state of panic / dd

[whiletheseasonspass]

dd calls me yesterday a.m. on New YEARS day... .  - in a COMPLETE STATE OF PANIC.  dh had just run over to a friend"s.  So it was just ME at home to receive call.      The call is about- something is taking place... .  this is going to lead to that and for sure she is going to die and she does NOT want to hear one word to the contrary.  

She will NOT go to any hospital yet is very sick and presently sicker than usual.   Like if 10 is normal/ healthy and if a good window for her is  a 3-4 - right now she at a 1-2. This is talking about physically ill but to remember that her physical condition affects her thinking processes- just the way her illness works so yes I can see this but this kind of phone call - leaves me feeling like a gunshot goes through my soul.  And she is an adult so... .  nothing I can do.  I was so caught off guard... .  but she did not want to be soothed.  Why would she NOT want to be reassured?   Anybody got a guess?  

I can't get a word in when she (as my friend put it) throws the grenade and then has to hang up-

but I might have just said- YOU ARE IN A COMPLETE STATE OF PANIC... .  if I could have spoken yet that would have not sat well with her for she needs me to embrace her panic.  

I have not been able to get a hold of her since that call-  I am very uncomfortable right now.  

MEANWHILE dh is in a VERY  shaky place emotionally and I haven't been able share it with him... .  also he had to cancel appt with our T today who helps us maneuver through these things because of a serious health matter that must take him to doctor.  Seeing the T would have been perfect timing - that is for sure but NO we are NOT going... .  

.dh put off seeing the doctor TWO months ago cancelled that and might pay a price for this- and he has been down this road already and paid a price and he should have gone to doc 2 months ago... .  and as I write I feel like I am writing about dd -

I needed to write here for I wonder if any of you get these panic calls... .  or something similar.  My hands are tied and I am so tired.  It has been a long long journey... .  to say it is a roller coaster is to be so understated... .  I have no words.  A few weeks ago I was thinking that maybe dd was getting over this kind of thing- the panic (there were a few positive indicators)  and also had the feeling that she was moving on to better behavior... .  but did not write on board for some reason.  Maybe deep down I knew/ know better.  

If anyone has some words of wisdom... or familiarity with what I am writing about- in any form- I'm  sure I could use that.  

Thanks... .  for listening.  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Thursday]

wtsp,

Sorry this is happening. Must be so upsetting that your DD will not allow you to comfort her. My BPDSD21 goes through this sort of panic a few times a year. It is not the same as raging but I consider it just as destructive and troublesome and like your DD she is not seeking comfort, rather seems to need a witness to her meltdown... .  she wants us to understand how... .  low... .  she is. I put the pause dots because it is hard to actually pinpoint her reasons or her emotions.

This panic mode is just one of many cycling behaviors and it helps me to remind myself that she will cycle back to a healthier place if we wait it out, sometimes she recups almost immediately  but this cycle your daughter is in seems much scarier since she believes she is going to die. My SD will typically feel so at the bottom she will not be able to see out... .  but out comes on its own somehow.

My guess is that your DD doesn't want to feel reassured and thus "better" because she gains so much from her illness- I get the idea when my SD is suffering in any sort of tangible way that she feels far more vital, as if having the sypathy and concern of other's is life enriching. Hard for us to understand exactly why this gain feels like something she wants because none of us nons can imagine wanting to feel bad or having feeling bad work for us in any way... .  but I see very much that my SD really embraces say, an infected finger. she wants everyone to know about it, she wants everyone to be worried about it. She won't do anything to fix it tho because once it's well, there is less about her to notice I suppose. A girl with no infected finger is less than a girl who has an infirmity that is really there.

I have no idea if this can possibly help you but I wanted to give some thoughts and let you know I read your post.

Wish I could do more or say more to help.

thursday

[jellibeans]

I don't have words of wisdom but it sounds to me that this is a cry for attention. My d15 likes to try on illnesses... .  mimicks other peoples problems etc... .  she will casually mention there was blood in your urine or that she threw up but I think it is just to see my reaction. I try not to get upset... .  and I give her advise or ask why do you think you did that or why do you think that happened?

