What am I doing here?

[turtle]

The last few days have been very interesting for me. I've been sort of entrenched in the drama of someone else's situation. This has made me recognize some good and bad things in my own journey.

We'll start with the good: 

I KNOW... .  beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am finally beyond all that happened to me in dealing with the uBPDx person in my world. It is abundantly clear to me that that chaos, fear, drama, and heartbreak is over for me. Even though he continues to randomly contact me, this is a closed chapter in my world, in my heart, and in my mind.  I've known this for a long time, but I'm grateful for the "in my face" reminder. So, so grateful. 

This is good.

What I'm not sure of is my own reaction to the plight of others. I've gone on with my life over the years and I've had some crap to deal with.  Don't we all?  Some of it has been pretty heavy and I believe my response to it has been what it needed to be.  Even so, I wonder... .  Have I just become a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" kind of person?  I have realized over the last few days that I now have NO tolerance for bad behavior.  NONE.  Yet, isn't this the best way to be?  Or... .  is it hard hearted?

When I see others struggling so much with the idea of "love," I find myself irritated.  I don't believe "love" should be so hard, so painful, so hard to figure out, so confusing, unsettling, so damn stressful, etc... .  yet there are people in my world going through this very experience.  And they are TORN as to what to do?

The last few days have shown me that I'm very quick to say... .  GET OUT and GET OUT NOW!  Is that fair?  Is it right?  Is it any of my business?  They've asked my opinion, but is it really ANY of my business?  I want to help, but is my opinion about anything really helpful? I'm not so sure.  We all have to travel our own path... .  deciding what is right for us and is there really any value or input that an outsider can bring to the table that's of much value?  We're the ones living in our own skin.  We're the ones that have to look at ourselves in the mirror everyday, right?  So who cares what someone else thinks about the paths we choose?

Bleh... .  I'm not even sure what I'm saying... .  I just wonder if I should be here anymore, commenting on the lives of others when I don't really know ANYTHING about who they are and what's really going on with them.  And I'm wondering if there's ANY value in speaking my mind (even when asked to) by people that I DO know.



turtle

[doubleAries]

turtle,

I think most of us feel like this from time to time. I also think it comes down to this BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence

I get myself into plenty of dysfunction worrying that I'm "selfish" (something my mom made sure to tell me I was at least 5 times a day--even if I didn't consciously believe her, that song is stuck in my head after hearing it so often).

I frequently wonder if I have any value. That's part of the help/fix/rescue approach to relationships... .  if I help/fix/rescue then perhaps this other person will believe I have value.

I think it is fairly common to go clear to the other extreme as well. How else can we find the middle ground?

[MaybeSo]

"entrenched in the drama of somebody elses situation"

This resonates with me. For me, this is old FOO stuff, and I am trying to shift from being entrenched or attached to just observing or being there if I can, opting out if I can't. Exploring the difference of just being there, observing, supporting, empathizing with the process, but unattached with the outcome.  It's something I have to watch in myself all the time.

I too wonder if I'm ready to stop being on the board. I guess because of similar concerns, and also, I'm just tired. Tired of BPD and NONS and ... .    just tired.

When I see struggles with love relationships, now I see it as a sign of some hard work needing to be done,  but  on our own selves, and that the r/s itself has little really to do with it... .  the r/s if crazy or hard is a symptom of something we need to love more about ourselves. It's a sign of needing a better r/s with self. Cause, ya, loving, coupling, pairing-up... .  shouldn't  be THAT hard and that painful.  But, the crazy r/s often provides the catalyst for the individual work... .  or not. It's a process, and it unfurls in it's own time for each individual.  I find myself feeing imPatient and weary sometimes with those at the very beginning of what will be a long journey... .  like, I want them to see it all NOW! Or wanting to yell STOP! At least stop the worst part of the crazy stuff!  Take care of yourself! Other broken people can't take care of you!

But it doesn't work that way. It's a process.

I feel tired and ready for a break. I can barely stand to read the leaving board right now.

However, Turtle, I have to say,  you have certainly provided great value and assistance to me over the years, and for that I will always be grateful!

