What would you do if you were your friend?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I did an exercise recently that involved physically stepping into 4 different quadrants on the floor. In the middle was my name - and written around my name was my main issue - guilt/shame/feeling less then.

Each quadrant was based a little bit on developing our cognitive abilities. For example we are pure emotion when we come into this world, as babies we base all of our life on emotion (we cry when we're hungry and we laugh when we're happy). The tired two year old who screams "no" is the assertive part of us who starts to know what we want. Then comes our ability to start to look at situations with a greater sense of what is going on (not so black and white) and form an opinion (that assessment of how it "should be". Then there is the developed part of us that puts all those together and takes each into account helping us stay grounded and wise. (A lot like Linehan's "Wise Mind" here)

It's kinda like using our whole brain in making a decision/assessment - and dissecting each part of it.  

4 Quadrants:

Emotions/Feeling

Assertive (yes/no)

Judgement/Perception

Using all three together (Wise Mind where our logic and emotions meet)

I would step into these four quadrants and look at my name and statements like "I feel guilty a lot." "I don't feel like I'm good enough".

It was a really interesting exercise for me - even my body language would change as I accessed each different part of my brain that deals with these matters at hand. I would relax when I stepped into the "Feeling" quadrant and just start to get annoyed when I stepped into the "Judgement" quadrant. I was talking in third person (it was a practice of stepping outside of myself). I used statments like:

Judgement/Perception: She lacks self-confidence/self-worth and it really shows.

Assertive: She should knock it off.

Emotions/Feeling: I have such compassion for her.

All three together: It makes sense why she feels the way she does and she has the ability to solve this but something is keeping her stuck.

And then I went around again with much of the same kind of dialogue.

Talking to the Invisible Me letting her know that she was smart, it must have been hard to deal with a difficult parent but that it hinders her in a lot of ways... .  having compassion for her standing in the middle so vulnerable... .  and noticing her for wallowing in a certain victim-mindset.

The final question, standing in the place where all of it comes together, was:

"Now what do you tell her? What if she were your friend? What would you say?"

It was simple for me.

I wouldn't be her friend. I don't like her.

I'd tell her enough is enough and to get some decent therapy.

It was my honest answer in that very moment after an hour of "leaning into the pain".

I can't figure out if it's more about my outlook or the person standing in the middle. I don't know how much I can actually change either of them... .  

It also says a lot. It's also helped to realize that I do have compassion for myself (I literally felt it as I stood in that quadrant) but it's not compensating for the judgement. I.am.so.irritated.with.myself.

What about others?

Would you be your friend?

If you could step outside of yourself and speak to you - what would you say?

[DreamGirl]

I did an exercise recently that involved physically stepping into 4 different quadrants on the floor. In the middle was my name - and written around my name was my main issue - guilt/shame/feeling less then.

Each quadrant was based a little bit on developing our cognitive abilities. For example we are pure emotion when we come into this world, as babies we base all of our life on emotion (we cry when we're hungry and we laugh when we're happy). The tired two year old who screams "no" is the assertive part of us who starts to know what we want. Then comes our ability to start to look at situations with a greater sense of what is going on (not so black and white) and form an opinion (that assessment of how it "should be". Then there is the developed part of us that puts all those together and takes each into account helping us stay grounded and wise. (A lot like Linehan's "Wise Mind" here)

It's kinda like using our whole brain in making a decision/assessment - and dissecting each part of it.  

4 Quadrants:

Emotions/Feeling

Assertive (yes/no)

Judgement/Perception

Using all three together (Wise Mind where our logic and emotions meet)

I would step into these four quadrants and look at my name and statements like "I feel guilty a lot." "I don't feel like I'm good enough".

It was a really interesting exercise for me - even my body language would change as I accessed each different part of my brain that deals with these matters at hand. I would relax when I stepped into the "Feeling" quadrant and just start to get annoyed when I stepped into the "Judgement" quadrant. I was talking in third person (it was a practice of stepping outside of myself). I used statments like:

Judgement/Perception: She lacks self-confidence/self-worth and it really shows.

Assertive: She should knock it off.

Emotions/Feeling: I have such compassion for her.

All three together: It makes sense why she feels the way she does and she has the ability to solve this but something is keeping her stuck.

And then I went around again with much of the same kind of dialogue.

Talking to the Invisible Me letting her know that she was smart, it must have been hard to deal with a difficult parent but that it hinders her in a lot of ways... .  having compassion for her standing in the middle so vulnerable... .  and noticing her for wallowing in a certain victim-mindset.

