Interpretation

[Justadude]

In the past I use to be deeply affected by my exes remarks. Today I just question my reactions instead of over reacting. This weekend, my ex, during transition of our daughter, initially was saying sorry for being late and unprepared, she was sick, our daughter was just waking up and the place was a mess. No big deal. Life happens. So as I am waiting she does this thing about asking if I am angry, and I'm not, in fact I feel like its not a big deal, but then she questions me as if I am so angry. She has always done this. In the past the very question would irritate me to become angry. I pay it no attention, but I question why she always asks if I am angry.

The next event is when she picks our daughter up from my home. Things are cool, but she finds 10 ways to bring up things from the past that I was angry about. It's so weird. Half the time she's not even clear it's just I got mad for no reason. It's not like I got pissed off for some stupid reason. Beig cheated and lied to, played, and then strung along would hurt people, but she has no clue that was the initial incident. The thing that irritated me the most was how things have gone with raising our daughter and how I've literally had zero control on her quitting her job and just a host of What the heck moments that did upset me, but she finds a way to being it up. I wonder why she always feels the need to find ways to either send zingers or bring something negative up. When I say zingers she's kind of insultive, like always putting down things or being sarcastic.

Can anyone think of anything here?

[Exonerated]

Hello Justadude,

What is really going on here is situations reversed. You see, she feels anger and rage, but because of mirroring she is projecting anger and rage on to you.

Of course BPD behavior makes everyone angry, she seeks to try to get an angry response from you. My exBPDw used to do the twenty-questions routine, and she would "wear it out" to the point that I did become angry and then she would walk away feeling very justified at her own anger and rage.

Justification seems to be really important to BPDs. They try to stir things up to get an angry response then they can pretend to be so hurt and abused that the "poor little me" story seems to be credible.

So your only choice is to reflect it back. Suppose when the 20 questions game about anger begins, you reflect every question with another question ie... .  "what makes you believe I'm angry?", ":)id I say something that sounded angry?", and in this way you could not engage in the "let me provoke you to anger game".

My exBPDw, took the game to a different level when I refused to engage. She threw herself down a flight of stairs, then told me she did that to get bruises so that she could call the police and claim I abused her by pushing her down the stairs.

She called the police on me regularly claiming domestic violence. Fortunately, I had older children at home who explained to the police that she had done these injuries to herself. In time I came to be on first names basis with the police. For several months, my driveway was often full of police cars.

As BPD gets worse, they seek new ways to make you look angry and abusive. Unfortunately, I gave exBPDw 39 years and 10 months so that her actions went to the extreme.

Cheers,

[Shaktipat]

Hi Dude,

I usually post on the staying or undecided board,  but I read what you wrote and my husband does the same thing to me. It's like he always assumes that I'm angry,  even when I'm not,  and nothing that I'm aware of in my demeanor to suggest that I'm angry. He,  on the other hand,  is angry often,  so I think my husband is either projecting his anger onto me, or if he has made things difficult for me, feeling guilty because if someone had made things difficult for him,  he would be angry himself. Sometimes I also think it is his way of creating drama where there is none or trying to get me to engage in a conflict,  I don't know. I think he likes conflict because I think he feels relief or something after he has screamed and yelled. I don't give it to him. Anyway,  those are the only things I can think of.

[Shaktipat]

I agree with Exonerated,  when I don't engage,  my husband seeks other ways to create conflict. It's like he can't stand having a peaceful situation for any length of time.

[Justadude]

This is where my emotions initially deceive me in this situation. I initially just thought, she's just not over it as in things between us. I mean why else would you make those kind of comments? Then I get confused because there are conflicting niceness. For example, she makes a comment about cuddling in front of our daughter which I felt was inappropriate and cruel. Especially since she has a new long distance boyfriend. Next, as she was leaving and upping from me being angry, I caught a little hook because she made the comment, "oh dad does not have any bad thoughts about me". Which I joked a little about saying I don't. In the context of parenting I do. All else I could careless. But now as I see it as you point out its a way to press my buttons, to get a reaction and then if I respond be invalidating about the situation because she's so innocent. Man. How crummy.

The way you put it Exonerated is right. She most likely feels rage and anger and is projecting it. My therapist told me not to engage, but she does continue to throw the you are so angry or whatever a dozen negative things, it gets annoying. I've gotten better. I use to blame myself, like it was my fault. The reality is that behavior was there before me. It's real good to be able to gain clarity on this stuff. Wow it's a mess.

[Justadude]

This really makes me want to walk around with a hidden camera or microphone. Cause this stuff is crazy and my ex has called the cops on me too. It's a pia.

[Exonerated]

Hello Justadude,

While recording the stuff feels good, usually you can't even get anyone to listen to it. Unfortunately, we could be recording just to justify ourselves. Don't worry, we all do it.

Most of the time we are better off just not engaging. Reflecting questions, causes the BPD to be stumbled trying to explain why they are asking. The bottom-line, if you can maintain not engaged, you can keep your sanity. You can survive this, but not without effort and thought. I know how emotional it can be, been there done that.

I was divorced from her Oct 2009, so last October was 3 years, and amazingly the more time away from it passes, the memories of what went on trip my weird alarm even more!

