What do I do now?

[elemental]

I wrote my BPD and asked how he was doing.

He wrote back within an hour and said "nothing good."

That's it.

I am pretty sure it's gotton really ugly. I know he feels angry, hurt, depressed, trapped, and just flat out bad.

Probably when I responded to his ex almost 3 weeks ago, it triggered her off on an epic chain of drama that has been escalating more and more.

We all know here that it has been her choice to do it, ( she loves this stuff) and we know his reaction is on him.

That leaves me, I guess, as the instigator or catalyst, depending on how nice you want to see me. Either way, I feel responsible.

I don't know what to do now.  Since he is not giving me silent treatment completely, I want to validate him, but I feel guilty for what is happening, so it seems a little precious to say much of anything.

Any ideas?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[elemental]

I guess there isn't much you can say in response to a 2 word sentence from a guy who is raging for a year on everyone in his life.

I said "hugs to you".

I guess I will go do other things now. Probably he is so churned up, he cares very little that I am around anyway.

On a  better note, I am detached enough to be able to go do those other things, and I feel some frustration and hurt but am barely triggered these days into reacting... and he certainly hasn't seen a reaction for a few weeks, which is unheard of for the last 2+ years. Usually I have shown upset at him within a week for his BPD behavior.

[laelle]

The fact that he answered back with a response that isnt insulting you is positive I think.  Maybe a "hope things get better for ya, and im here if you want to talk?"  At least he will know that you will engage in convo if he feels up to it.  If not, dont sweat it.   

[kl315]

You've been with your bf a lot longer than I've been with mine, but I've found that when he's in a very bad way, he'll give me a similar response to inquiries about how he's doing. And a showing of support or offers of help are either met with silence or some statement that lets me know he has no faith that there is anything anyone could do to mak him feel better. When faced with this, I usually just "check in" once or twice a day to let him know that I'm here if he needs me. He comes out of it, and we talk about it to the extent he is able.

You obviously know yours better than anyone here, but from what you've said, the chaos in his life (real or imagined) is at an all time high and he seems to be at a point of crisis. His ex is clearly adding fuel to the fire so if you're going to stay, the best thing you could probably do is to look like the anti-drama. Calm, even, quietly supportive and a port in the storm when he finally steps in out of that storm.

Believe me, I know it's difficult. I'm sure that from minute to minute you have to fight the urge to "do something". But you already know that the best thing you can "do" is to continue as you have. Take care of yourself and live your life to the extent that you are able. Quietly support but don't force it. Unfortunately, that's probably all you can do, hard as it is.   to YOU.

[patientandclear]

I agree. I think the fact that he is receiving your periodic inquiries quietly, and responding without raging, means even he is not currently viewing all of this as having been instigated by you.

I think what you are doing is "working" and that, if anything good can emerge from this, it will emerge from you being the calm safe non-reactive port in the storm.  I think you detaching entirely from the drama is the best help you can provide to him and to you.

Occasional reiterations of "I'm here and I care about you" are perfect, it seems to me.

[elemental]

I am a little tired out on all of it.

His ex fabricates reasons to start problems. She makes up lies and claims all sorts of things. For all I know she could be jerking him around. She's done it dozens of times in the last 5 years.

I can't tell if this guy is actually BPD or just worn out, defiant, and outright bitter and angry. His ex is RELENTLESS.

He gets mad, then calms down. Likely he has resigned himself to the latest round of drama and is passively angry at me. Which means as long as I don't stress him, he will fulminate in silence over it.

I know I will feel better later, but right now, I just kind of feel like why can't all of this upheaval just stop. He and I did ok mostly until his ex started in. Why doesn't that woman ever just wear out?

And BPD doesn't want to talk about what is going on.

I don't feel like arguing with any of them.

He will respond to a distraction better than questions. He likes to exchange music with me, I think I will make a playlist of new songs I found and share it with him.

[Cardinals in Flight]

Beautiful healing words and sentiments can be shared through music!

You're doing great, elmental, hang in there.  Think of us all here holding you up!

Hugs.

CiF

[elemental]

Speak of the devil.

He emailed me. He says he is afraid to say anything to me because I might repeat it to his ex and set that drama off even further.

Excuse me while I wrap my brain around not being his priority.


