good idea? bad idea?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Quick background for those not already familiar with my situation -- I am maintaining a close, sometimes very close, friendship with my uBPDexbf.  I love him, but am not trying to be in a romantic relationship with him -- he's not able to do that, I don't think.  He has no insight into why he blows up love relationships and I am not trying to teach him.  If he were working on that issue in appropriate therapy I might feel differently, but he isn't.

Even though we are not "dating," we are often as close as if we were, though, and he goes through cycles with me that are similar to ones in a BPD romance.  He pulls me very close, is very intense, then pushes away.  In recent weeks he has been sharing more intensely intimate things with me, and pushing himself to take emotional risks with me, then pulls back, then reconnects.

We are in an intense "pull" phase right now, and for the first time, instead of getting all excited and spiraling up along with him, I'm trying to regulate it a bit in hopes that he won't then panic.  Yesterday it was clear he was anxious every time I didn't text him back right away, and all evening, I didn't text because there was a natural ending point after something he sent me, and I was trying to emphasize that we don't have to be all over each other all the time.

But in an email he sent, he expressed worry that there had been "text silence" earlier in the day (for a couple hours) because I was annoyed at something he wrote.  I was considering directly addressing this.  But am wondering of it will be reassuring, or, in its own way, will feel like I am sticking my nose too deep into his business emotionally and he will feel accused of processing things defectively.

Thoughts?  Here's what I would send:

You wondered if the text silence was because you misunderstood X.  I want you to know that that would never be the situation.  No matter if you misinterpreted something, or whether you said something I didn't totally understand or agree with ... .  my basic feeling about you isn't changing.  If I am ever silent it is just because there's nothing to say right at this moment, or I'm pausing, or I'm giving you space, because correctly or not, I think you want it, or I have some crazy meeting or something with [my daughter] or ... .  but I'm still "there," and I'll be back, and I am not going away because of something you did or said.

[patientandclear]

Quick background for those not already familiar with my situation -- I am maintaining a close, sometimes very close, friendship with my uBPDexbf.  I love him, but am not trying to be in a romantic relationship with him -- he's not able to do that, I don't think.  He has no insight into why he blows up love relationships and I am not trying to teach him.  If he were working on that issue in appropriate therapy I might feel differently, but he isn't.

Even though we are not "dating," we are often as close as if we were, though, and he goes through cycles with me that are similar to ones in a BPD romance.  He pulls me very close, is very intense, then pushes away.  In recent weeks he has been sharing more intensely intimate things with me, and pushing himself to take emotional risks with me, then pulls back, then reconnects.

We are in an intense "pull" phase right now, and for the first time, instead of getting all excited and spiraling up along with him, I'm trying to regulate it a bit in hopes that he won't then panic.  Yesterday it was clear he was anxious every time I didn't text him back right away, and all evening, I didn't text because there was a natural ending point after something he sent me, and I was trying to emphasize that we don't have to be all over each other all the time.

But in an email he sent, he expressed worry that there had been "text silence" earlier in the day (for a couple hours) because I was annoyed at something he wrote.  I was considering directly addressing this.  But am wondering of it will be reassuring, or, in its own way, will feel like I am sticking my nose too deep into his business emotionally and he will feel accused of processing things defectively.

Thoughts?  Here's what I would send:

You wondered if the text silence was because you misunderstood X.  I want you to know that that would never be the situation.  No matter if you misinterpreted something, or whether you said something I didn't totally understand or agree with ... .  my basic feeling about you isn't changing.  If I am ever silent it is just because there's nothing to say right at this moment, or I'm pausing, or I'm giving you space, because correctly or not, I think you want it, or I have some crazy meeting or something with [my daughter] or ... .  but I'm still "there," and I'll be back, and I am not going away because of something you did or said.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[yeeter]

I dont see anything alarming in it patient.

The phrase  "we train others how to treat us' - comes to mind, and you are maintaining the boundaries of the engagement and pushing the responsibility of managing his own emotions onto him.

Having said that - he may, or may not be able to.  Either way, it doesnt have to be YOURS to own.  (He might even go find someone else to own it).

The higher level concern is your first paragraph - maintaining a very close friendship but not 'dating'.  I could interpret this as all the emotional sharing of a relationship but without the sex.  It could be pretty dang confusing.  Even for a normal person.  I guess I have to question the underlying structure of this, as simply TOO CONFUSING for someone with a disorder.

In the limit, it could be construed as just dragging him along... .  not necessarily a kind thing to do (Im not saying this is the case because I dont know the details of your situation, but it might be something for you to consider).

I know many normal people that when they first break up, they go 'no contact' for a period to recover, then drift back into friendship status (with a new set of rules of engagement) after a period of time.  If you are wanting to have a longer term relationship with him as a friend, I would think you will need some very clear and consistent boundaries on what is allowed or not - erring on the side of a same sex friend type of interaction - and then enforce it.

just some thoughts.

