12 days NC from her just got a text. Wow.

[chuckstrong]

after 12 days NC her/10 days NC me i just got a text

it said "hi." thats it . "hi"

wow. are you freaking kidding me, HI. really?

what i i supposed to say... .  oh hey how are you? how have the past 12 days been?

Hi. how are you?

what is she doing?

What the heck?

thoughts?/suggestions?

Chuck

[RedCandle]

I've had cycles of NC that range from a few days to 7 weeks.

Let me tell you... .  anything after a few days becomes very painful.

In my case, I got nothing more than, "I love you" or "beautiful."

That was it.

And I took the bait every time.

I think they are just testing the water... .  will he respond? If so, how? will he ignore?

Its less on the line for them... .  the less they put out.

I don't have any good advice... .  I have always responded... .  and the cycle continues... .  

I'm currently about 23 days or so No Contact... .  its very hard... .  

... .  and you're half hoping it continues (so you don't get baited)... .  and half hoping to hear from them... .  

But I FULLY understand how frustrated you are!

[recoil]

What do you want to do Chuck?

Looks like you might be mad and that might be a good thing.  I think I'd wait for the next text before I responded with anything.  And I'd keep my response very short.

[oletimefeelin]

She's noticed that you have stayed quiet so long and she's scared.  Rather than write a novel per usual, she puts out something non-threatening and innocuous.  She'd like you to show your hand first, at which point she restates her rambling reasons for your current predicament.  Then you start the clock over again.

Also, she's fishing for one of your patented "I miss you's" to soothe her.  Do not do it. 

As hard as the distance has been for you, it does seem like you have begun to recognize the patterns.  This part gets easier to see, but harder on the head.  So your anger is very appropriate.

[Washisheart]

She senses you distancing so she is trying to reel you back in

[chuckstrong]

RC/Recoil/Oletime/Washisheart

thank you for the great obsevations/suggestions... .  i appreciate it.

gonna stay NC and see what happens next... .  a fishing expedition no doubt.

im still shaking my head though... .  "hi" after 12 days... .  "hi"... .  this is a person that has wriiten me so many 2-5 page dissertations via email ive lost count and she says "hi" its almost laughable at this point.

Chuck

[Seashells]

Hang in there Chuck! 

I can't help but agree with the sentiment of others, this seems like a fishing expedition because you've 'upped the ante' and haven't responded.  At least in my case, there were a lot of mixed emotions involved in that as well when it happened, as I knew the end of the silence was going to bring on a pursuit.   (this is a large part of why it seems to become addictive and unhealthy, it's like Pavlov's dog, I knew it was only a matter of time and I'd start drooling (not literally   well okay maybe sometimes  )  and it's VERY VERY VALIDATING for US!  Hey!  You finally figured out I'm so wonderful, right?  You finally see how much I love you!  You finally see _____ (insert words which validate us).   

I would expect she may escalate it if you don't respond, and while that will most likely feel like a relief emotionally (and may make you feel stronger while she is doing it), hang onto your hat!  Because it's really hard to ride out those emotions unless you can seriously detach and get on with your own life. You may fail, and that's okay, just try not to lose your heart or sanity while doing so.   

I hate to say it, but hope you will also consider the possibility she may have someone else involved, and that's why she can continue this for so long in between, (ouch, sorry I know that one hurts, been there and had to come to that realization myself)

I'm going to guess even when you start seeing it for what it is, it's still really hard to resist getting pulled back into it.  It's a process I guess.  I'm still learning too.  I'm going through it again myself to a great degree, feels like being pulled back down into a hole when I was half way out already.  But as of the moment I can't seem to bring myself to post about it.  I can say the relationship I'm in has improved with the efforts I've made with the tools on here as far as not making things worse, etc.   We are communicating.  My ... .  nevermind    I just realized if I continue I WILL end up hi-jacking this into something else. 

Best wishes to you.  Be strong, be healthy, I hope you find the strength to focus on you a little more than her and search for those things that help you feel strong and healthy and stay that way.  Taking care of you isn't being selfish.  I hate the word selfish.  I'm going to guess most of the people who post on this board don't do a lot of things for themselves because they have trouble juggling the idea of taking care of themselves with being 'selfish' which doesn't seem like a very complimentary verb or adjective; nor part of speech.  .  Taking care of yourself and your happiness and making sure you're emotionally strong has nothing to do with the uncomplimentary connotations of the word 'selfish'.  (sounds good, realize I'm coaching myself here too!)

