Advice for how to protect my daughter from uBPD grandmother

[Depression = 72% of members]

My MIL has BPD and I struggle with it constantly - working hard this year not to stew about her. My husband is working on boundaries but it is very hard for him - he is consumed with FOG.  We have a daughter who is 5 months old and the momma bear is starting to come out in me - I want to protect her from the crazy!  My husband and I have an agreement that she can only come visit at our house and she is never to go to her house or be alone with her.  So far she has seen her three times - fine by me.

Her behavior is typical, spot on BPD.  She goes into rages for no reason and then acts like nothing is wrong the next day.  Holds terrible grudges.  Extremely manipulative.  Lies, whatever it takes.  Again, my husband is working on his boundaries but continues to go back for more.  He is getting therapy to work on it - she causes him a huge amount of stress and anxiety. Before our daughter was born I would put on a happy face for him to try to make the situation easier for him.  Now that she is here I feel extremely protective of her and do not want to expose her to the drama at all.  Since she is only 5 months old she doesn't know whats going on, but once she starts understanding things she will quickly pick up on the bad situation.

I knew she was crazy and would be a problem when I married my husband - he is worth it but I knew what I was getting into.  Even though he knows how enabling his behavior is towards her I don't think he'll ever be able to give her an ultimatum because of FOG.

My question: do I have a right to refuse her to be around my daughter at all to protect her? We don't see her often, but she insists on getting together for holidays and they're always ruined.   I'm already thinking of her birthday in August and how I will be an anxious mess - I'm on pins and needles when she is around and I don't want our daughter to ever feel the same way. 

I haven't talked to my husband about this and am not sure how to approach or if I need to drop it... .  

[ss21463]

My MIL has BPD and I struggle with it constantly - working hard this year not to stew about her. My husband is working on boundaries but it is very hard for him - he is consumed with FOG.  We have a daughter who is 5 months old and the momma bear is starting to come out in me - I want to protect her from the crazy!  My husband and I have an agreement that she can only come visit at our house and she is never to go to her house or be alone with her.  So far she has seen her three times - fine by me.

Her behavior is typical, spot on BPD.  She goes into rages for no reason and then acts like nothing is wrong the next day.  Holds terrible grudges.  Extremely manipulative.  Lies, whatever it takes.  Again, my husband is working on his boundaries but continues to go back for more.  He is getting therapy to work on it - she causes him a huge amount of stress and anxiety. Before our daughter was born I would put on a happy face for him to try to make the situation easier for him.  Now that she is here I feel extremely protective of her and do not want to expose her to the drama at all.  Since she is only 5 months old she doesn't know whats going on, but once she starts understanding things she will quickly pick up on the bad situation.

I knew she was crazy and would be a problem when I married my husband - he is worth it but I knew what I was getting into.  Even though he knows how enabling his behavior is towards her I don't think he'll ever be able to give her an ultimatum because of FOG.

My question: do I have a right to refuse her to be around my daughter at all to protect her? We don't see her often, but she insists on getting together for holidays and they're always ruined.   I'm already thinking of her birthday in August and how I will be an anxious mess - I'm on pins and needles when she is around and I don't want our daughter to ever feel the same way. 

I haven't talked to my husband about this and am not sure how to approach or if I need to drop it... .  

[Satori]

Do you have the RIGHT to refuse to have her around your daughter? Yes. The question is whether that course of action is the best for you to take.

As a child who grew up with a lot of ruined holidays due to the bad behavior of adults, I urge you to do what you need to do to at least give your daughter happy memories of Thanksgiving, Christmas, whatever important holiday you celebrate. Do you think it is necessary to spend holidays apart from your MIL to achieve that? Do you think it would be possible to work out some arrangement with her? Whatever you decide to do now, you can always change your mind later if it isn't working.

Whatever you do, speaking as one who has been there, don't burn your bridges. Even if you decide you need to separate from your MIL at least for now, do it with love so that you won't have one more thing to feel bad about.

Adjusting to motherhood is a very vulnerable time for a woman and you need to feel safe. You also need to remember that you are, quite naturally, in a more heightened emotional state -- think about what a Mama Bear is like! So be cautious. Honor your feelings, but try to remember that you are seeing things somewhat differently now from how you will in a couple of years.

[Speedracer]

Try to go to some if your husbands therapy sessions, express your concerns, & develop a united front with clear boundaries together to keep your daughter safe. Professional guidance should keep your husband on track with reasoning over emotions.

[Satori]

Speedracer's advice is good. I want to add that I'm suggesting a cautious approach because I personally cut people out and came to regret it -- but that doesn't mean that cutting people out is never the right thing to do.

[GeekyGirl]

Try to go to some if your husbands therapy sessions, express your concerns, & develop a united front with clear boundaries together to keep your daughter safe. Professional guidance should keep your husband on track with reasoning over emotions.

This is good advice. SS, it's really important that you and your husband are on the same page here. If you aren't, it will most definitely have a long term effect on your marriage. My DH and I are in a similar position (my mother has BPD and we have a young son), and although we've had some long and sometimes difficult talks about how to handle my parents and son, we've come to a mutual agreement that works for both of us.

If you and your husband agree that his parents can have some sort of role in your daughter's life (even if it's a very minor one), there are some things you must do to protect her. Boundaries will be your best bet.

