A bit of a Breakthrough, Post Incarceration Syndrome

[Cloudy Days]

I was talking to my husband yesterday and he was telling me about something that happend to him while he was locked up. I thought about it and for some reason it didn't click until then but I told him about Post Incarceration Syndrome and that most inmates have it at some point. The longer you are locked up and the more isolated you are the more likely you will develop it. Any abuse expeirienced also makes it more likely.

As soon as I told him about it he wanted to look it up. He was reluctent to say he had Borderline Personality Disorder because he read that mainly wemon have it so to him it didn't add up. He was almost happy to read the information and it all really made sense. He has been slowly isolating himself from the world becacuse he doesn't trust himself. Everything makes sense! The Borderline Diagnosis made sense to me but there were things that didn't make sense. The isolation thing is the main thing, as well as some of the anger that isn't present with other Borderlines. His therapist told him he was angrier that what was usual for BPD. I just thought I would share this information with others. My husband was incarcerated for 2 1/2 years, 1 year he was in solitary confinment and said he was shackled and beaten by gaurds several times. He had impulse problems and PTSD to a point before he was incarcerated but once he got out he was a differnt person all together, he had so many problems that he didn't have before. It's a shame that the prison system is made to make criminals and not rehabilitate them. He is fully accepting this diagnosis and is even looking forward to going to see his therapist today.  

I am hoping this will help him actually work to get better, He even had me help him make a list of things he wants to talk about with his therapist. I think he needed something to make sense to him and this totally does. Him being in solitary confinement for a year I feel like is what did it. This is what it does to you... .  

The Social-Sensory Deprivation Syndrome [vi] is caused by the effects of prolonged solitary confinement that imposes both social isolation and sensory deprivation.  These symptoms include severe chronic headaches, developmental regression, impaired impulse control, dissociation, inability to concentrate, repressed rage, inability to control primitive drives and instincts, inability to plan beyond the moment, inability to anticipate logical consequences of behavior, out of control obsessive thinking, and borderline personality traits

www.tgorski.com/criminal_justice/cjs_pics_&_relapse.htm

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[crazymade]

wow... .  glad to read your post. It explains some of my husband's behavior. He too, has been incarcerated quite a bit on and off since he was 7 yrs. old. he also had a turbulent and violent childhood. He has also been dx BPD among other things.

What's stirring the pot for us now is a couple of things. One, I've been taken away from him in the past. Long story short, I got taken away from him when he was 15 (me 16) because i got in trouble and got sent away. We've known each other since kindergarten. Reunited a few years ago. Now, one or both of us is looking at getting locked up (again). the closer the plea or trial comes, the moodier he is. Were you with your husband while he was locked up? My husband is so scared that I will abandon him. He may or may not be looking at a lot of time. We just don't know yet. he is a two time felon and I've never had a record. He's convinced he can get me out of my charges, but I am not. he says even though my charge is a felony, i'm a first time offender, all they'll give me is probation. i differ with him, since they are serious charges. He won't hear at all that i may be going to prison too.

Do you have any advice for dealing with my husband, since he seems to be similar to yours? Thank you!

P.S. you can read my introduction under crazymade.

[Cloudy Days]

I wasn't with him when he was in solitary confinement, he had actually gotten out for about 8 months and I met him on month 2. He had gotten charges while he was in jail before they let him out. They were ridiculous charges, I know he wasn't making it up because I went to his sentencing with him. It was obvious they were trumped up and bogus, he still got a year and half for it though. Anyways, before my husband actually went back into jail he was pretty out of it and worried about loosing me. The last day we had together before he did his time was terrible, he knew he was going to jail so he didn't show up for court. Anyways, I can relate to the way he is acting with the pending charges against you two. My husband got into some legal problems a few months ago, they are all mistameaners but if he doesn't do what they want he is looking at time. Hopefully he will get away with a diversion. You could possibly get away with a diversion since it is your first offence. Cooperate with them as much as possible, take any classes they ask you to take and if you don't have one get a lawyer. You may be charged with a felony but they can lessen the charges if you cooperate especially if you have lawyer. My husband is always worse the closer it gets to his court dates. fortunatly the judge has a son who is Bipolar, my husband is playing the I'm crazy card with them so they will be more leinent. As long as he keeps going to his therapy appointments they are going to work with him. He's even thinking about taking medication, something that has not went over well in the past.

