myself laughing (in a cryptic sort of way) about how all the reasons she gave for hating me - whether valid or not - existed just as prominently during the first 99% of our relationship as they did in the final 1%.  I didn't change.  She wanted to marry me despite these things but later despised me because of them.  Now THAT is not my fault.  I'm a human being; take me or leave me, just don't take me then leave me just for being me.

I agree on that... also that I used reason/logic to the exclusion of feelings... almost always. In fact I switched from management to technical work to move from feelings to reason/logic long ago.

I have been horrible about being committed... lived with my now exwife some 13 yrs before actually marrying, but given my upbringing (dad NPD, mother passive-aggressive, divorced when I was teen, followed by disastrous relationship with my pwBPD)... I was in no hurry and didn't see what was in marriage for me. Bad thing is more than ever I question what is in a marriage for a guy, seems like a one sided insurance policy for the woman legally. Maybe I am bitter a bit, I worked 30 yrs, my exwife quit working 2 weeks after our daughter was born without even discussing it with me, she made same money I did... and she got 1/2 of everything I had saved over 30 yrs, and still gets money every month... .  mystified why... but thats our justice system. Anyway, my exBPDgf asked me to marry her two different times, once 27 yrs ago, and once about 2 yrs ago and I wasn't ready to jump on it either time, as there were so many issues that I couldn't commit either time. Used to kick myself for not taking the plunge the first time... .  but I would have had kids with her and OMG... .  dodged a bullet... second time, never a regret, it made no sense, it was her insecurity coming out.

Sounds like maybe we discount our own feelings/emotions and accept someone else's instead. I know I saw her as the expert on emotions... .  being the most emotional person I had ever met, and given how often/hard I had been hurt, would prefer to be a robot to keep from having feelings that could get hurt. So that would seem to mean that... .  jeez, we are needing to be validated? Must be some kind of ideal tie in with BPD on that.

[lookingahead]

Do you guys ever doubt your own perceptions?

I doubt my perceptions constantly. Even when something is completely irrational from my perspective, I think about how he's ill and I can handle my own emotions. Then I end up apologizing even though I know I didn't do anything that requires the level of tension that has been brought up by the incident.

I never know how to deal with that though. If I apologize, it settles the storm for a minute (well, until the next irrational outburst) but I feel very small and like I betrayed myself. But if I try to have a conversation and express my perspective on the incident, I'm being "defensive" and the cause of all his anger and stress. My feelings aren't considered, so I end up taking what feels like the path of least resistance and not expressing how I feel. But in the end, that's probably worse and sets patterns that are just repeated endlessly. It seems like a matter of training the mind to not get caught up in the other person's reality. But that's so hard to do in the moment.

[Changed4safety]

Do you guys ever doubt your own perceptions?

I doubt my perceptions constantly. Even when something is completely irrational from my perspective, I think about how he's ill and I can handle my own emotions. Then I end up apologizing even though I know I didn't do anything that requires the level of tension that has been brought up by the incident.

I never know how to deal with that though. If I apologize, it settles the storm for a minute (well, until the next irrational outburst) but I feel very small and like I betrayed myself. But if I try to have a conversation and express my perspective on the incident, I'm being "defensive" and the cause of all his anger and stress. My feelings aren't considered, so I end up taking what feels like the path of least resistance and not expressing how I feel. But in the end, that's probably worse and sets patterns that are just repeated endlessly. It seems like a matter of training the mind to not get caught up in the other person's reality. But that's so hard to do in the moment.

Oh man.  This.  This was my life.   

[GustheDog]

Maybe you're struggling with this because you feel like you have a reason to blame yourself, for being uncommitted.  I was in the same boat, I wasn't the most committed either in the sense that I wasn't ready to marry her, especially with all the pressure coming from her to do so.  I wondered too if this was the reason for her behavior, but now I realize there is almost no way an emotionally healthy, rational individual would behave the way she did under any circumstances.  I also had to ask myself why I was so reluctant to even think about marrying her, and honestly it's because I felt deep down that she wanted to marry me to secure some kind of control over me.  That reason alone should have been enough for me to leave the relationship, and I can only blame and forgive myself for not acting on it.  Don't blame yourself for her behaviors, but do take responsibility for your own actions, learn and grow from it, and forgive yourself.

Yes, my ex pressured hard for marriage as well, and I, too, was very reluctant.  Even though I thought I wanted the same thing, there was something on almost an instinctual level that was holding me back.  In retrospect, I believe it's because I knew subconsciously that this woman would ruin me on all levels - emotionally, physically, financially, etc. 

[doingtheswim]

Do you guys ever doubt your own perceptions?