[Blazing Star]

Hi Turtle,

I have just been reading "I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better", and it comes to mind now, it says something similar to what you express, about letting others come up with their own advice, about listening (validating), resisting the urge to 'fix/solve' etc, and instead turning it back to them "What do you think might work?". Basically as I understand it the idea is to keep in mind "I don't have to make this better, the problem belongs to them, not to me"

Also they speak of prefacing what you say, when giving advice with something like "I have been thinking about your situation and would like to share some ideas that may or may not be helpful... .  when I was in your situation... .  " or "Here is something you might try, it may not work, but... .  "

I think its great that you recognise your low tolerance for bad behaviour and desire to tell others to treat themselves with respect and not tolerate it either. I think sometimes people need to hear this as, from personal experience, we can often normalise bad behaviour and not realise it 'shouldn't' be this way.

In answer to your value question, I totally believe there is value in what you say, and even more so for the fact that you own the 'hey this is just my opinion, I don't know your situation'.

It sounds like you are questioning the value around your thoughts and experiences.

What lies beneath this questioning do you think? Where is it stemming from?

Love Blazing Star

[ambi]

"entrenched in the drama of somebody elses situation"

This resonates with me. For me, this is old FOO stuff, and I am trying to shift from being entrenched or attached to just observing or being there if I can, opting out if I can't. Exploring the difference of just being there, observing, supporting, empathizing with the process, but unattached with the outcome.  It's something I have to watch in myself all the time.

Sometimes, having been there/done that, you can see the path that someone else is on and know it's going to have its share of heartbreak and pain for them.  They're posting on a message board asking for opinions.  It's fair game to offer an opinion.  What they do with that information is entirely up to them.   

I think what you said is a key - observing, supporting, but unattached to the outcome.  Easier said than done for those of us raised to have a hyper-sense of responsibility for the world. 

[turtle]

Exploring the difference of just being there, observing, supporting, empathizing with the process, but unattached with the outcome.  

This really thunked me on the head.  This is where I think I've gotten hung up and thank you for this observation, Maybeso!

If, after all the listening, affirming, supporting, etc., a person does exactly what they told me they wouldn't do (i.e., return to a relationship that is toxic and doomed)... .  I get irritated.  So yes... .  I am attached to the outcome.  However, I then start reminding myself that I, too, did that - more than once - back when I was in the thick of things. Makes me see how irritated my friends must have been with me.

I too wonder if I'm ready to stop being on the board. I guess because of similar concerns, and also, I'm just tired. Tired of BPD and NONS and ... .   just tired.

.  Me too, Maybeso.  And as you know, I've taken many breaks from here... .  so what brings me back each time?  Usually, it's some life event that I'm struggling with, or this last time, it was a realization in my own personal journey that I wanted to share with the only people who would really get it!  And then... .  sometimes I come back because I always want to provide any "help" I can to this magnificent place that has helped me so, so much.  Now, I find myself questioning if it's really "help" at all.

When I see struggles with love relationships, now I see it as a sign of some hard work needing to be done,  but  on our own selves, and that the r/s itself has little really to do with it... .  the r/s if crazy or hard is a symptom of something we need to love more about ourselves. It's a sign of needing a better r/s with self. Cause, ya, loving, coupling, pairing-up... .  shouldn't  be THAT hard and that painful.  But, the crazy r/s often provides the catalyst for the individual work... .  or not. It's a process, and it unfurls in it's own time for each individual.  I find myself feeing imPatient and weary sometimes with those at the very beginning of what will be a long journey... .  like, I want them to see it all NOW! Or wanting to yell STOP! At least stop the worst part of the crazy stuff!  Take care of yourself! Other broken people can't take care of you!

I feel exactly this same way Maybeso.  It's so hard to get someone to see that they won't get what they need from someone who is broken.  AND... .  we aren't of much use to others when WE are broken.  And fixing "broken" takes time, tons of patience and dedication to ourselves -- no one else.  Then and only then, can a healthy relationship be born.

I feel tired and ready for a break. I can barely stand to read the leaving board right now.

I hear ya!  I haven't read anything but the leaving board for many years now.  The other boards are just full of too much pain, especially when there are children. That breaks my heart. I got to the place many years ago where I felt that anything I could say on those boards was just trite and cliche, so why take up that space?  Now I'm wondering if anything I say on the leaving board isn't just the same thing -- trite and cliche.  That's certainly not how I mean it, but to a reader who is in such distress?  It probably sounds trite and cliche.

