Sigh Ruminations, Sigh Nightmares, Sigh no More Friends

[stoic83]

Oh man oh man... .  nothing could have ever compared me for this.

The vivid nightmares everynight the constant ruminations, self-doubt, trying to piece it together... .  6th time on the merry-go-round in 4 years and this is my last stop.

Somehow I had forgotten what a borderline psychotic rage looked like... .  she held it together for so long... .  through her dad's funeral... .  

I cant believe the things that came out of my mouth. Programming from home. I lived with her for the first time... .  it lasted 7 or 8 weeks until she relapsed on alcohol and left after she got a new puppy 2 weeks earlier and left it with me while she went to medical detox.

Now... .  I am alone with my neurotic business partner, the NPD mba i found to manage sales and myself.

I still have friends out there... .  but they probably just pity me at this point. All the justification i provided.

What an ass I am.

The nightmares are tough... .  I go to sleep early just to get it over with.

Since the last breakup where I had full on ptsd symptoms complete with panic attacks. Now i realize that she is completely unstable, only receiving treatment for her alcohol abuse, and there is something very wrong with this entire situation and why I allowed this to continue for so long.

I once considered myself somewhat of a renaissance man... .  math/philosophy dbl major, lived in france, made music, poetry, etc... .  etc... .  sounds pretty N... .  but I just enjoy a lot of things.

The one thing about my BPD ex that i loved is that it seemed like she loved me for me... .  not for all the external bull~. Man was I wrong. It wouldnt have mattered if I was some beach bum... .  as long as I was there to give her some narcissitic supply and constantly provide her with motherly reassurance she would give me some affection... .  id say the relationship was pretty even (90/10).

Honestly the pedestal phases got shorter and shorter with each boundary violation and distortion campaign and ~ and stalking behavior... .  hell neither of us respected me at all by the end of it.

How can I ever attract healthy people in to my life again? I am so scarred... .  ugh.

[wowjer]

The dreams are a bitxx aren't they? Mine seem so real. Funny I never remember any of my other dreams except for the ones where I am recycling... .  again.

The lack of friends, I hear ya. I have two in my area and they are both much older than me. I was once a traveler and I assume that has assisted in my preparations for this. I was alone with myself throughout my travels and now I am alone through this one.

You knew who you were during your own travels and you will find yourself again. Your happiness lies within. Enjoy the growth and the ever growing calm you will obtain as the time moves forward.

I have 2 kids with my ex and see her waaaayyyyy to often. However, I reflect how I was months ago versus today and thanks to a lot of people on this site, as well others, I feel I am in arms length of some calm and comfort. You will get there.

[wowjer]

Your last question was "how can I attract some healthy people?"

I don't even know how to set the bar that high to say "healthy". I will take somebody with some impulse control, empathy, and some basic values, and I would be in heaven.

[ultramarine]

All very very familiar!

You are not alone. During the four years of our courtship & marriage he 'grabbed' almost all of my friends and those who he couldn't grab, he made sure he abolished them from my life.

We've been separated one year. So far I have got two nightmares where he was chasing me up a hill in order to kill me. But when I wake up, I feel grateful it's only a nightmare and that in real life I am free!

In a BPD relationship one gets so exhausted that even the recovery period is significant. Give yourself the time to brood, to feel sorry. Sometimes sympathy from close friends helps you heal. But once you are through that phase, just look forward. It's a new life! A new beginning! At least you learned a lesson and saved yourself at the right time! 

Breathe easy, do a yoga / meditation course if possible. Reiki healing helped me to cleanse my system of the dirt. The past can never leave you, you can only embrace the wisdom that came with it and prepare yourself for a new life ahead. And just because it happened once, doesn't mean it will happen again! Read some inspiring books about letting go, about your purpose in life, etc. If possible, try to take up a new activity and make a new set of friends. Give a break to old friends, you can reconnect with them later, on a fresh note 

Try to keep a diary where you can pen down your thoughts feelings and dreams As you said you are already into music and poetry I am sure you will find a way to heal yourself soon.

Working on yourself and rediscovering and rewriting your dreams is an enjoyable process. Only few people get a second chance at life! Go for it! 