[Speedracer]

I attended a seminar on loving someone with an addiction & it was all about boundaries for families. To my surprise all the great advice rang true for loving a BPD family member! Boundaries are all about us, not them. They can be changed & structured whenever however we want, how you want to protect your time space & energy. Stay unified w hubby & if you disagree get unified w a therapist before setting boundaries w his mom. The seminar gave a script "when you... .  , We feel... .  , if you continue to... .  , we wil... .  " just some ideas. Always stay calm & speak to her as if you are school teachers. Don't get emotional or raise your voices. If necessary repeat yourself calmly over & over til she gets it

[ss21463]

Excellent advice - thank you so much. This group is so helpful at giving an outside perspective based on their experiences and I appreciate it so much.  Going to do just what y'all said and set boundaries together with my husband - marriage is all about being a team and that goes for dealing with his mother too.

[BiancaRose]

With the caveat that I don't yet have any children so I haven't been able to see what this is like in practice, I've given the question a lot of thought and here's what I've come up with so far:

• I plan to never let my kids be alone with their grandmother (my mother) because I feel like somebody needs to be there to calmly defend them if she starts pressuring them into boundary violations or guilt them over things she doesn't approve (and also because she raised me with physical discipline, something I adamantly intend to spare my children).



• I want to be as honest as possible with them about why I relate to Grandma the way I do, in an age-appropriate way of course, so I can model good boundaries.



• I intend to set down some very firm boundaries about family traditions so family time has less opportunity to be ruined by my mother's tantrums and bossiness. For instance, we're probably going to start celebrating Christmas Day as an insular family unit, not with either set of in-laws.

My biggest worry is that I won't be healthy enough in myself or secure enough in my own boundaries to manage this, but I'm doing what I can to become better educated and healthier so I can keep them safe.

[ss21463]

BiancaRose - those are great boundaries.  Based on her past Christmas performances she's lucky to get a second with us.  This year I compromised with my husband and said we could invite her to the 5:00 Christmas Eve service (we have a newborn and this was only service that worked with her bedtime) and have her come over to the house beforehand around 3:00 to open presents - she got furious that we set the plans and said she was going to the beach instead.  She didn't return any calls, didn't call my husband on Christmas and had someone leave a trash bag of gifts (all regifted) at our door.  Now she's acting like nothing happened and everything is hunky-dory - such a nightmare!  Next Christmas will probably be the same because she doesn't like to "be forced into anything and told what to do"

My husband and I had a discussion about his mom and we both agree that she will never be alone with her and that access will be extremely limited - she will never have a relationship with her Grandmother. 

[Speedracer]

Think about this: my BPD mother had a chance to spend time with my kids. We were in from out of town & had a baby shower to attend. She made some excuse to freak out & act like a crazy monster in front of them before we left, but she never refused to babysit. She made it so that we would not leave them with her. She probably never wanted to be with them in the first place & came up with an excuse not to do it. I went to the shower in tears that day. As you know, a lot of how they behave is about control.

No matter what you do your daughter will most likely never have a meaningful relationship with her grandmother. And sadly, if they do somehow connect, like when she is older, your mother in law may use her to split you, making your daughter think you have always been terrible unfit parents and she will want to run to her in the teenage rebellion years. Your mother in law would really enjoy that.

Keep the expectations low and try not to grieve over what could be, because it probably can't be anyway.

[Eeoye1]

I totally agree with Bianca-Rose! I have a diffrent perspective that may help.  My son is 18 and old enough to really understand his grandmother is not like normal grandmothers.  When he was younger I did exactly what Bianca-Rose wrote.  I never left them alone.  I would try to explain to him (age appropriatly) why she behaved the way she did.  When he was about 5 there was a table that tipped over.  I was looking over there and she had accidently bumped the table.  She freaked when I said, Mom careful... .  she bursts out with "it was him!"  My son looked at me like he was in trouble.  The table was glass and expensive.  He started balling.  I ignored my mothers huffs and puffs.  She backpedaled and said I just didnt want him to get hurt.  I calmly said, "he's not used to being yelled at that way." 

On the way home we talked about it.  The important thing to him was I stuck up for him.  I was there to intercede.  Over time I decided not to let him go to her home.  Her dog bite him and she yelled at him and blamed him.  We do go camping every year, its a family thing.  I started asking if he wanted to go because she was so needy.  Always asking for help.  Always bugging him asking for help, with everyhting.  He started saying he didnt want to go a few years ago.  It's mentally draining for both of us.  This year we went for a few days, with the understanding if he wanted to leave he could. 

Be there for them to block, and listen to their questions. 

Fortunatly his dad's mom is your normal grandmother so he has had that experience.  She's a nutball :D but I am thankful he had that normal relationship with her. 

If you ask my son about my mom he says, "she's crazy" and kind of blows it off.  Kids are smarter than we think sometimes. 

Hope this helped a little.   

[As1234]

Eeoye1. It is really good to hear your perspective with your son grown.  I am in a similar situation as ss21463.  I have a 2 month old and I don't think she should ever be left alone with my MIL.  Not only is her mood unstable, I think she would say insulting things about me to my daughter as she gets older.  She does this to all of her family members because I do not follow the family structure of giving my MIL everything she wants. it is nice to imagine my daughter understanding as she gets older.

[hadenoughmum]

I too never intend to leave my children alone with my BPD mother again. I fear that she will say nasty things about me to my daughters. I have already witnessed her put adult responsibility on my 18 month old. I asked my parents not to kiss my daughter on the mouth as they smoke drugs and kiss her without washing their mouths. My daughter, who is very affectionate, leaned in to kiss my mother (as she had heard the word kiss and thought that was a request). My mother returned the kiss on the mouth and when I said "I asked you not to do that" she replied "SHE kissed ME, it wasn't me, it was her". I can't bare the think about what adult responsibilities and roles she will place on my children as they grow. I haven't yet had the need to assert the not being alone with them boundary yet. All I know is that protecting them from her abuse is a number 1 priority and I think you should trust your gut feeling on how far to go with that...