I think this is just part of the mental illness... .  why do you think she called you? Maybe she is feeling distant and wants to near but doesn't know how to ask so making up an illness is the next best thing... .  

I hope I helped... .  and I hope she gets better.

[Being Mindful]

Dear while,

Yes, I completely understand and have been there many times. It's a horrible feeling, very unsettling and it brings out the worst anxiety in us.

Can you do something right now to help calm yourself? Can you sit calmly, fix some herbal tea, pick a soothing color. With both feet on the ground, relaxed arms and hands, close yours eyes, breathe slowly. Now, picture that soothing color at the top of your head. Imagine that beautiful, soothing color, slowly, very slowly washing down your head, neck and the rest of the body. Bask in this, let it envelope you... .  that beautiful, soothing color. Take it in, calmly, soothing your mind. Do this slowly, thinking only of the beautiful color.

Another one I use... .  Let the thoughts come and go, come and go. Let them just come in and go out. You can't do anything more than what you have done. It is time to take care of you so let those thoughts wash in and wash out. Say this to yourself over and over.

Since your DH was not able to go to therapy, is your T. available by phone? Sometimes we found a quick call to our therapist helped us to sort of get past the rough spot. They can't make it go away, but often she could get us off that panicky feeling that would consume us.

Being Mindful... .  hopes you find some peace and calm

[cfh]

while

I am very familiar with what you are describing.  And to get you through the next few hours try to practice taking very deep breaths.  When it happens to me I have to remember to breathe and I walk in and out of every room in my house.  I don't know why maybe it's the the ritual that calms me.

Not to make light of what your dd is saying but my ds has called numerous times over the years telling me that he just went to see a dermatologist and they say he has melanoma, he has told me that an eye doctor said he is going blind, he has said that he has cancerous tumors in his abdomen.  Many life threatening illnesses.

As a parent you do panic... .  what if it's true?  It's never true with my son and maybe for your dd it's true in her mind, or maybe she reaching out in the only way she knows how.  She sounds scared and wanted to call mom.

I hope by the time I am writing this things have calmed down a bit.

I don't know about others with BPD kids but this is very common with my ds... .  still I never get used to it.

[lovesjazz]

Our ds also borrowed illnesses from others... .  Parkinson's (at 16?... )... .  vomiting up  blood, has a stomach ulcer, and the latest is a mass o  his lung.  Could never get a grip on what it's about. But I don't panic anymore when he spews these ailments at me.

[twojaybirds]

I know those calls... my dd has been going blind... .  has had kidney failure... .  pnumonia... .  

I now let these calls roll.  If I can I suggest she call a doctor or 911 if it is real bad (like kidney failure) but I now know she is OK.

I think sometimes it is an excuse to contact me for that reassurance I am there. 

[simenora]

my dd is 16 and currently at home. yesterday she called crisis,without our knowledge, then an ambulance as per their suggestion. I told them to go and i drove her. We spent the night in emerge. I think the trigger may have been being behind on distance learning.

[lbjnltx]

Greetings to you wtsp   

Some time has passed since you posted and I pray that you and dh are alright.  I hope that you have had some contact with your d and have some assurance that she is alright for now.

It appears to me that she is asking for validation in her panicked statement... .  are you able to see this?

From my heart to yours I wish you a moment of peace.

 

lbj

[whiletheseasonspass]

Thank you all for all of your answers.

Thursday, this - what you wrote here has been a deep rooted part of dd's behavior- especially when she calls me expressing herself as she did.  And even though she was indeed scared.

My guess is that your DD doesn't want to feel reassured and thus "better" because she gains so much from her illness- I get the idea when my SD is suffering in any sort of tangible way that she feels far more vital, as if having the sympathy and concern of others is life enriching.

lbj and cfh- It's possible that my dd may have needed also  to "connect" with me- but in her own way- lbj- yes. she needed validation for being frightened but unfortunately at that time she would not allow any thus this thread and  lbj- you are right- although I have posted to others I have not started my own thread in a long time.  The good news is that I know if I need to start a thread- I can always come here and get some compassionate answers that make sense. I can write out my troubles when I really need to- to such caring folks...  