The final question, standing in the place where all of it comes together, was:

"Now what do you tell her? What if she were your friend? What would you say?"

It was simple for me.

I wouldn't be her friend. I don't like her.

I'd tell her enough is enough and to get some decent therapy.

It was my honest answer in that very moment after an hour of "leaning into the pain".

I can't figure out if it's more about my outlook or the person standing in the middle. I don't know how much I can actually change either of them... .  

It also says a lot. It's also helped to realize that I do have compassion for myself (I literally felt it as I stood in that quadrant) but it's not compensating for the judgement. I.am.so.irritated.with.myself.

What about others?

Would you be your friend?

If you could step outside of yourself and speak to you - what would you say?

[justnothing]

I must say, I love this topic… I've asked myself the same thing and similar things a number of times…

The question of "would you be your friend?" is kind of complicated because in that situation it depends on how you define "you" there…

My own first impulsive answer to it was similar to yours – "no way! I hate her!" but the thing is that that perception is colored by the domineering Judgmental part… but that's because it's more than just the Judgmental part…

I started a new course just recently and the other day I found myself being open and chatty with some of my new classmates. After the last lesson, on my way home, it suddenly hit me that in the past, with previous courses, I always used to be more introverted and afraid of approaching others… so right there and then I allowed myself to feel proud of all the work I've done in therapy regarding that and for a minute or so I had a positive view of that part of me – and, like a Pavlov effect, the inner demon immediately started harping on me and telling me "That's not true! This was just a fluke! It’s just temporary! You're worthless and good for nothing and don't you ever forget that!". But seeing as I'm familiar with that voice I just told it to bug off and continued to congratulate myself... .  However, telling it to bug off didn't and doesn't make it shut up… I've asked my therapist about it many times and she openly told me that she's not sure why it won't go away but last time she said she thinks it might be more like a Core Belief. She said that core beliefs get formed when our personality first develops by the input we get from our environment… and they are extremely difficult to shake (though not impossible) because they lie at the foundation of our personalities…

I'm not saying that your judgmental part is necessarily a core belief but it might explain why it seems to be the more dominant of the other parts of yourself that you described. Even your Assertive part seems kind of judgmental in its' statement of "she should knock it off". The two year old (the one from whom assertiveness came) is usually assertive towards others and not towards himself…

Anyway… back to the first part of this here post – my first impulse was to think "no way! I hate her!", my second thought was "Actually I think she's rather awesome and admirable in some ways and I'd love to have a friend like that", my third thought was "Well… actually… if I were a healthy person and I met me… I'd probably think "weirdo" and I might feel kinda sorry for me but I wouldn't want to be my friend simply because I wouldn't want to be seen with me in public", my fourth thought was "wait… does that mean I'd be an arrogant btch if I were a healthy person? Or do I just have a distorted or partially distorted perception of healthy people?" and my fifth though said "OK, this is not about what some stuck up 'healthier' version of me would think, it's about what I would think… but seeing as I've got totally conflicting views here (see thoughts #1 and #2) how am I supposed to know what I would think of me?" and then (thought #6) it occurred to me that in reality I know several people who have all the same issues that I do and some of them are a lot worse off than I am and when I look at them I feel nothing but compassion and I don't judge them for the way they are at all...

Which brings me to this part of what you wrote:

I can't figure out if it's more about my outlook or the person standing in the middle.

When looking at other people who have the same issues that you judge yourself so harshly for… how do you feel about them?

If the answer is that in reality you can be non-judgmental with other people who have the same "flaws" then maybe the problem you have with her isn't so much her flaws but with the fact that it's you and you, as opposed to everyone else, are not allowed to be that way…

Heh… I just remembered this girl I once knew who suffered from anorexia. She was skinny as a rail but was always obsessively trying to lose her imaginary fat… I probably weighed nearly twice as much as she did but I never had much of a problem with my figure… however one day I started thinking of shedding a pound or two and when I told her that I was thinking of going on a diet her immediate reaction was "NO! Don't even think about it! You look just fine the way you are!". She was worried that I'd become anorexic as well but I thought it was interesting to hear her say "you look fine the way you are". When looking at me (a different person) she was able to see me as someone within range of the acceptable norm but if she and I had swapped bodies she probably would have died, felt like an obese blimp and gone on an even crazier crash diet… but when looking at me, with her frame, she would have told me I look just fine and might have even realized that I look underweight.