[Rose Tiger]

These relationships do have a way of stripping away every bit of self respect you once had.  When a person works on you and you try so hard to please them, to regain that idealized phase, you realize one day that they have stripped you down so far, you've become as empty a shell as they are inside.  It comes back little by little and each gain you make in rebuilding, you think I am never letting another person take this away again, if someone doesn't like this about me, tough!  You are done with the bs aspects, it's the things that you really love that come back.  It feels empty for awhile and then a spark, of something you used to like to do comes to mind.  And then more and more.  You start appreciating authentic people.  Trustworthy people.  You'll be drawn to them.  That's later.  Right now it's rebuilding your health, eat right, sleep, push yourself to exercise.  Right now is the grieving process and it's rough but it does not last forever.   

[Elsegundo]

In no way through it, but I can say that the nightmare phase for me JUST ended.  And while I just had one really bad day yesterday, it was just a day, and my anxiety has lessened again below what it was when with her.  I find these moments hanging out w others: while perhaps not as intoxicating, more anymore their stability and ability to make easy things easy is increasingly attractive.  After a million reassurances that whilei have issues I'm not crazy, I feel better w each day (minus a few). You can do it.  choose you.  You are worth saving too.

[Wooddragon]

My dreams have been extraordinarily vivid & emotionally draining - they are actually getting worse the further that I disengage from him (but I am still in contact & I'm not sure if the dreams are part of the acceptance & healing process or if I am making things worse by trying to "normalise" our "friendship"(?)).  As far as meeting anyone else, I have zero confidence in my capacity to even recognise a good relationship. And everything I thought I was as a woman has been torn down & thrown back at me in shreds so that part of me feels like it is gone. 

In no way through it, but I can say that the nightmare phase for me JUST ended.  And while I just had one really bad day yesterday, it was just a day, and my anxiety has lessened again below what it was when with her.  I find these moments hanging out w others: while perhaps not as intoxicating, more anymore their stability and ability to make easy things easy is increasingly attractive.  After a million reassurances that whilei have issues I'm not crazy, I feel better w each day (minus a few). You can do it.  choose you.  You are worth saving too.

I keep very very busy with stuff that I enjoy immensely but I am - in my own mind - very much damaged goods.  I find also that I seem to only be even remotely attracted to men who are unavailable (significantly younger, married etc) and since I'm not such a masochist that going there would be an option, I suppose I feel "safe" that I'm not going to be tempted to put myself on the line by having anything go further.

It is the most confronting experience I have ever gone through but some days I feel optimism about the future and those are becoming more frequent... .  

[stoic83]

Your last question was "how can I attract some healthy people?"

I don't even know how to set the bar that high to say "healthy". I will take somebody with some impulse control, empathy, and some basic values, and I would be in heaven.

hahah this is spot on. My friend told me he was worried about me "settling" after this relationship. He said any normal girl is going to look like frigging mother Theresa right now. Ive been such an ass to this friend because of this experience. Man am I lucky that there are people stronger than I am right now to lean on a bit... Thanks a lot for relating to me. Im sorry for your struggles as well:)

Maybe we are just weak and leaning amongst eachother.

[stoic83]

My dreams have been extraordinarily vivid & emotionally draining - they are actually getting worse the further that I disengage from him (but I am still in contact & I'm not sure if the dreams are part of the acceptance & healing process or if I am making things worse by trying to "normalise" our "friendship"(?)).  As far as meeting anyone else, I have zero confidence in my capacity to even recognise a good relationship. And everything I thought I was as a woman has been torn down & thrown back at me in shreds so that part of me feels like it is gone. 

In no way through it, but I can say that the nightmare phase for me JUST ended.  And while I just had one really bad day yesterday, it was just a day, and my anxiety has lessened again below what it was when with her.  I find these moments hanging out w others: while perhaps not as intoxicating, more anymore their stability and ability to make easy things easy is increasingly attractive.  After a million reassurances that whilei have issues I'm not crazy, I feel better w each day (minus a few). You can do it.  choose you.  You are worth saving too.

I keep very very busy with stuff that I enjoy immensely but I am - in my own mind - very much damaged goods.  I find also that I seem to only be even remotely attracted to men who are unavailable (significantly younger, married etc) and since I'm not such a masochist that going there would be an option, I suppose I feel "safe" that I'm not going to be tempted to put myself on the line by having anything go further.

It is the most confronting experience I have ever gone through but some days I feel optimism about the future and those are becoming more frequent... .  

This is so sad to me. Im sorry you feel like that. I promise that you aren't damaged goods. I think you have the right attitude about things... .  but maybe exploring why you are attracted to younger men. Is it because that way you know you will have the upper hand. I was with a 34 year old when I was 23 and it might be the healthiest relationship i had. Maybe she thought she was damaged goods... .  but to me she was experienced and tough. No pain no gain.