I don't know about others with BPD kids but this is very common with my ds... .  still I never get used to it.

 cfh- I think that we are all different as parents. And our children have a place on the spectrum... .  from not too bad to very extreme.  I kind of feel as you do- in that it is very hard to get used to this.  I am a HSP (although a non) and dd is on the extreme end of the spectrum  It is so hard for dd even taking all into account- and I know you get that part... as I know you feel the empathy for your own ds as  I do for dd.  



It is interesting here that others here have ds's or dd's that turn to an illness in their own way.  I'm sorry that happens but I thank you for sharing that- all that did.  two jaybirds- yes it is possible that dd wanted to make sure we are here for her when she panics even though she did not allow that validation or soothing.   

Well- all that said-  I finally did get my dd- she did answer her phone.  She was more calmed down.  And she let me soothe/ validate her.  I think on the first phone call where she was like a goal tender at a hockey game - blocking any attempt to validate or soothe- that made it so hard to receive such a call -.  The second time when we spoke- she was not acting as the goal tender... .  and it was much better - really much better because I KNEW that SHE felt much better emotionally when we hung up !  

 Being Mindful- dd unfortunately is not "there" yet to decide to do regular appts with a T - wish she was AND with the right kind of T- and phone would be fine if only... .  but I have a feeling that maybe up the road based on things she says lately... .  

Thank you all... .  

 

wtsp

[qcarolr]

wtsp - WHEW! So glad you were able to connect with DD, and she let you in. I have received many of these calls, especially when she was living homeless. It just wretches my gut - puts me in such a twist - sifts my mind into a panic if i allow it. The deep breathing helps me, close my eyes and silently say "I can stand it, I can stand it".

It is so hard to know this - that by making the panic call they get grounded by our just answering the phone - we are there. Somehow this gives a spark of courage for my DD to 'stand it' - whatever 'that' is in the moment for her. You validated her by answering the phone, staying on the phone until she hung up. And by calling back until she was able to answer and get your verbal validation. You did not give up on her.

It is so hard to remember that we are doing the best we can, and that it can be enough in that moment -- to relieve our panic. Thanks for posting in your distress. We do so care for you, and for your DD.

qcr  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[LearningToAccept]

whiletheseasonpass:

I, too, have received those frantic calls where all my attempts to soothe are rejected. You dd has a physical ailment, but in my case, I knew in my heart that my dd28 would be ok after a few hours so for the most part I tried to ignore the calls. It didn't always work and many I remained rattled the rest. I never tried validation when I got these calls. I am sure I will have an opportunity to  use this tool in this future in a situation similar to yours.

Take good care of yourself. Hope your dh's health has improved.

Learning

[Being Mindful]

Being Mindful- dd unfortunately is not "there" yet to decide to do regular appts with a T - wish she was AND with the right kind of T- and phone would be fine if only... .  but I have a feeling that maybe up the road based on things she says lately... .  

Thank you all... .  

 

wtsp[/quote]
Dear wtsp,

So glad to hear from you and glad that things have calmed.

What I meant about the T was for you and your husband. The appointment that had to be rescheduled.

Being Mindful

[tapestry strings]

Yes, glad that you were able to talk to your daughter and find her calmer.  I know the heart-lurch of the "no answer" must take a toll, where you struggle to keep breathing when your heart as a parent is on full alert because your child needs you.

Just to throw an idea on the table, while things are "quiet" (for the moment)... .  

Would it work to make an action plan, a "script", that you could use with dd daughter during her next crisis?  When someone calls 911 during a crisis... .  lets just say their car broke down on the side of the road, they don't know where they are, it's dark, the kids are scared, they are late for x-y-z and jabbering 90 miles an hour in their distress... .  the 911 operator has to find SOMEway of "getting control" of the call, right?  And then talk the person thru some steps to get them off of focusing on the "what-ifs", to focus on the "now".  "Can you tell me what you see around you... .  ?", etc, as the 911 operator tries to get a clue as to where they are to prep for sending help.