In my case, I have a hard time not blaming myself for her rages. She, of course, had no problem with that. It was always my fault either because of the immediate thing I was doing or because of the larger issues that she identified in the relationship (my lack of commitment). I can easily see that the smaller things were not my fault. For sure. She would freak out about the most random things and made them out to be these vicious attacks. Petting a dog or being groggy in the morning or rolling over in my sleep is not my fault But, I wasn't committed. I was horribly uncommitted. I was about as uncommitted as I could get without her being a stranger.

But, I have hard, hard time connecting to and staying connected the perception and understanding that her behavior was not my fault. That my non-commitment could not have caused her rage and outbursts. That her rage and outbursts were the reason for my being uncommitted. But still. I find it hard. I easily get into self-blaming mode. And when I stay there, I think she is the greatest thing in the world and I was such an idiot for not committing to her.

Does anyone else have this problem? Does anyone else have trouble seeing their ex's rages as real? Does anyone else continue to blame themselves and live in this warped reality?

Has anyone been there and gotten out of it? If so, what did you do?

Hi Johnny,

I understand and relate to your post in a great way.

You sound like me, as I tried to take complete responsibility for the relationship and it's downfall.

BIG MISTAKE.

It takes two.

While my ex would rage and do/say the most vile things, the bottom line is, her reactions, her choices are hers to make; not my reponsibility.

Just like my choice to not kick the crap out of her was mine as well : )

(I am proud of my own control)

Yes, logically it makes perfect sense, but emotionally its really something you need to ride out and consciously remind yourself over and over and over and over again.

Like myself, you are a man.

Flaws and all. All we can do is all we can do.

Try not to beat yourself up and eventually it will sink in.

Happy new year!

[charred]

Maybe you're struggling with this because you feel like you have a reason to blame yourself, for being uncommitted.  I was in the same boat, I wasn't the most committed either in the sense that I wasn't ready to marry her, especially with all the pressure coming from her to do so.  I wondered too if this was the reason for her behavior, but now I realize there is almost no way an emotionally healthy, rational individual would behave the way she did under any circumstances.  I also had to ask myself why I was so reluctant to even think about marrying her, and honestly it's because I felt deep down that she wanted to marry me to secure some kind of control over me.  That reason alone should have been enough for me to leave the relationship, and I can only blame and forgive myself for not acting on it.  Don't blame yourself for her behaviors, but do take responsibility for your own actions, learn and grow from it, and forgive yourself.

Yes, my ex pressured hard for marriage as well, and I, too, was very reluctant.  Even though I thought I wanted the same thing, there was something on almost an instinctual level that was holding me back.  In retrospect, I believe it's because I knew subconsciously that this woman would ruin me on all levels - emotionally, physically, financially, etc. 

Same here, my exBPDgf hinted then asked me to marry her multiple times. First time I really wanted to, however I was still a year from graduating in college, had started a business and thought it was better to wait till we both graduated... .  she dumped me not long after asking that time. More recently after we were back together, I was in the early steps of getting a divorce and was a complete emotional wreck... .  and I told her I would but not till I was divorced and had my senses back about me and was shure it was still what we wanted... .  she didn't dump me over it.

Outside of the exBPDgf, I have only had one other gal pressure me to marry her, and my senses screamed out "don't do it" and at the time I had no clear reason for the feeling. We had met as she was considering marrying a guy she had been on/off with for 4 yrs, during an off period we dated. Later she went back to him, married him, had kids with with him, sprayed him with lighter fluid and lit him, divorced and decided she was gay.

Will say the sex with the one that lit the guy up... .  even better than the exBPDgf... .  so I think there is something to the sex being better the more crazy they are... .  but I want a non-crazy for a change.

[exbpdgf]

Doubting your perceptions?... .  OMG yes all the time.

I didn't realize how dissociated and upside-down I was until at least 90 days NC (and about 4-6 months out of breakup).

-She would accuse me of gas-lighting her -I thought it was true and I'd never heard of this (now wonder if it's another indication that in fact she has more knowledge of her BPD than I knew)

-She would accuse me of anger/rage-in fact last time I broke up with her she THIS is why our r/s was never going to work (after 9 years)-so many times I bought this, after the r/s I am stunned at how much of her rage I put up with

-She would accuse me of "kitchen sinking" it-again, figured it was true (since things never did seem to get resolved)

-She would tell me I apologize too soon (so she said she never got a chance-I remember one apology from her in 9 years!)

As far as commitment goes, I was so concerned about the lack of commitment and lack of deepening in our r/s, that I resolved to "go all in" on my end and to really look at my side of the street. I even told her I was doing this (but also said that I would not stay in a sexless r/s either, that at some point I'd be done with this). We tried counseling, but she kept throwing a wrench in every time we got a couples/sex counselor (4 in 9 years).