Its funny because even though im not looking i find myself attracted to older women right now... .  not because Im looking but because I would rather be with a woman who has been dropped on her head a few times because then when she finds true love she wont ever treat him badly again... .  well that type of thinking is what got me in to this. Doh!

Well i feel like damaged goods too.  Like I was castrated. Like my tail is between my legs... .  in the words of my ex who didnt realize that i was alluding to the fact that she did this to me " I dont want to be with a man like that, a man who has his tail between his legs." Like I was a frigging stranger. So messed up. Two weeks earlier I was the love of her life and supporting her through her dads death. I knew i was in for a whammer... .  but nothing prepared me for what ensued. Im like 19 days NC right now, holding strong.

[Wooddragon]

Thanks stoic - I appreciate your kind words & they do help. It's funny that those of us on here have had some remarkably similar experiences. My ex told me that "I don't want to be with someone who isn't confident in themselves".  The fact that he had spent the last 12 months comparing me unfavourably in so many ways to his ex from years back (she has a yoga studio - you get the picture) & devalued me continuously as the relationship wore on didn't enter the conversation!

Anyway the younger guy thing - most of my previous relationships have been with younger men (before this one). I work closely in teams do

[Wooddragon]

Stoopid eye phone! Didn't mean to hit post above & not sure how to edit

Anyway - work in teams doing legal work - usually have good connections with the younger guys - much easier to deal with professionally & they can be friends out of work without there being any dramas. Not sure if it's a "gen y" thing but they seem to be much less complicated than the ones my age or older (apologies for the sweeping generalisation but that's just my perception). Since the most uncivilised break up I have ever had has been with someone older than me I suppose I am feeling a bit prejudiced and cynical. 

Also - with hindsight - he was very set in his ways and frankly pretty boring at times (hmmm - wish I had paid more attention to THAT issue at the time!)

[stoic83]

Stoopid eye phone! Didn't mean to hit post above & not sure how to edit

Anyway - work in teams doing legal work - usually have good connections with the younger guys - much easier to deal with professionally & they can be friends out of work without there being any dramas. Not sure if it's a "gen y" thing but they seem to be much less complicated than the ones my age or older (apologies for the sweeping generalisation but that's just my perception). Since the most uncivilised break up I have ever had has been with someone older than me I suppose I am feeling a bit prejudiced and cynical. 

Also - with hindsight - he was very set in his ways and frankly pretty boring at times (hmmm - wish I had paid more attention to THAT issue at the time!)

Unfortunately for us, I don't think anybody except for somebody complicated is going to understand this... .  looking back I wish that the person i was in the relationship with was more complicated, and then perhaps the relationship would be less complicated.

My mentality about friendships and relationships going forward is to never let a relationship get more complicated than life itself. Maybe these older men are more mature and you are looking for someone closer to your emotional age (which has probably digressed in this relationship as mine most certainly has).

I am fearful of women my own age or a bit younger... .  I guess i have always felt more comfortable being older or younger in a relationship. I will say that the older woman i was with referred to me as a "purse or fashion accessory" for her real estate function... .  one week later i moved out in the middle of the night.

Stay focused on not objectifying yourself or others... .  it is hard after a relationship with someone who clearly is not equipped with natural human empathy... .  I have always resented being objectified... .  by being with a younger dude, it seems almost certain that the relationship is based on friendship and their respect for you as an older but very cool woman.

it seems like women my age in general are looking for financial security in a tough economy... .  sigh how nice it is to be with an older woman who has her ~ together. Im trying to start a business and the "feminist movement" which was supposed to be about equality now has women demanding to be pampered and then they go spend their money on themselves... .  its just not right.

I cant blame women in today's society.All of the social networking, media, and press... .  distorts reality. Women are fed this princess bull~ since they are little.

In california, A mother of two with a job that pays 20k a year takes home more money than a mother of two with a job that pays 80k a year just due to tax benefits and government programs. Im sure my ex, who just inherited a large sum, will quickly blow through that and be back leeching off the government (or some other chump like me) under the guise of aa and addiction disability blah blah... shes never been honest.

[Rose Tiger]

Man, I really missed the boat.  I am self supporting, put myself through college and have never asked the gov't for help.  I'm sure I'm not the only one.    There are also lots of causes that I support.  I'm sure there are plenty of me's out there.   