[patientandclear]

Thanks Yeeter.  I did spend 10 months after the end of our romantic relationship in strict NC.  I got back in touch only after I thought I accepted that there are so many triggers for him he really cannot manage a viable romantic relationship & so I didn't want that with him.  "Friendship" was the explicit premise of our reconnection & he has reinforced that since (by reiterating out of the blue that he only wants friendship, not something more, though I was doing nothing to suggest I wanted something more).  I think it is confusing for him, yes, because I think he feels strongly pulled toward more but is also trying (without support from a therapist as far as I know) to find and hang onto his own "self," which, he says, he has always lost in relationships.

Anyway, though his own feelings are confusing to him, I don't see that as a reason not to engage -- he would have no close connection to anyone otherwise.

I've had to work hard to monitor my own feelings -- I started with a genuine desire to be just his friend.  But the closeness and intimacy has been powerful at times and it is hard to remember at those times why we cannot be more.  However the push cycle usually intervenes just in time to remind me

In any event, I am quite committed to continuing as we are.  I think is doing a lot for both of us.

The reason I am wondering if sending that italicized paragraph in the original post is a good idea -- is that I wonder if it suggests there is something wrong with him.  He reacts very poorly to such suggestions (he doesn't rage, but he withdraws).  It is meant to reassure, but I wonder if it isn't more reassuring to just continually actually still be there when he's afraid I won't be -- rather than say I will, which he may interpret as me thinking I know better how to be in relationships than he does, am condescending, or whatever.

Would love insights from any of you who spend lots of time watching BPD reactions and have developed that intuitive sense of how such things play out.

[123Phoebe]

Hi P&C

Not saying that this is the 'right' way to go about it, but this is how I would be inclined to respond:

Ow wow, no, I wasn't annoyed, although I can understand how it could have been interpretted that way.

Is that basically the truth?  Without getting too deep into his psyche?  

[yeeter]

Its mostly about you.

And I really like your reinforcement of still being there.

I didnt read a lot of analysis of HIM into it - so I still dont see a major issue with it (of course that doesnt mean it wont trigger him... .  !).  But it might read a little too wordy - is there a key message you want to deliver in half the # of words?

You know him better than anyone.

Other thoughts can chime in.

[Cardinals in Flight]

Hey P&C,

I've had good success, (that can change at ANY given time, it's understood with BPD), with the reassurances stated as I would any other facts.  If I were to change up how I wrote to my pwBPD, THAT would be more likely to raise  to her.  I you are a prolific writer normally, I'd keep at it, just my 2 cents

CiF

[kl315]

I agree with, well everyone. Long texts from me when my bf is being irrational are ignored... .  short and to the point texts are usually not. If he's used to long messages from you, I think it's reassuring and non-confrontational. If not, maybe something in between your orignal message and Phoebe's suggestion would go over better.

However, if something he said DID really annoy you and he's in a good frame of mind, could you convey your supportive message while letting him know that while it wasn't the reason you stopped texting, whatever it was he said bothered you a little?

[coworkerfriend]

Patient - you are so amazing at articulating your thoughts.  I give you so much credit for being able to communicate so well.  I feel like I am constantly struggling to put my thoughts into words.

I really liked Phoebe's suggestion - short and to the point.

Whatever you do send, I wish you luck.  It can be so painful to be in a relationship with someone with BPD.

[coworkerfriend]

Patient - I hope you don't mind but I have a question.  I have read that you moved from a personal relationship to a friendship with your pwBPD. 

Since we also work together, I often wonder if my pwBPD and I could move to a friendship.  I love and respect him.  I also like him quite a bit when he is in a good period.  He is smart and funny.  I have always considered him my friend. 

Are there times when your previous personal relationship invades the friendship?

[patientandclear]

Coworker: I am pleased overall with the friend arrangement because it puts us on ground where what he can do given his untreated attachment issues is aligned with the formal nature of the r/s. It's emotionally intimate -- very -- he wants it to be.  Yet that overwhelms him and he withdraws for a while, just like in many BPD romantic partnerships.  So the move to being friends hasn't changed the basic dynamic, it's just meant that it doesn't violate both of our sense of what a romantic r/s looks like.

It clearly helps him feel less pressure.  When we get too close, he sometimes sort of breaks up with me again even though we aren't dating.  Imposes distance, informs me that he is willing to be friends but not more. At first this hurt my feelings b/c I wasn't asking for more & it seemed like gratuitous rejection. I felt like "hey, I already got that memo!"  But now I see that this is largely projection. He wanted more, but also didn't, & blamed me. Now he goes, I let him go, he comes back, I'm still there & affirming, he's relieved & grateful, & over time, we both seem to be trusting that we will still be there.

I think if we were sexually involved this would tear me up, & him too.  He's an abuse survivor & sex & trust are really fraught for him. I wish that weren't true but it is.

Hope that helps. I also spent 10 months w/o contact between our romance & breakup, & trying this; a direct transition might have been harder & involved more feelings of rejection. These days I feel more affirmed than not, despite his coming & going. That's because I've tried to grasp & radically accept BPD; let go of expectations (to me, much easier as friends); and because in his own way he shows me that this is important to him & he is trying hard too.