Rant over.   

I wish you well, and wish you strength. 

Seashells

[chuckstrong]

thanks seashells

everything you said right on target... .  its hard and i have mixed emotions for sure... .  


recieved follow up text at 345 AM she said: sorry for texting you... .  had a moment of extreme

weakness/loneliness/sadness. hope you are okay. sorry.

this stuff is so consuming and energy draining... .  and seemingly never ending.

not sure what will happen next... .  ?

Chuck

[RedCandle]

Oh... .  I've gotten those too... .  

"Sorry to have emailed... .  "

"Sorry to be such a bother... .  "

"Clearly, you never cared... .  "

"I've made a fool out of myself by contacting you... .  "

Be prepared for her to step up the game.

I'm not sure what the best move on your part is but I know more experienced members will chime in.

I just learned about "extinction bursts"... .  dramatic moves when they feel abandoned.

I never believed this until recently when I stopped responding to his emails... .  and he drove 4 hours in the dark to show up at my office.

THIS go-round... .  there have been no "bursts"... .  just dead silence.

Stay strong! This part is the worst!

[oletimefeelin]

Chuck,

I used to get a lot of calls after midnight.  I never really answered, so waking up to that was always a joy.  This is your show, but if I were you I'd lay low. 

Remember this is only as exhausting as you let it be.  Someone above asked you what you want.  This is an important question for you to answer.  Focus on this right now and we can advise accordingly.

[blurry]

 How bad is this, im on day 10 of mutual NC and im jealous. At least you know that youre on her mind. What good that does, i have no idea, but its something. Praying mine breaks NC.

Oh in my experience, i inadvertantly went NC the time before last only because i was exhausted physically and emotionally after going on an 8 day binge and blowing up her phone the whole time with texts. She broke NC after 14 days. I got "hope you had a nice birthday" (10 days late), during the afternoon, then, after i assume she'd been drinking, "guess you dont want to talk to me" around midnight. I waited 3 days to respond and then we got right back together.

I didnt know she was BPD or had BPD traits till after she kicked me out/broke up for the 3rd and final time, so im thinking, when i did respond to her properly over the 8 month r/s, i did it unknowingly.

Bottom line, i dont know how id respond Chuck, but would love to be in that position at least, guess id suggest holding off and forcing her to be less cryptic?

If my ex texted after midnight id have to assume she was drunk/high too. Again, not sure what difference that would make. Although i know what nights she drinks and im conctantly looking at my phone in hopes she breaks NC those nights in particular. Guess im in a bad spot right now but i am living life under the assumption that ill never see/hear from her again.

Come to think of it, arent we supposed to mirror them when they make contact? Respond to a "hi" with a "hi" ect?

[Seashells]

Chuck,

For me this was the part where doing some soul searching really came into play about LC vs. NC.   Deciding what I wanted, what I could accept and what I could not. (within the only choices I could control of course, MY OWN).    Have you read any of the articles on here about them?  (LC vs. NC).   Although I have only a few posts I've been reading here for a few months.

All of this really helped me, in a nutshell what I got from it is going completely NC becomes a game (and I believe this is true) if you don't stick to it.  It can become passive aggressive hurtful and unhealthy if you can't stick to it and stay with it.   So, figuring out what YOU want and what you can and cannot do is empowering and important.  I broke NC soo many times, it just didn't work for me.  I went to LC to 'buy myself' some time to think, but previously my situation was a circle that would always escalate if I didn't respond.   

The messages would start out either neutral such as the ones you're getting, or nicely, (also sometimes got the 'sorry I contacted you ones'  they then went to pleading, then if I didn't respond they went to angry, and then innuendos regarding desperation.   At that point I would cave.  (This was always after I had been dropped, and did not pursue contact in any way. Wrote those letters which never got sent.)  In fact, I often would say in advance, " I know how this goes, so next week or in two weeks when you change your mind, please don't contact me."   It always, always, always happened.  Early on I would get anxiety over never hearing from him again, later it was anxiety over trying to do NC while he escalated contact. 

It was craziness, we were breaking up every three weeks to a month and I was engaging in this over and over while realizing it was madness. 