[ambi]

Do you think most people are more critical of themselves than others?  Do you hold yourself to a higher standard than others?

Very interesting exercise.

[DreamGirl]

I'm not saying that your judgmental part is necessarily a core belief but it might explain why it seems to be the more dominant of the other parts of yourself that you described. Even your Assertive part seems kind of judgmental in its' statement of "she should knock it off". The two year old (the one from whom assertiveness came) is usually assertive towards others and not towards himself…

I took a training class for my [former] volunteer work (children's advocacy for families of domestic violence/abuse/neglect) - it was facilitated by a pyschologist that treats both abusers and victims in domestic violence situations. He stated at the very begininng of the class that "it is nearly impossible for someone to change their belief system." I think it was to help us let go of hope.

It became more of a practice in "managing" the situation.

So this makes sense to me. I feel like I've grown but I have not changed. Maybe it is a core part of me that I should practice not fighting so valiantly against.  

Anyway… back to the first part of this here post – my first impulse was to think "no way! I hate her!", my second thought was "Actually I think she's rather awesome and admirable in some ways and I'd love to have a friend like that", my third thought was "Well… actually… if I were a healthy person and I met me… I'd probably think "weirdo" and I might feel kinda sorry for me but I wouldn't want to be my friend simply because I wouldn't want to be seen with me in public", my fourth thought was "wait… does that mean I'd be an arrogant btch if I were a healthy person? Or do I just have a distorted or partially distorted perception of healthy people?" and my fifth though said "OK, this is not about what some stuck up 'healthier' version of me would think, it's about what I would think… but seeing as I've got totally conflicting views here (see thoughts #1 and #2) how am I supposed to know what I would think of me?" and then (thought #6) it occurred to me that in reality I know several people who have all the same issues that I do and some of them are a lot worse off than I am and when I look at them I feel nothing but compassion and I don't judge them for the way they are at all...

You have just re-enacted exactly what happened in my exercise.  

When looking at other people who have the same issues that you judge yourself so harshly for… how do you feel about them?

If the answer is that in reality you can be non-judgmental with other people who have the same "flaws" then maybe the problem you have with her isn't so much her flaws but with the fact that it's you and you, as opposed to everyone else, are not allowed to be that way…

Perhaps it is some sort of higher expectation I have for myself. I'm also extremely guarded. I don't allow a lot of people into the more private parts of my life (well, except for anonymously on a BPD website for loved ones )

So perhaps it is that I have some sort of high expectation for my friends - which is a newer skill of mine.

Perhaps I'm still in a developmental stage.

Shedding that small part of me that martyrs herself. It's heightened my spidey senses when it comes to needy souls - which is how I sometimes see myself.  

I'm also really tired of feeling sorry for myself.  

I do love when you say ... .  does that mean I'd be an arrogant btch if I were a healthy person?

It's my trying to covertly battle this self flagellation rather then "knocking it off" - because I don't know that I necessarily can.

It's kinda like soccer for me, I don't particularily care for it.  I'm American... .  I like baseball.  

But if I lived in Italy and it was part of a culture that I could not get away from, I might learn ways to appreciate it (watching Beckham sure might help).

Me? I can't get away from me.

It's becoming ways to manage it and strengthen those smaller parts that do have compassion, that do think that I have qualities that make me worthy and deserving.

Holy canoly is it hard doing that though.    

[DreamGirl]

Do you think most people are more critical of themselves than others? 

Are you trying to insenuate that I am not unique in my thoughts? 

[heartandwhole]

The first thing I thought after I finished reading your post about you was "But I like her!" (Dreamgirl).  I was struck by the authenticity, vulnerability and taking responsibility in your writing.  I felt admiration and compassion for you and the work you are doing.

So, from what I've written above, you can guess the qualities that I like (or would like to have) in myself.    Do I like myself?  That's a tough one.  I know my inner self, so yes, I like her.  But if I met myself from the outside, I'm not so sure.  She is guarded, too, so I probably wouldn't think she was looking for new friends!  If I were a friend with some advice for her, I think I would encourage her to show her vulnerability, to be a bit less of a loner and to let down her guard a little toward others.  In fact, my friends and family have actually said versions of this to me.  I'd like to, but I don't know how to do it... .  yet. 

So this makes sense to me. I feel like I've grown but I have not changed. Maybe it is a core part of me that I should practice not fighting so valiantly against. 