Every time I'd try to leave, she'd beg me to come back (3 times I think), the last time this happened (I said I was done, really meant it, then she seduced the heck out of me (and I allowed this), I saw how crazy that was -suddenly under threat of abandonment you want to have sex with me? (Now?) and I gave her an ultimatum for therapy. She went for a few months and quit. Supposedly the therapist was changing her practice, but I watched her not find another therapist. This time I said nothing, as I'd already gone beyond my comfort zone to give an ultimatum. In a very short period of time, her dysregulation went over the top. She was raging left and right.

Even with all of the above, I doubted my perceptions. I believed her that I was our problem-my anger, my everything (from the way I dressed, the way I had friends/didn't have friends, ate, cleaned, slept, walked in my slippers, everything!). I only finally left because I saw the sex-less ness and the unwillingness to do therapy, as well as what I saw as an increasing distance (on her part) in the r/s. I saw that there was no deepening in our r/s, despite my best efforts. I had no clue about BPD.

So even doubting just about everything about myself, I finally quit her/left for good. In a span of 2 days she said the following:  she threw out the comment about my anger, said she'd called her old therapist, told me I'd broken her dad's heart (What the heck?),said she'd seen the light on her sexual withholding/anorexia,  said she was ready for us to heal together, said "its time to put this failed relationship to bed" (ironical word choice if you think about it). All in the span of 2 days! The failed r/s comment was the last she made to me-I was shocked, but somehow found my love/heartbreak to say "this wasn't a failed r/s. I loved you. I wanted to marry you. I'm devastated". My last words to her in person, for everything else, as crazy as it sounds (and now I know it's ALL irrelevant), I'm glad my last words had some love in them. A sort of go with god, but please just go- moment.

This past year has been all about learning to trust my perceptions.  A former couples counselor I saw after I left the r/s told me that in the future I'd know if I was dealing with this again if I found myself either getting reactive (she told me my anger was a clue I was trying to protect myself) or if I found myself checking out (the other way I dealt with not being able to trust my perceptions).

Man oh man, I'm so glad we are out!  

[willy45]

Hey Guys,

Thank you so much for the responses. It really helps to know that others have gone through this. I guess my next step is figuring out why I don't trust my own perceptions... .  Blarg. That doesn't sound like fun time. But, I guess needs to be done.

I think the stories of knowing deep, deep down are really helpful. I knew. I knew the day we first hung out. I knew the first time we hooked up. I knew every time I saw her. Yet, her crazy behavior never sunk in. I was so uncommitted I just figured it wouldn't hurt me. I was horribly, horribly wrong about that... .  

[charred]

The comments about you knowing... .  remind me of talking with a T. I have been finding out my issues, but knew them deep down... .  just hadn't named them and owned them. My exBPDgf claimed I had symptoms of some kind of attachment disorder... .  vague but pretty accurate. Took a lot of digging to conclude that is the case. So she has abandonment issues, and I have attachment... .  and fireworks ensue when we are together... .  bad horrible fireworks.

Wanted to doubt that particular feeling... .  but it is what it is. How do you fix having a father that was gone all the time you were little and a mother that lost her mother at age 5 and is very distant... .  can't believe all this crap on my side could come down to something like my mom didn't smile/interact/attend to me when I was little... .  jeez, I am 50 ... .  suspect people don't really get past that kind of thing. But I have known I didn't quite get along normal... and took it just symptoms of my ADHD. I think it is probably the root cause of all the rest of this stuff. Should I be happy figuring this out? Hope its fixable.

Happy flipping new year.

[exbpdgf]

Hey again. Just wanted to apologize for sorta hijacking the thread earlier-clearly it hit a nerve. PTSD anyone?

Also wanted to suggest a book my T recommended: A general theory of love. It's been out for a few years, so easy to find a used paperback. Talks about our perceptions, attractions and much more on attachment (sorta famous for introducing the concept of limbic resonance). Happy new year!

[willy45]

Hey ExBPDFgf,

No need to apologize. And you didn't hijack the thread. Your comments are really useful. It helps to know that others have the same issues. You stuck it out much longer than me and you seemed to have been even more committed than me. I was terrified of going to councilling. My ex wanted to. She kept saying we can 'communication' issues but I was super scared that going to councilling would be just another opportunity for her to rage at me about my non-committment rather than why she would rage at me and why I would take it. If it ever, ever, ever got to that point, I was sure my ex would be out of there. I don't think we had 'communication' issues. That terms doesn't even mean anything. I thought her anger and blow-ups were out of line and they would piss me off. Of course, when I would say that, she would freak out and blame me for my 'tone', for my 'lack of commitment', for 'not being nice to her', etc... .