My r/s is a little different in that it's a long distance r/s part of the time, and there has been a divorce and an ex involved.  And quite a bit of triangulation (read definition). 

I've been learning alot about myself and trying to improve me.  I decided to stop trying the NC because I couldn't totally commit.  I did the LC, started reading about communication techniques to stop making it worse.  (I felt this was good for me either way).   I also drew my boundaries, not like steel immovable fences, but like permeable walls with room for communication to move back and forth, but still making it clear in a kind voice and gentle tone that I can't and won't accept certain things any longer. I don't have to be mean or cold or angry in order to not accept it.  (a lesson for me, often previously reacting out of anger, understandable anger, but none the less anger)

I'm saying all of this in the hope that if she does respond to the NC by escalating and starting to chase YOU, that you might be able to avoid going in more circles with it over and over.  Or at least lessen it by recognizing it.   It wears on your soul.

My situation as crazy as it is right now, seems to be improving.  I've got just a wee bit of hope and am open to the future if I can stay solid and be strong. 

One of the things I'm learning is there doesn't have to be 'absolutes' or 'forever mores' in this situation, (black and white thinking).  I can make a decision I feel is best for right now and adjust accordingly as things go on. 

But I am trying to stay emotionally solid, and that's become my number one goal.  I can express my needs and wants calmly, SET and DEARMAN really have helped. 

Good Luck.   No one can predict what she will do next, but when you can accept it either way and not ruminate, I find that to be the best feeling of peace.  (Hard not to sometimes and I'm still working on it all the time).   I think it's some of that Radical Acceptance stuff sprinkled in there too.   

Hope I'm not rambling too much. 

Be well. 

And P.S.  I strongly suggest whatever you do try to approach this from a position of strength even if you decide on LC and she pursues.  Make sure her contacts are 'requiring a response' before you respond.  Does that make sense?  In other words, don't chase her after that last comment if you decide LC is best.  Do it after she sends you another message that requires a response in order to not be rude.  Like if she asks "how are you?".   

Just my .02  FWIW

[chuckstrong]

thank you seashells

great post ... .  very informative... .  yes i think LC could in fact work better for me

than NC... .  

so much to think about with this stuff... .  it shouldnt be this hard should it?

i am debating the merits of a short response but can see both sides right now

brutal... .  is what this is.

chuck

[Newton]

Imagine just for a minute you are a fish... .  you can see a juicy delicious worm with the words "hi, eat me" written on it... .  you know full well there is a hook buried in that worm but my god it looks tasty!... .  you know full well that you are being a fish in your desire to gobble that worm up... .  you sense the fear of the "hookiness" about it all... .  you have been here before... .  flapping on the river bank... .  terrified... .  thinking "why on earth did I bite!"... .  and yet you still bit... .  

It's your choice to bite , or not... .  

Chuck... .  I could show you my phone with saved messages with a "hi Newton, how are you"... .  then after a few seemingly pleasant exchanges it goes south... .  quickly and badly.

Deep down, although it sucks... .  you know how a response will turn out  

[chuckstrong]

Hi all

update:

i did in fact respond this evening to her text(s) with

"no worries. i understand. hope you are okay."

SO... .  she just texted back " Hanging in there. Hope you are too."

funny how last night she was sad,lonely and weak but tonight shes hanging in there

she probably noticed i havent mentioned how im doing at all

im assuming the consensus will be to leave that last text from her one alone and head back

to the dusty old NC trail... .  well here we go again 1 hour NC!

this SUCKS... .  it really does.

Chuck (clearly not that Strong)

[Seashells]

Only you can decide what is right for you. 

Some of the advice in the reading lessons here are counter intuitive to how we want to automatically handle things, or our natural response.

I think your response may have just reassured her your still hanging around for her.  Because her texts to you really didn't require a response.  She probably said sorry I had a weak moment to see if you'd get triggered into responding. 

So, I would say if you want this to continue as it's been keep doing things the same way.  If you want more from her, you're going to have to 're-set' the dynamics. 

She's most likely not going to give you more than you're getting from her now because you're not requiring her to do anymore than she's been doing now to keep you engaged in this 'quasi-relationship'.

Make sense?  She may or may not respond with more if you try to require more from her to keep you engaged in a relationship.  That's why you're heart has to be in it for yourself and your own sanity before you can do it.

You have to be able and willing to let go of the outcome either way.  When you do, amazing things could happen, either way. 