Ok, this is how it goes. Elemental gets treated as second class because his EX will brutalize the children if she thinks she is less important than me. So we have to hide and sneak and pretend Elemental is an unwanted and inferior person so the children will not get abused by their mother.

I am trying to reframe my thoughts, but I think probably that came out bitter and hurt.

Anyway, I guess I should validate something here. Tomorrow I will validate him. Tonight I am going to validate a glass of wine.

[patientandclear]

Anyway, I guess I should validate something here. Tomorrow I will validate him. Tonight I am going to validate a glass of wine.

Love it!

His framework doesn't make sense.  :)on't worry about making sense of it.  However, at some point, it does leave the question -- once you finish discarding his framework and his reactions and ignoring his hurtful relationship with his ex, all of which are necessary to carry on -- is there enough left to make this worthwhile?  But you don't need to deal with that question tonight.  Tonight is between you & that glass of wine.  

[Seashells]

Anyway, I guess I should validate something here. Tomorrow I will validate him. Tonight I am going to validate a glass of wine.

Love it!

His framework doesn't make sense.  :)on't worry about making sense of it.  However, at some point, it does leave the question -- once you finish discarding his framework and his reactions and ignoring his hurtful relationship with his ex, all of which are necessary to carry on -- is there enough left to make this worthwhile?  But you don't need to deal with that question tonight.  Tonight is between you & that glass of wine.  

Dear Patient,

Thank you for this post.  I think it is one of the best things I've ever read.  I've followed Elemental's struggle, and her post just before yours hit me so hard because it could have come straight from me.  It almost made me feel ill, no actually it did make me feel ill. I read the posts and think this is how it's going to go for me as well if I don't do something. 

What a question. 

However, at some point, it does leave the question -- once you finish discarding his framework and his reactions and ignoring his hurtful relationship with his ex, all of which are necessary to carry on -- is there enough left to make this worthwhile?

Thank you.

[123Phoebe]

Hi elemental,

Speak of the devil.

He emailed me. He says he is afraid to say anything to me because I might repeat it to his ex and set that drama off even further.

Anyway, I guess I should validate something here. Tomorrow I will validate him. Tonight I am going to validate a glass of wine.

How would it make you feel to not know anything about his ex?  To just step away completely from her - gone?  The reason I ask is because I think if I wanted to continue on in this relationship, I would put a boundary up of 'don't want to hear about the ex, want nothing to do with her', and sticking to that boundary.  If she calls or emails you - ignore, delete, hang up as if she's a telemarketer, pushing hard to make that sale = and she's selling crazy = CLICK!

And if your boyfriend insists, do the same thing.  All that craziness is between the two of them, it has nothing to do with you.  You could even validate his feelings around it using S.E.T. - Yes, you can understand his fear surrounding the ex's drama (support).  It must be hard having to deal with it all (empathy).  Because you realize it can suddenly turn into such a volatile situation for all parties involved, you are going to remove yourself from the 3-way dynamic.  You don't wish to know or discuss anything pertaining to the ex (truth).

Using your own words of course, but is this something that's feasible?  :)o you have to know anything about her?  :)oes it enrich or enhance your life in any way shape or form?

She's the mother to his children, she's going to be around for a long time.  :)oesn't mean you have to be involved with her though... .   And if he's still sleeping with her?  Well then, that's a whole 'nother issue... .   She wouldn't really be considered the 'ex'... .  

[elemental]

What he is saying is that he wants to be back close, but he is anxious. He wants reassured that I will not add to the drama. And if he IS sleeping with her, of course he would want my silence.

On the second one, I don't know. They appear to be in some of the biggest conflict I have seen them in for 3 years.

I always accepted that he has responsibility as a father, that he loved his daughter. She was always a priority for us. Now the baby. I am still processing that. The little boy is an innocent and I believe BPDbf is conflicted. He was able to start putting some distance in before the baby, now he is in a constant battle with the ex. Or whatever she is. At this point I would believe almost anything. On my side, it is important to keep enough detachment that I don't get sucked into all that again.

Yes, Phoebe, I can keep complete silence towards his ex. Certainly I understand the dangers at this point of any association with her. What was actually setting me off so much was internet woman... my level of upset after the last year broadly had risen so much that when his ex appeared the last couple of times, I just had it and felt so angry I whacked at her.

At this point... I woke up this morning and went to my online game and saw immediately that he was playing with internet woman. This little group of 5 or so people. Did this set me off as usual? Yes.