[Elsegundo]

It's hard for me to read mysogonistic blame in a space meant to offer support.  I don't like it.

On an intellectual level, I also don't like the misquoting of feminist theory. You should read it before incorrectly critiquing it. 

Regardless, I'm sorry you're going through this hurt.  I understand its making you afraid of women.  I hope you get to a place where your heart can remember that every woman is not your ex.  Sending you healing.

[Wooddragon]

I wonder if a tendancy to paint others black/white is something that some of us can pick up from our disordered relationships. I sometimes joined my ex in having opinions about the behaviour & motivations of others & I'm not proud of that at all.

Even he himself - whilst he did and said some incredibly hurtful & damaging things to me, is not all bad. He is genuine in wanting to help people change their lives (but perhaps for egotistical & selfish reasons). One valuable thing that this experience has shown me is that very few people are all good or all bad.  I choose not to surround myself with people who don't share my values but it has taken me way too long to even begin to realise what my real values are and I'm still on a very steep learning curve.

Blessings to all

[stoic83]

I wonder if a tendancy to paint others black/white is something that some of us can pick up from our disordered relationships. I sometimes joined my ex in having opinions about the behaviour & motivations of others & I'm not proud of that at all.

Yes. I think my mom is a higher functioning BPD. Would make sense why I felt comfortable in the relationship.

My mom was a liberal feminist who wrote for AP and her and my grandmother used to call me a misogynist when I was 5 years old. She would brag about tough she was... .  she also recently told me that she used to have several boyfriends at the same time, none of whom would know of eachother... .  hey it was the seventies.

Maybe my BPD ex was right about me and I really am a chauvinist. I mean after all I expected equal treatment from a woman... .  that sounds pretty chauvinistic.

I dont mean to offend anyone... .  part of venting on here is to get real feedback. I am aware that I am acting out of sorts right now... .  its only been 3 weeks. The abused become abusers... .  I am here because this is a safe place to express my feelings and get feedback from women who dont have BPD.

My t is a woman... .  shell set me straight. I used to love women and have great friendships with them... .  too bad im damaged goods now.

[angel123]

Stoic, I feel your pain. I finally ended a relationship with my ex BPD for the god knows how many times in 2 1/2 years. It's been a week since I saw him, there have been texts  back and forth for a few days and finally I blocked for good. My own mother today almost started crying on the phone because she was so upset seeing me in this state after a recycling rage that involved a drug relapse of course. She just said "I've never seen you put up with a fraction of this behavior from anyone in your life." It just scared me. I don't even like to talk about it anymore to anyone because no one will understand how broken and shattered you really are after being around these individuals for too long.

A BPD is difficult enough to deal with. You add an alcohol or drug addiction and it is pure evil and insanity. Like you, I think it will take a long time for me to feel whole again because I feel like a shell of the person I was before I met my ex. It will not be hard to find something better. I just keep remembering that the longer we are away the more we can begin to feel whole, little by little but NO contact is the only way.

I'm not glad my situation mirrors any of yours because that means we've all been hurt, but glad to know there are others who can relate. When I read your stories, I realize there are so many similarities that I'm not the crazy one.

[angel123]

Sad part is that I started to attack my ex in the end like he did me. I said and did things that I have never said and done in my life. I just finally had it. I started to act like him! I attacked him, told him what a horrible human being he was, I mean looked like a complete psycho. But, I must have to say, it felt kinda good getting it out in the end after 2 1/2 years. The push-pull started again at the end. When he heard my voice and I was actually calm and said I was no longer able to function with him in my life and that he was going to destroy my life if I allowed him to stay in it, he started the pull game. The I'm sorry, this is all  my fault, I know I didn't deserve you, I will do whatever it takes to make it up to you, I don't even see how bad I am, I'm a dark soul, I hide away because I hate myslef, on and on and on. The best part was when he sent a text saying "I'm willing to get help but I will NOT take a mood stabilizer". That came out of nowhere. It's because he's seen a few psych docs and the second they suggest he take a med, he bails and doesn't go back.