I came to a point where I've let go many times, obviously not enough or not completely.  Many times I honestly did not want the contact or to continue to be re-engaged in it.  At the same time I still cared about him.

When you are fed up enough you will get there. 

[Somewhere]

12 days sounds like a good start.

Maybe see if you go 100?

[chuckstrong]

UPDATE CHUCK  (NOT SO STRONG)

hi all... .  its been almost two weeks since i posted... .  thats because ive been caught up in the euphoria () of her most recent recycling of me... .  i must love breadcrumbs because thats what i'm getting ... .  It all started up again on the 14th of January after 12 days NC got the "hi" text... .  then after many more texts then calls she informs me she is sad and lonely and needs to lean on me... .  she's having various medical procedures and fears the big C badly... .  she's sorry if she's leaning on me too much... .  she still loves me and misses me but still needs to see this break-up /alone /space thing to fruition... .  she ramped it up this past Friday at 5pm with this text------ " I am tempted to meet you for dinner tonite if you don't have plans but on the other hand i feel guilty being in touch with you what so ever" ----... .  she then called we agreed to meet with a no kissing sleeping together proviso initiated by her... .  we met 1 hour later... .  had a blast laughed and only hugged a few times... .  it was SO weird... .  I hadn't seen her since NOV 3 she looked good... .  was all i could do not to want more... .  we left each other soon after dinner ... .  she called/texted alot that night and thru the weekend up till another late night call last night... .  today NC so far ()... .  i am playing the perfect "friend" all about her like usual even when things were "good"... .  this quasi-relationship feels really one sided and bad for me yet i persist... .  seems better than NC i tell myself cause that was absolute h***... .  this ssucks but it must be better than NOTHING... .  really Chuck? really?

SO, i ask each and everyone of you... .  WHY?

WHY do i continue to let her toss me breadcrumbs torture me and give me really nothing while i still grovel and let her pat me on the head like a puppy dog? WHY? am i that damaged by this? this is not me! Do i have Stockholm Syndrome? PTSD? What?

She is so patronizing at this point and in control its ridiculous... .  i hate it... i feel like an absolute idiot even posting this amongst friends who can empathize with me... .  i know its wrong... .  i know its killing me... .  WHY cant i stop? Do i really think she's just gonna wake up and say sorry Chuck the torture iv'e put you thru the past 8 months was a mistake... .  you are the person i put up on that pedestal

i LOVE YOU so so much lets go back to the honeymoon stage OK?

If not than why do i continue to be treated so patently like S***? WHY?

all comments suggestions support and help readily accepted.

God bless.

Chuck

[tuum est61]

UPDATE CHUCK  (NOT SO STRONG)

SO, i ask each and everyone of you... .  WHY?

Chuck

Oh Chuck,  You love her, AND you are UNDECIDED, that's why.  

You might try not beating yourself up (or her) for what is going on here - there's BPD involved.  

So now what?  Restart the NC counter?   How is monitoring an NC counter working for you?  

And tell me what you mean when you say she is "so patronizing and in control"

[chuckstrong]

Tuum

she acts like she's doing me a favor being in touch with me at all and

we are just old pals it seems now i'm there to support her pletera

of medical/work/XH/kids issues... .  she is using me and giving me breadcrumbs in return... .  IT SUCKS!

Chuck

[tuum est61]

Tuum

she acts like she's doing me a favor being in touch with me at all and

we are just old pals it seems now i'm there to support her pletera

of medical/work/XH/kids issues... .  she is using me and giving me breadcrumbs in return... .  IT SUCKS!

Chuck

Sharing her concerns and acting like an old pal seems a little forward given the status of your relationship, but I expect she's always done that. I dont see it as patronizing but I do see it as potentially crossing boundaries.  

Has she actually asked you to do anything with regard to the plethora of items?  It is a choice as to whether you act or just listen.  What boundaries do you think you can set around any expectations she may have?  

[chuckstrong]

No she hasn't asked directly but I volunteered to take her to her doc apt

Friday (she's worried) but she said her Dad will go and she will call me right when she gets out. NC again today so who knows. its BRUTAL !

Chuck

[patientandclear]

Hi Chuck.

I think you need to be brave here.

