Back and Forth

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello Friends,

I'm struggling with the behavior of my uBPDex after she decided to move on last July.  Since that time, she has alternated between contacting me via text message, phone calls, and emails, and telling me that she doesn't want to be contacted.  One example occurred this past December.  She called me out of the blue and we talked for a half hour.  During the call, she was surprisingly open with her feelings, telling me how much she missed me and thought about me.  I asked her if she would consider taking me back, but she said she couldn't.  When I asked why, she was evasive and wouldn't give me an answer.  She admitted that she had a new bf, but when I asked her if she was happy, she clearly was not despite not telling me.  A couple of days later, I dropped off some flowers with the concierge in her condo with a simple note telling her that I knew she was dealing with a lot and that I just wanted her to know that I cared.  She sent me a text shortly thereafter telling me not to drop anything off, text her, or answer her phone calls.

At that point I thought I had gotten my answer that there was no future with her.  However, since then she has sent texts, called numerous times, and sent emails asking for my help.  After her first contact since that text, I decided to go NC, as she clearly was jerking me back and forth.  One day recently she called me 8 times in one day, followed by three text messages - the last one saying that she had had two days of bad dreams about me and was worried about me.  Yesterday she called 4 times and sent a text message asking her to call her.  Today, I got a text telling me that she missed me.

This back and forth behavior is like someone taking a knife and re-opening the same wound every time it starts to heal.  My biggest mistake tonight was responding to her text by telling her that I missed her more than I could describe.  As you might expect - no response from her!  I had maintained NC since mid-December until tonight and feel like an idiot for responding.  She has never been as nasty as some exes have been described on this board.  To the contrary, she contacts me when she needs me for something or when she happens to miss me momentarily.  She has had a bf for 4 months, but I'm convinced that she's still with him only because she's too afraid of being alone.

I'm struggling with trying to make sense of all of this.  Why would she tell me that she doesn't want to get back together, but continues to contact me so often?  Why does she tell me not to contact her but contacts me so often?  Is there any reason I should deviate from NC from now own?  My own perception is that any time I return her contact, I regret it.  If she isn't interested in even considering getting back together, then what's the point?  I understand how the disorder is at play in her behavior, but I still struggle with why she won't get the message when I don't respond (until tonight).

I'd appreciate your perspectives of what is happening and what I should do going forward.  Is there any reason I should return her future contacts?

Thank you friends!

[Confusedandhurt]

Hello Friends,

I'm struggling with the behavior of my uBPDex after she decided to move on last July.  Since that time, she has alternated between contacting me via text message, phone calls, and emails, and telling me that she doesn't want to be contacted.  One example occurred this past December.  She called me out of the blue and we talked for a half hour.  During the call, she was surprisingly open with her feelings, telling me how much she missed me and thought about me.  I asked her if she would consider taking me back, but she said she couldn't.  When I asked why, she was evasive and wouldn't give me an answer.  She admitted that she had a new bf, but when I asked her if she was happy, she clearly was not despite not telling me.  A couple of days later, I dropped off some flowers with the concierge in her condo with a simple note telling her that I knew she was dealing with a lot and that I just wanted her to know that I cared.  She sent me a text shortly thereafter telling me not to drop anything off, text her, or answer her phone calls.

At that point I thought I had gotten my answer that there was no future with her.  However, since then she has sent texts, called numerous times, and sent emails asking for my help.  After her first contact since that text, I decided to go NC, as she clearly was jerking me back and forth.  One day recently she called me 8 times in one day, followed by three text messages - the last one saying that she had had two days of bad dreams about me and was worried about me.  Yesterday she called 4 times and sent a text message asking her to call her.  Today, I got a text telling me that she missed me.

This back and forth behavior is like someone taking a knife and re-opening the same wound every time it starts to heal.  My biggest mistake tonight was responding to her text by telling her that I missed her more than I could describe.  As you might expect - no response from her!  I had maintained NC since mid-December until tonight and feel like an idiot for responding.  She has never been as nasty as some exes have been described on this board.  To the contrary, she contacts me when she needs me for something or when she happens to miss me momentarily.  She has had a bf for 4 months, but I'm convinced that she's still with him only because she's too afraid of being alone.

I'm struggling with trying to make sense of all of this.  Why would she tell me that she doesn't want to get back together, but continues to contact me so often?  Why does she tell me not to contact her but contacts me so often?  Is there any reason I should deviate from NC from now own?  My own perception is that any time I return her contact, I regret it.  If she isn't interested in even considering getting back together, then what's the point?  I understand how the disorder is at play in her behavior, but I still struggle with why she won't get the message when I don't respond (until tonight).

I'd appreciate your perspectives of what is happening and what I should do going forward.  Is there any reason I should return her future contacts?

Thank you friends!

[Rose Tiger]

Poor impluse control.  She feels anxiety and reaches out to soothe herself.  By the time you respond, she is usually over it and no longer needs the contact.  It's not that she misses you, she misses someone to reach out to in a moment of panic.  It can drive a person batty.  If you can block all communication from her, it will help you to stay on solid ground.