I remembered a couple of things: he is desperate to have his social group back.  And he doesn't care how I feel because to him, his FEELINGS are more important to him RIGHT NOW than how I feel. He already knows how I feel.

And I feel bad again. Sad, hurt, and angry. I won't be trying to talk to him today, for sure. He may have BPD, but he is deliberately doing things *still* that caused all of the horror to me in our relationship in the last few years.

I feel myself destabilizing again at a point where if I didn't actually care about it all, I would want to be calm, feel ok, and patiently rebuild with him. I actually think that is possible. Our relationship was awesome when I was calm and he was wanting to be around all the time.  So I know the key to it, but I guess I am feeling hurt again. Maybe a trigger, maybe just had it with what could be considered selfish, hurtful, and knowingly damaging behavior on his part.

I am trying to reframe it. It SCARES me that he keeps doing something he KNOWS devastated me and our relationship to the point where it could completely end.

How am I supposed to feel about that? And how many other things will he do, or is doing that I don't know about? Am I panicking again? I can feel it. This time no reaction to him, but it's in me again.

I remember the lessons where it said, for right now, basically take it for the team, because the goal is to re=establish trust and peace, and good communication, so you can get compliance from your BPD.

To answer you Patient... removing his framework, etc, is this worthwhile?

I am upset with him again. That burning pain is back in my chest over internet woman.  I actually feel more hurt over her than his ex, because he can't escape the ex, and this internet woman is a CHOICE.

I don't know. Probably a few days of silence from me to him while I think about it won't make anything worse.

[elemental]

Does anyone else find it suspect that the last 3 times he and I start to re-connect, the next day he immediately goes and makes sure to interact with internet woman?

Is this a deliberate provocation, a distancing maneuver... .  a test to see if I will actually stay calm? This happened in November, December and now today.

The rest of the time, as far as I can tell, he has not really been around her at all. Coincidence? Control?

[elemental]

This is a day of adventure.

He emailed and asked to chat msn.

So I agreed.

He talked. He rambled.

He doesn't know what to do. He says every day he is spiraling downward and he doesn't know what is wrong. He doesn't want to be supportive to his ex, he doesn't want to do much of anything. His affect is flat and bland. He says he sometimes sleeps at his office, for no reason except he doesn't feel like going home.

He says he thinks maybe having fulfilled his biological purpose ( children) he is fading away.

He says internet woman won't talk to him and he doesn't know why, even though he was in the game in that group.

I don't really know what to say or do. I just asked a few questions, encouraged him to take care of himself... eat, sleep, etc. and to maybe give some thought to what has gotton him so badly that he is feeling this way.

What can I do? He sounds like he is disassociating. He does want to talk more, but I don't know when.

Advice because I am confused and worried now. He was really nice, btw, no meaness, implied meaness or attitude at me.

[Cardinals in Flight]

Hey elemental!

I hear your sadness, I feel your angst.  I too have had a similar conversation with my pwBPD during a period of extreme chaos. 

My advice, and this is just me, (from experiencing what you are atm), is to do nothing.  As hard as that is, it would be better for you and for him if HE reaches out to you for help/conversation/emotional support, whatever.

Try really really hard to just 'be' right now.  I surely can identify with so much of the sadness and the sense of urgency that you may be experiencing right now, because you love him, you want to help him, you want him to feel better.  It's a very helpless situation to be in with someone you love so dearly, but in order for things to get better for the two of you? maybe it would be a good idea if he were the one to reach out to you first.

That way it's not you rushing in to fix, console etc.  So much, if not all of it, is about him anyway, you already know that.  It could very well be that after your nice exchange today on MSN, that he may reach out to you.

One other lil thing, I wouldn't stay signed into MSN, just rather go on about your everyday business.

These are just the things that helped me, I'd really like to hear you feeling better too.

Hugs

CiF

[123Phoebe]

I'm with CiF here; do nothing.  Just be... .   

[LetItBe]

Another vote for, ":)o nothing -- just 'be.'"

Usually, when questioning how to bridge the gap with my BPDex, the best answer was/is, ":)o nothing -- just 'be.'"  He usually needed space to figure things out on his own.  I personally have a "rescuer" tendency that I need to keep in check.

[123Phoebe]

It's times like these when taking care of yourself is really important... .   When you feel compelled to 'do' something.  Even thinking that you don't know what to do, is feeding the situation (that's out of your control) your energy.