Just to make up an example that might work with dd, what if you had a talk with her and explained that because she is your daughter, when she is hurting or in crisis, you "want to help".  And then explain what that looks like:

~ When she calls in tears and talking too fast, you will ask her to "slow down" do that you can understand her.  If she is too panicked to listen and respond to your request to "slow down", you will hang up the phone and call 911 so that "real" help will be on it's way.

~ If she calls you in tears and talking too fast, (and has attempted to "slow down" when asked) you will ask her some questions so that you can understand "where she is" (private note:  emotionally/physically).  You will ask:  "Is anyone there with you?"  "Can you tell me what you see in the room around you?"  (getting her to focus on "the moment"  "What did you eat last?"  "Can you unlock the front door for me... .  ?"  I'm just making up example questions, but it would be similar to what a 911 operator would do with a scared child who calls to say "mommy isn't breathing"... .  a way of getting them to calm down and focus on the questions (and the moment).  And if your daughter CAN continue to interact with you in her crisis, you will know this is one she can "talk thru".  If she hangs up on you, or can't answer questions, you will hang up the phone and call 911 so that "real" help will be on it's way.  If the talk with your daughter to "prep" this crisis script is going well (she feels validated that you "believe" when she is in crisis, and want to help), you might even ASK her for other questions that SHE would like you to ask (adding to your list... .  not subtracting).

This way you and dh would have a "script" to go by.  You could keep a paper copy of it by every phone in the house, so that in the crisis YOU experience when she calls distraught... .  YOU would have something to focus on to keep you on track.  Kind of like the heart resusitation machines in the mall "talking" to walk someone thru the steps when they are too panicked to focus on written words of instruction?  When 911 operators get a call from someone that "ends" before the 911 operator can finished THEIR script, they send emergency help AND try and reestablish the call.  You will be doing the same.  Because you love your dd.  And because you have a PLAN... .  you can stay focused in the moment while trying to help her.  With 911 just a phone call away.

As a side note, you can call and talk to 911 (by going thru the police station, so that you aren't using the emergency number).  You can explain your struggles with trying to help your daughter in crisis, and they can suggest a plan as well, or can solicit information from you that would help THEM when answering a 911 call (say... .  if your daughter placed the call herself).  They might ask for a list of her meds/doses to put as notes in the system, or ask for your contact information, or ask what psych hospitals have a history on her, etc.  That way your heart can be assured that "they've got it" if they get a distress call from your daughter (or someone that she is with at the moment, who isn't "you", and that she will get the help she needs.

"Many hands make light work."  Right? 

[whiletheseasonspass]

It is so hard to know this - that by making the panic call they get grounded by our just answering the phone - we are there.

Qcarol- I think you make a lot of sense here!  Just by our answering the phone!  That is very good- for when my dd feels really sick and really scared- she feels very alone. I know that you have been there and you know the drill - that it is hard to reason or talk when our dd's are or have been in a really emotional place.  Yes... .  very good- just by answering the phone... .  thank you.  That is simple but very brilliant! 

Being Mindful.  Oh sorry- my tired brain read your post wrong.  Well that appt has been rescheduled.  Thank you for asking. 

tapestry- I can see how certain questions might calm dd down- I had kind of reviewed the situation in between phone calls.  My dd is not standard in these cases... .  but I will reread what you wrote.   You are so kind to take the time - to try and help! 

[qcarolr]

Tapestry - I had no idea what I was doing, yet I did exactly this so many times when my DD was homeless and called distressed and suicidal at night. Her bf had been gone for hours, she felt alone and abandoned, she could not come home. I stayed calm and asked her questions about where she was, who was there, did she know any of their names. Then I would say - go sit near them. I would tell her I that when I hung up I was calling for a wellness check (she was never still there when the police arrived - yet this seemed to calm her, to know I cared?)  This is a good way to talk someone down. And now I have listened to DD on her phone talking someone else down. It does seem to work for some of us. To get refocused. Kind of like using distractin with your toddler who is having a fit about something. And I use this with my gd7 too.

qcr