These are very helpful articles to get through this tough time:

Leaving a Partner with Borderline Personality Disorder

Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder [NEW]

[Confusedandhurt]

Hi Rose Tiger,

Thanks very much for the feedback.  What's interesting in my case is that I believe it's a mixture of panic (I used to be her mentor at work, so I know some of the contacts are related to her job) and reminiscence.  She's admitted in other contacts that certain things she had done or was doing reminded her of us.

It's so very hard to deal with weekly, or more often, contacts from her, when she doesn't have any interest in getting back together.  I can't block her calls, because my cell phone belongs to my company.  So my options are either return to firm NC or send her a terse email asking her to stop contacting me.

Any suggestions?

Thanks again!

[Rose Tiger]

If it is throwing you for a loop, go NC and it will dribble down.  I don't suggest telling her to do anything, that can backfire.  What I do with my ex is I will give short emotionless responses, but the occasional email/text isn't upsetting to me so light contact works for me.

[GreenMango]

It looks like her contact with you is being held under the radar as to not jeopardize her current situation with whomever she is with now.  When you brought it to the light by showing up in person she reacted strange yet went back to the emotional texts and contact that is easily kept secret.

Auae reading the article on Karpman Triangle/conflict dynamics may help you a bit here on how to approach this if you have to have contact for work

https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

If her contact with you is about work she can contact you through appropriate work channels can't she?

[GlennT]

You must remember that a big chunk of their personality and character  has been lost due to trauma, or extreme entitlement, and they really do a poor job of trying to replace it. Going back and forth is the only way they know how to cope until finding a more unifying and positive placement of their stable and genuine personality. Finding it takes years of sticking with a good therapist, self-analysis, and behavior modification  therapy.

[Confusedandhurt]

GreenMango and GlennT,

Thank you for the reply!  I'm really struggling with the frequent contact from her, as I just want to heal and need the space and time to do that.  I'm sure you both can relate, since so much of this board is about just that.  You're right GreenMango - when I showed up with flowers and a simple card, she reacted harshly via text, telling me to not contact her again.  Since then, the contacts have been more and more frequent for the reasons I talked about earlier.  Panic about her job and reminders of we did when we were together.  She has indeed contacted me at work about her job situation, but I no longer have any interest in helping her after the way she treated me when we were together and afterwards.

GlennT - I agree that her disorder is definitely at play.  Her push/pull behavior is clearly evident from my perspective.  I'm relatively new to BPD, but am learning as fast as I can.  Even as I am learning about the disorder, I still can't wrap my head around why she has contacted me so many times if she has a bf.  When we were together, I filled a huge void for her, which I now know was toxic.  I was always there for her and poured my entire life into making her happy.  She has said as much since she left, but does not want to get back together.  I can live with that, but was is so incredibly painful is the perception that she won't let go.  It's indeed sad - she doesn't recognize the disorder she has, so won't get into therapy.  She's with a guy she doesn't truly love, likely because she doesn't want to feel abandoned.  And, she won't stop contacting me, despite telling me many times that she doesn't want contact and needs to move on.

Based on the help you great friends are giving me, I guess the only real path forward is rigid NC.  I can only hope that if I maintain NC for long enough, she'll get the message!

[nonhere]

A couple of days later, I dropped off some flowers with the concierge in her condo with a simple note telling her that I knew she was dealing with a lot and that I just wanted her to know that I cared.  She sent me a text shortly thereafter telling me not to drop anything off, text her, or answer her phone calls.

... .  

... .  followed by three text messages - the last one saying that she had had two days of bad dreams about me and was worried about me.

This back and forth behavior is like someone taking a knife and re-opening the same wound every time it starts to heal.

... .  

I'm struggling with trying to make sense of all of this.  Why would she tell me that she doesn't want to get back together, but continues to contact me so often?... .  

My own perception is that any time I return her contact, I regret it.  If she isn't interested in even considering getting back together, then what's the point?  I understand how the disorder is at play in her behavior, but I still struggle with why she won't get the message when I don't respond (until tonight).

Sorry you're having to deal with this.  It is extremely difficult.

I've selected out parts of what you wrote; the parts that really emphasise what came to my mind as I read your post.  This is:

There is something she does; and then there is how it affects you - your reaction to it.  You are struggling to make some kind of sense out of what she's doing.  The trouble is, the materials you're working with are your reactions: not her real intentions.  And your reactions (which are all that you have to work with) are not ever going to enable you to build a structure that makes sense, however hard you try.

Why is this?  It's not because your reactions are wrong or inappropriate.  It's because - this is the truly mind-boggling thing about a pwBPD - her contacts to you are not intended to elicit that reaction in you.  She does not want to know when you react as you do.  When you react, she runs away or goes silent.  Her overtures to you are not aimed at the actual person you are with the natural reactions you have.  In a sense, her messages are a monologue.  (Perhaps the very best, most experienced, well-trained therapists are capable of being the infinitely-flexible counterparty to such a monologue - but I'm certainly not!)