He sounds rather depressed.  Perhaps his house of cards has started to topple, and he can't control it anymore?  All the 3 main women in his life seem to be causing him some sort of emotional discomfort, all at the same time... .  

This might be a good sign, for his own emotional health.  He might start to face himself now.  

Leave him be, don't give him any ammo to place the blame and shame he might actually begin to feel, on you.  

Do something you enjoy doing - go to the movies, get out of the house for a few hours, change it up... .   Change up your routine and let him feel his emotions.  

Oh, and sip a cup of tea   

[elemental]

I don't feel I can do much of anything. He seems the lowest I have ever seen him in almost 6 years now.

He knows I am here. I will take the advice here and do nothing for now. I was getting upset again this morning, so I guess I am not as far along as I thought. Been anxious all day.

[elemental]

He appears to be placing his shame and blame on himself by posting things about what a jerk he is and how mentally ill he is on his social page.

self immolation, I think.  I guess I should let him combust without interference? 

[123Phoebe]

He appears to be placing his shame and blame on himself by posting things about what a jerk he is and how mentally ill he is on his social page.

self immolation, I think.  I guess I should let him combust without interference? 

Yep.  He could be throwing himself a pity party, hoping that someone will pick up his slack, to pump up his ego.  Looking to feel better from outside influences.  How many 'healthy' minded people do you know that post such things on their social page? 

The first person that came to mind when I read this is an old old friend who is anything but healthy minded.  He has used helplessness and self-flagellation to garner all kinds of attention over the years   No doubt he needs serious therapy and had even sought it out once, but he'd come back around after and want even more attention; the therapy fed into his helplessness, used the excuse of needing therapy to remain stuck, but I digress... .  

It's so hard when you're all emotionally entangled, but at this juncture, I think I'd try and pretend I never saw his social page.  He is not seriously pursuing you for a healthy committed relationship, is he?  Leave him be... .  

[elemental]

At some point maybe he will get tired of it.

[laelle]

I am sure he is looking for some validation to the contrary,  but if he is posting it on his facebook and not to you personally, it would suggest he is looking for "outside support"  you know, from people who dont know how really bad he has treated people.  I would go enjoy yourself and leave his validation needs to someone else.  Its not your job.  You have told him you would be there if he came to you, but I wouldnt chase him down.

[LetItBe]

It would be hard to read about him suffering.  My rescuer tendency would be triggered, but I'd practice "Wise Mind" and turn the focus within instead.  From what I've read from oceanheart (who has recovered from BPD) here on the forum, he needs to learn how to deal with his own emotions, and if you step in, that takes away from his opportunity to learn how to do that.  You've let him know you're there for him.  

I know it's hard.  I'm forcing myself not to contact my BPDexbf right now.  I hope you're doing nice things for yourself.  

[elemental]

He still has me blocked on the social site IM. I am disinclined to try and extend myself while this push-pull is going on as much as it is.

Even though I understand he is in a bad place and may be BPD. I just don't see some of these things as necessary.

He has convinced himself that I am not to be trusted. Likely he is not making direct contact at me because he doesn't trust me not to talk to his ex, and because he thinks I am going to smack him around, even though I haven't said an unkind word in his direction for almost a month now. And of course he doesn't consider how I feel with what he has said and done to me.

I don't tend to run off and block people as a tool of control. He does it all the time.

He won't approach me right now because he is so anxious about it.

I still feel bad. I feel bad when I see these things. I feel the hurt, and I still feel angry, though this time when I felt some anger, it wasn't a lot, and it kind of died down to pain almost immediately.

I guess even if he is not managing better, maybe I slowly am.

[LetItBe]

I guess even if he is not managing better, maybe I slowly am.

I'm glad for you.  That's all we can do, really, and that is a lot!

[elemental]

2 months ago I would have been trying to sort it out, and if unsuccessful would have become upset enough to argue with him, even if on email... would have tried to state my case for being upset, tell him how bad things were making me feel, ask him for reassurance.

I comprehend the futility of it now. He isn't going to listen, care about my feelings, try and see what I need... .  because apparantly he decided it was more awesome to get into another massive conflict with his ex today.

Anyone here play tournement poker?