However, Turtle, I have to say,  you have certainly provided great value and assistance to me over the years, and for that I will always be grateful!

Well, thank you, Maybeso.  And that goes both ways. I think you are one of the most insightful people here and I always like reading your posts!

[turtle]

I think its great that you recognise your low tolerance for bad behaviour and desire to tell others to treat themselves with respect and not tolerate it either. I think sometimes people need to hear this as, from personal experience, we can often normalise bad behaviour and not realise it 'shouldn't' be this way.

I definitely agree with this.  Being in a horrible situation often DOES normalize bad behavior and sometimes it takes an outsider to say "hey, that's not cool."

In my own life, I've just come to the point where I don't want anything to do with people who behave badly.  I see so much horrible behavior from the public (because of my job,) and I refuse to allow it into my personal world.  My doormat days are long over and I'm fine with that.

It sounds like you are questioning the value around your thoughts and experiences.

What lies beneath this questioning do you think? Where is it stemming from?

I don't think I'm questioning the value around my thoughts and experiences.  I have made peace with all that happened to me so very long ago and I know that my thoughts and experiences have great transforming value to ME (as they should .)  All of that has shaped me into the person I am today.  Some of that is good - VERY good.  Some of it still needs work... .  and so the journey continues and will continue until I die!  I believe that's how it SHOULD work for everyone.

What I'm questioning is what real value is there in sharing my thoughts and experiences with anyone else? Especially here - in a forum where I/we don't ever really know the whole story.  We shape thoughts and opinions around things when we don't really know what's actually happening.  Even if a poster is being 100% truthful... .  they are being truthful in THEIR eyes.  If we knew the whole story, would our responding posts be different?  And really... .  by the time someone comes here... .  the relationship is soo complicated and convoluted on BOTH sides, the poster doesn't even know what's real and what isn't.  Been there, done that too!

[FindingMe2011]

"entrenched in the drama of somebody elses situation"

This resonates with me. For me, this is old FOO stuff, and I am trying to shift from being entrenched or attached to just observing or being there if I can, opting out if I can't. Exploring the difference of just being there, observing, supporting, empathizing with the process, but unattached with the outcome.  It's something I have to watch in myself all the time.

Sometimes, having been there/done that, you can see the path that someone else is on and know it's going to have its share of heartbreak and pain for them.  They're posting on a message board asking for opinions.  It's fair game to offer an opinion.  What they do with that information is entirely up to them.   

I think what you said is a key - observing, supporting, but unattached to the outcome.  Easier said than done for those of us raised to have a hyper-sense of responsibility for the world. 

   These words bring me back, to when I first came across this site. I was going to be, over all of this, in 100 posts. ... .  I replied to a post, just the other day. I observed that he was anxious to reach the finish line. I then informed him, there was no finish line. I then somewhat informed myself, that i had done this to myself, in not so obvious ways, many times. Put myself up to an impossible task, with the only possible outcome, failure... .  Your still looking for something, just make sure its achievable. If you need to take a break, walk away or whatever, then do so.

Turtle, I would think that this has something to do with, why you are here.

  However, Turtle, I have to say,  you have certainly provided great value and assistance to me over the years, and for that I will always be grateful!    

 I can still learn some things, from my own words, while understanding others... .  

[MaybeSo]

Turtle,

What amazes me the most, and has for years now, is how eerily similar some of the posts on the forum echoed my ex's thoughts/beliefs. And,  I started to see it in my own posts  that for example, many of the men on here sound like my ex, and they are responding to their partners like my ex did to me. When they described their partners, they complained and seemed utterly flabbergasted about their gf, when I could totally relate to the gf he was talking about. Not violence or self harming stuff, more regular r/s issues that were getting blown up. That was freaky! Eye opening.  Then as time went on, I was able to see where in my early postings I really was being immature and operating from my own poor beliefs and unhelpful thoughts. And I could see how both partners on the boards were both really fueling the fire. Both were not well. The one w/out the PD has the best chance of changing for the better. But lots if folks on the board don't change... .  and some come back 2-3 more times with a new crazy gf or bf! So, did I in some cases help a not very well person bully or treat a bf or gf poorly in encouraging NC or highlighting how they are clearly being victimized? Yikes...  You are so right! We never know the whole story! Just one upset persons side of it! This started to concern me, too.