Your current choices are: enter into this twilight zone of "old pals" interaction with her, or, tell her that you want more if you are going to be in touch, so unless/until things fundamentally change for her, you need to say goodbye.

You can pick which one of those you prefer.

What isn't currently available is a return to the kind of romantic interactions you have had in the past.  Not saying could never happen, but it is not on offer right now.

I've just posted on two boards about the comparative success of my friendship with my uBPDexbf.  We're doing that old pals thing that you are experiencing as inadequate, and it is inadequate -- I know it well from my own experience -- if what you are wanting is a return to being lovers.

I think we get stuck when we act as though, by wishing, we could make a third way possible -- where you are in contact and everything is fine romantically.  We are beginning to make peace with ourselves if we choose among the paths that are actually available.  She is telling you clearly she is not able to be a full romantic partner to you at the moment.  So if you stay in touch, you might use some of the tools on the Staying board to work on radical acceptance of that and of where she is at right now, rather than expecting her to change.

And if you cannot do the "pals" thing without too much pain (I couldn't either, for almost a year, so totally respect that), then, you probably need to stop contact.  Because that is the only kind of contact on offer.

I know those are not the choices you want, but her condition is not permitting the one you want.  As some wise people on here have said to me, not accepting what is true is the source of a lot of pain.  Once you accept, you can see which choices are genuinely open to you and make a choice that is best for you.

[chuckstrong]

P&C

Thank you! I appreciate your input and analysis... .  you are right in that the

choice I want is not available so I need to choose between the other two.

After having dinner with her the other night (first time I saw her since NOV3)

I realized that the "old pals" thing will be very very unsatisfying and frustrating. I want more. I wanted very badly to have the dinner not end after two hours. In fact I have seen her in person only twice since Aug 30 for a total of 10 hours(8/2) . That's just not enough. So, until something fundamentally changes in terms of what she wants I need to act dramatically different here or just walk away. It feels like she slowly is losing her love and affection and respect for me BECAUSE i'm sticking around as the back-up plan/ lapdog if that makes any sense. . The walk away (NC) seems to be the way to go but I cant bring myself to stick to it. Last time I did for almost two weeks then caved in immediately when she sent a "hi" text. Maybe I can keep LC and be indifferent/aloof and she will come around at some point. I just go round and round in my head as to what is the best course of action. I read here and try to learn from others and their experiences. A lot of great advice but no panacea seems to jump out at me.

SO, The only thing I DO know is I have to do something different because

the current situation is extremely untenable to me and it is literally killing my spirit. Dealing with/recovering from someone with BPD (w/NPD traits) feels like the hardest thing i've ever had to go thru. As wonderful (and I mean wonderful) as the honeymoon/idealization stages WERE this is correspondingly just as HORRIFIC these feelings on the other side of the coin.   

THANK YOU to all my great support(ers) here. This place has been a blessing and a God send for me.

As usual please feel free to comment and make suggestions to me. This

is just so so hard on all of us here.

Chuck

[Cardinals in Flight]

I too can be sympathetic to what you are going through, as I am

"old pals" with my former g/f and there are times that it sucks! 

Try being LC? the acting as if you are indifferent can spur you on to better things... .  feeling better about yourself and maybe getting on with your life.  When I let go to the point I was ready to just be alone, that I really was ok then my situation began to change with my pwBPD.  Something about me being the stronger self-confident type (which I really am until I met her, OMG) worked in my favor and our r/s now is better than what "was" ie, the idealization\romantic phase.  This will not be the case for everyone of course, I still wonder if Im nuts some days.  But at least you'll get some of your mojo back.

Good luck, I feel for ya

CiF

[patientandclear]

Chuck,

Several thoughts.  First, it may help to consider whether not being in a sexual/romantic r/s with her is actually a choice YOU believe is right & loving--not just something she's decided that you have to swallow or contest.  She is clearly really tortured about all this. Perhaps it's a loving thing to do to step back & affirm that you love her AND that you can see that being intimate right now is not a healthy thing.  I am struck by her comment a few weeks ago that she thought you were different, meaning, not just into her for sex.  I think in a variety of ways she is telling you, like many of our BPD partners do when things fall apart, that you are very important to her but she cannot let you all the way in right now.  If so, what about YOU making and owning the choice not to push it right now, & conveying that to her.  Seems like that might take a lot of the pressure off.  I realize what I'm suggesting there is hard emotionally given how recent & raw this isn but really, do YOU want to be intimate with smeone this chaotic about her most fundamental feelings?  Does that honor either of you?