My god, the madness. THen as soon as I sent a few texts that he didn't like such as "you didn't seem to be in that much pain when you blocked me and ignored me on Xmas and I did nothing wrong to you" he flipped the switch and ignored me. It's pure insanity. I just told him he needed serious professional help and that I would no longer allow him to destroy my life, that I loved him but he continued to ignore my boundaries of no drugs, no rages and no silent treatments, that I was sorry he was unable to provide those things for me and that I hoped he found happiness and got himself some help. I can only imagine that pissed him off to no end but I don't care anymore. Inside, I'm like you stoic. I'm broken, shattered, hurt and utterly shocked that a human can do the things that my ex did. But at least I walked away getting my opinion out and not caring about whether he raged or wanted to talk to me ever again. I know my life slowly will go back to where it was before allowing this madness into it.

[Rose Tiger]

It will Angel123, the further in the rearview he gets, the better you will feel. 

[stoic83]

When I read your stories, I realize there are so many similarities that I'm not the crazy one.

Thanks angel. Im glad that you understand as well. Im so frustrated that I have not been acting like myself lately and therefore nobody understands fully.

Its getting to the point where I am just looking forward to acting right again. I have split my parents black, but they have also betrayed me many times... .  to the point where that relationship was very fragile as well.

What scares me is how empathetic my mom was to the nBPDex... .  my mom like totally understood what the girl was doing to me this entire time... .  it gets to the point where Im like... .  my mom is the only person who truly understood. In the end it was like they were fighting over me for narcissistic supply or abandonment fears in handling the death of a parent. My mom has told me every woman ive been with is disgusting... .  and just gets weirdly jealous and nasty about it. Thats messed up. She was so ashamed when i went with a beautiful black woman to home coming in high school, maybe i was with the bad girl to piss off the woman im eternally angry with.

Both want the money that I havent made... .  maybe thats what they were fighting over. My aunt and uncle (ucla psychs) recently commented on how wrong it was that my parents and sister told them i should be supporting them financially... .  I am 29 years old.

My sister tried killing herself as a teenager, my mom used to bang her head against the wall... .  but somehow im the only one in my family whose "~ed up." My first T, an older man, told me they are the ones who are "~ed up" and to stay the hell away.

Needless to say I havent stayed away from either. Its like i crave the love or just accept the abuse... .  either way i am painted black by all... since my mom is in control of dad and sister... i have to keep from painting myself black right now[in flea mode]. Thanks for the validation and sharing.

It did feel good to get my emotions out at the end. I said truly ridiculous things like : " I am better looking than you are". or "go suck some guy's dick!" just truly ridiculous things... .  I bet other men have said much much worse and done much worse, . Look at how sick we are for feeling guilty for saying these things after all the ~ they put us through. Im sure im a saint to some of the criminals shes been with (who knows maybe they were all nice guys that she just demonized).

Angel, let's make a pact to just laugh and take it easy on ourselves. 10 years down the road we will look back and laugh at what nutters we were and how we alienated everyone in our life.

I am looking at this opportunity to make new friends and meet healthy women who appreciate a caring self-sacrificing person and who will give the same in return... .  I dont want to overreact out of selfishness. I am so worried Im going to act like a creep and get rejected. I think my ex was trying to fatten me up too? Giving me huge portions... .  seriously it was weird.

I bet you will probably be a lot better with men after this experience... .  I mean think about how easy it would be to have a relationship with a sane man once you are healthy again. No relationship will ever be this hard. Relationships arent supposed to be hard... .  i think people just say that about bad relationships to stay in them etc... .  I think truly good relationships are pretty rare... .  am I off on that one?

Anyways, I cant settle anymore... .  i disagree with others about being happy being alone forever. Thats not me. I am going to want some loving, caring, sensitive energy (and to experience sex the way its supposed to be experienced) from a woman sometime in the near future... .  Im  not gonna sit around crying about her while shes out doing who knows what. how Im going to find and attract such a mythical creature at this point is beyond me. Ive got some definite  right now... .  and so i gotta find balance through therapy, introspection, and changing my attitude about life and meeting people. Im gonna work out alot so im feeling confident about my looks. I feel disgusting right now. Though im sure my perceptions are skewed due to the fact that women seem pretty friendly to me.

Ive always been more "exclusive" and i think i was more "inclusive" and "open" with better boundaries and more faith in myself then I will be happier than ever. We have deprived ourselves of emotional freedom for too long... .  if we can hang tough with NC than Im sure that freedom will taste so sweet.

I am just looking at it as long as I live during the next 4 years... .  they are going to be extra amazing, because the 4 years with her (off and on) were such a nightmare. Its like kissing land after being at sea for years.