What i decided for me, over time... .  My take on this is; i can always promote self responsibility, caring for self, and learning to take care of yourself emotionally, physically, financially.  I decided no matter what the story (I always just have one side) I can still encourage a person to learn to take responsibility for self, and that was ok for anyone in any role; the persecutor, the rescuer, or the victim... ,each of us play one of those roles at times, each of them needs to learn

self care and self responsibility. I won't ever be sending anyone the wrong message in

promoting them to learn self care.

[P.F.Change]

[Wrote this an hour ago but it didn't go through... .  Rather than lose it I will go ahead and post and then go back to read the last 3 replies. Hope it's not become moot.]

I think I might understand what you mean, turtle. And I think it comes down to a couple of things, as others have already said: boundaries and control.

1) Boundaries. Your boundaries are there for you, and they aren't right or wrong. Other people may have different boundaries than you do, and that is ok. I know my own boundaries are pretty darn rigid right now. I realize this limits my social life, but for right now they are where I need them to be. As I work on other issues, I may be able to move them a tad bit further out. But the point is, it is about what you need and what feels safe and fits with what you value.

2)Control. I find that I expect others to love my advice. If they ask for it but don't take it, sometimes that hurts and sometimes it makes me feel like I just wasted my time. But I can't control what other people do. I've had time to learn and grow that they haven't had... .  and there are probably lots of things I do that other people further along than I am  can only smack their heads at. I think life gives us lots of opportunities to learn, but we can only change when we're ready to listen. We can't make other people ready. This is hardest for me when I am trying to control *my own pain* through someone else's situation. I want them to do what *I* need (or what I needed my parents to do when I was a child), which may not be what they are ready for at a given point in time. It is essentially projection I think.The one thing we all need is the freedom and encouragement to make our own choices. I have to keep in mind the adage, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

I really like Blazing Star's suggestions for ways to put the power back in the other person's corner. Those have been helpful for me. Also the idea of learning to be "unattached to the outcome." Quite a challenge!

Wishing you peace,

PF

[turtle]

Turtle,

What amazes me the most, and has for years now, is how eerily similar the posts/thinking process/beliefs are to my ex's ... .  to  someone who I felt was disordered. I started to see it in my own posts firsts; that for example, many of the men on here sound like my ex, and they are responding to their partners like my ex did to me. When they described their partners, they complained and seemed utterly flabbergasted about their gf, when I could totally relate to the gf he was talking about. Not violence or self harming stuff, more regular r/s issues that were getting blown up. That was freaky! Then as time went on, I was able to see where in my early postings I really was being immature and operating from poor beliefs and unhelpful thoughts. And I could see how both partners on the boards were both really fueling the fire. Both were not well. The one w/out the PD has the best chance of changing for the better. But lots if folks on the board don't change... .  and some come back 2-3 more times with a new crazy gf or bf! So, did I in some cases help a not very well person bully or treat a bf or gf poorly in encouraging NC or highlighting how they are clearly being victimized? Yikes...   You are so right! We never know the whole story! Just one upset persons side of it! This started to concern me, too.

What i decided for me, over time... .  My take on this is; i can always promote self responsibility, caring for self, and learning to take care of yourself emotionally, physically, financially.  I decided no matter what the story (I always just have one side) I can still encourage a person to learn to take responsibility for self, and that was ok for anyone in any role; the persecutor, the rescuer, or the victim... ,each of us play one of those roles at times, each of them needs to learn

self care and self responsibility. I won't ever be sending anyone the wrong message in

promoting them to learn self care.

I'm glad you've found a way to participate that is good for everyone!  The bolded parts are things that I think of quite often, but they've really come to concern me over the last few days. And that's what I'm chewing on!

[turtle]

I find that I expect others to love my advice. If they ask for it but don't take it, sometimes that hurts and sometimes it makes me feel like I just wasted my time. But I can't control what other people do. I've had time to learn and grow that they haven't had... .  and there are probably lots of things I do that other people further along than I am  can only smack their heads at. I think life gives us lots of opportunities to learn, but we can only change when we're ready to listen. We can't make other people ready. I have to keep in mind the adage, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

Thanks for this P.F.  This makes perfect sense and I know this... .  in my HEAD!  In fact, I am a personification of this very dynamic.  Aren't we all?