Second ... .  this is the perspective of 18 months out & 10 months of strict NC, so I know it is easier for me to say this than for you to hear it, but ... .  I am finding the "old pals" thing quite interesting.  It is not not romantic, if that makes sense.  It's like a really slow, old fashioned or Amish courtship or something.  Just throw in some buggy rides & we're there!  That view comes from me being very centered & still, watching what he does, really listening, taking seriously where he is. It's another way of loving someone.  In many respects I find it better than the initial idealization b/c it is based on reality & real effort on both of our parts.

I could not have done it right away because I was still so disappointed that we were not going to be everything he'd promised, in that initial desperation.  Maybe it's too much to suggest that you consider seeing her current overtures this way.  But I think it is both true that she cannot be with you in a routine romantic way right now, & that she is trying to stay close to you & you are important to her.  That's a complex reality.  If you need to step away for a while to get your feet under you, I suggest explaining to her simply and honestly that you accept where she's at, it will require some time & distance for you to heal, & if/when you can, you will be in touch. I think that's very different than the kind of gamey "I'll distance her & see if she comes around" approach. Be honest about why you're going away--it's not that you don't care, it's not to manipulate her.  That is a posture I think you'll find it easier to live with down the road.

Remember, if you manipulate her into a short-term tryst by pretending to be withdrawing ... .  what have you won?  She's still terrified of losing you, & now you've shown her she should be. I suggest looking for a more loving coursze-more loving toward you both.

[Cardinals in Flight]

Clarification here Chuck!

When I said above to "act as if", I did not mean that to imply any type of game playing! It's actually a technique from a book I have read on co-dependency.  The theory of "acting as if... .  ", we are in control of ourselves when perhaps we are a mess inside, (thus not displaying our emotions on our sleeves to our significant other/people in general), is meant to help  us get outside our heads and be present in whatever life situation we happen to find ourselves.  I've implemented this for myself on several occasions, when in actuality all I wanted to do was talk seriously and be sad, and emotive, and it works!  You can defuse a difficult situation by "acting as if, things are better than they really are"  or that life is good or whatever you need at the time.  It's best at least for me (and my pwBPD) to stay focused on my emotions to keep them in check, while listening and validating in any given circumstance.

CiF

[chuckstrong]

thanks!... .  some very good and interesting thoughts!

its an emotional roller coaster for sure... .  gonna go with some serious "as if" some aloofness and some indiffference while keeping LC minimally and

respecting where shes at. gonna try and get my mojo back and move on so ill be good no matter what she does. i like it. feels better already.

cif-a tad confused tho you say "former G/F " but it sounds like you are together and things are very good/ what gives?

thanks PC great suggestions/observations!

Chuck

[Cardinals in Flight]

Chuckstrong wrote... .  "cif-a tad confused tho you say "former G/F " but it sounds like you are together and things are very good/ what gives?"

LMAO  , I'm confused too!  

Seriously, I describe what we have as an "unship", after the label of relationship was dropped, (implied committment, physical intimacy), we've gotten on very well, BUT, it would have never happened if I hadn't done some work on myself. Our relationship developed in a BPD textbook fashion, and when the fall-out began it was not pretty!  I didn't realize it, but I was making things worse by being co-dependent, soo, I've been working on myself a lot since the break-up which was almost exactly a year ago.  

The lessons I learned >> >> here, (to the right), and work with my T have helped me see that we were drawn to one another, and I was at a point in my life where I was vulnerable to her hot pursuit of me and constantly hearing  how wonderful I was!, gee, who wouldn't fall for that?

Learning to detach with love, and depersonalize works wonders!

Hope that helps, or at least gives a little more explanation

CiF

[schwing]

Hi Chuckstrong,

Here are some of my comments/feedback:

its an emotional roller coaster for sure... .  gonna go with some serious "as if" some aloofness and some indiffference while keeping LC minimally and respecting where shes at. gonna try and get my mojo back and move on so ill be good no matter what she does. i like it. feels better already.

The thing is, this "relationship" you are choosing to have with her is going to be a pattern of distancing alternating with inappropriate closeness (perhaps at some point).  Because for pwBPD, you're either "all in" or else you are "all out."  Right now you are "all out" but perhaps with the option to go "all in."  And who decides when you are "all in"?  She does.