I feel like the guy on castaway talking to  a volley ball right now... .  think about how weird it is to re assimilate in to civilization after stranded on an island for years. Its definitely going to take time... .  i used to be a lot of fun, but now Im socially awkward and lost my "swagger". I act like a friggin grandpa these days. Im 29 years old. I gripe at my friends for hitting on women that are too young, shun partying, etc... .  etc... .  I really changed my lifestyle to suit this evil btch.

This breakup isn't as tough as the last one... .  thats how i know this is the last one. The relationship cycle peaked for me and now it's over. I dont have any more time to waste. Im turning 30 in march, have a business to get off the ground and have turned down a lot of opportunities with better women (i say better, because anything wouldve been better than my ex!)... .  while she probably had cheated on me... .  but i will never know because im gullible and shes a compulsive or pathological liar. im sure there will be many more hard spots... .  the thing is i know i have to build a support network this time and i am willing to do this by any means neccesary ("meetups", "volunteering", "this board"... .  )

Im starting to think online dating is very bad for people like us... .  too hard to sense red flags over the net.

Im going to start writing a lot more on the net in general. It just feels good to connect with people. I would write pages of emails to her and she would respond with a text message. In the beginning i had such strong boundaries with her... .  i think thats why she respected me... .  and in the end she tore them all down, and all my friends think Im crazy. Its totally awesome.

Man what i wouldnt give for a woman to write a half a page email to me at this point. My family was the same way... .  even my mom the "famous writer" hahah.

When I met her in 2009, I just had won employee of the month at a well known clothing company and was on a huge up-swing personally (after being dumped by my family after college, they took my student loans after dad lost all money, he was a millionaire stock broker)... .  so basically i had the silver spoon ripped from my mouth, was homeless and under employed for years.

I realize that when i stay away from people like my family and this woman I am better off. I have had a lot of sadistic friends in my life. I have always had a low self esteem but got a lot of attention for my talents... .  and based all my self-esteem on things outside of my core self. My parents only cared about how smart I was. My sister only cares about fame and money (she was on a bravo tv show).

When i met the BPD i thought she loved me for who i was and not what i was. This is what kept me hooked. She didnt even realize I was abnormally smart or that I made good music or anything that other people seemed to value about me. I thought it was for who i was... .  but in reality i realize that she is like a child and that i just cared more than most people would have. Most of me staying was guilt pain and a love for humanity that I wanted to see her change.

One of my good friends survived alcoholism has 5 years sober and just got a graduate degree from USC. I think he is higher functioning borderline just due to his reaction when i talk to him about it... .  he is a sex addict and extremely good look guy and im sure has broken many hearts... .  but the only girls he would call his girlfriend were actually very attractive and sweet young ladies... .  so maybe a BPD hanging for us that long is really a compliment? Haha im sick. Look at how low i am right now... .  

Anyways my friend used to humiliate me to some extent... .  he was a frat boy and got in to trouble with the law vandalizing cars in his fraternities... .  etc. He has a very strict routine... .  seems eternally empty, but is very productive society member... .  volunteering at hospitals etc. He has an LDR that seems to work great for him. He sees her every few weeks because she travels... .  shes like a [9/10] looks and seems to be well balanced (he talks about numbers and rating women, etc... .  ) Who knows if hes being faithful... .  

I bet hes ran in to some women like my girl... .  and tossed her aside with the rest of them. He likes the good girls... and he likes them to long for him indefinitely. Its very sick and twisted. His dad's and advisor to my company, .

I helped this guy get his life together and get in to USC grad school (wrote his essays) and he is eternally thankful and has been supportive of me through this breakup. How ironic is that? Haha. Im sure my T will tell me to not talk to this friend anymore... .  but I have cut off a lot of my friends already due to the isolation and subtle manipulation, and because when you get older you dont want to spend a lot of time partying or socializing... .  its better when its just easier... .  ive never been a social meetup networking kind of guy.Lol.

Anyways I see patterns in my friendships and relationships and I remember that were women in my life that I thought were too good for me, and those were the type of women I should pursue. Just because my family and past girlfriends and past friendships were crappy doesnt mean im not the guy that could still get the goody too shoes in french class in trouble for flirting

Im going to try and remember when I was better with women that wernt seriously confused and on the road to nowhere... .  