Right now, I'm just wondering if there's even any value in leading the horse to water!  .

[P.F.Change]

Right now, I'm just wondering if there's even any value in leading the horse to water!  .

For me there is... .  if the horse knows he's thirsty and has asked if I know where to find a clean river. I just have to remember that even if he doesn't like my water, nothing about who I am has changed. His actions don't determine my value. I also need to decide ahead of time if it's worth it to me to spend my time and energy when there is a risk he will reject it. If I am doing it because I have a need to make myself feel appreciated and helpful, then I may need to reconsider.

I think in some cases it can be good to stay out of it. But if someone is asking my opinion, and if I feel comfortable, sharing my experience can still be beneficial even if they don't want to do things the same way. Sometimes that kind of thing can stick in someone's head and they will remember late when they are ready to let it sink in. At least I have mulled over things that were said to me... .  

Still, it's worth it to decide how much you feel is good to share and when. I think there is wisdom in that. Sometimes the only thing to do is ask leading questions and refer them to a good vet.

PF

[seeking balance]

so, Turtle - I was writing out my feelings yesterday on this very subject.

I am sick of people trampling boundaries, making messes and running around like they are not responsible for some of it... .  grrrrr

On the boards, people ask for our opinion, so easy to give.  I don't know them, I am not tied to the outcome - great lessons in detachment.

In life, if people ask my opinion, I tend to give it in a balanced approach based on what I have learned over the years... .  some of it seems simple and I find myself frustrated when people simply don't take the rational approach.  Lately, I wonder if the rational approach is best - like you say it's not my life, it's not my journey - why should I be tied to the outcome.  Stick to my boundaries and move on, right?

I don't know if I am making any sense - but I feel you on the no tolerance for bad behavior... .  if I keep distancing myself from everyone who is - ummm... .  human (not disordered) - it is going to be a lonely life.

I also find that I put that same pressure on me - I know the right thing to do, but sometimes I don't want too... .  sometimes, I just want to do the not logical thing that feels good in the moment even if it isn't responsible.

Again, I know logically there is no "right/wrong" - only the journey.  But with all the knowledge and watching of behavior patterns, there is a less extreme approach - but is that experiencing life?

I hope this doesn't seem like I am hijacking - simply, I am in a very similar place... .  

[myself]

Turtle, I see where you're coming from and would not be surprised if you did just fade away from here, having put in the work on yourself to be living a better life now. Very understandable. In some ways, I hope you do it. For You.

We've spoken about how this place can be a trigger, and you said maybe I could take a break to step back from that. I haven't been here as much lately. Not because 'Turtle said so' but because it was reasonable advice. Which I asked for and you offered. Speaking as someone who posts here, so much of what you say to people really seems to be taken to heart. People look up to you knowing you've been there, gone through it, and came out the other side much better than before. That you share what you have learned is much appreciated. I feel to comment on questions people pose, add in my version of a similar story in support, usually as a mix of being there for someone else and while working through this stuff for myself. I'm far less detached than you are, obviously. But speaking as someone who has learned alot from what you've added here, I've also noticed the times when you haven't been around. I will say: It's better when you're here.

I've been struggling recently with wanting to add my two cents, too, writing comments that I erased, knowing what to say but thinking 'Who am I to say anything to anyone else, still tossing all this stuff back and forth in my own mind so much?' As you mention, not even knowing the other person's whole story. I really respect the long-time members here who continue on with this, knowing the pains and memories this stuff must bring back. I wish this illness didn't exist and none of us had ever had to go through this. (Alright, the healing and growth make it worthwhile, but... .  ) This site helps people every day but in some ways I wish it didn't even need to be here. That it is, I do accept. Thanking you again for being part of it.

[turtle]

I hope this doesn't seem like I am hijacking - simply, I am in a very similar place... .  

Not a hijack at all!  I'm glad you chimed in!

Turtle, I see where you're coming from and would not be surprised if you did just fade away from here, having put in the work on yourself to be living a better life now. Very understandable. In some ways, I hope you do it. For You.