He on the other hand is pretty much garunteed some time if he already has two felonys. I don't have much advice to give other than if you can get him to get some counceling that's the only way he is going to get any better and it's a long road. Make sure he gets it while he is incarcerated too, they do offer mental health services in jail. Learn the skills on this page, learn how to Validate his fears. Of course he feels like you will leave him, that's a very valid feeling. Anyone in his situation would feel that way. Validate, validate, validate!

I was with my husband for the year and a half that he was in prison. He felt like I was going to leave him the entire time he was in prison. The people in there don't help either, they would tell him I was going to leave him. One of the hardest things was that he got his visits taken away for six months for giving me a hickey during one of our visits. It was really hard to go through. The prison system isn't made to rehabilitate anyone, it's made to make them worse, especially people with mental problems. Let me know if you have any questions, I've been through quite a bit of this stuff.

[Empathic1]

Thank you SO MUCH for posting this! I've never heard of it before, and I definitely intend to do some further research on it now.

My SO was incarcerated (before I met him) for several years. This is VERY good to know.

[Cloudy Days]

It was a lightbulb moment for my husband. I have'nt been able to find much information on it but what I have found points directly at my husband. It explains so much. I had a feeling I wouldn't be the only one, I know most people don't volunteer the information that their SO was incarcerated for awhile. It's not something I like to advertise. It looks so much like BPD but it also doesn't add up completley to BPD. My husband wants to work but hasn't been able to, he also has a dependency on Marijuana to keep him calm, which is another symptom. As well as the free floating anger and obsessive thinking. He litterally obsesses about stuff untill it consumes him. He will focus all his energy on one thing, sometimes that's a good thing, most of the time it is a bad thing.

It's also something that may be a little easier to bring up with someone who doesn't want to admit they have a mental problem. This gives an exact reason why they are the way they are. My husband has always said before Prison he wasn't like this. He had problems but he was social, and fun loving most of the time, worked his entire life, had many friends. Now he just locks himself in our home and hates pretty much everyone.

[crazymade]

From your post, it sounds like you are more experienced in this arena than I, however, I do have some experience myself. They are going to make him worse.

I was taken away from my BPD SO when I was 15 and sent to reform school for getting in trouble. From what my husband tells me, that is one of his abandonment issues, and it doesn't help the situation. My husband tries to play the tough guy, but his mother says he is terrified of going back to prison again. The only thing he tells me he is scared of is that I wont' be there for him and I'll leave him. Did your BPD SO ever refuse your visits? Did y'all get into arguments that affected your visits? That's what I'm worried about. Like you said, other inmates will make him think  i'm cheating or have left him, and he will be easily influenced by this i'm afraid. What he doesn't understand is that I have no intention of doing either! His mother and i are good friends and a great support to each other when it comes to him. His mother told  him that (and i'm quoting here) "she's a crazy btch when it comes to him." I love him, have loved him all my life, why would I stop now? This kind of situation isn't new to us.

Also, what's maddening is, I'm afraid they'll throw the book at him, and let me walk away scott free. Maybe i'm being whiny, but i just don't think it's fair.

We're trying to get him disability while we are waiting on all the court things. Have a court date on jan 17. Trying to postpone as much as possible. We're both going to have to get PDs. I don't make that much money. The closer it gets to that date, the moodier he's getting. he even said so one day that he worries about it constantly. he says he plays his game all the time so he won't think about it.

I REALLY REALLY appreciate all your support and letting me vent. Thank you so much, and I wish much luck and blessings to you and your SO. I, myself am OCD/anxiety/depression, so if i can answer any questions about the obsessive thinking your SO has, please let me know. I completely understand that, as i have a lifetime of experience with it. 

[Cloudy Days]

My husband's abandonment issues came from his father's suicide when he was a teen and a lot of other family problems added on top of it. He was pretty much a hot mess when I met him, but the honeymoon period of him basically acting like I was a Goddess is what made me fall hard for him. I know now it wasn't healthy, we got pretty serious really fast. I turned a blind eye to a lot of the things he did because he always had a way of explaining why he did things. We had so much fun though, I was riding the same emotinal high he was. I think that's what keeps me holding on, the emotional high when he has me on that pedistal. My parents never acted the way my husband acts towards me. They always acted like they hated each other. I suppose that could be part of what screwd me up. I don't know what a normal happy relationship looks like.