What will be difficult is that she may just keep changing your role without any consideration for what your needs/your situation is.  It is all about what her needs are at any time.  The minute you start talking about what you want and need, if it doesn't coincide with what she wants/need then she will toss you to the curb.  She is afraid of abandonment, afraid of you leaving her; she has no problem with her leaving you.

... .  you are right in that the choice I want is not available so I need to choose between the other two.

After having dinner with her the other night (first time I saw her since NOV3) I realized that the "old pals" thing will be very very unsatisfying and frustrating. I want more. I wanted very badly to have the dinner not end after two hours.

What makes your choice difficult is that even though right now you have decided that you are not getting what you want.  You don't know if that isn't going to change later on.  Because chances are, she has been this way for the entire duration of your relationship.  A broken clock is right twice a day.

The problem is, even after you get what you want, there is no guarantee that it will stick.  In fact, there is a good chance that you will just have to go through the awful "break-up" that you just went through for reasons that have nothing to do with what you're going through.

It feels like she slowly is losing her love and affection and respect for me BECAUSE i'm sticking around as the back-up plan/ lapdog if that makes any sense. The walk away (NC) seems to be the way to go but I cant bring myself to stick to it. Last time I did for almost two weeks then caved in immediately when she sent a "hi" text. Maybe I can keep LC and be indifferent/aloof and she will come around at some point.

What you may have to learn to accept is that she isn't going to change in any fundamental way.  Sure, her feelings will change.  But her feelings have always changed.  And for a while she'll idealize you again.  And then she'll stop and put you through hell again.  How many times do you have to go through the wringer before you decide this isn't what you signed up for?  How much pain must you experience before you have learned what you need to learn?  There is no better instructor than pain.

SO, i ask each and everyone of you... .  WHY?

WHY do i continue to let her toss me breadcrumbs torture me and give me really nothing while i still grovel and let her pat me on the head like a puppy dog? WHY? am i that damaged by this? this is not me! Do i have Stockholm Syndrome? PTSD? What?

What if you do have Stockholm syndrome? or PTSD?  What would you do differently if someone told you, you were suffering from this?  In either case, don't you still have to *get away* from your captor or the source of your trauma?  What if you are suffering from something slight more limited than either of those conditions but no less difficult to handle?  What are you going to do to get the help you need, to do what you believe you need to do?

Why not just think of yourself as "addicted" to this girl?  How much heroin do you need to take before you stop being addicted to heroin?  What is your equivalent of methadone?

after 3 breakups and 7 months i still havent gotten an explaination... .  she says there are

"incompatibilities" she has identified... .  and my favorite... .  "you are so close to perfect but

not perfect enough for me"

really?

Actually I would argue that you are being "perfect" for her.  The "perfect" person for her is a person whose life she can come into and out of whenever it suits her.  And as long as she has a large enough supply of these "perfect" people, she doesn't ever have to face her own problems because she can just keep cycling between different people.  In a sense, people are her drug to use to avoid having to face her problems.

... .  "why cant i just end this" is a question i ask myself every single day... .   i have the power to not contact her and not respond when she contacts me... .  will i ever be able to do it?

You see, this is entirely up to you.  I know your *feelings* compel you do act otherwise, but it is your choice whether or not to act on your feelings.  In a funny sense, this is her problem as well.  She acts on her feelings as well.  It's just that her feelings change so often.  And she just flows with where ever her feelings take her.  Like a leaf on the wind... .  oh how she soars.

Your feelings are also taking you to many places.  What if you decide these are places you don't want to go?  :)o you surrender to your feelings?  Or do you do what you choose to do, and brave through the consequences?  When one stops taking a drug that one is addicted to, this is a painful choice.  There is the pain of the withdrawal.  And then there is the pain which drove one to take the drug in the first place.  Would you consider going to a 12-step program?  Perhaps for co-dependents?

i just had to do it... .  couldnt help myself... .  but at least it was the last time in 2012... .  after 3 days NC sent her a text miss you but havent been contacting you trying to leave you alone... .  i think its for the best i said... .  then i waxed poetic about i still love her so the friends thing wont work for me... .  then i talked about last year me and her on new years... .  SO maybe her ice cold response will really help me in 2013 go NC and free myself from this hell

she responded:

' i agree it is best we are no longer in contact. best for both of us . i too keep reflecting back to

 one year ago and how happy and peaceful we were. very surreal. sad. i greive for what we had.

 i hope this year brings a ton of healing for both of us. xo.'