I think this is a wise statement.  I think we often want to fix it / heal it / get rid of it, instead of accepting that we all have an "original wound" of sorts and it is part of being human.  I suspect that when we accept this, and stop denying and hiding it from others and ourselves, we live more authentically and have a greater capacity for enjoying all the "good" stuff, too. 

Really great work, Dreamgirl, thanks for posting.  It really made me reflect. 

heartandwhole

[justnothing]

I took a training class for my [former] volunteer work (children's advocacy for families of domestic violence/abuse/neglect) - it was facilitated by a pyschologist that treats both abusers and victims in domestic violence situations. He stated at the very begininng of the class that "it is nearly impossible for someone to change their belief system." I think it was to help us let go of hope.  

Well if we're talking about giving treatment to abusers and victims, it's probably wiser to encourage volunteers to give up hope… but that's when talking about helping other people… when it comes to helping one's self, one doesn't necessarily ever have to give up hope, even if it's a battle against core beliefs. I wasn't suggesting that you give up on the idea of changing the parts of you that you don't like, just that you learn to be more accepting of yourself despite them… they say that self acceptance and change [ironically] tend to go together and even that the latter can't come without the former.

I'm also really tired of feeling sorry for myself.

Well the thing I find interesting about that statement is that earlier you mentioned that finding out that you had compassion for yourself came as a surprise for you… If you had to make a list, or something like that, what would you say is the difference between feeling sorry for yourself and feeling compassion for yourself?

Me? I can't get away from me.

It's becoming ways to manage it and strengthen those smaller parts that do have compassion, that do think that I have qualities that make me worthy and deserving.

Holy canoly is it hard doing that though.      

Yeah… but unfortunately that's probably the only way… :-/

[ambi]

Do you think most people are more critical of themselves than others? 

Are you trying to insenuate that I am not unique in my thoughts? 

Nope.   LOL 

[DreamGirl]

The first thing I thought after I finished reading your post about you was "But I like her!" (Dreamgirl).  I was struck by the authenticity, vulnerability and taking responsibility in your writing.  I felt admiration and compassion for you and the work you are doing.

Thank you!

Honestly? I felt a little foolish at first. I posted this and it didn't have any responses for a couple days. I thought "alrighty then". So I really, really appreciate the feedback.

If I were a friend with some advice for her, I think I would encourage her to show her vulnerability, to be a bit less of a loner and to let down her guard a little toward others.  In fact, my friends and family have actually said versions of this to me.  I'd like to, but I don't know how to do it... .  yet.

It is difficult to do - especially when you've not for so long. I'm trying not to be such a pessimist - thinking that all people, at some point, will let you down. My mind knows that not to be true - but my emotional memory lends me to have that (twisted) thinking. It's hard to balance that. I also am aware enough to see this trait on the "victim" end of the Victim to Survivor to Thriver chart.

I also do think that transforming that all starts with me.     

I think we often want to fix it / heal it / get rid of it, instead of accepting that we all have an "original wound" of sorts and it is part of being human.  I suspect that when we accept this, and stop denying and hiding it from others and ourselves, we live more authentically and have a greater capacity for enjoying all the "good" stuff, too. 

Gosh this makes sense. 

Perhaps this is the next step for me. Now that it's been so apparently identified. 

[DreamGirl]

justnothing, first off, thank you so much for your posts. 

You guys are really helping me here.

I wasn't suggesting that you give up on the idea of changing the parts of you that you don't like, just that you learn to be more accepting of yourself despite them… they say that self acceptance and change [ironically] tend to go together and even that the latter can't come without the former.

I haven't given up hope. I won't ever I don't think. That probably wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. 

I agree that it's more about giving up the aggressive stance I seem to take against myself so often.

So it makes sense when you say that acceptance is what effects change. It's such a simple concept one would think. It's the application that has me running around in quadrants trying to dissect why I act they way I do. 

Well the thing I find interesting about that statement is that earlier you mentioned that finding out that you had compassion for yourself came as a surprise for you… If you had to make a list, or something like that, what would you say is the difference between feeling sorry for yourself and feeling compassion for yourself?

I think it goes back to what we were saying just now:

Feeling sorry for myself = thinking "that poor thing over there" as if somehow she should have it "better"

Feeling compassion = thinking "that must have been hard" and it's OK that she's having a hard time

Yeah… but unfortunately that's probably the only way… :-/

Amen to that.