Our visits were all dependent on his moods. Some visits I would spend the entire time crying because we would be fighting. Other visits he would be so grateful that I came. I would write letters to him every day and we would also do phone calls which got extremely expensive. We would fight a lot on our phone calls too. The phone was not good, he would always think he heard something in the background and would say I was cheating on him. I thought it was just because he was in jail but this is something he has carried on into our daily life. I hate the phone, we usually text everything if we talk when I'm at work, it works better. The cheating thing was constant, it's still something we struggle with to this day. It goes away for a little while but it always comes back. If he is raging at me he always accuses me of cheating, no matter what the rage started with, he always goes there.

I know you think the justice system isn't fair but you need to remember that he has had other felony's. They look at that stuff. If it is someones first offence, it could have been a fluke. If it is someones 3rd offence then they see a repeat offender and feel like they need to throw the book at them. What's amazing is that Jail time will probably make him more likely to reoffend. My husbands legal trouble had to do with me so I was able to call and talk to the prosecuter. I told him that my husband has mental problems, that he was shackled by cops and beaten maliciouly when he was in jail and if he goes to jail again it would probably set him back for possibly the rest of his life. I told him the only thing I want from this is for my husband to get the mental help that he needs. So far they have been working with us. His greatest fear is to go back to jail and loose me, so obviously this is giving him some motivation.

I don't have any major mental health issues other than being Codependent. I think that's unhealthy enough though, I can't imagine having anxiety issues further than I already do. I am a free spirit, just want to love and be loved in return. Why is that so much to ask?

[crazymade]

Ya, know, I ask the same question. I don't think what i want is too much, and neither is what you are asking for. Why is it so difficult? I don't understand either.

eating lunch at work while i type. what you're saying is it will get worse. no matter what the argument is about, it always comes to that i'm cheating on him, etc. we've already had a discussion that there's nothing i can do to convince him that i really love him, and he agreed. when we got arrested last year, and i got out before him, he was so relieved and excited that i came to see him at every visitation. he said no one except his mom had done that before. but every since he got out of jail (it took me a month to save up the money to bond him out, but i did it!, he's been worse, and so worried about going back to prison and me leaving. he says it's why he plays game all the time so he doesn't have to think about it. he says one of the reasons he doesn't work is because he needs to know i can pay the bills on my own, even though i did it all before i met him. but i understand his concern since i'm in a much different environment. he's always worried something will happen to me, and i know that will get worse once he goes back to prison.

i know everything will get worse when he goes to prison, and even worse if they do give me time. he is more terrified of me doing time. it scares the hell out of him. based on what you said, and what i know, and my luck, they'll throw the book at him and let me get away. my husband reminds me constantly it's in our best interest that it be that way. he says if i get a felony, i won't survive, cuz i've always been corporate and wouldn't know how to work a fast food place type job. as you said, i'll validate, validate, validate! some of his fears are reasonable.

as for your SO, just keep on loving him. when he's obsessing about something, don't try and stop it. with me, if i''m obsessing about something, it will eventually fade if it is a fear. if it is something tangible, like, "i have to have a quarter pounder with cheese", it WILL NOT stop until i eat a quarter pounder with cheese. isn't rational, but that's the way i think. telling me to just 'quit  obsessing' makes it worse. and also, DO NOT take away your SO's marijuana. my husband controls when i smoke, and right now he is trying to get me to quit for a different reason everyday, some of them rational some not. (and it's not helping either one of us. him trying to make me quit is putting some strain on us, and i insist on being able to smoke, and he denounces me for it, but the more he does, the prouder i become, ie, not ashamed.) but as for your SO, let him smoke as much as he wants. it's really the best medicine in the world. that's part of the reason i think it's still illegal most places. if you smoke, you don't need antidepressants, heart medicine, cholesterol med, etc. etc. it's an AWESOME thing. i don't know if you agree with me, but from an OCD/anxiety/depression staNPDoint, there IS NO BETTER MEDICINE.

[Cloudy Days]

Lol... .  You sound like my husband. I really do have to agree with it, I have done it as well to help me destress and take my mind off things. I don't try to keep him from doing it, I just know that he will have to take at least one pee test for a diversion so he has to stop at some point. You will too so your gonna have to quit for a little while. That's why I am getting nervous, he usually starts falling apart when he stops smoking, it takes a few weeks for him to become ok again. That's when the obesessive thinking come in. He doesn't do it when he smokes. We can't afford it either, it would be so much easier if they made it legal. He has headaches as well, which I am now thinking is from the Prison Syndrome, his headaches go away when he smokes. I really haven't fought the MJ, alcohol on the other hand is another story. When he first got out of Prison he had to be on Parole. He drank heavily for a year while he was on Parole. This was before I knew about BPD, and Bipolar (my husband has it too). Once he started smoking pot things got a lot better. Life has a way of throwing curve balls though, and things didn't stay good. His Bipolar reared it's ugly head and he eventually had to be hospitalized for a Manic episode. I know what to look for now, and he has a good Phyciatrist that knows what to look for too.