[Wooddragon]

I dont mean to offend anyone... .  part of venting on here is to get real feedback. I am aware that I am acting out of sorts right now... .  its only been 3 weeks. The abused become abusers... .  I am here because this is a safe place to express my feelings and get feedback from women who dont have BPD.

the problem with that may be that what many the women on here do have is a recent history of extreme trauma in relationships with men who wanted to make themselves feel better one way or another at their expense.  i doubt many of us are therapists - we are trying to recover and seek answers just like you.  so it may be safe for you to vent that way, but it can sound really bad - and even threatening - to a woman who has just endured years of "venting" from another man who lacked empathy, and who has come on here trying to sort through their own issues and get past it! 

[stoic83]

I dont mean to offend anyone... .  part of venting on here is to get real feedback. I am aware that I am acting out of sorts right now... .  its only been 3 weeks. The abused become abusers... .  I am here because this is a safe place to express my feelings and get feedback from women who dont have BPD.

the problem with that may be that what many the women on here do have is a recent history of extreme trauma in relationships with men who wanted to make themselves feel better one way or another at their expense.  i doubt many of us are therapists - we are trying to recover and seek answers just like you.  so it may be safe for you to vent that way, but it can sound really bad - and even threatening - to a woman who has just endured years of "venting" from another man who lacked empathy, and who has come on here trying to sort through their own issues and get past it! 

I read an article online that said regular people who are present and self-aware can help a person through ptsd-type symptoms just by being present. The sad thing is that women who are victims of abuse end up being abusive many times. This is what I have just come out of... .  trying to be empathetic and understanding to a victim of abuse(my BPDex). Being invalidated for having emotions... .  whether it be anger, fear, love, depression... .  etc. is exactly why I am here. Besides if someone doesn't want to be like me and they read this... .  then maybe they will get out of their toxic rs now? I don't know what to say... .  I have internalized my exBPDs anger. Her mom and partner were man-haters. These women encouraged their daughter to be a predator... .  I think that women are much more likely to empathize with women who are angry with men after an abusive relationship, than a man like me... .  is that sexist as well?

I have dealt with a lot of abusive and manipulative women in my life, and right now Im a bit jaded... .  can you fault me for that? Ive always looked up to and had a lot of respect and empathy for women, especially those who have been abused... .  ive put them on a pedestal and make them feel worthy and then they hate me for that, because they crave abuse... .  well obviously everyone here has accepted abuse to some extent, nobody wants to be abused... .  but people who accept abuse are sick too. I am sick... .  that is why I am here. Not to say that I am better than anyone else, or put anyone down at my expense... .  I truly believe the world would be a better place if we always put truth first.

Truth before harmony creates "true harmony" otherwise it is just "harmony".

I have a woman T who will set me straight... .  but criticizing me for being unempathetic when I am clearly suffering from situational depression and anxiety otherwise i would not be here, doesnt seem very empathetic to me... .  clearly there are people here who are not is in bad of shape as I am... .  that is why I am here.

There are plenty of times when my exBPD lacked empathy and i remained empathetic to her. Im sorry Im not dealing with my anger in healthy enough ways... .  im not trying to hurt anybody's feelings. I appreciate you telling me that I am seemingly unempathetic... .  it would make sense that I am not empathetic right now, because I cant even take care of myself... .  sound familiar?

Maybe it is healthier for me to express anger on a board for leaving toxic relationships with a pwBPD than to internalize it and turn it inward, like her... .  like you? Where do you express your anger? In private? I want some validation for my anger... .  that is why I am here.

I am here because living with someone who is mentally ill and I am an empath and an hsp and I sucked in all the toxicity and am therefore a bit toxic right now. Boards provide boundaries... .  i am quick to apologize. i am looking for honest feedback. One woman already wrote me and told me how much it meant to her... .  that she didn't feel like a bad person for being angry and bitter.

Trust me ive been in everyone's shoes before where I would supress my anger after the breakup and act like a martyr and a perfect caregiver... .  etc etc. I see that people are closer to exiting the victim triangle when they move in to the role of persecutor. I am expressing myself in a safe place. I dont want to trigger anybody here. I have always loved animals, men, women... .  nature.

If you aren't at a stage where you are dealing with your anger and are still in the victim mentality... .  I am sorry. I have been a victim for too long. I will find my balance and move to the center of the victim triangle.

Its like any form of oppression... .  "anger against oppression is the expression of political love" martin luthur king

I am angry at the oppressors (mom, sister, ex girlfriend) and society for oppressing them. Sad to say but women who are abused end up being heavily guarded and unempathetic to men and oftentimes emotionally abusive... .  