I dont know why but it could just be the end of year thing but this time she sounds serious... .  im feeling hollow

really empty... .  it really feels over... .  could it be? she had broken up with me 3 times over 7

months and asked for NC a dozen times at least... .  could this be it?

Why are you leaving it up to her?  What if it is not in her interest to let you go but to keep you hanging, malingering so that whenever *she* needs you, you are there to be picked up and discarded after she is done with you.  She talks like she is interested in what is in your best interest, but I suspect that her needs take precedent over your needs.  That doesn't sound like love to me.

i guess ive figured that ill let her have her "space" and time and she will wake up and

come to her senses... .  i think that if i tell her i want her back badly or desperately it will push her

further away... .  like you said you get her back by not giving a ~... .  by being less available... .  

Let it sink in that she is not operating in the same way that you or I do.  She will not "wake up" and no longer have BPD.

etc etc. that what im trying... .  im great at NC as long as she doesn't reach out to me ... .  thats what i need help with

but in the end its a silly game... .  

It is *not* NC if you respond to her when she reaches out.  The minute you stop consciously choosing to be in NO CONTACT (NC) with her, is the minute you stop NC for yourself.  NC is a decision you make for yourself in order to save yourself.

even if i were to get her begging back in like many here have done its not gonna end well just like you said... .  we not walking down the aisle or staying together long term i know that but like a drug i just feel like id love just one more hit on the crack pipe... .  its sick i know i just cant help myself... .  apparently like many people that are here as well... .  so one day one hour at a time ill keep battling and hoping for strength... .  thanks for your input... .  i appreciate it man... .  youve given me great

advice... .  i got the playbook its all about execution now

So it's like "one more hit on the crack pipe"... .  what would you do differently if you found yourself addicted to crack?

omg... .  BPDxgf  just called i about jumped off the couch when i saw it was her... .  she wanted the

NC 8 days ago not me and so far i have contacted her zero times and she texted me on Thanksgiving/texted me yesterday and now ramped up to a call just now... .  left a VM... .  "hi its me

i know im not supposed to be caliing and i asked you not to call blah blah blah but... .  i miss you

and i just wanted to talk to you... .  im going to sleep now... .  hope you are doing ok... .  good night... .  "

i cant believe i didnt answer OR call back... .  could i be making progress? can i actually do this NC

thing? will she escalate the ramp up of communication if i ignore her?

Here's the thing.  When she texts you... .  that's contact.  Reset the clock.  Even if the text is just "ops, I accidentally sent you a text."  Have you considered getting a new phone number?  Or blocking her text number?  

It is up to you to decide how to maintain the NC.  And that means preventing her from contacting you.  If you leave a door open, then that's your decision to allow for contact, which is *not* NC.

Good idea thanks i will change the tone... .  i literally get a feeling of euphoria when i hear her text "bell" -- it relates back to the honeymoon/idealization stage when i got dozens of i love you sweetie type texts a day... .  Sad. Really sad.

That "feeling of euphoria"... .  that is your hit of dopamine.  You have been highly conditioned to anticipate and respond to any kind of contact from her.  In a sense, you've been brainwashed.  What would you do if you found yourself brainwashed in a way that you did not want to be brainwashed?

Here's the thing... .  

I do not mind how many times you go through this cycle.  Your cycle.  This is your merry-go-round of pain, not mine.  I have sympathy for what you are experiencing.  And I can only keep up with it for so much before I limit it myself because it's still to some degree a painful place for me to recall being.  You will still find people here who you can commiserate with.  But there may come a point in time where you need to ask yourself if this is only serving to enable you to continue this unpleasant cycle you find yourself in.  And if you make that determination, you may find that you will need to step up your game.  Or even worse, someone else here will insist that you do... .  that person will not be me.  But there are people who are responsible for moderating these boards, who may give you a nudge or two.  It's happened before to people such as you or me.  And as much as we want to help each member of our community, we also need to decide when we are actually helping, or only enabling someone that may have a problem.  And if a nudge is what you need to get the help that you need, then so be it.  After all, you are worth the effort.

Best wishes, Schwing