Anyways, I wouldn't get too nervous about him going to jail. I know you are hell bent on staying with him but you need to use that time to really think about what you want and work on yourself. Try and get a therapist, they do have low cost ones. My husaband wasn't great in Prison but I didn't have to worry about living with him either so it wasn't bad either. Our relationship was so fresh I was still madly in love with him. I think if our relationship had went on longer I may have woken up from my stupor and looked at things a little more clearly. I would have used the time to work on myself more and become a healthier me. You should deffinately do that.

[crazymade]

I really appreciate your advice. i'm going to use it too. validate, validate, validate! I've been thinking that all day.

yeah, obsessive thoughts are horrible! the only way i know how to describe it is it is like having chicken pox. it itches so bad, but you're not allowed to scratch. it is maddening! and once you've scratched one itch, another one pops up, and they won't go away until they get scratched. as long as you are scratching, all is well.  if not, madness ensues! it just keeps looping. and you know how there's that tier of needs or something? how you don't think about shelter unless you have eaten. once you have eaten, then you think about getting shelter. once you have shelter, you then think about getting clothes, or something like that. i can't remember it verbatim. but it basically says you can't worry about one need until you have fulfilled the other. that's how ocd is to the extreme. it's like with me, I have to have my coffee WITH MILK and my cigarettes (and if i'm lucky my pot, which i ALWAYS wonder if today will be THE DAY i FINALLY get to smoke again) otherwise my whole day is shot to hell. I can't concentrate on ANYTHING until i get those things. Ask me what i'm thinking when i don't have them, and i will tell you i'm waiting to get my coffee with milk and cigarettes. my mind will not let anything else in until i have my coffee with milk and cigarettes. if i get coffee without milk i will ocd about getting milk for my coffee. or if i get a craving for a food, i'll keep on and on about it. my hubby will ask me what i want to eat, and everytime he asks i'll say what i'm craving. oo, that really gets him. i hope that clears up some of the ocd stuff... .  it's pretty nasty. i hope that helps to improve your understanding of your husband. it sounds like you really love him. i do love mine! we've loved each other since kindergarten, so you could say i am hell bent on staying with him. we both have been with other people in our lives, but we really do just want each other.

my husband has said the same things you have said about smoking. not what i want to hear, but the truth and honesty no less. and it sucks, . to know there is something available that improves the quality of your life, and not be able to utilize it. and i will be getting a therapist. i have lost some of myself.

all we want is love, and we didn't realize the cost, but we realize the value.

I really do want to talk with you more, but i'm about to leave work. can't do this from home.

many blessings! 

[crazymade]

Cloudy days---

I'm having an 'a-ha!' moment, but it comes with some sadness. I was reading the lesson about objectifying a partner, and went to www.angelfire.com/biz/BPD/Gunder.html and read it, and realized that that is how my husband looks at the world, based on how i feel about how he treats me. I've realized that when i do what he wants, i'm good, but when i don't i'm bad. i'm still reading and i'm trying to figure out what to do about it. it's a lot of information right now. maybe it applies to your husband too? not sure, but i sent you the link anyway. i agree i think we can learn from each other. totally in shock right now, absorbing this new knowledge. hope this helps!

[Cloudy Days]

I have read that one before, and yea my husband does it too. It's a lot to take in for sure. You go through sort of a greiving process. Realizing what is going on, realizing that they may never be normal completley. That the relationship you thought you could have you may never have. I remember when my husband was first diagnosed. I was happy at first, because I found information that I felt could help me. Then after reading and reading and reading. It's just not that simple, it's takes a lot of work and a lot of heart ache. It also takes working on ourselves. When I first joined this site I thought everything was his fault. I know now that I have never had a completley healthy mind, because healthy minds would'nt stay with someone like this. I think you just have to take it one step at a time. It takes practice to learn the skills and it also takes strength to detach and not let it wear you down. Some days I'm not as strong, but you have to pick yourself up and try again.