So rather than accuse me of lack of empathy, if you were truly empathetic... .  could you not empathize with my pain. Do you want a laundry list of justification or can you just assume that men and women are essentially the same, that I was raised by a BPD mom... .  and now I am like a battered woman who goes to al-anon meetings?

The women there gave me hugs as I cried and expressed my anger towards my BPDex's oppressors, and towards her for oppressing me... .  

I think the idea that if a man is angry is scary and abusive is why I am in this predicament in the first place. If i felt comfortable expressing my anger, love, pain, fears,... .  etc. then I would not be in this situation with an extreme overload of emotions... .  sound familiar?

I used to villainize men like my mom encouraged me too. That is why I am in this spot... .  because I thought I was bad and wanted to be "the nice guy" "the people pleaser"... .  not the mean guy, the user, the abuser... .  the one that women like my BPDex whine about but go back for more. Hey im just like you, im just not here to sugarcoat it anymore.

I whined about my BPDex and went back several times. She was abusive and I am a cowardly victim who uses her mental illness as justification to avoid my own life problems... .  because like you, I have it all figured out. And I am superior to this weakened being... .  for what reason... .  

I havent acted condescending towards anybody on this board.

There is something wrong with me that I stayed in a relationship with her. Some part of me was asking to get screwed over. I am angry right now... .  its part of the greiving process. What I love is when a woman can see that men and women are brothers and sisters of the earth in the end, and that I am angry with the system for encouraging and fostering dependence in women when I think women can be strong, free and beautiful... .  so there ya go. Its my idealism that got me in to this situation, but its reality that is going to get me out.

[stoic83]

It's hard for me to read mysogonistic blame in a space meant to offer support.  I don't like it.

On an intellectual level, I also don't like the misquoting of feminist theory. You should read it before incorrectly critiquing it. 

Regardless, I'm sorry you're going through this hurt.  I understand its making you afraid of women.  I hope you get to a place where your heart can remember that every woman is not your ex.  Sending you healing.

You know I once was in a women's studies course and the teacher was a complete narcissist. She talked about how she didn't watch tv and just how cool and smart and esoteric she was... .  Then one day she said "hey guys i have a really fun activity for you... .  ! You get to watch a soap opera, crime drama, or talk show for 4 hours and write an essay on it. This is a fun assignment!"

I called her out in front of the whole class. I was so angry about how these women (and I) were being infantilized and condescended by this narcissist. Its like she wanted to keep them to be dumb societal sheep... .  Instead of encouraging them to ascribe to her superior code of living, she encouraged and patronized these women to watch more crap tv.

She made an example out of me. None of the women in the class appreciated that I was standing up for them. How dare you stand up for me! I dont need your help!... .  This reminds me of my ex w BPD.

"How dare you love me! Im crap! Im stupid! Theres something wrong with YOU! "

"How dare you stand up for me. Youre a man. Your bad... .  youre trying to make me weak by fostering dependence... .  You are just using me... .  you dont love me (she didnt love me, she was just using me)"

My intention in the class was to free my sisters of the earth from oppression. My intention w/ the BPD was to free her from her oppression... .  

In the end I think I am shaping up to be more like the "women's studies" professor if I'm not careful. My spirtual principles are largely esoteric... .  in fact the people I listen to or read even say that "90% of society will not understand". This man is a buddhist. Is he a narcissist because he is a realist?

Some of my heroes are : MLK, Abraham Lincoln, Einstein, Kant, Gandhi... .  

Anyways, you don't see any women on that list... .  

I think maybe the "feminist" is the woman who is in the "persecutor" role of the victim triangle.

I am an "equalist"... .  I think I triggered you wood dragon. No pain/ no gain. I like you.

Let's look in the mirror... .  

[stoic83]

Regardless, I'm sorry you're going through this hurt.  I understand its making you afraid of women.  I hope you get to a place where your heart can remember that every woman is not your ex.  Sending you healing.

thanks elsee. I am splitting a bit right now. You are totally grey... I appreciate your feeback. Its helping me see the grey in my ex.

My goal is healing as quickly as possible... .  I cant tell you how many times I sent my exwBPD healing energy. Thanks for rising above your anger and being fair to me.

I didn't know there was a "feminist theory"... .  I thought there were many theories. My theory is now that feminists are persecutors in the victim triangle... .  which is the worst spot to be in.

I am not a traditionalist... .  i think man and woman are equals 50/50.

I think it's strange there are so many equalists in here that accepted 10/90 in their relationships... .  

[Want2know]

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