Cheers,

[Shaktipat]

I think Exonerated is right about reflecting it back.  My husband will often do something to irritate me,  and then later ask me,  "what's wrong? " I turn it around on him and say,  "that's interesting,  sweetie,  why do you ask that? " and he chooses not to respond,  so no conflict,  he's not interested in interacting.

[myself]

It's projection. We get poked at and prodded so the dents will help the projections stick better. It mostly affects us when we go along with it. If your reaction's dull, or better yet no reaction at all, it's a smoother surface which mirrors it back to the projector. The pain, the blame, the shame. Unable to accept what they are seeing, the attempts to project it back that much harder occur. Including while the projector is running away from the scene of the crime, so to speak. Although there is no real crime here: We're ALL just looking to feel better somehow. How we go about that either helps or hurts, ourselves and others.

[Justadude]

Thank you all for the responses. I was doing some additional reading and thinking about this. My limits are, I don't want to get into a discussion with her about it. When she makes an accusation to me about me being angry, I'll simply say, "no, not at all.". When she pushes it to the next level which is her saying, "you are always angry with me". I'll just blow it off like I do. She is the kind of person I think that will not lash out to make herself look bad. I think she's the kind of BPD that pokes for the reaction for her own validation. I also think that as noted in, "Walking on Egg Shells", as I suspected, she uses this to give her an identity. So if I feed it in anyway I am encouraging her continued behavior. I need to take the stick away.

When she makes remarks about specific past events which are only part truth, I will hold strong and continue to take personal inventory of why she is pressing my buttons, but I will not engage. She is a very unsafe and dangerous woman for me.

Thanks everyone...

[just me.]

Here's my simple way of understanding it (by way of example):

- She wants to tell you (or perhaps reiterate to you) that the only reason she cheated on you is because you deserved it due to some new reason she's come up with.

- It doesn't work to just say "I cheated on you because you deserved it" as a non-sequitor, so the better plan is that she'll just tell you how awful you are and how much you deserved it the next time you seem upset about it all.

- The trouble is, you didn't mention the cheating the last time... .  or the time before that.  Now she's seeing you again, and you're still not raising it?  It begins to drive her crazy... .  she has this itch to scratch and she doesn't think she can wait any longer!

- So she drops hints, says subtle things... .  pokes and pokes and pokes and pokes.  Until she eventually gets the excuse to initiate the "how dare you put this all on me!" moment she so desperately needed.  You're mean... .  you deserved it... .  she's more sure of it now than ever.

- Now she can run home to the new lover... .  barely able to wait the whole car ride home before telling him how petty and cruel you were this time.  "See what I endured for all those years?"

New Lover:  "It's okay, sweetie.  Of course you're right.  He said what to you?  Of course you're right.  It's okay.  You're safe now."

[just me.]

Also, it sounds like our situations might be somewhat similar.  I also share joint physical custody of my children with my ex.  It makes the standard advice of "no contact" obviously not a possibility... .  and even makes "minimal contact" impractical.

Would I prefer to just move on and not know what guy she may "love with all of her heart in a way that makes her feel so much better than she ever did when she was with me"?  Of course... .  but as a parent, the transition to other men lying on the couch with their mother is something I need to be aware of and involved in.  The prospect of no hurtful moments and constant emotional distance is unlikely.

Can I ask how long ago this all ended?  Are you trying right now to settle into a healthy emotional pattern "for the long haul", or are you still dealing specifically with the detachment and the grief?

[Justadude]

I sent you more background privately. We been officially finished for a year and a half. We never had a stable relationship. I'm past the grief of the relationship. I'm vulnerable in my day to day interactions because we have a child together. An awesome child. I am a very proud parent despite the unfortunate crummy stuff. I am extremely vulnerable because that so I need to maintain control of myself and put my best foot forward for our daughter. I've been dealing with my ex for 5 years and a tremendous amount of grief and agony. Hell have no fury like a person with BPD. It's been a year and a half since I said eff it. My dad passed away and it was a turning point.

Family is also a huge vulnerability.

[bpdspell]

Hey Just a Dude,

Projection is absolutely what your BPD is doing. She's trying to get you to feel her inner pain by copying and pasting it on to you. Projection keeps you on the defensive and in communication with her on her terms where your reaction can be twisted to better feed into her disorder. It really boils down to her wanting to be in control in whatever ways you allow her to be. The projections are a bear traps that can be avoided. Don't bit the bait. Being neutral does work as well as mirroring. Reading this link about projecting should help:

BPD BEHAVIORS: Projection

Spell

[GreenMango]

Projection made me feel a little crazy too.  Being told how we feel, especially when it's wrong, is a huge boundary violation.

Like others said it sounds like a mix of projection, and it also sounds a little bit of what I like to call the 'set up' or projective identification.  It's when a person does things that will elicit a typical response like 'anger' or 'irritation' to get that response.  Usually happens when they need you to be angry with them, or to resolve some unresolved issue.  It's really just a passive-aggressive, covert, or round about way, of addressing an issue they are having and putting the resolution of it in someone else's lap. 

One bonus of a relationship like this is it gives a person a crash course in emotional maturity and skills... .  like being able to get a bead on this when I see it and to pass that stuff either back (nicely) or set it down.  It's easier when you see it coming.

Frustrating stuff for sure... .  but having a plan helps.  Your approach in staying centered for your kid is great idea.

Have you checked out the Raising kids board?  The parents there have some good strategies on how to minimize this conflict.