Well, maybe it's just time.  After each break I take, the time that I spend when I come back gets shorter and shorter! .

We've spoken about how this place can be a trigger, and you said maybe I could take a break to step back from that. I haven't been here as much lately. Not because 'Turtle said so' but because it was reasonable advice. Which I asked for and you offered.  Speaking as someone who posts here, so much of what you say to people really seems to be taken to heart. People look up to you knowing you've been there, gone through it, and came out the other side much better than before. That you share what you have learned is much appreciated. I feel to comment on questions people pose, add in my version of a similar story in support, usually as a mix of being there for someone else and while working through this stuff for myself. I'm far less detached than you are, obviously. But speaking as someone who has learned alot from what you've added here, I've also noticed the times when you haven't been around. I will say: It's better when you're here.

The bolded part is exactly how this works and it works well for so many!  

Myself... .    Thank you so much for everything you said here. You are a very kind soul. It kind of made me teary!  

And also, myself, the growth I have seen in you is undeniable.  I know it's just me peeking into your life through a few posts here and there, but you are on your way myself.  And that makes me smile.

[myself]

Thanks Turtle.    A few tears here, too.

I hope you stay. I hope you don't. It seems you'll do what's best for You, and I'm cool with that.

The story you often reference, how the race can be won by being steady and consistent, has resonated within my whole life, and now even more so. Always liked that the turtle didn't make a big production of anything. It just Is What It Is.

'Personal Inventory' is like the undecided/leaving board for being on the site itself, at times. 

A plateau we reach where we're better able to see where next to go.

Best to you as you continue changing for the better.

[maria1]

Hi Turtle

Something I have always found interesting about this site is that it is probably made up largely of people who have codependency and/or other personality issues. People on here are in different places on the continuum of 'recovery' and re-ordering of ourselves in terms of our issues.

I think the reason this site is so successful is because we are all codependent to a greater or lesser extent- we love to help/ fix.  There are positive aspects to our personality types and this site allows us to use our 'helpful' traits in a positive way. But if we are learning to examine our codependency and learning to detach more and more from other people's problems then what you describe is perfectly natural isn't it?

If people don't want to listen why are we frustrated? Why does it matter to us that they don't? It's interesting what triggers us as individuals. If people don't hear what I say on here I might try saying it a different way but I ultimately move on. That's got easier over time. However what I find the saddest is when people just drop off and I know they've gone off to recycle. That's just too sad for me. Their problem though not mine and I need to keep working on my codependency.

You really are helping people on here Turtle. If you pop up in a thread we know you've got sage advice to give. People do listen. If you aren't helping yourself through being here then you need to work out why you're still here because everything we do should be good for us. x

[turtle]

However what I find the saddest is when people just drop off and I know they've gone off to recycle. That's just too sad for me. Their problem though not mine and I need to keep working on my codependency.

Yeah... .  this one gets to me too.  And... .  when/if they return, they are more beaten down than they were before.  We all have to get that lesson at some point, don't we?  If we don't deal with it now... .  we'll certainly deal with it later.

And you are right it IS their problem. 

When that happens and I suddenly think... .  "hey, I haven't seen so and so here for awhile."  I think, "oh well... .  they are not ready for permanent change.  And when they are... .  there will still be other people posting here when they return."  And of course, there are those who never return. They choose to go back to dysfunction and remain in that forever.  That's the saddest of all to me, but we'll never really know how many people have done this because the majority of them just disappear. And it makes sense to me that they would! 

You really are helping people on here Turtle. If you pop up in a thread we know you've got sage advice to give. People do listen. If you aren't helping yourself through being here then you need to work out why you're still here because everything we do should be good for us. x

Thank you, Maria1.  And you are so right about this!

[turtle]

I don't know if I am making any sense - but I feel you on the no tolerance for bad behavior... .  if I keep distancing myself from everyone who is - ummm... .  human (not disordered) - it is going to be a lonely life.I also find that I put that same pressure on me - I know the right thing to do, but sometimes I don't want too... .  sometimes, I just want to do the not logical thing that feels good in the moment even if it isn't responsible.