This kind of reminds me in some ways of the end part of the game where there are several players left. If you try to be really agressive amongst agressive players, you have 2-3 other players to play against. If you step back and quietly stay in the game by doing nothing but folding hands, the other players will often knock each other out until you are sitting there with only one other player to deal with.

There are too many players and agendas going here that are not in alignment with what I hoped to accomplish. Phoebe is right.

Am I sliding backward to admit that it really hurts today, a knife in the heart. I am in tears. I hate BPD or whatever it is he has going.  I don't see where anyone is better off today than they were 3 years ago when it all got massively ugly.

[Cardinals in Flight]

elemental says... .  

Am I sliding backward to admit that it really hurts today, a knife in the heart. I am in tears. I hate BPD or whatever it is he has going.  I don't see where anyone is better off today than they were 3 years ago when it all got massively ugly. 

I see someone who is better off! If for no other reason than you have some knowledge as to they "why" of BPD.  You aren't banging your head against the wall in circular arguments because now you know how to make that stop.  We all hate BPD, we wish we'd never heard of it, or that it is inflicted upon people we love so very deeply.  I know that for me? I may have gone on and never confronted some of my coure issues, my co-dependency issues.  I'd not be on a higher plane, (most of the time, I still struggle according to what sets me off etc) of understanding, I feel I'm even more compassionate but not in a manipulative way, if that makes sense.  I didn't even know I was doing that in the past, it was pointed out to me in therapy and truly a humbling moment. 

Are you back sliding? Oh heck no! I think you are strong elemental, and it's ok to cry and be upset, I cry and become upset, I so don't want to know about this stuff, but we do, and I guess we are in the light so onward we go.

Big hugs today, and tomorrow will be better, it's a process, a journey.

(())

[elemental]

I find some peace now in that I am no longer in this huge battle with him trying to understand why he made the choices he did as he was telling me how much he loved me. They were not congruent, though I could feel he loved me, I *knew* he did. He still does. I know he does.

I understand, I rarely feel that anger these days. When I first started posting as things deteriorated the last few months, people here asked me if I can forgive him. I don't know. I don't know for sure what forgiveness is... I don't want to hurt him, I don't feel any need to ask the questions I used to, ask him to stop chasing after internet woman ( what is the point, he will do as he likes).

He mailed me and said he was available to talk this evening msn, but not for long, as he would going to bed soon. I didn't see the message till later. Wrote and said I was sorry I missed him and hoped he was doing better.

I don't know if he will respond. Probably at some point.

I spent most of today I think grieving what I believed we could have been. That innocence you have when you first love someone. I listened to some of the music we have shared and it was bitterly painful to me.

And him? I don't know. I wish with all my heart, like so many of us here, that I simply would be loved. And no one would think I was doing bad things to them or hold grudges against me over video game money... .  throw me away because I said something well intentioned but they didn't like.

I understand the tools here. I am working at utilizing them when what little opportunity comes. I read 2010's posts. I read Oceanheart's posts.  I listen to Phoebe ( who might be a student of Rorie Raye) I practice mindfulness, I listen to buddhist teachings on youtube.

Probably I made my point about my efforts... but I still feel lost. And I still feel deeply hurt. I feel afraid and I don't know what to do except what I learned here. I don't know if it is helping. He is like a beaten animal. I never wanted to hurt anyone.  I saw a chance at happiness with a man I thought was awesome. I swear, the first 2 years I got all of these little wrinkles under my eyes because I smiled so much.

I think he loves me, but I am not sure anymore that he cares about me. He usually calls me "honey" but when he wrote to me today, he used my first name. It always jars me when he does that because he uses it so seldom.

I lost optimism and my mind plays games with me.

[patientandclear]

I swear, the first 2 years I got all of these little wrinkles under my eyes because I smiled so much.

This makes me sad in the same way as KL315 sharing when her (ex?)partner would have her go out & look at a constellation, say he was looking at it too, and tell her it was just like he was standing next to her.  It is so hard to accept that someone can be so present, open, insightful, perceptive, kind and loving, and then so absent, cutting, projecting, closed, fearful.

For what it's worth Elemental, it seems to me you are obviously doing everything right.  He is approaching you, very tenuously, but he is, and the approaches are getting more substantial.  An offer to talk is a far cry from where you've been.

I'm not saying he will be able to come back and stay back or that what he can give you is enough for you.  But is seems clear that what you are doing now is "working."