But you are reacting normally.  In a normal interaction between people, I think there's a mutual map built, where no one person does anything without predicting/perceiving/feeling the probably/possible/actual reactions of the other person.  We human beings have an insanely well-developed faculty to do this.  We can even try our best to do it without face-to-face contact (e.g. online).  And when we get it wrong we have techniques (listening, asking, being open) to try to put it right.  You're struggling to build this map of what on earth is going on between you and her - but you're doing it solo, when it's something that can't be built by one person.  She is not participating.  If you continue to try to make some sense out this interaction on your own, you will drive yourself nuts.

Wouldn't it be great if you could get some clarification, and react to and deal with the "real her" - the one who actually CAN participate in this mutual sense-making?  I held out for months/years for this "real her".  She does not exist.  Or if she does exist, she is and always will be beyond my reach.  The "real person" in a pwBPD, which we nons long to talk to, is so impossible to reach that they might as well not exist, for practical purposes.

And so the tough thing is that you have to start reacting "abnormally".  Be abnormally reticent (when you care about this person).  Be abnormally abrupt.  Be abnormally uncommunicative.  You have to be abnormal because you're dealing with something deeply abnormal.

I'm sorry you have this (past?) professional relationship that makes it hard to block all her calls.  I think NC is the way.  I got proof of how weird this BPD thing is by the struggle I had to keep NC going!  Every effort I made to explain why I no longer wished any contact with her (calmly, matter-of-factly, and kindly) met with silence - and then, a few months later, with another attempt at contact from her!  Even in that, her map and mine are totally out of sync.

Good luck!

[GreenMango]

Since then, the contacts have been more and more frequent for the reasons I talked about earlier.  Panic about her job and reminders of we did when we were together.  She has indeed contacted me at work about her job situation, but I no longer have any interest in helping her after the way she treated me when we were together and afterwards.

Unfortunately... .  well actually fortunately this contact from her isn't work related either.  This is emotional need. 

Work would be "What is the schedule for this project?", "We need to make an appointment with this person", etc.

It's okay to not want to help her anymore.  It getting murky when we switch back and forth intermittently reinforcing their bad behavior or the contradictions.  We set ourselves up when we do this ensuring that the person thinks we will solve or help fix this for them.

Take care of you first Auae, you are important too.

[Confusedandhurt]

Nonhere - Your points are very well taken!  I've seen pwBPD often referred to as the emotional equivalent of a 5 year old. What you discuss sounds very similar to this. Her desire for an occasional monologue sure resonates!  I often ask why she cannot see the damage this causes to the person receiving her contact. But - when we were together, the relationship was always about her. She had no empathy at all and could never be vulnerable or emotionally intimate.  I will be re-reading your post often, especially when she contacts me again. I agree - I'm trying to understand the behavior of someone who doesn't want to participate!

Greenmango - I'll heed your advice. I think the only way I can take care of myself is to maintain strict NC. Any texts or emails need to be immediately deleted.

You folks on this board totally rock!  I'm a very grateful non.

[Elsegundo]

I've selected out parts of what you wrote; the parts that really emphasise what came to my mind as I read your post.  This is:

There is something she does; and then there is how it affects you - your reaction to it.  You are struggling to make some kind of sense out of what she's doing.  The trouble is, the materials you're working with are your reactions: not her real intentions.  And your reactions (which are all that you have to work with) are not ever going to enable you to build a structure that makes sense, however hard you try.

Why is this?  It's not because your reactions are wrong or inappropriate.  It's because - this is the truly mind-boggling thing about a pwBPD - her contacts to you are not intended to elicit that reaction in you.  She does not want to know when you react as you do.  When you react, she runs away or goes silent.  Her overtures to you are not aimed at the actual person you are with the natural reactions you have.  In a sense, her messages are a monologue.  (Perhaps the very best, most experienced, well-trained therapists are capable of being the infinitely-flexible counterparty to such a monologue - but I'm certainly not!)

But you are reacting normally.  In a normal interaction between people, I think there's a mutual map built, where no one person does anything without predicting/perceiving/feeling the probably/possible/actual reactions of the other person.  We human beings have an insanely well-developed faculty to do this.  We can even try our best to do it without face-to-face contact (e.g. online).  And when we get it wrong we have techniques (listening, asking, being open) to try to put it right.  You're struggling to build this map of what on earth is going on between you and her - but you're doing it solo, when it's something that can't be built by one person.  She is not participating.  If you continue to try to make some sense out this interaction on your own, you will drive yourself nuts.

Ohmigosh!  I think this should become part of a new lesson for members since it seems so prevalent an issue and need to hear.  I've never heard such a clear description of normal reaction, making sense of things, and reacting to a different intention from that of the message sender.  Nicely written!

[Elsegundo]

Sorry--tried to quote.  Didn't work.