I went through a real pruning of friends a few years ago.  I mean a REAL pruning.  It wasn't because I didn't like them anymore or anything like that.  It was because there were just certain people in my circle of trust who didn't belong there.  And for me to keep them in that place after all I'd learned, would be a disservice to myself -- and to them too.  So... .  the pruning happened.  It was difficult at first and I really felt the absence of one person in particular.  However, over time, new friends... .  healthier friends... .  came into my world.

It goes back to healthy attracts healthy.  That's true in friendships as well as romantantic relationships.

Eleven years ago, I had healthy friends, but I don't think that I really appreciated their health, or even their value, until I became healthier.  

I also had some friends who were toxic, soo toxic and of course, THOSE were the people I was leaning on.    However, they looked like they were ambassadors of mental health compared to the insanity I was dealing with at that time!  As time marched on and I became "better," the toxicity of these relationships became harder to ignore and I knew I was going to have to do something about it.  It was difficult, but I did it.

Fast forward eleven years.

I have a wonderful group of friends now.  Some are new and some have been with me for many years!  The people that are now in my circle of trust are definitely human and I am very human - .  The difference is that when someone misbehaves in a human (not disordered) way (which is bound to happen with us humans ,) there is acknowledgement of the behavior, a sincere apology offered, a sincere acceptance granted, and those involved learn from the process. And of course all of this is much easier because the offenses that are made are just human slip ups.  There's nothing shocking, flagrant, intentional, or punishable by law!    It's really quite amazing and I'm grateful for it.  I've always enjoyed the friends in my life, but this is a level of friendship that I didn't know existed.  And THIS was born out of my own personal growth.

And... .  just a little side note... .  the laughter is fantastic.  We laugh so hard! I mean laugh til you cry. Big belly laughs that render you unable to even make a sound. I had a little dinner party last night and the entire evening was filled with nothing but laughter and silliness. Times like this make me wake up with a smile on my face.  It's easier this morning to go to work where I will SURELY face a day FULL of bad behavior.

So... .  SB... .  it may seem like life might become lonely, but it won't.  It takes time to cultivate these healthy relationships.  And while you're doing that, the "humans" seem pretty sparse. .  They WILL show up!

turtle

[yeeter]

What I'm questioning is what real value is there in sharing my thoughts and experiences with anyone else? Especially here - in a forum where I/we don't ever really know the whole story.  We shape thoughts and opinions around things when we don't really know what's actually happening.  Even if a poster is being 100% truthful... .  they are being truthful in THEIR eyes.  If we knew the whole story, would our responding posts be different?  And really... .  by the time someone comes here... .  the relationship is soo complicated and convoluted on BOTH sides, the poster doesn't even know what's real and what isn't.  Been there, done that too!

I thought about this some.  Especially when I first started posting here.  It's pretty obvious that some people here are knee deep in their own stuff.  :)enial.  Presenting things a certain way.  Etc.  And it's also possible my advice could be off the mark and make things worse for someone.

But net net, I decided to let the other party worry about that for themselves.  Ask my advice and opinion... .  Ok, I will give it.  Set it up with false information or distortion... .  Ok, that's up to you.  If you were genuinely ready to work on yourself you would be genuine in your posts, and you would reap the rewards of the advice given.  If not... .  That's your own problem, no mine.

I 'care'.  I hope everyone here improves and becomes happy with their life.  Some will, some won't, and I have plenty of my own crap to work on.  

Then there are others here to provide balance and perspective, so I take comfort that if I say something way off base I will be steered back on track.

And then the reality is turtle, that you HAVE offered some great advice and insight that HAS helped others.  By sharing our own experiences it makes a difference for others.  Far more good than harm has been done by your participation, and since 'perfect' is never possible then appreciate the impact you have had.

At the same time i tend to cycle on and off the site.  Based on my own needs (selfish... .  Yes).   I Definitely understand that sometimes you just need to step back and take a break from it all.  Some of us here can get completely obsessed with it all, and a little distance can be a healthy thing, and allow us to go off and LIVE life for a bit.

[waitaminute]

To some extent, the board is a good reminder to me that it was the right thing to do to leave. But I have found myself replacing the drama of my own BPD rs with the drama of someone elses. I will help where I can but I must pull myself back from this board and move on with a life where BPD is rarely thought of.